ATAR Notes: Forum
Archived Discussion => 2010 => End-of-year exams => Exam Discussion => Victoria => Legal Studies => Topic started by: babygurl on November 10, 2010, 07:25:54 pm
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What do most people think?
I wrote the Magistrate's Court and that the sentece will be passed down via a Magistrate. However, there seems to be considerable debate on the answer :|
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I think its a VCAA stuff up, and they have to accept both or else they will have alot of angry legal kids.
I've look at some cases and asked my brother and he said it could be both, but the court is determined by the severity of the offence.
But he also said traditionally it would be county, therefore VCAA may pull an 'most obvious court' ....
I think I might write a letter to VCAA and attach a few examples of culpable tried in Magistrates *not summarily*.
I wrote magistrates Court, and then for part b, I wrote Magistrates judge.
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i didnt even get the point of the second question on that second page. like obviously the judge decides the final outcome? like who else does? a guy off the road? wtf
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I wonder how on earth VCAA let that question slip by...
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It would of been a nice trick question if it was a civil case
as the jury decides on the remedy...
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i didnt even get the point of the second question on that second page. like obviously the judge decides the final outcome? like who else does? a guy off the road? wtf
If it was County it would have been a jury...that's what made me more confused because it made me think it may have been either XD
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oh wow didnt even think for that then mayb it will defs be county court and not magistrates court.. they clearly went for the double trick there
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i didnt even get the point of the second question on that second page. like obviously the judge decides the final outcome? like who else does? a guy off the road? wtf
If it was County it would have been a jury...that's what made me more confused because it made me think it may have been either XD
If its County Court the judge still decides the sanction the jury only decides the verdict, isnt it????
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i didnt even get the point of the second question on that second page. like obviously the judge decides the final outcome? like who else does? a guy off the road? wtf
If it was County it would have been a jury...that's what made me more confused because it made me think it may have been either XD
If its County Court the judge still decides the sanction the jury only decides the verdict, isnt it????
Yep, that's the theory behind the answer being County Court- VCAA was trying to trick people into saying the jury decided the sanction.
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Oh was it sanction? I couldn't remember whether it was sanction or decision. God, not even 4 hours afterward and I can't remember XD Blah, ignore the ramblings of a crazy guy with crap memory. Must have missed that in the actual exam though, good thing I picked the Magistrates' and have the possibility of the awarding anyhow, would probably have went with jury XD
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Ohh I see I really hope they accept it.
Do you think they will accept just magistrate (cause I didn't right Magistrate judge)?
And also I wrote imprisonment for the criminal sanction..is that right?
yeah they probably will accept magistrate
i wrote " magistrate (independent and impartial adjudicator)"
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Culpable driving means: driving causing death
so doesnt it mean that this would be heard in the Supreme court....
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I wrote county, and my teacher said it would be accepted :| Hopefully they are lenient with their marking!!
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Culpable driving means: driving causing death
so doesnt it mean that this would be heard in the Supreme court....
It can be in county court too...
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Do you think they'll be strict on people saying 'magistrates judge' just to crack down?
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Magistrates court won't be accepted because it is wrong. The County court has jurisdiction over cupable driving cases. Jury renders a verdict and the judge decides on the sanction.
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I wrote Magistrates Court and a Magistrate for part b.
Everyone in my class and the teachers said that the answer was the County Court and a 'Judge' for part b.
Personally when i read the question it was the part about 150 hours community service that leant me towards the Magistrates Court. I think it was actually rediculous at the fact that they werent more specific. They should have said something like Culpable driving which caused death, or something like that because it would be more specific and not so ambiguous!
I wrote a fine for part c, and said its aim was deterence.. would that get me the full 3 marks you think?
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it's county court with judge deciding the sanction.. we had this exact question on the SAC and i wrote magistrate and it was marked wrong..
also culpable driving is an indictable offence so unless it was being heard summarily, it'd be county :)
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isnt culpable driving causing death would be SC. Culpable driving causing injury would be CC. Culpable driving. ie. being a hoon = MC. that is the my ratio decidendi.
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I know the correct answer SHOULD be County Court, as it was in my notes too, but the question wasn't very specific. If the culpable driving caused death then it would be held in the Supreme Court, which is what I wrote. I guess it didn't specify that though... But still, it didn't exactly really give any other background info. There are many reasons as to why the sanction could be community service, even if it was culpable driving causing death, so that surely can't be the only thing to distinguish between courts
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straight up the only victorian court with the jurisdiction to hear the death of a man, or in latin- homicide is the surpreme court and as culpable driving involves the death of a man through wreckless driving endangering life surely its the supreme court where the justice would determine the out come, the vcaa is not assessing what i was taught btw im blind right now and so glad vce is over forever peace x
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isnt culpable driving causing death would be SC. Culpable driving causing injury would be CC. Culpable driving. ie. being a hoon = MC. that is the my ratio decidendi.
agree fully ^^
because the sanction was community service, it made me think straight away Magistrates Court.. when I googled culpable driving many cases heard in the magistrates court came up. Like even a case of a dude going 72 km in a 60km zone. lol. and also Q2 made me think the VCAA were wanting students to automatically write 'Judge' instead of remembering that in the Magistrates Court the case is in fact heard by a Magistrate.
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The question about Carl was:
Carl has been found guilty of culpable driving and has been sanctioned to 150 hours community service.
What court would this most likely have been heard in?
Guys, don't forget the MOST LIKELY part. VCAA is justified when they say it could be the Magistrate, but it is most likely the County Court because a - no matter whether or not he caused death, it is an indictable offence. VCAA are assholes and decided to trick all of us. I personally put Magistrates, stupidly, because I saw the sanction and thought: 'hold on, it would have been an indictable offence heard summarily in the Magistrates court, because 150 hours does not justify killing someone.'
Stupidly, I didn't see the most likely part of the question.
In truth, VCAA will most likely ONLY accepted the County Court, and probably won't use consequential errors for the next part of that question. Meaning, whomever put Magistrates and said it was a Magistrate who handed down the sentence is incorrect and lost an overall of 2 marks - don't worry, I'm one of those people too. D:
And let me just clarify - CULPABLE DRIVING DOES NOT MEAN CAUSING DEATH.
There are the following:
Culpable driving (driving recklessly and endangering people) - which is an indictable offence that CAN be heard summarily.
Culpable driving causing injury (seriousness is rendered obselete for these purposes) - an indictable offence heard in the County Court.
Culpable driving causing death - an indictable offence also heard in the County Court carrying a maximum of 20 years jail sentence.
My thoughts: VCAA stuffed up. There fault. Not ours. Questions are supposed to be "staight forward." Next time they should include culpable driving in the study design and its differences.
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lols hahah yeah i was thinking about this question too.
For the court i wrote county court and for the judge i wrote magistrates.
ROFL to hopefully ensure myself 1 mark :) will that work?
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Culpable driving means: driving causing death
so doesnt it mean that this would be heard in the Supreme court....
I THOUGHT THE EXACT SAME THING!
Here's hoping the minority (probably just us) are somehow right. . .
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My teacher said she would have put County Court
Obviously there are big debates, I put County..
Culpable driving can be trialed summarily, we needed some more details!
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It was the County Court.
Hellhole's response above is spot on.
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i got a response from a teacher i know marking exams and he said that the answer to the question was county or supreme court, however as the 150 hours led so many students to answer magistrates, it is also being accepted. therefore, of course, the answer to the following question could have been either judge or magistrate. the only area where students might lose marks now is 1b, as that the queens representative (governor) was required to attain 2/2.
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The question about Carl was:
Carl has been found guilty of culpable driving and has been sanctioned to 150 hours community service.
What court would this most likely have been heard in?
Guys, don't forget the MOST LIKELY part. VCAA is justified when they say it could be the Magistrate, but it is most likely the County Court because a - no matter whether or not he caused death, it is an indictable offence. VCAA are assholes and decided to trick all of us. I personally put Magistrates, stupidly, because I saw the sanction and thought: 'hold on, it would have been an indictable offence heard summarily in the Magistrates court, because 150 hours does not justify killing someone.'
Stupidly, I didn't see the most likely part of the question.
In truth, VCAA will most likely ONLY accepted the County Court, and probably won't use consequential errors for the next part of that question. Meaning, whomever put Magistrates and said it was a Magistrate who handed down the sentence is incorrect and lost an overall of 2 marks - don't worry, I'm one of those people too. D:
And let me just clarify - CULPABLE DRIVING DOES NOT MEAN CAUSING DEATH.
There are the following:
Culpable driving (driving recklessly and endangering people) - which is an indictable offence that CAN be heard summarily.
Culpable driving causing injury (seriousness is rendered obselete for these purposes) - an indictable offence heard in the County Court.
Culpable driving causing death - an indictable offence also heard in the County Court carrying a maximum of 20 years jail sentence.
My thoughts: VCAA stuffed up. There fault. Not ours. Questions are supposed to be "staight forward." Next time they should include culpable driving in the study design and its differences.
I still don't understand. The jursdictiong of the Magistrates court, is hearing indictable offcences sumarily which is a prime example in this question. The jurisdiction of the COunty court does not include indictable offences heard summarily.
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I know someone who knows one of the markers and the answer was supposed to be the County Court but as the question was too ambiguous they will also be accepting the Supreme Court.
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i know an examinor, and heard DIRECTLY that magistrates, county, supreme are all correct.