ATAR Notes: Forum
VCE Stuff => Victorian Education Discussion => Topic started by: MBBS on November 12, 2010, 08:28:20 pm
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Say we have two people, person X and person Y.
Person X has studied about 3 hours a night from years 7-11. Going into year 12, he studies 4 hours a night. He is slightly less intelligent than person Y
Person Y is more intelligent. He however has not studied at all from years 7-10 yet has started studying hard in semester two and has really improved as a student. Going into year 12, he studies like crazy, literally doing 7 or so hours a day and full concentration in class. He is absolutely committed.
Which one would win out?
The real question I'm trying to ask is, how much of year 12 exams/year 12 in general asses simply what you have learnt in year 12? How much is accumulated knowledge?
Please discuss.
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No answers?
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From experience, person X will "win". I've never seen anybody do what person Y is doing. Not saying it can't happen, but I think that it's going to be fairly heavily weighted towards person X. Person Y can still do very well and achieve good scores but on average, I'd think that X would have an edge.
Also, 7 hours of study a day is counterproductive, please don't do it.
e, an 8 minute bump, have patience
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I'd say that there is very little required knowledge of things before year 12. Although it would obviously help to have solid foundations for mathematics, science and english etc.
I really think that at the beginning of the year ANYONE, no matter their prior results, can achieve 50 in their subjects. Also I'd say after ~3 hours of study a night you'd start burning out REALLY quickly.
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Its not about "winning" in terms of getting the highest ATAR, its about achieving your best.
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IMO:
Person X will do well, although I do know some people who attempt to do a "Person Y". Honestly if you're lazy throughout you're school life, it's pretty damn hard and I guess lucky, to do well in a "cram year"
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My school had a student last year or the year before who didn't "apparently" (can't be sure) study as hard as he could have in Years 7-9 or something, yet he ended up getting 99.95 in Year 12 - it's very rare to find a student like that.
If you put in the consistent effort and time, then you'll be rewarded.
Its not about "winning" in terms of getting the highest ATAR, its about achieving your best.
I agree. No one can ask anything more of you, if you know [in yourself] that you have given your best possible shot.
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Person Y for sure. I have tons of people like Person Y who attain perfection since they only focus on VCE stuff. Im sort of a person Y as I failed chem and got D and C in other subjects in year 11 but managed to do very well in year 12 cos i studied consistent (around 3-4 hours a day) through the whole year and I was a bit more mature.
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In theory, I think person Y would win. But as Russ said, I doubt a person Y exists in real life.
So in practice person X would probably do better.
My opinion on VCE is it is really all about exam technique. Students who have done exams from very early on in high school and taken them seriously are probably at a significant advantage over other students in terms of managing exam revision as well as the time constraints and stress/pressure of exams.
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Of course I agree with you studyinghard, I'm just curious which way would prove more successful.
Sorry Russ, I'm nervous going into year 12.
Unfortunately I'm Person Y. I just find that it took soooooo long this semester before I started achieving the same results as the top students, even though I studied harder than them. i would fully understand the concepts and stuff up on simple stuff. I'm eradicating that lack of foundation-knowledge though, slowly but surely. I'm just scared there are students, in other schools, who have unassailable leads over myself.
I'm not so much lazy, I've just never looked at school with any benefits. I've always achieved relatively high marks, like 90% or so. All my teachers have always maintained that I had to study hard over the next two years two get into engineering. I never wanted to do engineering. I asked about Medicine, all I was told is that in the last 25 years, 3 students have got into Medicine from my school and I wouldn't get in. Then at the midyear parent-teachers, one of the teachers said that I should study hard because he thought I could get into Medicine, if I put in the effort. It was such a turning point, I've become a very hard worker. But you have to understand, I've never been lazy to school, just found it very easy/boring. They are very different things.
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FWIW
A section of my year 10 maths report reads, "Y has achieved some commendable test results throughout the semester. However, to build successful study skills for his VCE studies, he should not rely on natural ability and is encouraged to build regular study habits."
I mean honestly, I never saw any benefits in listening in class/doing homework. I would always achieve relatively good results without preparing and I never saw that school lead to anything I liked growing up in a poor suburb. Hence, all I concentrated on was sport. I trained 5 times a week. I was quite good. So by no means am I a lazy human being.
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Person Y wins. I am person Y.
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Of course I agree with you studyinghard, I'm just curious which way would prove more successful.
More successful is person X on average. Person Y can still enjoy the same success, it's just rarer. I was halfway between X and Y and did well, it's not impossible. Key to year 12 is not to put extra pressure on yourself.
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Of course I agree with you studyinghard, I'm just curious which way would prove more successful.
Sorry Russ, I'm nervous going into year 12.
Unfortunately I'm Person Y. I just find that it took soooooo long this semester before I started achieving the same results as the top students, even though I studied harder than them. i would fully understand the concepts and stuff up on simple stuff. I'm eradicating that lack of foundation-knowledge though, slowly but surely. I'm just scared there are students, in other schools, who have unassailable leads over myself.
I'm not so much lazy, I've just never looked at school with any benefits. I've always achieved relatively high marks, like 90% or so. All my teachers have always maintained that I had to study hard over the next two years two get into engineering. I never wanted to do engineering. I asked about Medicine, all I was told is that in the last 25 years, 3 students have got into Medicine from my school and I wouldn't get in. Then at the midyear parent-teachers, one of the teachers said that I should study hard because he thought I could get into Medicine, if I put in the effort. It was such a turning point, I've become a very hard worker. But you have to understand, I've never been lazy to school, just found it very easy/boring. They are very different things.
Getting into medicine is not just about your school, if you really wanted to get into undergrad medicine you should have gone to medstudentonline forum and checked out the expectations and standards of those who get into medicine. I always knew atar-wise (there also the umat), those who get into medicine, are like in the 98-99 but I came to these forums to see what standard a 98-99 actually IS.
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I'm person Y, minus the intelligence and hardwork
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FWIW
A section of my year 10 maths report reads, "Y has achieved some commendable test results throughout the semester. However, to build successful study skills for his VCE studies, he should not rely on natural ability and is encouraged to build regular study habits."
I mean honestly, I never saw any benefits in listening in class/doing homework. I would always achieve relatively good results without preparing and I never saw that school lead to anything I liked growing up in a poor suburb. Hence, all I concentrated on was sport. I trained 5 times a week. I was quite good. So by no means am I a lazy human being.
Lol don't worry if it's 'study habits' and things like that.. I pretty much did no work at home until last year in year 11.. and even this year... maybe 30 mins a night?
A good score is very achievable, don't worry about minor things like this anyway, they can't really help you in the slightest.
Just be confident in yourself. Combine this with thorough understanding of the course and you're set. ;)
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To be perfectly honest with you, it wasn't a lifelong ambition or anything. I had no idea what medstudents on-line was. I just asked my teachers if I would get into Medicine and they basically told me that people from our area didn't get into medicine. What was I supposed to think?
I now know more about being a Doctor, it's amazing. I have been on medstudentsonline, I spend a lot of time nowadays doing practise IQ test/ Mensa books. My current commitment and desire for med is unquestionable. It's whether my past is too much of a hinderance.
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In theory, I think person Y would win. But as Russ said, I doubt a person Y exists in real life.
So in practice person X would probably do better.
My opinion on VCE is it is really all about exam technique. Students who have done exams from very early on in high school and taken them seriously are probably at a significant advantage over other students in terms of managing exam revision as well as the time constraints and stress/pressure of exams.
Can you elaborate on this?
Can you recommend revision techniques, when to revise, how to revise etc...?
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From experience, person X will "win". I've never seen anybody do what person Y is doing. Not saying it can't happen, but I think that it's going to be fairly heavily weighted towards person X. Person Y can still do very well and achieve good scores but on average, I'd think that X would have an edge.
Also, 7 hours of study a day is counterproductive, please don't do it.
e, an 8 minute bump, have patience
I completely disagree with everything this person has just said. Studying between 7-11 is fairly useless. Yes study maths in year 11, and maybe a little bit in year 10 but that's all you need. I'm telling you, I did NOTHING in maths 7-10 and got the highest study score in my school in methods. I was also ranked 1 in my year level for unit 4 English and I didn't really do very much 7-11. I have a friend who got a D+ on his year 11 English exam and got an A on his year 12 English exam. Studying earlier than year 11 is pretty much useless.
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Say we have two people, person X and person Y.
Person X has studied about 3 hours a night from years 7-11. Going into year 12, he studies 4 hours a night. He is slightly less intelligent than person Y
Person Y is more intelligent. He however has not studied at all from years 7-10 yet has started studying hard in semester two and has really improved as a student. Going into year 12, he studies like crazy, literally doing 7 or so hours a day and full concentration in class. He is absolutely committed.
Which one would win out?
The real question I'm trying to ask is, how much of year 12 exams/year 12 in general asses simply what you have learnt in year 12? How much is accumulated knowledge?
Please discuss.
Person Y EXACTLY describes my sis and she got an awesome score for her enter.. person X exactly describes me.. so ill let u know on Dec 13th which is better.. :)
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I know someone a bit like person X they studied all throughout highschool but still not getting the results in yr 12.
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I'm definetly a Y in the making.
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I think person x would run less of a risk of burning out because they have consistency and a schedule.
I do think though that person Y could always win out on some of those stupid ambiguous vcaa questions.
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I'm definetly a Y in the making.
I'd say im more of a Y as well except i started studying consistently since yr 11.
I did literally no work from yrs7-10. great times.
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All the Y'ers are guns :)
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I'd say im more of a Y as well except i started studying consistently since yr 11.
I did literally no work from yrs7-10. great times.
Yeah that's me all over hahahaha.
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If the vcaa questions are ambiguous. Focus on making sure you learn how to interpret them correctly? I used to think questions were ambiguous but I never do anymore.
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I think person x would run less of a risk of burning out because they have consistency and a schedule.
I do think though that person Y could always win out on some of those stupid ambiguous vcaa questions.
I think person x would run more of a risk. You have to get sick of studying eventully and if you start later there's less of a risk.
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I'm a bit of a person Y. Just played VCE like a bitch.
Take it easy yrs7-10, even chill in yr 11, man i failed yr 11 chem and physics, and this year i'll probably be up there in scores in my cohort.
In the end, VCE is a bit of a joke, its been said before and it will be said again, its all about doing well on your exams. They just count for so much, and so many people choke on them, and if you nail exam technique and know the stuff you have to know you're set.
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haha person Y describes me perfectly, except I never studied anywhere close to 7 housr a day, and I never listened attentively to teachers in class
"Y has achieved some commendable test results throughout the semester. However, to build successful study skills for his VCE studies, he should not rely on natural ability and is encouraged to build regular study habits."
I'm pretty sure my Y10 Maths report mimics that LOL.
My study habits changed really drastically from Y10-11 lol. In Y10, I was just playing computer games in class for half of my classes; In Maths I just slept all the time and did no work. Then come Y11, BOOM - became super obsessed with Methods: did every single qusetion in the Essentials Textbook, made 100 pages of notes, did every practice exam I could find, etc. I went from having no study habits to having excessive study habits, so thsi year I've had to cut back from the original overcompensation.
Exam technique is simple...JUST CONCENTRATE WHEN YOU'RE DOING THE EXAM, that's it. Teachers make it sound all mystical, as if you're going to fail if you don't have it. But really, it's just an intense single-minded focus for a 2-3 hour period.
And I'm not really sure if past years are that helpful =/ I was getting B's and C's for English and Science from Y7-9
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To be honest, I think the education fails people like you and me. I was so bored with the work we did. Saw no point in it. I didn't have to listen and I still got 90 percent or so. What the hell was the point in studying hard and getting an extra 6-7 percent?
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I think "fail" is a particularly harsh word to use if you were getting 90% consistently...it evidently wasn't engaging you, but I don't think fail is appropriate.
If you're knuckling down to do the practice for VCE you'll do great.
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Whilst the educational regime we presently have may 'fail' students in the way you just described, I think that there is still point in studying. Not to sound to pretentious, but I think that we should build meaning for learning ourselves, instead of letting the school curriculum define it. Learning shouldn't be, at any level, getting good grades/marks, and, alas, this is what the current system is pushing us towards. There is a thick margin between actual learning and academic success nowadays, and this is quite sad. We should really learn to view school as something that allows us to understand the world around us better, or to satisfy a personal curiosity about the world. So whilst there isn't really any 'point' in getting that extra 6 - 7 marks, just like there isn't much 'point' in getting a low-40 rather than a 50 in VCE, you should still try to find some interest in your school work, and not see it as some kind of chore or imperative that you must get out of the way for the sake of getting pretty A+s on your report.
My rant for the day. :)
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For what its worth Russ, I was just very good at making logical deductions. Then kind of forcing myself to the answer I knew to be correct.
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I agree with you. It's the education systems job to make us realise this in our young teenage years. Maybe start Vce a year earlier and have assessment over two years?