ATAR Notes: Forum
VCE Stuff => VCE English Studies => VCE Subjects + Help => VCE Literature => Topic started by: Voltman on June 06, 2008, 05:54:05 pm
-
:o Okay, apparently I'm doing Year 10 Literature (VCE), I have no idea what to expect. Does anyone know what kind of stuff I'll likely to be doing? Do we just read books and discuss the issues, emotions, predictions etc or are there other aspects to it (e.g. essay writing, story writing etc)?
What do they mean by VCE? And, finally is it hard?
-
My school had year 10 literature, but it wasn't a VCE unit. I didn't actually do it but I've heard it's quite interesting, and they basically do the stuff you said, analysis.
-
::) It is just that I am not really planning to do Literature next year. Will, doing Literature this year help with my English for VCE next year?
-
Literature and English are closely related, so yes, they will help with each other. It's worth checking Literature on the VCAA website to see all the course details, but it basically deals with responding to texts in an analytical and reflective sense.
-
Literature and English are closely related, so yes, they will help with each other.
This week, we had a taste of what's to come for Literature next semester and unfortunately, one of the texts we will be studying, involves something that goes against my religions and believes, which is a real shame since I had been looking forward to doing Lit. What should I do? Should I move classes? Do you think they'll let me study something different? What would you do?
EDIT: This post is not directed to anyone. Feel free to make your contributions.
-
How does it go against your religious beliefs exactly?
-
well i did literature as my vce subject in yr 11 and sat the exam.
Literature unfortunately is nothing like english and i think thats where i went most wrong, the style of writing and the actual analysis is different.
The analysis in lietrature involves u to analyse the authors tone and perspective in what he is writin and then explain the effect it has on the audience and why through the techniques he uses. Literature unlike english does not go for the colloquial approach but rather u expand ur choice of vocab and analysis.
The books that i did were Minority Report, The Hamilton Case, Jonne Donnes poems, Hedda Gabler and The Childrens Bache. Try to stay as close to the text as possible, if you do however stray remember to somehow link it back to the overall picture that the author is potrayin. Another huge problem i had was i was too used to the english style of personal reflection which is utterly banned by literature, u have to stick as close to the text as possible and back technically everything u say with quotes n evidence from the text tons of ppl did bad at the end of yr 12 exam bcoz they did not refer to the txt as much as possible.
im sure with a bit of practice u'll get it so i wudnt worry too much, the key thing is to keep practicing and to fully understand ur txts and the concepts that the author is accentuating in them.
good luck with literature this yr :)
-
How does it go against your religious beliefs exactly?
Well, one of the books that we are planning to study involves largely on a character who is gay. I don't feel right going through and studying the strong feelings of this character. I don't want to know how these kind of people think. It would make me extremely guilty to study this. Perhaps I should just bring a note from home to not study this. But apparently there seems to be an end-of-year exam on this, so it is probably best if I just move classes.
We will also be doing some poetry, which I dislike. Hopefully, English gives a better alternative.
-
English and Literature are about reading broadly and reading things you don't like.
I remember reading a book last year and I was so shocked as it had a young girl (younger than 10) being sexually abused/molested by her mother's boyfriend and eventually raping her. But it was a really good book and through discussing the issues in the book I honed my analyzing skills.
I think it's a bit weak-minded to drop a subject just because you don't agree with what a text discusses.
I really hope your not doing a History because you would have to deal with some pretty strong stuff you wouldn't agree with - (I'm doing Renaissance and I'm learning all about how women were treated as objects or animals which is quite interesting, but do you think I'm 'enjoying' reading about this as I am a girl?)
Maybe I'm not understanding enough - or maybe I'm too liberal and go against any authoritarian voices like the Church - but I can't see why you would drop a subject as awesome as Lit just because a main character is homosexual. Homosexuals and bisexuals and everything to do with sexuality is seen everyday in our society - why would you have difficulty in dealing with something like this in a book?
I think I'll stop ranting before I read too much into your previous post.
-
I have to agree with Rietie. The whole point of literature is to explore humanity through texts and homosexuality is very much a part of humanity, whether you're comfortable with it or not.
Also, poetry is awesome if it's taught well.
-
How does it go against your religious beliefs exactly?
Well, one of the books that we are planning to study involves largely on a character who is gay. I don't feel right going through and studying the strong feelings of this character. I don't want to know how these kind of people think. It would make me extremely guilty to study this. Perhaps I should just bring a note from home to not study this. But apparently there seems to be an end-of-year exam on this, so it is probably best if I just move classes.
We will also be doing some poetry, which I dislike. Hopefully, English gives a better alternative.
What is your religion?
-
??? This is not the right thread to be talking about religion.
-
English and Literature are about reading broadly and reading things you don't like.
I disagree.
I think it's a bit weak-minded to drop a subject just because you don't agree with what a text discusses.
I disagree. From my perspective, I see studying 'wrongs' such as homosexuality as one of the many acts that will lead to the roads of Hell. It is wrong that people must study certain things when doing Literature. They should change the study designs or at least give out options to make it right for many such as the religious conscious people.
How far would you go for Literature? Does spending an eternity or slightly less in Hell seem like a good sacrifice?
NOTE: The things I typed up above can be classified as Literature. It is not specific to a certain type of religion. There are many books that imply the same thing. Literature can sometimes be broad.
It is also not the only reason for why I am planning to drop Literature.
Other reasons for dropping Literature:
-I dislike Poetry. There is no passion in me towards it whatsoever.
-My current ranking of my Literature class is somewhere in the middle (not good) whereas if I moved into one of the English classes, it would be somewhere in the top 3 or lower (closer to 1).
-I am planning to do English next year; Literature is different to English. So, there is no point in me doing Literature this year, I'd only be waisting time in learning something that I won't use.
-
I disagree. From my perspective, I see studying 'wrongs' such as homosexuality as one of the many acts that will lead to the roads of Hell. It is wrong that people must study certain things when doing Literature. They should change the study designs or at least give out options to make it right for many such as the religious conscious people.
How far would you go for Literature? Does spending an eternity or slightly less in Hell seem like a good sacrifice?
Could you please elaborate on your reference to "hell"? I don't think any sane religion would advocate that studying a novel with a homosexual character will send you on the road to hell?
-
Hell: the place of eternal punishment for the wicked after death, presided over by Satan.
-
You're stating the obvious there. I was referring more to the relationship "hell" has with studying a novel with a homosexual character?
-
Is Voltman Catholic?
I'm Catholic and I don't see anything wrong with homosexuality. I also don't see how Catholicism objects to a Catholic person reading about a homosexual in a book. The Church is against homosexuals engaging in anything sexual, but I don't believe they are against homosexuality itself (or maybe I'm wrong?)
I also don't see how I will go to hell for not even committing a sin - reading about homosexuality is not a sin nor is it part of the 10 Commandments (nor is being homosexual or engaging in sodomy). I also don't believe I will enter hell for doing this as I don't believe in hell, or heaven for that matter - instead I believe in a place where all spirits/souls of humans go, where white bunnies jump past, where there is eternal sunshine (where I won't get burnt) and where I can eat an endless supply of chocolate fudge without paying for it or gaining weight from it.
Can I also ask what is so 'wrong' with homosexuality. Research has proven that people who are homosexual are actually born that way - it is not something they can change. So why should they be 'punished' for something they are born with and feel right about?
And why the hell should they change the study design, just because you can't read a book that has things inside it that you don't agree with. I hated Mr Wickham in Pride and Prejudice and hated the way in which people treated Lydia just for having sex with a man before marriage, but that doesn't stop me from loving the book.
And what do you mean by 'religious conscious people'? What exactly are you suggesting with that?
One other question: what are you planning to study at university, if that is what you want to do? I sure hope you don't do anything in the Arts faculty as you probably won't agree with half of what is said.
-
You're stating the obvious there. I was referring more to the relationship "hell" has with studying a novel with a homosexual character?
LOL, now you're stating the obvious.
Homosexuality has everything to do with Hell. In fact, in some countries showing certain things indicating this can get you prosecuted severely and sometimes even to death. But of course everyone has their own opinion on this matter. So, I'd hate to stir some sort of 'uproar' or uncertainties in one's own religions or beliefs (that is why I am a bit reluctant on stating my religion).
Anyway to clarify, I am not a religious 'nut' or even catholic for that matter. But homosexuality or something similar in a book (pornographic) is something I disagree with (I'm sure like many).
I am also aware that people do not choose to be gay or not, so it is not this that ticks but the many different ways that it can be expressed (i.e. in books). It passes on the message that it is an okay thing, something that it isn't.
-
So you're against the freedom to freely express your imagination, ideas and whatever on paper and then get it published?
What is this book that you're so against?
-
So you're against the freedom to freely express your imagination, ideas and whatever on paper and then get it published?
No, you're twisting my words. I am not against the freedom to freely express within restrictions. I believe that people should be able publish whatever...let's say pornography they like as long as they keep it to themselves and don't share it with a vast amount of people.
EDIT: People should have the right to not see that pornography or whatever it is that is being considered.
-
Can you answer my question: what book are we talking about?
And how pornographic are you talking about?
Funnily, this reminds me of Keats' poetry and the poem Eve of St Agnes, which involves the orgasm of the female through oral sex. Was hilarious to read in class, with my teacher snorting in between laughing :D
-
Funnily, this reminds me of Keats' poetry and the poem Eve of St Agnes, which involves the orgasm of the female through oral sex. Was hilarious to read in class, with my teacher snorting in between laughing :D
Oh, my goodness. Sounds ghastly.
EDIT: Sorry, honestly I can't remember. I was trying not listen to wrongs. Though it looked like a pretty old one. And even if I did, I wouldn't mention it in this thread. As said before, I am against its 'advertisement'. However, the teacher did warn us that it had some strong emotions involved and many things he described as being 'below the belt' if you know what I mean.
-
Funnily, this reminds me of Keats' poetry and the poem Eve of St Agnes, which involves the orgasm of the female through oral sex. Was hilarious to read in class, with my teacher snorting in between laughing :D
Oh, my goodness. Sounds ghastly.
Ghastly? Um no. More like beautiful, but also erotic:
Awakening up, he took her hollow lute,—
Tumultuous,—and, in chords that tenderest be,
He play’d an ancient ditty, long since mute,
In Provence call’d, “La belle dame sans mercy:”
Close to her ear touching the melody;—
Wherewith disturb’d, she utter’d a soft moan:
He ceased—she panted quick—and suddenly
Her blue affrayed eyes wide open shone:
Upon his knees he sank, pale as smooth-sculptured stone.
Her eyes were open, but she still beheld,
Now wide awake, the vision of her sleep:
There was a painful change, that nigh expell’d
The blisses of her dream so pure and deep
At which fair Madeline began to weep,
And moan forth witless words with many a sigh;
While still her gaze on Porphyro would keep;
Who knelt, with joined hands and piteous eye,
Fearing to move or speak, she look’d so dreamingly.
“Ah, Porphyro!” said she, “but even now
“Thy voice was at sweet tremble in mine ear,
“Made tuneable with every sweetest vow;
“And those sad eyes were spiritual and clear:
“How chang’d thou art! how pallid, chill, and drear!
“Give me that voice again, my Porphyro,
“Those looks immortal, those complainings dear!
“Oh leave me not in this eternal woe,
“For if thou diest, my Love, I know not where to go.”
Beyond a mortal man impassion’d far
At these voluptuous accents, he arose,
Ethereal, flush’d, and like a throbbing star
Seen mid the sapphire heaven’s deep repose;
Into her dream he melted, as the rose
Blendeth its odour with the violet,—
Solution sweet: meantime the frost-wind blows
Like Love’s alarum pattering the sharp sleet
Against the window-panes; St. Agnes’ moon hath set.
-
I just don't understand how people see beauty in poetry. Its just annoying, analysing it and all,:P
Don't know why people actually write using metaphors and confusing language when they can just write "normally"
BTW I didn't understand that poem, nor did I see any links to oral sex.... Guess I'm Poetically Challenged
-
Oral sex:
playing a tune on her 'hollow lute', 'moan', 'panted', etc.
Sex:
'he arose, ethereal, flush’d, and like a throbbing star', 'solution sweet'
The part of the poem is basically about Pophyro entering Madeline's chamber, and then having sex with her. However she thinks she is dreaming as she was following some religious rite where then she would dream of the man she would marry/love, so she believes sex is part of the dream.
-
I just don't understand how people see beauty in poetry. Its just annoying, analysing it and all,:P
Don't know why people actually write using metaphors and confusing language when they can just write "normally"
BTW I didn't understand that poem, nor did I see any links to oral sex.... Guess I'm Poetically Challenged
I hope you realise you're dissing one of the greatest poets who ever lived, but who only lived to he was 25 (I think - or maybe to 21?)
-
So you're against the freedom to freely express your imagination, ideas and whatever on paper and then get it published?
No, you're twisting my words. I am not against the freedom to freely express within restrictions. I believe that people should be able publish whatever...let's say pornography they like as long as they keep it to themselves and don't share it with a vast amount of people.
EDIT: People should have the right to not see that pornography or whatever it is that is being considered.
I agree with what you said here, Voltman. In all 3 Englishes you're liable to be exposed to stuff potentially disturbing or distressing to some people.
However, it was unnecessary to have previously exposed yourself [do excuse me ;)] as a homophobe and a bigot.
-
Oral sex:
playing a tune on her 'hollow lute', 'moan', 'panted', etc.
Sex:
'he arose, ethereal, flush’d, and like a throbbing star', 'solution sweet'
The part of the poem is basically about Pophyro entering Madeline's chamber, and then having sex with her. However she thinks she is dreaming as she was following some religious rite where then she would dream of the man she would marry/love, so she believes sex is part of the dream.
Keats :) St Agnes was initially going to have more erotic scenes - but his publisher wouldn't publish it - (I vaguely remember that being mentioned in a crit) - born 1795 - died 1921 = he was 25...
This made me die of laughter when I read it -Bryon - Keats work was "a sort of mental masturbation... I don't mean he is indecent, but viciously soliciting his ideas with a state, which is neither poetry nor anything else but a Bedlam vision produced by raw pork and opium"
ALSO: of relevancy to the debate at hand: "lynching is to justice as censorship is to art"- which in turn links to the Henderson art debate. I think that the debate that you have been having is similar to the essence of Literature (the subject). Personal experiences is linked to the way in which you "read" things and inform your understanding and importantly your interpretation. However, you need to be exposed to opinions of others to inform the interpretation. I think this links back to your first question - What is Lit? Lit requires debate, however it also requires open mindedness.
Although I do not understand your cultural background, nor would I blink an eyelid at a homosexual character in a text, you are entitled to your opinions. However I think an issue of concern in the community at large is the extent we are allowed to express ourselves freely without persecution. I think if the study design prohibited texts such as this unnamed text, from appearing it would infer a political statement and would be active discrimination against homosexual people.
Perhaps, as you feel so strongly against this text and are unwilling to give poetry a chance, then you would fare better in a different subject.
-
BTW I didn't understand that poem, nor did I see any links to oral sex.... Guess I'm Poetically Challenged
"In science one tries to tell people, in such a way as to be understood by everyone, something no one ever knew before. But in poetry, it's the exact opposite"- Paul Dirac (1902-84)
-
Funnily, this reminds me of Keats' poetry and the poem Eve of St Agnes, which involves the orgasm of the female through oral sex. Was hilarious to read in class, with my teacher snorting in between laughing :D
Oh, my goodness. Sounds ghastly.
EDIT: Sorry, honestly I can't remember. I was trying not listen to wrongs. Though it looked like a pretty old one. And even if I did, I wouldn't mention it in this thread. As said before, I am against its 'advertisement'. However, the teacher did warn us that it had some strong emotions involved and many things he described as being 'below the belt' if you know what I mean.
BTW I didn't understand that poem, nor did I see any links to oral sex.... Guess I'm Poetically Challenged
"In science one tries to tell people, in such a way as to be understood by everyone, something no one ever knew before. But in poetry, it's the exact opposite"- Paul Dirac (1902-84)
lol, if poetry is so abstruse then you'll be spared from being aware of it pertaining to "wrongs" :)
Edit: ZOMG i average exactly 2 posts per day atm :D
-
The part of the poem is basically about Pophyro entering Madeline's chamber, and then having sex with her. However she thinks she is dreaming as she was following some religious rite where then she would dream of the man she would marry/love, so she believes sex is part of the dream.
can i clarify something- so she's dreaming (asleep), but a guy is having sex with her?
isn't that rape?
please tell me i've missinterpreted something, because i don't find anything beautiful about that
-
The part of the poem is basically about Pophyro entering Madeline's chamber, and then having sex with her. However she thinks she is dreaming as she was following some religious rite where then she would dream of the man she would marry/love, so she believes sex is part of the dream.
can i clarify something- so she's dreaming (asleep), but a guy is having sex with her?
isn't that rape?
please tell me i've missinterpreted something, because i don't find anything beautiful about that
Um, it's not rape if there's consent - which is obviously seen. Basically she is sleeping, there is oral sex and she wakes up at the end of that. Then they have sex (with both fully awake and wanting to do it), then they go to sleep, then after that, they wake up and escape away together (because the girl's family don't like the boy).
-
Voltman, they shouldn't have to change the study design because a large majority of people doing literature aren't offended by it, and if they cut out the book with homosexuals, somebody else could say they're offended by something equally trivial, a mormon could say they're offended that a book mentions a black person. And basically in the end they'd have to no books :(
Also, it could probably be seen as discrimination.
Go to a catholic school?
-
NECROMANCY!!!!