ATAR Notes: Forum
VCE Stuff => Victorian Education Discussion => Topic started by: werdna on January 12, 2011, 08:53:50 pm
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Just an interesting thought - what is the estimated lowest ATAR score achieved in a selective or private school?
In addition to this, what is the difficulty, if so, in getting a 'low' ATAR score in a selective/private school?
In a public school you'd sort of 'get away' with a less than 30 ATAR, but what is the vibe like in the top tier schools?
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I guess the lowest would be dropping out... (yes, private school kids drop out sometimes)
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That you are taking over your Dad's business, so school doesn't matter.
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I suppose this is off-topic but how do you even get a Study Score of less than 20?
I mean a solid D+ average gets you a 20...
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Don't turn up to exams because you're only doing year 12 because your parents want you to finish high school etc.
As for private schools, most of them manage to get the majority of students over 70 or so. I didn't see too many <70 scores when I graduated.
e, VVVVVVV
typo
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I didn't see too many <80 scores when I graduated.
Wow.. only around 10% of my school's cohort gets over 70.
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What's the point of this thread LOL? Just wondering :S
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how do you even get a Study Score of less than 20?
A guy in my media class got 19 in media... It was so great having him sitting right in front me during the exam mucking around + talking and doing whatever he could do get attention. e.g. tapping the desk, humming, rocking on his chair etc. So yeah, he basically spent about 10 minutes overall on the actual exam....I think he got an E for it... It scaled down to 14!
Then again, my school is crap haha. So scores like that aren't so out of the ordinary..
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That you are taking over your Dad's business, so school doesn't matter.
He did refer to selective schools as well sooooo...xD
Edit: Just a little random, atar.
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I know some top schools with ATAR scores in the 50s. And drop outs don't often occur because private/selective schools tend to weed them out before it can happen.
P.S. Trust ATAR to take it off topic... :P :P
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Cyril Rioli (Richmond FC player) went to my brother's school (Scotch College) and had an ENTER of 16~17.something
then again only attended Scotch since he had a sports scholarship and he's in the AFL now so im pretty sure he's earning much more than his peers who are still in uni :S
*edit*
woops, Cyril Rioli plays for Hawthorn, i got mixed up with his father~
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MHS had a lowest atar of about high 60s in 2009, i suspect it could be a tad lower for 2010 judging some of the people we had
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Cyril Rioli (Richmond FC player) went to my brother's school (Scotch College) and had an ENTER of 16~17.something
then again only attended Scotch since he had a sports scholarship and he's in the AFL now so im pretty sure he's earning much more than his peers who are still in uni :S
Cyril plays for Hawthorn :P jeez that is a very low enter... what kind of study scores and exam marks would you need to achieve that??? :O
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Cyril Rioli (Richmond FC player) went to my brother's school (Scotch College) and had an ENTER of 16~17.something
then again only attended Scotch since he had a sports scholarship and he's in the AFL now so im pretty sure he's earning much more than his peers who are still in uni :S
Cyril plays for Hawthorn :P jeez that is a very low enter... what kind of study scores and exam marks would you need to achieve that??? :O
I was under the impression if you get less than 30 it comes as <30, you don't get an exact ENTER?
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Cyril Rioli (Richmond FC player) went to my brother's school (Scotch College) and had an ENTER of 16~17.something
then again only attended Scotch since he had a sports scholarship and he's in the AFL now so im pretty sure he's earning much more than his peers who are still in uni :S
Cyril plays for Hawthorn :P jeez that is a very low enter... what kind of study scores and exam marks would you need to achieve that??? :O
I was under the impression if you get less than 30 it comes as <30, you don't get an exact ENTER?
There's a button to let you see it from the screenshot I saw of someone in this situation.
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I suppose this is off-topic but how do you even get a Study Score of less than 20?
I mean a solid D+ average gets you a 20...
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I have a friend who got 12SS for English.
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Is it really THAT humiliating to be ranked 7th out of 10 people?
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Is it really THAT humiliating to be ranked 7th out of 10 people?
That's an interesting observation. I'd say yes, only because the world is filled with mediocrity, with people that don't value life, and people that are ignorant of their surroundings. I'd be loath to think that I was one of them. Now let's not get started on whether the ATAR actually means something. For me it does - not the number necessarily - more the process I went through before receiving it.
As a side note, the ATAR confuses me slightly. Last year, from a good source, 24% of Victorians had an ENTER higher than 85. How does that work?
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Is it really THAT humiliating to be ranked 7th out of 10 people?
That's an interesting observation. I'd say yes, only because the world is filled with mediocrity, with people that don't value life, and people that are ignorant of their surroundings. I'd be loath to think that I was one of them. Now let's not get started on whether the ATAR actually means something. For me it does - not the number necessarily - more the process I went through before receiving it.
As a side note, the ATAR confuses me slightly. Last year, from a good source, 24% of Victorians had an ENTER higher than 85. How does that work?
I always wondered that as well. Although it's a percentile ranks, the percentages allocated to each percentile are massively off. I can't imagine things such as people who drop out affecting the percentages THAT much...
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I think the people who fail and drop out are allocated ATAR's between 0 and xx.xx
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Yeah that's right.
MHS had a lowest atar of about high 60s in 2009, i suspect it could be a tad lower for 2010 judging some of the people we had
In 2009 my school had 3 out of 9 get < 30 haha
There was a nice improvement last year though - two people were equal lowest at 38 :P
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I think the answer regarding the percentile problem was answered by Mao at some stage. I don't know the details but I think it was something about a truncated normal distribution IIRC.
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I dunno why such a statistic should concern you
One of mhs's most successful alumni dropped out in year 10
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Wow, and I thought my school was the cream of the crop for dropkicks. Some of these ATARs posted are absolutely shocking.
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I remember my friend telling me that her friend was forced to choose a 7th subject at his school (not sure why) so he chose Music Solo and played Mary Had a Little Lamb on his electric guitar and did nothing in the written exam and got an SS of 2
but doesn't matter since he got an ATAR of 90+ LOL
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I remember my friend teller me that her friend was forced to choose a 7th subject at his school (not sure why) so he chose Music Solo and played Mary Had a Little Lamb on his electric guitar and did nothing in the written exam and got an SS of 2
but doesn't matter since he got an ATAR of 90+ LOL
that's such a silly thing for a school to do. Not only does it waste the kids time, but it drops the school's ranking too. But it's prety funny still. I wish someone had filmed it :P
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I remember my friend telling me that her friend was forced to choose a 7th subject at his school (not sure why) so he chose Music Solo and played Mary Had a Little Lamb on his electric guitar and did nothing in the written exam and got an SS of 2
but doesn't matter since he got an ATAR of 90+ LOL
gold
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my friend studied his arse off and got a raw 18 in chinese sl.
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I remember my friend teller me that her friend was forced to choose a 7th subject at his school (not sure why) so he chose Music Solo and played Mary Had a Little Lamb on his electric guitar and did nothing in the written exam and got an SS of 2
but doesn't matter since he got an ATAR of 90+ LOL
that's such a silly thing for a school to do. Not only does it waste the kids time, but it drops the school's ranking too. But it's prety funny still. I wish someone had filmed it :P
I understand that this happens at many schools. My school has a policy which forces students to do 5 subjects in year 12. There are a students, like myself, who do two 3/4s in year 11, and that means they do 7 in total. Students who enrolled for two 3/4s in year 11 even had to sign a contract stating they would do 5 in year 12. TBH, such students who are capable of doing two in year 11 should feel comfortable doing 7 in total; for many it acts as a backup subject or just ensuring they don't miss out on a subject they really want to do. Personally, I find it comforting and I hope I can cope with the work load (although I'm doing 8 in total :P). It's the students who do the 7 subjects who get the 99.95s at our school.
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my friend studied his arse off and got a raw 18 in chinese sl.
lol same here with me
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my friend studied his arse off and got a raw 18 in chinese sl.
lol same here with me
That'd be so painful :/
I had a friend who finished this year, and was extremely confident about his PE score. Thought that even though he didn't know that much about the entire course, he had passed most of his SACs he was ready for a great score. Was so confident in fact, that he slept for a big part of the exam! Anyway, he got an SS of 19, and was a little surprised.
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What would the 'great score' have been? 30, 35? To confidently sleep in the exam and then get 19 is ... weird lol
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I know for my year level at least, there was a guy who got like 59 for his ATAR. It happens.
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What would the 'great score' have been? 30, 35? To confidently sleep in the exam and then get 19 is ... weird lol
Yeah, tell me about it. I'm not sure what he thought he was going to get, but it was probably higher than 35, certainly higher than 19 ha. It's just a problem some people have with not understanding the school system, and that simply passing doesn't get you great scores :/
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What would the 'great score' have been? 30, 35? To confidently sleep in the exam and then get 19 is ... weird lol
Yeah, tell me about it. I'm not sure what he thought he was going to get, but it was probably higher than 35, certainly higher than 19 ha. It's just a problem some people have with not understanding the school system, and that simply passing doesn't get you great scores :/
yeah *A LOT* of people dont understand the system. My mate was getting 100% on sacs throughout the year for PE and thuoght he was gonna ge a 50 even if he didnt do great on the exam :o in the end he got a 40 which is still a good score.
I think schools should tell students how the system works - the marks you need in sacs and exams in order to achieve certain study scores, otherwise most students will have false hope.
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a guy got 37 at my school.
and we got a fwe 99.xx's.
there is always a spread of scores at most schools...
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Yeah we always have one or two who get 40, all up, which seems silly when the majority get over 90. They aren't oblivious to their situation though - they know they won't do amazingly, but they don't realise quite how low they'll get. It's kind of a wake up call for them.
Obviously they just don't prepare well for the exam, so much so our sac marks (eg. english got moderated up at least a whole grade) can't save them.
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I go to a private school, and none of my group of friends got above 80...besides me....which is weird because they seem to do a lot more study than myself.
Let's see, my friends got....2 in the 40's, a 59, 60, 63...
the rest won't tell me hah.
On the other hand i know another group that all got 80+
I was really surprised. Our year level seriously sucked. I guess it shows that even a private school can't get you a good ATAR
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MHS had a lowest atar of about high 60s in 2009, i suspect it could be a tad lower for 2010 judging some of the people we had
Bet you ours will be lower...
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MHS does have a fair share of duds,
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Haileybury sent a double sided sheet about the schools 2010 atar results and the principle wrote that 95% of students were in the top 50% so that would mean that 5% of students got an ATAR of less than 50.00
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Good one Principal!
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Wow... You guys have schools that are miles above the average.
I just copied this chunk of text from my schools annual report from last year:
"It was pleasing to see more than one third of our Victorian Certificate
Education students achieve an ENTER of 70 and higher."
Granted i don't go to a fancy private school or anything like that (catholic, but really its more or less equal to the public schools around here).
I know people who got under 30 if you guys are going for some kind of competition or something
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eh, this was copied off my school's site - mind you we only had around 50 yr 12's in the year level
The highest ATAR was 99.95
6% of students were in the top 1% of the state
24% of students were in the top 5% of the state
41% of students were in the top 10% of the state
76% of students were in the top 30% of the state
27% of study scores were over 40
The median study score was 35
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eh, this was copied off my school's site - mind you we only had around 50 yr 12's in the year level
The highest ATAR was 99.95
6% of students were in the top 1% of the state
24% of students were in the top 5% of the state
41% of students were in the top 10% of the state
76% of students were in the top 30% of the state
27% of study scores were over 40
The median study score was 35
Wow, these are excellent scores! Do you mind me asking which school you go to?
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Kilvington Girls Grammar :X mind you we're going co-ed for the prep~grade 6 this year and when I leave the whole school is going co-ed
mainly because my school is becoming too hobo due to low student numbers and we cant offer subjects such as Geography, IT, Eng Language etc
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I can spot Kilvington Girls from 100m away.Their uniform is very...
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LOL the magenta jumpers are gross. Thank god I have the navy VCE jumper =="
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I found this on our website, mind you it's for last year. They're a bit slow. Private school.
10% of students achieved ENTERS of 98 or over
27% of ENTERS were over 95
45% of ENTERS were over 90
Median Study score 36
Dux was 99.85 but this year 99.9
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I found this on our website, mind you it's for last year. They're a bit slow.
10% of students achieved ENTERS of 98 or over
27% of ENTERS were over 95
45% of ENTERS were over 90
Median Study score 36
^Thats pretty good (nearly half getting 95+ is awesome)! How big is the cohort btw?
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Umm.. about 100 :)
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My school is private and as far as I'm aware, my school's lowest result was about 60.XX or something, a few years back.
I found this on our website, mind you it's for last year. They're a bit slow.
My school is the same. Really slow. That's what it reads on my school's website;
In 2009, 13% scored 99 or above; 42% scored 95 or above; 60% scored 90 or above.
We had a cohort of around ~170 students. My school has purposely not updated its' VCE results, since we under-performed this year. :p
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I went to a private school, I know of couple of people who got in the 20s for their ATAR, haha it's horrible.
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My school hasn't had anyone drop out of vce for 4 years, however the year before that a girl was expelled because she forgot to cite one resource for her english oral, and they expelled her 2 other sister who also went to our school because they didn't want to have anything to do with their family :( but the eng teacher who got her expelled was fired the next year :D
in terms of atars scores the dux got 99.5, the median score was 88.85 ~ about 100 in the cohort, 30% got over 95 and 73% got over 80, the lowest scores were a bit over 70 and the median study scores overall was 36...
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With regards to the public/private discourse, I think that far too much emphasis is placed on 'results'. Far too many schools, from what I've seen, revolve their school's spirit and nature around VCE results, induce parents towards their schools because of their seemingly exceptional VCE results, and have forgotten the true essence of what Australian education should be. As a result of this, private schools (and their students) are inadvertently left feeling far more 'superior' over public schools (and their students).
I spent a fair bit of last year tutoring young kids in the new learning environments at my school. My school definitely isn't VCE-results-oriented, and I don't ever think it was or is going to be. It's located in a low-socio-economic area and a majority of the students have suffered a plethora of personal issues, migrated from war-torn countries, have had both parents pass away due to war and the list goes on. However, the school prides itself on the diversity of its student body - and this is the point at which VCE results, MySchool rankings and national school ranking lists all become highly irrelevant.
I say this without exaggeration or amplification - the dedication, diligence and conscientiousness of these young students, who have come from heavily disadvantaged backgrounds, is truly inspiring. To me, these students have definitely proven that education should not be evolved around competition or rankings, but about one's ability to reach their full potential, breathe an air of opportunity and work hard, regardless of their hardships. To see these kids happy, working together in state-of-the-art learning facilities, reaping all the benefits that the school has entrusted on them, definitely beats private school students' quests to beat that Asian kid in the next maths test, or other students' endless attempts to cheat the system and rally for a high ATAR, against the good will of their fellow peers and teachers.
And it comes down to this: this year, as school captain, I will be making it very, very clear to the school community, that it doesn't matter if you go to a public school or a private school, for hard work and success is universal. I have seen so many junior students being bogged down by the negative public perception of our school, which then has a severe impact on their motivation and self-esteem - believing that they cannot do well in a school in such a locality. But it definitely is possible, and I'll be making this very clear to the students. Our school has undergone a serious redevelopment, and I think this will most definitely improve student outcomes. I'll be drawing upon each and every individual to dream big because they will achieve big... and I think this is the very quintessence of what education should be all about.
I didn't plan this 'essay' so it's sorta all over the place.
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My school hasn't had anyone drop out of vce for 4 years, however the year before that a girl was expelled because she forgot to cite one resource for her english oral, and they expelled her 2 other sister who also went to our school because they didn't want to have anything to do with their family :( but the eng teacher who got her expelled was fired the next year :D
in terms of atars scores the dux got 99.5, the median score was 88.85 ~ about 100 in the cohort, 30% got over 95 and 73% got over 80, the lowest scores were a bit over 70 and the median study scores overall was 36...
EXPELLED FOR NOT CITING HER REFERENCE FOR AN ORAL DDDD:
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That you are taking over your Dad's business, so school doesn't matter.
I have cousins who are taking on that opportunity. One of them who finished VCE in 09 is already driving a brand new Mercedes CLK AMG.
Anyway I know someone who went to Scotch College but only got 50-some ENTER, having said that, Scotch is more renown for sports.
As for selective private schools, I guess >90 is probably the minimum.
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Cyril Rioli (Richmond FC player) went to my brother's school (Scotch College) and had an ENTER of 16~17.something
then again only attended Scotch since he had a sports scholarship and he's in the AFL now so im pretty sure he's earning much more than his peers who are still in uni :S
*edit*
woops, Cyril Rioli plays for Hawthorn, i got mixed up with his father~
Stefan Martin used to go to my school, plays for Demons got 99.75!
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My school hasn't had anyone drop out of vce for 4 years, however the year before that a girl was expelled because she forgot to cite one resource for her english oral, and they expelled her 2 other sister who also went to our school because they didn't want to have anything to do with their family :( but the eng teacher who got her expelled was fired the next year :D
wtf? That is pretty strange...
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Stefan Martin is a nobody.
Luke Ball pulled off a 98.8 and got 2nd pick in a draft. That's somewhat impressive.
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Luke Ball pulled off a 98.8 and got 2nd pick in a draft. That's somewhat impressive.
And got into dentistry...
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By dentistry you mean commerce/law?
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^^ I am pretty sure he got into dentistry (dunno if he went though)... lol, maybe that some other football player... (my bad if so)
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I say this without exaggeration or amplification - the dedication, diligence and conscientiousness of these young students, who have come from heavily disadvantaged backgrounds, is truly inspiring. To me, these students have definitely proven that education should not be evolved around competition or rankings, but about one's ability to reach their full potential, breathe an air of opportunity and work hard, regardless of their hardships. To see these kids happy, working together in state-of-the-art learning facilities, reaping all the benefits that the school has entrusted on them, definitely beats private school students' quests to beat that Asian kid in the next maths test, or other students' endless attempts to cheat the system and rally for a high ATAR, against the good will of their fellow peers and teachers.
I actually like the content of most of this post, but the specific example you give of "private school students' quests to beat that Asian kid in the next maths test" seems a bit overgeneralised and, to an extent, insulting.
That you are taking over your Dad's business, so school doesn't matter.
I have cousins who are taking on that opportunity. One of them who finished VCE in 09 is already driving a brand new Mercedes CLK AMG.
Anyway I know someone who went to Scotch College but only got 50-some ENTER, having said that, Scotch is more renown for sports.
As for selective private schools, I guess >90 is probably the minimum.
Untrue - if anything, Scotch has a bit of a reputation for being fiercely academic in the maths/science areas nowadays. I'd just put your point on that student as being an outlier. Remember that Melbourne Grammar is in the same vein as Scotch (traditionally one of the highest achieving non-selective schools in the state) and has had similarly "low" results coming from it before.
On that note, there aren't really that any heavily selective private schools at all; rather, the most selective schools in the state would likely be MHS and MacRob. I know as a fact that both of those schools regularly produce students with sub-90 ATARs as well; said students are in the minority, but it's a bit of a misunderstanding to assume that going to a selective school means that you'll automatically get an awesome score.
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On that note, there aren't really that any heavily selective private schools at all; rather, the most selective schools in the state would likely be MHS and MacRob. I know as a fact that both of those schools regularly produce students with sub-90 ATARs as well; said students are in the minority,but it's a bit of a misunderstanding to assume that going to a selective school means that you'll automatically get an awesome score.
The number of times my dad tells me this, its not funny.
And MHS/MacRob aren't good because of teachers (or even the fact that they 'select' the 'best' students at year 8), if they banned their students from going to any private tuition (impossible to do, but just hypothetical), the median ATAR would drop by at least 5. For example, in my bio class this year (25 people), 20 (or 19) got 40+ raw and 22 did bio tutoring. And our teacher was the worst. Without that private tuition, the number of 40+ scores would have been around 8.
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I actually like the content of most of this post, but the specific example you give of "private school students' quests to beat that Asian kid in the next maths test" seems a bit overgeneralised and, to an extent, insulting.
Sorry about that EZ.. I was just on one of my rants. ;) I definitely didn't mean to offend or insult anyone with that comment.
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^ Rohitpi, I'm surprised at that.. would've thought MHS of all schools would have decent teachers.
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MHS might be selective but they're still public and thus don't have the incentives that private schools offer.
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^ Rohitpi, I'm surprised at that.. would've thought MHS of all schools would have decent teachers.
Common misconception. We have the worst physics dep in the state, our English department is half-dud (thank god our yr12 teachers are good though), our maths dep only has about 3-4 teachers who are truly capable of teaching 3/4 methods, our bio dep was good until my teacher rocked up and lowered the standard, the head of history and debating (at least I think he is the head) is known to fall asleep in class, and our music dep is getting constantly rearranged (3 changes in three years). Only our eco/BM, chem, PE/health and geo deps are any good. I can't really talk for our art or accounting deps, having never really done art and having never attempted accounting.
MHS might be selective but they're still public and thus don't have the incentives that private schools offer.
This.
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MHS might be selective but they're still public and thus don't have the incentives that private schools offer.
Third'd. From what I hear, MacRob has the same sort of problem on the whole.
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Common misconception. We have the worst physics dep in the state, our English department is half-dud (thank god our yr12 teachers are good though), our maths dep only has about 3-4 teachers who are truly capable of teaching 3/4 methods, our bio dep was good until my teacher rocked up and lowered the standard, the head of history and debating (at least I think he is the head) is known to fall asleep in class, and our music dep is getting constantly rearranged (3 changes in three years). Only our eco/BM, chem, PE/health and geo deps are any good. I can't really talk for our art or accounting deps, having never really done art and having never attempted accounting.
+infinity. The Physics faculty is lower than shit, possibly bullshit :P The English is slightly better due to an old woman retiring (finally, although suffered her in Y9) and yeah he's the head of debating and history LOL (free diploma credits mind you). Our Eco/BM is pretty impressive though. IMO MHS does well because of the peer competition.
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I think commerce is our strongest faculty.
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My schools a private/catholic school and we're not that great
These are the 2009 results ("a good year")... I'm not suprised 2010 results haven't been published, average study score dropped to 28 :S
Dux: 98.15
7.2% earned an ENTER of 90 or higher.
22.5% earned an ENTER of 80 or higher.
15% gained Study Scores above 40. (Average Study Score was 30)
92.19% received an offer of a tertiary placement.
We do have a big cohort though... ~300 YR 12s doing vce.
I'm pretty sure it'd be pretty hard to get a ATAR less than 30. It's probably 'I don't give a crap about vce' people getting less than 30 I think (Why even bother?!) and we do a few of them; some drop out, a majority do VCAL, and some were dusted off during 'spring cleaning'. And besides wouldn't your SAC marks send alarm bells ringing for the teachers? Our teachers would be like 'improve your marks or gtfo.'
Um but yeah, I haven't ever heard of anyone getting lower than 30 before, lowest I've heard is 50. But then again, would you tell people if you got less than 30 :S
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Because of this thread, I actually went and checked my old high school (private) and they had 43% over 90 in 2010
So yeah, I would expect there to be a correlation
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I think commerce is our strongest faculty.
And geo. Although I disliked geo, the teachers really know their stuff over in the 'geo wing'.
My schools a private/catholic school and we're not that great
You should see the private/Catholic schools around where I live (outer-west), those stats would be dreamy for those schools... Dux is usually 93-94.
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I disagree Rohitpi, our teachers may not all be great, but for every bad one, theres a good one. That said, the German dept. looks to be in a bad state with both teachers leaving this year.
Also ATAR, we don't just do well because of peer competition, almost everyone in the school is there because they managed to pass some sort of general aptitude test, which indicated they had the ability to do well in the first place.
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I'm pretty sure IMO stands for 'In my opinion.'
That being said...a general aptitude test at Year 8 doesn't really indicate anything and as said before there have been MHS drop-outs and scores of <60. MHS does well because of the peers/private tutoring although yes you're right, a certain level is reached however that level is at Year 8, indicative of nothing.
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I'm pretty sure IMO stands for 'In my opinion.'
That being said...a general aptitude test at Year 8 doesn't really indicate anything and as said before there have been MHS drop-outs and scores of <60. MHS does well because of the peers/private tutoring although yes you're right, a certain level is reached however that level is at Year 8, indicative of nothing.
As one of my English teachers said at MHS, just because it's an opinion doesn't mean it can't be wrong. If you're going to chuck an opinion out there, be prepared for it to be challenged - slapping an 'IMO' on it doesn't change anything. Quite similar to the 'no offense but...' kinda situation.
Anyway, I think it's really a variety of factors. As Burberry has pointed out, our best subjects are probably Commerce-related and Geography. I really don't think people are getting tutoring in these... And although the majority are doing the Asian 5 and getting tutoring for it, compare those that do tutoring in MHS to those that do tutoring elsewhere and the discrepancy in scores is huge. The small number of drop-outs and stuff are just outliers and is bound to happen. I don't think you can disprove the entire thing through that alone. No test is perfect, but I'm quite sure that the act of siphoning many of the top students through the aptitude test does make a huge difference. VCE isn't just a game of how hard you study during it - there is sadly a part of natural talent in it and I'm sure you'll work that out once you start it.
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I'm pretty sure IMO stands for 'In my opinion.'
That being said...a general aptitude test at Year 8 doesn't really indicate anything and as said before there have been MHS drop-outs and scores of <60. MHS does well because of the peers/private tutoring although yes you're right, a certain level is reached however that level is at Year 8, indicative of nothing.
As one of my English teachers said at MHS, just because it's an opinion doesn't mean it can't be wrong. If you're going to chuck an opinion out there, be prepared for it to be challenged - slapping an 'IMO' on it doesn't change anything. Quite similar to the 'no offense but...' kinda situation.
Anyway, I think it's really a variety of factors. As Burberry has pointed out, our best subjects are probably Commerce-related and Geography. I really don't think people are getting tutoring in these... And although the majority are doing the Asian 5 and getting tutoring for it, compare those that do tutoring in MHS to those that do tutoring elsewhere and the discrepancy in scores is huge. The small number of drop-outs and stuff are just outliers and is bound to happen. I don't think you can disprove the entire thing through that alone. No test is perfect, but I'm quite sure that the act of siphoning many of the top students through the aptitude test does make a huge difference. VCE isn't just a game of how hard you study during it - there is sadly a part of natural talent in it and I'm sure you'll work that out once you start it.
Fair enough but out of all the so called 'not-so-perfect dodgy' tests (UMAT, GAMSAT, MHS Exam etc) don't you think this entrance exam is a bit fail? A 15-minute essay (times 2) is meant to indicate a Year 8's English talent? I mean all the training places I went to basically said "you have to write 2 pages, one is too less". It became more quantity > quality. And these 'outliers' aren't merely outliers, there's plenty in the bracket of 70-90 (not offending anyone but for a 'select entry school' that's low). I still think MHS performs as it does because the students push each other a lot. And yeah, so I've heard, hard work doesn't get rewarded in VCE.
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I still think MHS performs as it does because the students push each other a lot.
Wouldn't this be a good thing to have in a school? If my school were to have this kind of vibe, there would be in no doubt, far better outcomes for the school as a whole.
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I still think MHS performs as it does because the students push each other a lot.
Wouldn't this be a good thing to have in a school? If my school were to have this kind of vibe, there would be in no doubt, far better outcomes for the school as a whole.
It's a great thing! - when did I say it wasn't? I was merely pointing out the misconception that the teachers are good because they are far from it (as indicated by Rohitpi predominately). You have ~1200 'academically able' (as determined by the exam which I don't like) students in the same school, it is highly beneficial.
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I'm pretty sure IMO stands for 'In my opinion.'
That being said...a general aptitude test at Year 8 doesn't really indicate anything and as said before there have been MHS drop-outs and scores of <60. MHS does well because of the peers/private tutoring although yes you're right, a certain level is reached however that level is at Year 8, indicative of nothing.
As one of my English teachers said at MHS, just because it's an opinion doesn't mean it can't be wrong. If you're going to chuck an opinion out there, be prepared for it to be challenged - slapping an 'IMO' on it doesn't change anything. Quite similar to the 'no offense but...' kinda situation.
Anyway, I think it's really a variety of factors. As Burberry has pointed out, our best subjects are probably Commerce-related and Geography. I really don't think people are getting tutoring in these... And although the majority are doing the Asian 5 and getting tutoring for it, compare those that do tutoring in MHS to those that do tutoring elsewhere and the discrepancy in scores is huge. The small number of drop-outs and stuff are just outliers and is bound to happen. I don't think you can disprove the entire thing through that alone. No test is perfect, but I'm quite sure that the act of siphoning many of the top students through the aptitude test does make a huge difference. VCE isn't just a game of how hard you study during it - there is sadly a part of natural talent in it and I'm sure you'll work that out once you start it.
Fair enough but out of all the so called 'not-so-perfect dodgy' tests (UMAT, GAMSAT, MHS Exam etc) don't you think this entrance exam is a bit fail? A 15-minute essay (times 2) is meant to indicate a Year 8's English talent? I mean all the training places I went to basically said "you have to write 2 pages, one is too less". It became more quantity > quality. And these 'outliers' aren't merely outliers, there's plenty in the bracket of 70-90 (not offending anyone but for a 'select entry school' that's low). I still think MHS performs as it does because the students push each other a lot. And yeah, so I've heard, hard work doesn't get rewarded in VCE.
Have you considered that having a 70-90 as an 'outlier' is often actually considered freaking good at another school? This just shows that the test does something if even our 'outliers' are doing quite well relatively. And yeh, I don't believe the exam is as accurate as it could be. But that doesn't mean it doesn't have any effect.
I still think MHS performs as it does because the students push each other a lot.
I agree with that point as well but didn't state it because I already thought we were mutual on the benefits of that. I only disagree with your point previously regarding that tuition is the main factor when clearly there's a discrepancy between those who get tuition in MHS and those elsewhere.
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I did explicitly state that a 70-90 at a 'select-entry' school is low but in the larger scale of things, yes it's "freaking good". And yes, the test does 'something', I was merely implying it doesn't do 'enough' in selecting 'select' students.
I think there's a misinterpretation. I'm not saying MHS kids do well just because of students/tutor, I'm saying it's because of these two factors (students moreso and I concede also due to natural talent) - not teachers, because this all arose since people think MHS has all good teachers.
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I think there's a misinterpretation. I'm not saying MHS kids do well just because of students/tutor, I'm saying it's because of these two factors (students moreso and I concede also due to natural talent) - not teachers, because this all arose since people think MHS has all good teachers.
Fair enough - it's just that your earlier post made it sound otherwise. It really is a combination of factors and I just found it strange that you seemed to think that the test didn't play a part in all of this. But yes, teachers definitely do not (well, does some of the time but usually not).
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I almost didn't get into MHS, thank god for discretion.
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One of the 2010 MacRob 99.95-ers got in through principal's discretion.
Seems like you're following the trend :P
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One of the 2010 MacRob 99.95-ers got in through principal's discretion.
Seems like you're following the trend :P
:o :o
MHS will be ecstatic that they let him in.
Burberry, change your name to 99.95_for_sure. This time, it won't actually be a.. misleading hoax. ;D
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Ha I've done enough in yr 9,10 and 11 for them to know its not a mistake.
But seriously, anyone who thinks I have a perfect score in the bag is severely disillusioned - though I am flattered. My subject choices and past performance in school and those subjects shows proves that 99+ will be an effort. So thanks but no need to go overboard :)
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The school captain of MGS got a 99.95 with ALL humanities subjects, NO maths/sciences whatsoever.
You've got Methods and Chemistry and the rest humanities.. you'll do fine. ;)
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MHS might be selective but they're still public and thus don't have the incentives that private schools offer.
Third'd. From what I hear, MacRob has the same sort of problem on the whole.
Confirmed. I've heard some teachers who've used teaching at a selective school for a year as a stepping stone to move to private schools.
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MHS might be selective but they're still public and thus don't have the incentives that private schools offer.
Third'd. From what I hear, MacRob has the same sort of problem on the whole.
Confirmed. I've heard some teachers who've used teaching at a selective school for a year as a stepping stone to move to private schools.
Funny that.. a relatively young Biology teacher (in her 20s) taught at my school (public school) for a year and then got a job at Haileybury.
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MHS might be selective but they're still public and thus don't have the incentives that private schools offer.
Third'd. From what I hear, MacRob has the same sort of problem on the whole.
Confirmed. I've heard some teachers who've used teaching at a selective school for a year as a stepping stone to move to private schools.
Funny that.. a relatively young Biology teacher (in her 20s) taught at my school (public school) for a year and then got a job at Haileybury.
Haha, a young(ish) science teacher moved from Haileybury to Mac.Rob, too. I think she's a chem/bio teacher. :D
Yeah, there's definitely a few teachers that have left macrob went on to teach in private schools. We have a mix of really great, really horrible and average teachers just like any other public school, I think the entrance exams do play a large part in the success of selective schools. :D
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Is her name Ms Ellis?
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Is her name Ms Ellis?
Nope. I think it's a different one, since the teacher you know moved into Haileybury, and the one I know moved out. :P
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my school, is a private school and i wouldnt say it is really good.
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MHS might be selective but they're still public and thus don't have the incentives that private schools offer.
Third'd. From what I hear, MacRob has the same sort of problem on the whole.
Confirmed. I've heard some teachers who've used teaching at a selective school for a year as a stepping stone to move to private schools.
Funny that.. a relatively young Biology teacher (in her 20s) taught at my school (public school) for a year and then got a job at Haileybury.
Haha, a young(ish) science teacher moved from Haileybury to Mac.Rob, too. I think she's a chem/bio teacher. :D
Yeah, there's definitely a few teachers that have left macrob went on to teach in private schools. We have a mix of really great, really horrible and average teachers just like any other public school, I think the entrance exams do play a large part in the success of selective schools. :D
Haha, the same can be said about the other youngish science teacher who moved from ruyton girls to Mac.Rob and teaches bio/chem and general science.
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One of the 2010 MacRob 99.95-ers got in through principal's discretion.
Seems like you're following the trend :P
Heh, I got let in second round as well. Got cut out by the 3% rule.
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MHS might be selective but they're still public and thus don't have the incentives that private schools offer.
Third'd. From what I hear, MacRob has the same sort of problem on the whole.
Confirmed. I've heard some teachers who've used teaching at a selective school for a year as a stepping stone to move to private schools.
Funny that.. a relatively young Biology teacher (in her 20s) taught at my school (public school) for a year and then got a job at Haileybury.
Haha, a young(ish) science teacher moved from Haileybury to Mac.Rob, too. I think she's a chem/bio teacher. :D
Yeah, there's definitely a few teachers that have left macrob went on to teach in private schools. We have a mix of really great, really horrible and average teachers just like any other public school, I think the entrance exams do play a large part in the success of selective schools. :D
of course ...
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I did explicitly state that a 70-90 at a 'select-entry' school is low but in the larger scale of things, yes it's "freaking good". And yes, the test does 'something', I was merely implying it doesn't do 'enough' in selecting 'select' students.
I think there's a misinterpretation. I'm not saying MHS kids do well just because of students/tutor, I'm saying it's because of these two factors (students moreso and I concede also due to natural talent) - not teachers, because this all arose since people think MHS has all good teachers.
What natural talent is involved in the selection process?
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I did explicitly state that a 70-90 at a 'select-entry' school is low but in the larger scale of things, yes it's "freaking good". And yes, the test does 'something', I was merely implying it doesn't do 'enough' in selecting 'select' students.
I think there's a misinterpretation. I'm not saying MHS kids do well just because of students/tutor, I'm saying it's because of these two factors (students moreso and I concede also due to natural talent) - not teachers, because this all arose since people think MHS has all good teachers.
What natural talent is involved in the selection process?
Lol? MHS kids do well in their VCE - I didn't mention natural talent with the selection process.
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I go to a private rural school, and copied from the website:
99+ 5 students 4.54% in top 1% of the State
95+ 19 students 17.27% in top 5% of the State
90+ 39 students 35.45% in top 10% of the State
80+ 72 students 65.45% in top 20% of the State
70+ 87 students 79.10% in top 30% of the State
60+ 100 students 90.91% in top 40% of the State
50+ 107 students 97.27% in top 50% of State
And we had 110 kids, so we had three below 50. Pretty decent though, 35% in the top 10%.. Especially for a non-selective school..
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I go to a private rural school, and copied from the website:
99+ 5 students 4.54% in top 1% of the State
95+ 19 students 17.27% in top 5% of the State
90+ 39 students 35.45% in top 10% of the State
80+ 72 students 65.45% in top 20% of the State
70+ 87 students 79.10% in top 30% of the State
60+ 100 students 90.91% in top 40% of the State
50+ 107 students 97.27% in top 50% of State
And we had 110 kids, so we had three below 50. Pretty decent though, 35% in the top 10%.. Especially for a non-selective school..
That certainly is impressive.
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Stefan Martin is a nobody.
Luke Ball pulled off a 98.8 and got 2nd pick in a draft. That's somewhat impressive.
As you were saying?
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As you were saying?
Did you notice that message is more than 5 years old? XD