ATAR Notes: Forum
Archived Discussion => VTAC Offers => Results Discussion => Victoria => 2011 => Topic started by: dimi_88 on January 19, 2011, 12:35:43 am
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hey guys, got a couple of quick questions for anyone doing medicine this year. would really help me out if i got some advice!
i got a couple of offers to do medicine (from monash and queensland uni) but i'm not sure at all that it's the right career for me. i never realllly wanted to do it - i only took the umat because my friends were, and i thought 'just in case'. when i was doing my preferences i thought i'd put it down, again, because my friends were and it's such a prestigious course. i never thought i'd get offers.
and now somehow i've got the chance to do it this year, but i'm not sure whether i should if it's not something i'm 100% sure of. is it ok to go into medicine like that? do many people kinda try it to see how they go? i'm not even that smart, i barely studied last year. i'm not super interested in science or anything. i just want a career that will set me up with some nice cars and hot girls ;)
what do you think?
also, this is what my offer from UQ says: In the 13 January offer round you have been offered:
731702 Bachelor of Science/Bachelor of MBBS (Provisional Entry for School Leavers) - full-time - The University of Queensland, St Lucia Campus
Start Month: February 2011
Does this mean i have to do science as well? can't i just go straight to medicine? and is UQ better or worse than monash?
thanks so much if anyone has the time to answer my stupid questions!
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Wow, most people do medicine because they genuinely have an interest in helping other people. The average medical practitioner doesn't make so much to the point that women will flock to you. I think you should perhaps follow your heart, study commerce or something if you would like money and cars.
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This is not an uncommon case. A lot of students are pressured by parents (I'm thinking of that Chinese mum article) and are almost forced into medicine as if it's the only option. They've never really had the option of another course and because of this they are never really sure whether medicine is what they want or whether it's been pushed on them. In your case it's sort of your friends, but I think it's pretty similar.
However, despite this pressure, I've found that (from the people I've talked to) they immensely enjoy the course and what it offers to both society and themselves (yes...money). It is an extremely rewarding course if you can put in the effort so unless you really have a strong objection to it, or you have a strong passion for something else, I'd say it's worth giving it a shot...just remember that very many others have tried very hard and wish to be in your position, so don't muck around with it.
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EDIT: I disagree with Pixon, don't just give it a go.. It's ridiculously silly.. People who follow their parents pressures, refusing to make their own choices, really aren't living life properly. Do what YOU want to do!
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Dimi; Sorry, but if you want "nice cars" and "hot girls" medicine is probably not for you.. You will be working very hard for a long time and wont be making a decent amount of money for ages.. 6 years uni (UQ) + internship + residency + specialist training = 7+ years added, etc.. Constant exams, lots of pressure/stress..
You will probably not like medicine if you don't want to do it and may have a terrible life, or it could just be ok, but there would be something else you want to do more so dont settle for "OK" just yet - you are young. Also medicine is a life choice not just a job, it will consume you and make you not have time for getting "hot girls".
Go with something you like.. not medicine, please.. Go live life with your passion, medicine is clearly not for you.
UQ is not better OR worse than monash, it's just as good. You do have to do the 2 years undergrad science before you start medicine (a grad course) at UQ which is 4 years afterwards - its how the course is.
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Have a think about what you want to do. What kind of scores did you get for each of your VCE subjects? If you're not passionate about something from the get-go, chances are you won't reach the same level of success as you would've achieved had you done something you actually enjoyed. Whilst everyone will make at least one or two career changes in their lifetime, you are making a serious long-term-ish commitment right now. Doing something for the money will get you pretty much nowhere, in my eyes. Succeeding in life, as philosophical as this may sound, comes from one's innate passion - passion that has, in no way, been impacted by peers, parents or any other pressures.
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dont accept monash med if u dont want to do it. i have best friends who were distraught to miss out on medicine. so oiut of respect ot the hundreds of poor students like them, dont waste an opportunity someone else may hold so much more dear than yourslef.
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EDIT: I disagree with Pixon, don't just give it a go.. It's ridiculously silly.. People who follow their parents pressures, refusing to make their own choices, really aren't living life properly. Do what YOU want to do!
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Dimi; Sorry, but if you want "nice cars" and "hot girls" medicine is probably not for you.. You will be working very hard for a long time and wont be making a decent amount of money for ages.. 6 years uni (UQ) + internship + residency + specialist training = 7+ years added, etc.. Constant exams, lots of pressure/stress..
You will probably not like medicine if you don't want to do it and may have a terrible life, or it could just be ok, but there would be something else you want to do more so dont settle for "OK" just yet - you are young. Also medicine is a life choice not just a job, it will consume you and make you not have time for getting "hot girls".
Go with something you like.. not medicine, please.. Go live life with your passion, medicine is clearly not for you.
UQ is not better OR worse than monash, it's just as good. You do have to do the 2 years undergrad science before you start medicine (a grad course) at UQ which is 4 years afterwards - its how the course is.
Yeh...I actually agree with you. But it appears his passions are "nice cars and hot girls". Although I still stand by the fact that it might be something he/she could really come to enjoy as I have seen with other students. And the thing is, if you've been pressured to think in a certain way by your parents, you wouldn't really be sure of what you truly enjoy. Of course, he's thinking about doing it for all the wrong reasons...
dont accept monash med if u dont want to do it. i have best friends who were distraught to miss out on medicine. so oiut of respect ot the hundreds of poor students like them, dont waste an opportunity someone else may hold so much more dear than yourslef.
This.
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LOL Pixon, clearly the OP is a guy. ;D
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LOL Pixon, clearly the OP is a guy. ;D
You never know... ;)
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Yeh...I actually agree with you. But it appears his passions are "nice cars and hot girls". Although I still stand by the fact that it might be something he/she could really come to enjoy as I have seen with other students. And the thing is, if you've been pressured to think in a certain way by your parents, you wouldn't really be sure of what you truly enjoy. Of course, he's thinking about doing it for all the wrong reasons...
Yeah that is true, except I still think it's better for someone who hasn't had the opportunity to find out what they want to do, to actually explore their options more, do a more broad degree find what interests them. Rather then medicine which offers very little chance to explore anything but medicine, and then they are stuck in, and will be very unlikely to change since dont know anything else. Clearly the OP is capable of doing med academically, so if they did actually decide med after an undergrad degree, im sure they will be able to get into postgrad.. At least then they are more sure, and more mature to handle the stresses of med, and probably also not as materialistic..
LOL Pixon, clearly the OP is a guy. ;D
You never know... ;)
hahaha
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Clearly the OP is interested in nothing more than picking up, so I will prescribe him 1 x Bachelor of Arts.
You can have a different girlfriend in each subject!
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Alternatively, he can do Arts follow by MBBS at UQ. :(
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This may not be anything to go by, but I actually know two med students that didn't go into it knowing that it was what they wanted to do.
One of them is doing it because his father's a gp and it's what his father wanted him to do. He (my friend) likes some aspects of the course, but still thinks that he would have preferred to do psychology. Overall though, he seems to have developed more of a liking as the course has progressed.
The other person just did med cause she could, and didn't really know what she wanted to do. In her first year, she hated it so much that she seemed to be constantly on the edge of having nervous breakdown - lots of crying and complaining. But after the second year she actually started to really like the course. Now she's really into, and I couldn't imagine her doing anything else.
They're both very much "people persons" though (which I think makes a massive difference), and I'm sure this isn't the case for all people that go into med not knowing that it's what they want.
There's much easier paths to getting hot girls and fast cars though.
Oh and as far a living goes Melbourne > Brisbane by far.
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Clearly the OP is interested in nothing more than picking up, so I will prescribe him 1 x Bachelor of Arts.
You can have a different girlfriend in each subject!
http://vicbar-school.com.au/
This.
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I'm doing MBSS for fun too..
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Do Medicine.
95% of other applicants don't do it for the right reason, so frankly I don't care if you don't either. If you're successful at what you do, you're successful. If you think you can translate your VCE success into success in MBBS, I don't see why you shouldn't do it.
You will also get ideally one awesome car, and a hot girl with an arts degree with no career direction; but probably a bit further down the track.
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As many people have pointed out above, if you aren't sure you want to do medicine, don't do it. Medicine is a comparatively narrow degree compared to BA or BSc, if you don't really know what you want to do, doing a narrow course like medicine wont help you decide anymore. Do a much more general degree and who knows you might just discover something you really have a passion for.
Going into any degree saying things like "i never realllly wanted to do it" certainly isn't a recipe for success academically and can't really be counted as a win in fulfilling your personal dreams and giving you high career satisfaction. Philosophically, doing something you don't like for the rest of your life will leave you feeling very unfulfilled and it could even slowly wear you down.
As the bon jovi song says: "It's your life its now or never, you ain't gonna live for ever, live while you're alive, its *your* life." I think this holds very true for situations like this, you only live once and while you can change career paths later and all that do you really want to waste a decent chunk of your life doing something that you don't really like where you could be doing something you really enjoy. Sure, it may pay off (medicine is attracting less respect and the pay isnt as good as it used to be considering insurance and things like that too, according to an online doctors forum anyway) but if you're getting all that money and possessions you take joy out of from a career you really don't like its a futile exercise.
If you want easy money with much less stress but still some respect or prestiege maybe dentistry might be your thing but as you said "i'm not super interested in science or anything." Thats generally not something someone who is heading into the medical field should be feeling, you shouldn't really do something like medicine unless you like/can tolerate the science behind it. Commerce or law may also be your thing.
I think the best idea in this situation is to take a more general degree and take time to explore your interests and then pursue them.
There are many people out there who truely really want to do med and would give it their all 110%, i know whilst you may of gotten a higher score than them just based on the previous statement it would be better to let the spot go to someone who truly wants it while you take time out to find what you really want.
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I know at JCU that the first three years of its medical program is pretty much a more advanced science degree...
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Do Medicine.
95% of other applicants don't do it for the right reason, so frankly I don't care if you don't either. If you're successful at what you do, you're successful. If you think you can translate your VCE success into success in MBBS, I don't see why you shouldn't do it.
I agree with this. Start the degree. If you drop out after 1st year, no harm done and you can transfer to a Commerce degree or a Science degree or an Arts degree. You're at the stage of your life where one year either way doesn't matter much. Medicine is not always the brutal grind everyone makes it out to be, it won't kill you before you find out if you want to stick with it or not.
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I also agree with do Medicine.
I mean, if you're not interested in anything else, why not do the degree that guarantees you a job? If you hate it so much after one year, transferring is pretty easy.
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wtf werdna...
Half the people doing med won't be doing it for entirely noble reasons, so you won't be alone. It's not going to really hurt to try it out - but I will say that medicine, IMO is something people know whether they want to do it or not, unlike other careers.
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As many people have pointed out above, if you aren't sure you want to do medicine, don't do it. Medicine is a comparatively narrow degree compared to BA or BSc, if you don't really know what you want to do, doing a narrow course like medicine wont help you decide anymore. Do a much more general degree and who knows you might just discover something you really have a passion for.
Going into any degree saying things like "i never realllly wanted to do it" certainly isn't a recipe for success academically and can't really be counted as a win in fulfilling your personal dreams and giving you high career satisfaction. Philosophically, doing something you don't like for the rest of your life will leave you feeling very unfulfilled and it could even slowly wear you down.
As the bon jovi song says: "It's your life its now or never, you ain't gonna live for ever, live while you're alive, its *your* life." I think this holds very true for situations like this, you only live once and while you can change career paths later and all that do you really want to waste a decent chunk of your life doing something that you don't really like where you could be doing something you really enjoy. Sure, it may pay off (medicine is attracting less respect and the pay isnt as good as it used to be considering insurance and things like that too, according to an online doctors forum anyway) but if you're getting all that money and possessions you take joy out of from a career you really don't like its a futile exercise.
If you want easy money with much less stress but still some respect or prestiege maybe dentistry might be your thing but as you said "i'm not super interested in science or anything." Thats generally not something someone who is heading into the medical field should be feeling, you shouldn't really do something like medicine unless you like/can tolerate the science behind it. Commerce or law may also be your thing.
I think the best idea in this situation is to take a more general degree and take time to explore your interests and then pursue them.
There are many people out there who truely really want to do med and would give it their all 110%, i know whilst you may of gotten a higher score than them just based on the previous statement it would be better to let the spot go to someone who truly wants it while you take time out to find what you really want.
This post has a lot of sense in it that many people forget in the world of today.
I also agree with the part in that general degrees are good for people who are unsure of what option or career path they want to go down.
This is why I am looking at one along with many of my friends as they know that if they aren't too fond of a subject in the arts/science/commerce course they can choose not to major in it whereas as if someone was to something completely dedicated to that they would have little option to change the course completely or stick with it and completely hate on it.
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I also agree with do Medicine.
I mean, if you're not interested in anything else, why not do the degree that guarantees you a job? If you hate it so much after one year, transferring is pretty easy.
I agree. Just try it out and maybe you'll like it? I mean if you don't try it and later in life figure out you want to do it, it may not be that easy to get into it anymore..
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Hmm.. good points there guys. This is very true - it's bloody hard to get into Med, and if the OP got in without any passion or commitment to do so, imagine how successful they would be if they actually come to enjoy the course and therefore develop a strong passion for it? I've changed my mind.. just give the course a try ;).
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In terms of undergraduate medicine, I simply think that though many want to do medicine, not many are willing to accept that they are not 'intelligent' and that feel it's hard to do well on the UMAT. It's not hard at all, if you are are 'intelligent' you will be offered a place in medicine due to your high UMAT score. If you are not 'intelligent' like 93% of the people are deemed by Monash, you will find it sooooooo hard, your studying will come to little avail.
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In terms of undergraduate medicine, I simply think that though many want to do medicine, not many are willing to accept that they are not 'intelligent' and that feel it's hard to do well on the UMAT. It's not hard at all, if you are are 'intelligent' you will be offered a place in medicine due to your high UMAT score. If you are not 'intelligent' like 93% of the people are deemed by Monash, you will find it sooooooo hard, your studying will come to little avail.
Are you speaking from experience? (have you even done the UMAT?) That is an outrageous generalisation to make. Several 'intelligent' members on this forum (for eg - stonecold (99.85) ) got owned by the UMAT - does this mean they are not 'intelligent' ?
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In terms of undergraduate medicine, I simply think that though many want to do medicine, not many are willing to accept that they are not 'intelligent' and that feel it's hard to do well on the UMAT. It's not hard at all, if you are are 'intelligent' you will be offered a place in medicine due to your high UMAT score. If you are not 'intelligent' like 93% of the people are deemed by Monash, you will find it sooooooo hard, your studying will come to little avail.
Are you speaking from experience? (have you even done the UMAT?) That is an outrageous generalisation to make. Several 'intelligent' members on this forum (for eg - stonecold (99.85) ) got owned by the UMAT - does this mean they are not 'intelligent' ?
99.85 doesn't mean absolutely anything about his intelligence. A 99.95 can be achieved someone of low intelligence. I have discussed the UMAT extensively with many people, I myself will be sitting the UMAT next year. All medical schools clearly state they are looking for intelligent and empathetic doctors. This is what the UMAT aims to find, if you are not naturally intelligent and empathetic, there isn't much you can do. This is why is seems soooo hard to get into medicine.
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It's not hard at all.
Please back this up. Right now, it seems like nonsense.
99.85 doesn't mean absolutely anything about his intelligence. A 99.95 can be achieved someone of low intelligence.
How denigrating.. of course at least a hint of intelligence was required for these students to gain such high scores. But if it wasn't intelligence, then it must've been an immense level of dedication and hard work. Please give these students some credit.
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A 99.95 can be achieved someone of low intelligence.
Um...okay then. I look forward to seeing your ATAR (if its not 99.95 then you have less then low intelligence)
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It's not hard at all.
Please back this up. Right now, it seems like nonsense.
99.85 doesn't mean absolutely anything about his intelligence. A 99.95 can be achieved someone of low intelligence.
How denigrating.. of course at least a hint of intelligence was required for these students to gain such high scores. But if it wasn't intelligence, then it must've been an immense level of dedication and hard work. Please give these students some credit.
The University of Queensland doesn't even look at your ATAR in terms of selection if you pass the threshold. For someone who does a LOTE and Specialist Maths, they need an ATAR rank > 94.95, this isn't too hard to achieve. After that, selection is purely on UMAT scores.
The level of difficulty in the conceptual part of VCE is quite low, I've never met anyone who actually doesn't understand the theory. High VCE subject scores are obtained through diligence and eradicating stupid little errors. I think that this has been discussed to death on the forum.
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In terms of undergraduate medicine, I simply think that though many want to do medicine, not many are willing to accept that they are not 'intelligent' and that feel it's hard to do well on the UMAT. It's not hard at all, if you are are 'intelligent' you will be offered a place in medicine due to your high UMAT score. If you are not 'intelligent' like 93% of the people are deemed by Monash, you will find it sooooooo hard, your studying will come to little avail.
What?? Why are there so many people who get low scores one year (eg 70's), but then go on to get in the high 90s the following year? Are they now suddenly intelligent enough to study med after doing 6 months of umat prep?
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Stop getting so offended and look at what he is saying. The UMAT is meant to be like an IQ test I think, which is why those naturally intelligent and perceptive can do well without any tuition, VCE however rewards hard work more than natural intelligence in most cases.
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It's politically incorrect but there's a grain of truth in what he's saying. The UMAT is testing skills that are particularly hard to develop over a short period of time (ie six months). If you've developed them over a lifetime then you're much better placed to succeed, regardless of preparation. Anecdote - I did the ACER booklets and was just under the monash cutoff. I would have been higher but I had outside factors affecting that. That doesn't necessarily make you intelligent though, there are plenty of other factors that are important
fwiw, I know a 99.95 who I don't consider to be particularly intelligent at all and another 99.95 who I think is a brilliant guy
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In terms of undergraduate medicine, I simply think that though many want to do medicine, not many are willing to accept that they are not 'intelligent' and that feel it's hard to do well on the UMAT. It's not hard at all, if you are are 'intelligent' you will be offered a place in medicine due to your high UMAT score. If you are not 'intelligent' like 93% of the people are deemed by Monash, you will find it sooooooo hard, your studying will come to little avail.
What?? Why are there so many people who get low scores one year (eg 70's), but then go on to get in the high 90s the following year? Are they now suddenly intelligent enough to study med after doing 6 months of umat prep?
I have never actually met someone who's done this...
Many people on online forums say this, though I have 10-15 friends who have repeated the UMAT, they all scored similarly apart from one who went down my 15%ile.
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It's politically incorrect but there's a grain of truth in what he's saying. The UMAT is testing skills that are particularly hard to develop over a short period of time (ie six months). If you've developed them over a lifetime then you're much better placed to succeed, regardless of preparation. Anecdote - I did the ACER booklets and was just under the monash cutoff. I would have been higher but I had outside factors affecting that. That doesn't necessarily make you intelligent though, there are plenty of other factors that are important
fwiw, I know a 99.95 who I don't consider to be particularly intelligent at all and another 99.95 who I think is a brilliant guy
As Russ just agreed with me, could the two people who gave me bad karma for stating that a 99.95 can be achieved with little intelligence retract their karma change?
I believe that Russ is a senior member of the forum, I think his remarks give some validity to my statements. I don't wish to be viewed as an incredulous poster with low karma levels. I think your karma change was just a knee-jerk reaction and you should have thought out the statement a little better.
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I don't think anyone should retract a comment just because I disagree with them.
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It's politically incorrect but there's a grain of truth in what he's saying. The UMAT is testing skills that are particularly hard to develop over a short period of time (ie six months). If you've developed them over a lifetime then you're much better placed to succeed, regardless of preparation. Anecdote - I did the ACER booklets and was just under the monash cutoff. I would have been higher but I had outside factors affecting that. That doesn't necessarily make you intelligent though, there are plenty of other factors that are important
fwiw, I know a 99.95 who I don't consider to be particularly intelligent at all and another 99.95 who I think is a brilliant guy
As Russ just agreed with me, could the two people who gave me bad karma for stating that a 99.95 can be achieved with little intelligence retract their karma change?
I believe that Russ is a senior member of the forum, I think his remarks give some validity to my statements.
You should be aware that everyone's opinions and comments are always open to objection on this forum.
Calm down with the karma.. karma can't be added/taken on the same member unless you wait 12 hours.
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I don't think anyone should retract a comment just because I disagree with them.
I agree, though in their giving of bad karma they are not venerating my opinions duly.
I apologise Werdna, this is the last I shall comment on the matter, in any topic. I will express my contentions in the form of personal message in future.
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In terms of undergraduate medicine, I simply think that though many want to do medicine, not many are willing to accept that they are not 'intelligent' and that feel it's hard to do well on the UMAT. It's not hard at all, if you are are 'intelligent' you will be offered a place in medicine due to your high UMAT score. If you are not 'intelligent' like 93% of the people are deemed by Monash, you will find it sooooooo hard, your studying will come to little avail.
What?? Why are there so many people who get low scores one year (eg 70's), but then go on to get in the high 90s the following year? Are they now suddenly intelligent enough to study med after doing 6 months of umat prep?
I have never actually met someone who's done this...
Many people on online forums say this, though I have 10-15 friends who have repeated the UMAT, they all scored similarly apart from one who went down my 15%ile.
I know two people who have done this and are now studying at Monash. One went from 72 to 98..
For many people there are more factors involved than just intelligence when it comes to sitting the UMAT. To say that someone who gets less than 93% is not gonna be able to handle med is pretty ignorant. What about all the country kids that get in with low 80s. They're going to fail right?
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In terms of undergraduate medicine, I simply think that though many want to do medicine, not many are willing to accept that they are not 'intelligent' and that feel it's hard to do well on the UMAT. It's not hard at all, if you are are 'intelligent' you will be offered a place in medicine due to your high UMAT score. If you are not 'intelligent' like 93% of the people are deemed by Monash, you will find it sooooooo hard, your studying will come to little avail.
What?? Why are there so many people who get low scores one year (eg 70's), but then go on to get in the high 90s the following year? Are they now suddenly intelligent enough to study med after doing 6 months of umat prep?
I have never actually met someone who's done this...
Many people on online forums say this, though I have 10-15 friends who have repeated the UMAT, they all scored similarly apart from one who went down my 15%ile.
I know two people who have done this and are now studying at Monash. One went from 72 to 98..
For many people there are more factors involved than just intelligence when it comes to sitting the UMAT. To say that someone who gets less than 93% is not gonna be able to handle med is pretty ignorant. What about all the country kids that get in with low 80s. They're going to fail right?
I did not state that they would be inept as doctors, I never stated they wouldn't cope in a medical degree. I was merely talking about the selection process and how hard it is to gain undergraduate admission. I never stated anything explicitly or implicitly about what it takes to be a good doctor. The original discussion was prompted by the remark, ' as it's so hard to get into medicine'.
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In terms of undergraduate medicine, I simply think that though many want to do medicine, not many are willing to accept that they are not 'intelligent' and that feel it's hard to do well on the UMAT. It's not hard at all, if you are are 'intelligent' you will be offered a place in medicine due to your high UMAT score. If you are not 'intelligent' like 93% of the people are deemed by Monash, you will find it sooooooo hard, your studying will come to little avail.
What?? Why are there so many people who get low scores one year (eg 70's), but then go on to get in the high 90s the following year? Are they now suddenly intelligent enough to study med after doing 6 months of umat prep?
I have never actually met someone who's done this...
Many people on online forums say this, though I have 10-15 friends who have repeated the UMAT, they all scored similarly apart from one who went down my 15%ile.
I know two people who have done this and are now studying at Monash. One went from 72 to 98..
For many people there are more factors involved than just intelligence when it comes to sitting the UMAT. To say that someone who gets less than 93% is not gonna be able to handle med is pretty ignorant. What about all the country kids that get in with low 80s. They're going to fail right?
I did not state that they would be inept as doctors. I was merely talking about the selection process and how hard is what to gain undergraduate admission. I never stated anything explicitly or implicitly about what it takes to be a good doctor.
"If you are not 'intelligent' like 93% of the people are deemed by Monash, you will find it sooooooo hard, your studying will come to little avail."
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In terms of undergraduate medicine, I simply think that though many want to do medicine, not many are willing to accept that they are not 'intelligent' and that feel it's hard to do well on the UMAT. It's not hard at all, if you are are 'intelligent' you will be offered a place in medicine due to your high UMAT score. If you are not 'intelligent' like 93% of the people are deemed by Monash, you will find it sooooooo hard, your studying will come to little avail.
What?? Why are there so many people who get low scores one year (eg 70's), but then go on to get in the high 90s the following year? Are they now suddenly intelligent enough to study med after doing 6 months of umat prep?
I have never actually met someone who's done this...
Many people on online forums say this, though I have 10-15 friends who have repeated the UMAT, they all scored similarly apart from one who went down my 15%ile.
I know two people who have done this and are now studying at Monash. One went from 72 to 98..
For many people there are more factors involved than just intelligence when it comes to sitting the UMAT. To say that someone who gets less than 93% is not gonna be able to handle med is pretty ignorant. What about all the country kids that get in with low 80s. They're going to fail right?
I did not state that they would be inept as doctors. I was merely talking about the selection process and how hard is what to gain undergraduate admission. I never stated anything explicitly or implicitly about what it takes to be a good doctor.
"If you are not 'intelligent' like 93% of the people are deemed by Monash, you will find it sooooooo hard, your studying will come to little avail."
We are discussing the topic of gaining admission to medicine, studying will come to little avail upon attempting admission to medicine. Obviously that's why I made the '93%' remark, I was speaking about the UMAT. As I have already explained to you how ATAR wise you can pass the hurdle of 94.95 easily if you apply yourself. The UMAT is the determinant when deciding who receives a place in medicine.
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The UMAT is the determinant when deciding who receives a place in medicine.
I'm pretty sure the UMAT is determinant in deciding whether you get an interview thus the interview is more determinant when deciding who receives a place in medicine (I know of a 99.6, 98%le UMAT - didn't get MBBS)
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The UMAT is the determinant when deciding who receives a place in medicine.
I'm pretty sure the UMAT is determinant in deciding whether you get an interview thus the interview is more determinant when deciding who receives a place in medicine (I know of a 99.6, 98%le UMAT - didn't get MBBS)
University of Queensland doesn't use interview. If we are going to discuss the difficulty of admission into medicine, we should discuss the easiest way in possible.
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Let's get back to the topic at hand.
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The UMAT is the determinant when deciding who receives a place in medicine.
I'm pretty sure the UMAT is determinant in deciding whether you get an interview thus the interview is more determinant when deciding who receives a place in medicine (I know of a 99.6, 98%le UMAT - didn't get MBBS)
University of Queensland doesn't use interview. If we are going to discuss the difficulty of admission into medicine, we should discuss the easiest way in possible.
Hmm okay, I was obviously talking MBBS @Monash which seems to the primary aim of most candidates.
Let's get back to the topic at hand.
+1. IMO the OP should take up MBBS as stated and then transfer if necessary - it's a golden opportunity that others would die to have!
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The UMAT is the determinant when deciding who receives a place in medicine.
I'm pretty sure the UMAT is determinant in deciding whether you get an interview thus the interview is more determinant when deciding who receives a place in medicine (I know of a 99.6, 98%le UMAT - didn't get MBBS)
University of Queensland doesn't use interview. If we are going to discuss the difficulty of admission into medicine, we should discuss the easiest way in possible.
Hmm okay, I was obviously talking MBBS @Monash which seems to the primary aim of most candidates.
I'd think the goal is to get into medicine for most people who truly want to study medicine.
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It's nice and easy to say that >94.95 isn't hard to achieve. But for many people, even if they work hard in class and at home whilst balancing out their social life, it just doesn't come easy for them. As for the part about UMAT not being hard at all if you're intelligent, that's just way too shallow. Way too shallow. Consider some factors like stress, time management, thought processes (e.g. if you take things literally or not, regardless of your intelligence) etc. They are a SIGNIFICANT attribute to the UMAT and even intelligent people can get screwed over by that.
Whilst diligence and motivation to constantly study to iron out the little errors that are crucial for a high ATAR score, how much depends on many factors too such as intelligence (or rather, one's ability to understand the concepts well enough to make less errors), use of their spare time (efficiency), their motivation and the list goes on. For a naturally unintelligent student, sure they have the ability to get a 99.95; everyone does. But the time they need to spend on ironing out those mistakes takes a significant portion of their time that affects not only their social life but their motivation, and that starts to snowball. It's not easy. I give my congratulations to those that achieve high scores, whether they're naturally smart or whether they worked hard all year; either way most of them deserve it.
Now can we get back onto the main topic please? This is going mostly off-topic.
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Whilst my heart says for the OP not to take it since I am aiming for Medicine myself, a prospect that's extremely difficult for me, I'd recommend you take it. The reason why I say that is, although the OP lacks the passion some people have for medicine, it is an extremely good opportunity for him. Whilst I also dislike the idea that people with such little passion can get into medicine in the first place, that dislike belongs only with the system and not with the people that are offered it; I can only envy their position. Whilst the 'noble' thing is to reject it in place for another that can hopefully use their passion and succeed in the field, you should take the offer and see whether it is for you. Other courses aren't nearly as hard as medicine to get into if you were to transfer (depending on the course) and to throw it away for the another you don't even personally know isn't the best thing YOU can do for YOURSELF.
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@ OP
I think with all the different options that medicine opens up for you (eg specialisations, research, teaching, being able to travel and work) you've got a pretty good chance that you'll find something that you enjoy by the end of your degree.
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Everyone Bonifacio is just AZNBOY/MBBS/whatever else he wants to be. If you see someone with pretentious vocab, complains about lit or argues stuff to do with med then it's probably him... urghhhhhhhh :knuppel2: If it's not him, then I apologise Bonifacio, but I'm 95% it is YOU!
I think someone who has yet to even do the UMAT let alone finish year 12 shouldn't be saying stuff like that.
IMO intelligence stems from hard work. I admire people who are more hard working than those who are more naturally intelligent. Monash doesn't deem 93% of people unintelligent, they just deem them not suitable to their course due to the results of a MC test.
To the OP, a lot of people would kill to be in your situation. You should feel very lucky you've been offered a place in a course that's so competitive to get into without really even wanting it. I'm not sure if you should take it or not. I understand 10weid's point that out of respect for people who REALLY want it you shouldn't take it, but at the same time you might like it once you try it and you can drop out if you don't and those people who want to be there can take your place anyway.
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what an absolutely ridiculous conversation.
to get a 99.95 one needs both natural intellignece and diligence
and to succeed in the umat one needs proficient critical thinking skills and a high level of emotional awarenss/empathetic reasoning
and to succeed in the interview, onne needs to be communicatively adept and to be able to easily realte to others whilst maintaining a confident and articulate disposition
that is all. there is no more to say on the subject.
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In terms of undergraduate medicine, I simply think that though many want to do medicine, not many are willing to accept that they are not 'intelligent' and that feel it's hard to do well on the UMAT. It's not hard at all, if you are are 'intelligent' you will be offered a place in medicine due to your high UMAT score. If you are not 'intelligent' like 93% of the people are deemed by Monash, you will find it sooooooo hard, your studying will come to little avail.
Are you speaking from experience? (have you even done the UMAT?) That is an outrageous generalisation to make. Several 'intelligent' members on this forum (for eg - stonecold (99.85) ) got owned by the UMAT - does this mean they are not 'intelligent' ?
99.85 doesn't mean absolutely anything about his intelligence. A 99.95 can be achieved someone of low intelligence. I have discussed the UMAT extensively with many people, I myself will be sitting the UMAT next year. All medical schools clearly state they are looking for intelligent and empathetic doctors. This is what the UMAT aims to find, if you are not naturally intelligent and empathetic, there isn't much you can do. This is why is seems soooo hard to get into medicine.
the umat aims to do that, however it doesnt really work. Many of my smartest and most emphathetic friends have not done well in it.
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Everyone Bonifacio is just AZNBOY/MBBS/whatever else he wants to be.
IMO intelligence stems from hard work.
Intelligence stems from hard work? This is the single most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Intelligence is part of your genetic make-up, to suggest you can work hard to change this is absurd.
I do not know why I draw so many comparisons between AsnBoy/MBBS, I have explained to Werdna that I am a new user, he had the same contentions.
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Intelligence is part of your genetic make-up, to suggest you can work hard to change this is absurd.
Rubbish
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lol Bonifacio, it honestly feels like you're borderline trolling. Keep it up, it's a fun read. =)
OP, I'm sure there's enough sound advice in these past four pages to help you decide for yourself.
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Intelligence is part of your genetic make-up, to suggest you can work hard to change this is absurd.
Rubbish
+1 that's what i thought as well.
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Intelligence is part of your genetic make-up, to suggest you can work hard to change this is absurd.
Rubbish
+1 that's what i thought as well.
+2.
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Intelligence is part of your genetic make-up, to suggest you can work hard to change this is absurd.
Rubbish
Are you suggesting you can become more intelligent through hard work?
Can you please elaborate on this point?
I am not disputing it, just curious to hear an alternate perspective.
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Whether or not hard work will specifically increase "intelligence" is moot, the point is that your DNA does not determine it from birth - there is no gene for intelligence.
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From the sounds of it, you are disputing it.. but with regards to your question, through what means would intelligence be measured? How do you know if someone like, Albert Einstein or some other prolific human being, reached their own cap of intelligence? Is there even a maximum amount of intelligence one can garner?
But let's cut to the chase. In the VCE, I would imagine you'd need a combination of everything to succeed - intelligence, yes, but also hard work, dedication, time management, motivation and passion. And IMO, you can become more intelligent through hard work.. this is probably the best way to 'become more intelligent'.
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Whether or not hard work will specifically increase "intelligence" is moot, the point is that your DNA does not determine it from birth - there is no gene for intelligence.
I see, I still think that one cannot increase his/her intelligence through hard work. That was stupid of me to ignorantly say 'intelligence is in your DNA'.
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Whether or not hard work will specifically increase "intelligence" is moot, the point is that your DNA does not determine it from birth - there is no gene for intelligence.
I see, I still think that one cannot increase his/her intelligence through hard work. That was stupid of me to ignorantly say 'intelligence is in your DNA'.
then we wish you the best of luck on your vce studies,
AS WELL as your umat.
:)
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Whether or not hard work will specifically increase "intelligence" is moot, the point is that your DNA does not determine it from birth - there is no gene for intelligence.
I see, I still think that one cannot increase his/her intelligence through hard work. That was stupid of me to ignorantly say 'intelligence is in your DNA'.
Hmmm, how are you defining "intelligence"?
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The pseudo-intellect in this thread is fucking disgusting
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Intelligence is ability to problem solve.
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Intelligence is ability to problem solve.
Oh get real.. and you're saying that it has to be in your genes to 'problem solve'?
If that's the case, I quit school.
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I clearly said earlier that it's not in your genes and that I made a mistake. Doing well in school doesn't require intelligence, it requires knowledge.
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I think it must be a recessive trait, cause a lot of dumb parents seem to have pretty smart kids :D
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Formal definition of intelligence:
the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skill
Knowledge and skill are attained from hard work and learning; i.e. education, school and such.
Note that I'm not taking any sides, just saying what I think.
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Formal definition of intelligence:
the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skill
Knowledge and skill are attained from hard work and learning; i.e. education, school and such.
Exactly.
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the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skill
Knowledge and skill are attained from hard work and learning; i.e. education, school and such.
In that case hard work isn't affecting your ability to acquire those things, just affecting how much of them you have. I still disagree that intelligence is set from birth, there are plenty of environmental factors to consider.
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Formal definition of intelligence:
the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skill
Knowledge and skill are attained from hard work and learning; i.e. education, school and such.
Note that I'm not taking any sides, just saying what I think.
As it states, the ability to acquire knowledge...
Repeating this doesn't make you more intelligent. Intelligence is your ability to learn, not how much you actually do it.
Are you telling me that people in un-educated countries are all dumb?
I do believe that you can change your intelligence level slightly higher or lower depending on how much you use your brain, but you can't go from average to genius or anything.
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To state whether intelligence is absolutely hereditary or environmental is pure retarded. Firstly, people would readily accept that there are biological predispositions to some physical features (height, looks, hair,) as well as some mental disorders, so why exclude intelligence? You would find a great sum of literature dealing with the hereditary of intelligence which explains it far better than I ever would. Look it at from this perspective. Intelligence can be likened to the baking of a pizza. One's natural abilities would be set as the base and the environmental factors act as the topping. One cannot exist without the other and the finished product is dependant on the quality of both ingredients.
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I personally believe that it's nearly all due to environmental influences, and, in most cases, only partly due to biological makeup.
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Well if you want evidence rather than belief here are a couple of sources I (cherry) picked from pubmed/supersearch
No gene has yet been conclusively linked to intelligence
Sternberg, Robert J., Elena L. Grigorenko, and Kenneth K. Kidd. "Intelligence, race, and genetics." The American Psychologist 60.1 (2005): 46+. Expanded Academic ASAP. Web. 19 Jan. 2011.
In the early 21st century, familial studies, including twin studies, supported the theory that genetic variations contribute to differences in cognition, but have been of little practical use to clinical and educational practitioners as no individual predictions can be made using such data; heritability cannot predict the impact of environmental factors or intervention programs.
Genetics and Cognition The Impact for Psychologists in Applied Settings, European psychologist [1016-9040] Carlier yr:2010 vol:15 iss:1 pg:49 -57
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Well if you want evidence rather than belief here are a couple of sources I (cherry) picked from pubmed/supersearch
No gene has yet been conclusively linked to intelligence
Sternberg, Robert J., Elena L. Grigorenko, and Kenneth K. Kidd. "Intelligence, race, and genetics." The American Psychologist 60.1 (2005): 46+. Expanded Academic ASAP. Web. 19 Jan. 2011.
In the early 21st century, familial studies, including twin studies, supported the theory that genetic variations contribute to differences in cognition, but have been of little practical use to clinical and educational practitioners as no individual predictions can be made using such data; heritability cannot predict the impact of environmental factors or intervention programs.
Genetics and Cognition The Impact for Psychologists in Applied Settings, European psychologist [1016-9040] Carlier yr:2010 vol:15 iss:1 pg:49 -57
Can't half tell that you're a uni student.. (:
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hahah, finding obscure citations will become second nature to you!
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I personally believe that it's nearly all due to environmental influences, and, in most cases, only partly due to biological makeup.
This can always be argued, but it's nevertheless a fact (well, a "fact", given that I'm using empirical evidence) that a lot of people who work intensely hard never quite reach the standard of people who do absolutely nothing. I know people who have had tutors in every subject and who worked incredibly hard for school, who did worse in pretty much everything compared to other people who are just naturally gifted, and who have done less work.
In regards to knowledge and skill, I think we're also forgetting that these terms extend beyond academic achievement. I've always seen intelligence as something that transcends the quantifiable: when talking to some people, you just "know" that they're thinking on a higher plane as compared to the majority, because they pick up on things and work things out which most people won't be able to. Think Sherlock Holmes for instance.
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i'm not even that smart, i barely studied last year
Because they totally let dumbasses become future health-care professionals.
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In terms of undergraduate medicine, I simply think that though many want to do medicine, not many are willing to accept that they are not 'intelligent' and that feel it's hard to do well on the UMAT. It's not hard at all, if you are are 'intelligent' you will be offered a place in medicine due to your high UMAT score. If you are not 'intelligent' like 93% of the people are deemed by Monash, you will find it sooooooo hard, your studying will come to little avail.
What?? Why are there so many people who get low scores one year (eg 70's), but then go on to get in the high 90s the following year? Are they now suddenly intelligent enough to study med after doing 6 months of umat prep?
I have never actually met someone who's done this...
Many people on online forums say this, though I have 10-15 friends who have repeated the UMAT, they all scored similarly apart from one who went down my 15%ile.
I know two people who have done this and are now studying at Monash. One went from 72 to 98..
For many people there are more factors involved than just intelligence when it comes to sitting the UMAT. To say that someone who gets less than 93% is not gonna be able to handle med is pretty ignorant. What about all the country kids that get in with low 80s. They're going to fail right?
Well I can tell you right now that I don't think I did crap in the UMAT (78th percentile) because I was naturally going to be bad at it. I scored decent : a 61 for sec 1, a 53 for sec 3 which is awesome for me because I can't do it to save my life, and a shocking 41 for sec 2.
Now, on the ACER test I got 100% for sec 2, and though I know it's easier, people and myself would consider sec 2 to be my best chance of doing well in the UMAT.
So really, I most likely did poorly in the UMAT not because I was crap naturally and did the best that I could, but rather I might have been arrogant/unlucky or just plan weirded out on the day.
So maybe, I could push that UMAT to an 85th percentile if I figured out what went wrong in section 2.
THAT's how people go up 20 percentile points I think.
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OP is a troll.
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I doubt the OP is a troll. Bonifacio is up for debate though
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I heard troll tastes nice.
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In terms of undergraduate medicine, I simply think that though many want to do medicine, not many are willing to accept that they are not 'intelligent' and that feel it's hard to do well on the UMAT. It's not hard at all, if you are are 'intelligent' you will be offered a place in medicine due to your high UMAT score. If you are not 'intelligent' like 93% of the people are deemed by Monash, you will find it sooooooo hard, your studying will come to little avail.
What?? Why are there so many people who get low scores one year (eg 70's), but then go on to get in the high 90s the following year? Are they now suddenly intelligent enough to study med after doing 6 months of umat prep?
I have never actually met someone who's done this...
Many people on online forums say this, though I have 10-15 friends who have repeated the UMAT, they all scored similarly apart from one who went down my 15%ile.
I know two people who have done this and are now studying at Monash. One went from 72 to 98..
For many people there are more factors involved than just intelligence when it comes to sitting the UMAT. To say that someone who gets less than 93% is not gonna be able to handle med is pretty ignorant. What about all the country kids that get in with low 80s. They're going to fail right?
Well I can tell you right now that I don't think I did crap in the UMAT (78th percentile) because I was naturally going to be bad at it. I scored decent : a 61 for sec 1, a 53 for sec 3 which is awesome for me because I can't do it to save my life, and a shocking 41 for sec 2.
Now, on the ACER test I got 100% for sec 2, and though I know it's easier, people and myself would consider sec 2 to be my best chance of doing well in the UMAT.
So really, I most likely did poorly in the UMAT not because I was crap naturally and did the best that I could, but rather I might have been arrogant/unlucky or just plan weirded out on the day.
So maybe, I could push that UMAT to an 85th percentile if I figured out what went wrong in section 2.
THAT's how people go up 20 percentile points I think.
My friend boosted his score mainly by practicing section 3. I also found section 3 to be the easiest section to improve, but I guess it's different for different people.
I actually think that confidence is one of the biggest hindrances for many people.
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If it's all environmental why is my brother such an academic failure?
(That's meant to be a humorous, rhetorical question and not one you need to answer guys. I'm a psychology student).
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I've noticed many people who wish you not to go with med are hoping to get into med as well, which is expected. I made it into med this year - think me naive but it has been my dream, my goal for the last 10 years or so.
Many of those I know who made it into med, or who were hoping to receive an offer, are almost 100% sure they want to do so, and likely will be willing to put the work in to succeed at any cost. If this isn't what you truly want, but instead cars and girls, I don't believe it is the course for you. Not just university, but being a doctor is a lot more than just being naturally intelligent or lucky in the UMAT, so being misinformed is the last thing you want to be when accepting an offer into Medicine. I highly doubt you'll be getting a whole lot of girls, and money won't come until much, MUCH later. (for money, do dentistry!) Also, as others pointed out, many who did not make it in could be bordering on desperate, and it would be somewhat kind of you to reject and let them have the opportunity they so greatly desire.
In my opinion you should not take it and do something you enjoy, especially if you know you will not enjoy being a doctor. But ultimately it's up to you.
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I think that if you are naturally intelligent then you will grasp concepts more quickly and with greater ease, meaning that you can spend less time trying to do so. If you study hard on top of that, this means you have that remaining time to stamp out mistakes, errors, etc that are needed to succeed in exams. For me, I am not naturally smart but I work my ass off - I spent too long trying to understand Physics concepts (which every naturally intelligent person found boring and too EASY to understand), or couldn't comprehend good english essay structure, which meant less time for actual revision or perfecting exam technique. Luck + exam preparation (knowing the layout, structure of the exam) helped me out on UMAT. Hard work can get you far but most likely will not get you the 99.95.
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Quick story I just thought of: this guy my brother was friends with was dux and so did Med and was almost done with his doctorate before he decided he actually hated med.
Now he just blogs.
I'm not even kidding, I don't think he has another profession.
Moral: don't do stuff just because you can or you will waste years of your life.
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Quick story I just thought of: this guy my brother was friends with was dux and so did Med and was almost done with his doctorate before he decided he actually hated med.
Now he just blogs.
I'm not even kidding, I don't think he has another profession.
Moral: don't do stuff just because you can or you will waste years of your life.
he must be a damn good blogger
I think that if you are naturally intelligent then you will grasp concepts more quickly and with greater ease, meaning that you can spend less time trying to do so. If you study hard on top of that, this means you have that remaining time to stamp out mistakes, errors, etc that are needed to succeed in exams. For me, I am not naturally smart but I work my ass off - I spent too long trying to understand Physics concepts (which every naturally intelligent person found boring and too EASY to understand), or couldn't comprehend good english essay structure, which meant less time for actual revision or perfecting exam technique. Luck + exam preparation (knowing the layout, structure of the exam) helped me out on UMAT. Hard work can get you far but most likely will not get you the 99.95.
agree with all of this except the last sentence.......
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I do. I think anything above 48 is really just dependent on luck, and 99.95s are a mixture of hard work but I mean, with the 99.9-99.95 range, there is a discrepancy that usually is just luck. Look at kyzoo, he deserves the .95.
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I do. I think anything above 48 is really just dependent on luck, and 99.95s are a mixture of hard work but I mean, with the 99.9-99.95 range, there is a discrepancy that usually is just luck. Look at kyzoo, he deserves the .95.
i don't think fuzzylogic was luck lol
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OP is a troll.
Agreed. Got what he wanted and left.
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I think it must be a recessive trait, cause a lot of dumb parents seem to have pretty smart kids :D
haha! :D
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OP is a troll.
Agreed. Got what he wanted and left.
Doesn't that prove he's...not a troll rather? If he lingered and caused trouble, well, now that's trolling. His profile says that he's from Xavier. To me, I don't think he's trying to troll; he's just your typical Xavier kid.
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OP is a troll.
Agreed. Got what he wanted and left.
Doesn't that prove he's...not a troll rather? If he lingered and caused trouble, well, now that's trolling. His profile says that he's from Xavier. To me, I don't think he's trying to troll; he's just your typical Xavier kid.
/me can smell a troll-bait in there.. :P
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I do. I think anything above 48 is really just dependent on luck, and 99.95s are a mixture of hard work but I mean, with the 99.9-99.95 range, there is a discrepancy that usually is just luck. Look at kyzoo, he deserves the .95.
Also depends heavily on subject choice. A student who does more LOTEs and is relatively strong in high-scaling subject has a better chance of scoring a highly (IMO) - purely because it is extremely hard to pull a 50 in a subject like Chemistry and Physics, as opposed to say a 35-38 in a language and have it scale 50+
To the OP - I'd to Med. I think that the fact he scored so highly and actually passed the Monash interview process shows he has great potential and possesses certain characteristics which the interviewers were looking for. Who knows, you may really enjoy Medicine, and if you find yourself disliking med you can always transfer out - it is almost impossible to transfer IN to Monash Med in your second year as I think they only look at Y12 applicants/gap yearers.
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I do. I think anything above 48 is really just dependent on luck, and 99.95s are a mixture of hard work but I mean, with the 99.9-99.95 range, there is a discrepancy that usually is just luck. Look at kyzoo, he deserves the .95.
i don't think fuzzylogic was luck lol
of course, but I mean some people who should get 99.95 didn't because of bad luck.
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thanks for the replies everyone! actually very helpful. for what it's worth, i'm not a troll :P i just started this thread the day before leaving on holiday.
when i said i'm not that smart, i meant that i'm not much of an intellectual. i didn't study much at all last year, i essentially beat the system (took some easy subjects, already fluent in a language, etc). so while i'm kinda interested in the career of a doctor, i get the feeling i'm pretty different from most people in the course. and that's where my uncertainty stems from.
and i don't think it's relevant to talk about all the people who really wanted to get into medicine but missed out. i don't think that gives me any less of a 'right' to study it. if i got an offer, i got an offer. that's how i look at it anyway.
and yeah, just for the record i ended up accepting the offer. so thanks again for input.
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and yeah, just for the record i ended up accepting the offer. so thanks again for input.
You made the right choice! ;) You seem far more confident now, which is good to see.
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and also, intelligence is surely the innate ability to apply knowledge to new situations. how good you are at not just learning things, but understanding them. so by learning a lot of things, you don't actually increase your intelligence. you simply get practise at applying different kinds of knowledge.
very different.
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thanks for the replies everyone! actually very helpful. for what it's worth, i'm not a troll :P i just started this thread the day before leaving on holiday.
when i said i'm not that smart, i meant that i'm not much of an intellectual. i didn't study much at all last year, i essentially beat the system (took some easy subjects, already fluent in a language, etc). so while i'm kinda interested in the career of a doctor, i get the feeling i'm pretty different from most people in the course. and that's where my uncertainty stems from.
and i don't think it's relevant to talk about all the people who really wanted to get into medicine but missed out. i don't think that gives me any less of a 'right' to study it. if i got an offer, i got an offer. that's how i look at it anyway.
and yeah, just for the record i ended up accepting the offer. so thanks again for input.
Congratulations - just to clarify, of course you have the right to study it, the posters were just saying that people would kill to get into Medicine and your extremely lucky to get this course! Good luck! :)
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hey guys, got a couple of quick questions for anyone doing medicine this year. would really help me out if i got some advice!
i got a couple of offers to do medicine (from monash and queensland uni) but i'm not sure at all that it's the right career for me. i never realllly wanted to do it - i only took the umat because my friends were, and i thought 'just in case'. when i was doing my preferences i thought i'd put it down, again, because my friends were and it's such a prestigious course. i never thought i'd get offers.
and now somehow i've got the chance to do it this year, but i'm not sure whether i should if it's not something i'm 100% sure of. is it ok to go into medicine like that? do many people kinda try it to see how they go? i'm not even that smart, i barely studied last year. i'm not super interested in science or anything. i just want a career that will set me up with some nice cars and hot girls ;)
what do you think?
also, this is what my offer from UQ says: In the 13 January offer round you have been offered:
731702 Bachelor of Science/Bachelor of MBBS (Provisional Entry for School Leavers) - full-time - The University of Queensland, St Lucia Campus
Start Month: February 2011
Does this mean i have to do science as well? can't i just go straight to medicine? and is UQ better or worse than monash?
thanks so much if anyone has the time to answer my stupid questions!
I faced a similar dilemma because in year 12 I thought of putting down biomedicine because idea of becoming a doctor sounded awesome! I then spoke to my careers counsellor and the first thing he said was why I put down biomedicine and I didn't really have an answer and then he wanted to know whether I was actually passionate about being a doctor or just liked the sound of being one.
I remember when my dad coached a dentist's son in tennis and this one time he came down to the tennis club in a '92 collectors Ferrari. Anyway he took me in it for a drive (never been so scared and excited at the same time) and went on about how once you enter dentistry stuff like this is nothing.
A great movie that differentiates between a 'real' doctor and those pompous idiots our health system is inundated with is called Patch Adams. This probably one of my favorite movies and in my life I probably have only seen one doctor who comes close to Patch.
My nana who was a nurse a while ago told me how some of her coworkers would faint after seeing blood and recommended that people considering entering the medical field gained some practical experience rather than just another exam.
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i get the feeling i'm pretty different from most people in the course. and that's where my uncertainty stems from.
Nah that's pretty much the logic I followed too.
Re: med being a narrow course, I have to say I disagree. You can go into pathology/emergency medicine/surgery/paediatrics... they all have different levels of involvement with people and different focuses. I like to think of medicine being its own arts degree =p
Re: nice cars - go rural enough and the government will give you whatever you like =p
Re: hot girls - at least in med you know if you date from your cohort you'll be dating *smart* hot girls. Plus there will be people that flock to smart guys. Trust me, I went to a girls school.
Re: people saying all that 'live your own life crap' >> don't you think this is a great opportunity to do that? Think about it - is there any country you can't live in, as a doctor? (clearly my intention is to travel =p) Is there any course that won't take you at the drop of a hat after you finish medicine? I think not =p
Besides, if you didn't do it, you'd probably get to a point later in life where you'd regret what would essentially be wasted potential. And then you'd have an inferiority complex (just assuming you have a normal sized ego to begin with)
As well as all that, med has a real community vibe about it. It's nice c:
edit: removed arts degree jib - was uncalled for O-o
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There's plenty of misinformation in that post, be careful with your assumptions there :S
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There's plenty of misinformation in that post, be careful with your assumptions there :S
mine?
edit:
Of course, everything I said is subjective.
To back up what may seem like misinformation: The government offers $750k scholarships for rural doctors in particular fields. I'm not saying 'graduate, go to the middle of nowhere, and they'll give you a ferrari' - there is of course work involved, but there are some great opportunities. Locum doctors also supposedly get a lot. And I have heart surgeon friends in NZ whose gross income is something like 1.5 mil per annum. Just saying.
A *lot* of girls do like smart boys. I think having gone to a girls school, I have a good understand of what girls like in a man =p
THere are of course, many exceptions.
And its true - med does have a lot of variety in it. And if you don't like it, you can leave after two years or something with a bachelor of clinical sciences (??) anyway.
There's no rules that say you can't work part-time and pursue another interest on the side.
I think you should be careful of being persuaded out of it. Usually no-one is as good of a judge of what you should do than yourself, because not many people (usually other than your parents) are as strongly focused on whats best for you.
People tried to persuade me not to do specialist or physics or even bother applying for medicine at all. God knows where that would have gotten me O-o
Anything else there was an issue with?
Just keep in mind, like I said, that it *is* all subjective.
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In regards to the whole intelligence debate:
We had a study-skills speaker come the other week, and most of what he said was a whole bunch of psychological crap. He claimed that 'natural talent doesn't exist' and succeeding in VCE is all about believing in yourself. While this is true to a minute extent, I think that natural intelligence does exist. Whether this is primarily genetic or not, most people at a young age have their intelligence 'foundation' laid... that is why people who are naturally academic usually have been since primary school.
Yes, hard work can always improve scores. But some people can grasp unfamiliar concepts easily, and others can't. That's just the way it is.
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Just for interest's sake, I have a family friend that got 58.xx for his VCE, then recently returned as a mature age student (in his late 20s) and got 99.xx.
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I was "dense" all through primary school. My year seven teacher said she would never have believed that I was even mildly intelligent had she not seen my IQ testing.
It's true though that its not brains - that just gives people more confidence and means they don't work quite as hard sometimes - it's really the people who work hard that get the amazing results.
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that is why people who are naturally academic usually have been since primary school.
for me, it's funny when you say this because I know a lot of people who have done nothing prior to year 12 (prep-year11) and have gotten 95+ enter scores
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that is why people who are naturally academic usually have been since primary school.
for me, it's funny when you say this because I know a lot of people who have done nothing prior to year 12 (prep-year11) and have gotten 95+ enter scores
people have other sources to learn/ gain knowledge from, not just school.