ATAR Notes: Forum
Uni Stuff => Faculties => Law => Topic started by: Oguz on February 25, 2011, 12:17:44 am
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Hey guys I'm currently in year 12 and have planned to study Law for quite a while now. I was just wondering though...what is the most prestigious (or simply the best) way of pursuing studies in Law? I'm currently on the border between Melbourne and Monash and have received various opinions over the past few months. I'm really confused :\ is there anybody out there who has experience in this field or has any idea what I should do? I welcome all opinions. Thank you ;D
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If you get a high enough ENTER, go for Monash. If you choose the Melbourne Model, remember that you'll have to do the LSAT, and you risk not being able to get into law at all.
The LLB and the JD are pretty much exactly the same.
Prestige-wise, the two unis are also fundamentally equal.
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Thanks a lot!
Amongst my twelve preferences Monash Law is at the top anyway (obviously due to the ATAR requirements). Otherwise I'm going to have to stick with Melbourne. 98.55 is the clearly-in I think
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I reckon you may as well go for a double degree - the clearly-in is lower for the doubles like Arts/Law or Commerce/Law.
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Oguz :D
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Na, Oguz is another member from my school. Top bloke and sounds like a professor when he starts reading :D:D
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I reckon you may as well go for a double degree - the clearly-in is lower for the doubles like Arts/Law or Commerce/Law.
yeah how come its like that? i woulda assumed double degrees have a higher atar clearly in.
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I reckon you may as well go for a double degree - the clearly-in is lower for the doubles like Arts/Law or Commerce/Law.
yeah how come its like that? i woulda assumed double degrees have a higher atar clearly in.
Clearly-in scores depend on the demand for a particular course. E.g. a course with a higher demand will have a higher clearly-in ATAR and vice-versa.
Commerce/Law was something like 98.2 this year, whereas Arts/Law was 98.4 (I think)...and you can't get into law straight away at Melbourne, as someone said above.
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I recall reading the effective clearly in for Melbourne JD being 99.90 - It's not a VTAC thing, you still have to go through the Melbourne Model but if you get or above 99.90 you have a guaranteed place without the LSAT. You may want to check that though.
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I recall reading the effective clearly in for Melbourne JD being 99.90 - It's not a VTAC thing, you still have to go through the Melbourne Model but if you get or above 99.90 you have a guaranteed place without the LSAT. You may want to check that though.
99.90 + 70 avg at uni = guaranteed csp place
99.00 + 70 avg at uni = guaranteed full fee place
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Just a quick question about the JD.
Say, hypothetically, I got a 99.90 ATAR (hypothetically). Am I automatically eligible for a guaranteed CSP place or do I have to go through some sort of application to get the guarantee? I'm sure there are applications for it after you do the undergrad, but I'm wondering if there's something you need to do beforehand as well.
And say if I just had Arts at Melbourne Uni as my 1st preference, and I got a 99.90 ATAR, do I just do Arts and when the time comes for the JD I automatically get in?
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Just a quick question about the JD.
Say, hypothetically, I got a 99.90 ATAR (hypothetically). Am I automatically eligible for a guaranteed CSP place or do I have to go through some sort of application to get the guarantee? I'm sure there are applications for it after you do the undergrad, but I'm wondering if there's something you need to do beforehand as well.
And say if I just had Arts at Melbourne Uni as my 1st preference, and I got a 99.90 ATAR, do I just do Arts and when the time comes for the JD I automatically get in?
yes it's automatic but read above as to 70+ avg required
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Just a quick question about the JD.
Say, hypothetically, I got a 99.90 ATAR (hypothetically). Am I automatically eligible for a guaranteed CSP place or do I have to go through some sort of application to get the guarantee? I'm sure there are applications for it after you do the undergrad, but I'm wondering if there's something you need to do beforehand as well.
And say if I just had Arts at Melbourne Uni as my 1st preference, and I got a 99.90 ATAR, do I just do Arts and when the time comes for the JD I automatically get in?
yes it's automatic but read above as to 70+ avg required
It's a bit more than 70, it's 75.
This is from their website:
Commence/will commence an undergraduate course at the University of Melbourne and complete the undergraduate course with a H2A (75%) grade weighted average.
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Melb Law beats Monash Law hands down. In terms of practicality, they isn't much of a difference, both top and medium tier have Monash/Melb students. For accessibility, Monash law is way more realistic and also a lot safer, it whoops Melb's LSAT/postgraduate approach.
But if you are thinking of going internationally to practice law, perhaps Melb JD is more favorable. Its a lot more recognized outside Australia and it carries that prestige Monash doesn't seem to have internationally. From what I know, the country I originally came from leans more towards the UK graduates. Thus, graduating with a Monash Law is perhaps not in my best interest, given that it does not carry the fame and recognition, lets say, Melbourne has.
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^+1.
Well said, even though people say the LLB and JD are basically the same, internationally Melbourne JD is just simply more recognized and prestigious than Monash's law programs.
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What kind of GPA is required to get into the Melbourne JD? I've heard a 75+ will get you considered but is this average calculated from your first/second/third year subjects combined? Does this mean that you basically have to get great marks from the beginning of your degree?
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Yes you do.
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ANU all the way?
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Hey guys I'm currently in year 12 and have planned to study Law for quite a while now. I was just wondering though...what is the most prestigious (or simply the best) way of pursuing studies in Law? I'm currently on the border between Melbourne and Monash and have received various opinions over the past few months. I'm really confused :\ is there anybody out there who has experience in this field or has any idea what I should do? I welcome all opinions. Thank you ;D
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If you get into Law, I recommend Melbourne. In reference to prestige I personally feel Melbourne on a world stage is better. Australian universities. com, rank Melbourne university as the second best university in Australia. Monash is ranked 8. I don't think you should taken into consideration the Atar clearly in score to determine which university is better. Remember Melbourne has the Melbourne model.
I'm currently doing yr 12 as well, I'm determined to do Law. For me it's out of Melbourne or La trobe. Monash is way to far for me to travel and I'm not confident will get the clearly in Atar. Good luck with your exams. :)
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If you get into Law, I recommend Melbourne. In reference to prestige I personally feel Melbourne on a world stage is better. Australian universities. com, rank Melbourne university as the second best university in Australia. Monash is ranked 8. I don't think you should taken into consideration the Atar clearly in score to determine which university is better. Remember Melbourne has the Melbourne model.
I'm currently doing yr 12 as well, I'm determined to do Law. For me it's out of Melbourne or La trobe. Monash is way to far for me to travel and I'm not confident will get the clearly in Atar. Good luck with your exams. :)
Yes, but why do a 3-4 year undergrad with no guarantee of getting into JD? If I get above the cut off for guaranteed entry into Melbuni JD then I wouldn't think twice about taking it. IMO it's the best possible law course for a Victorian. However, why would I chose to go to a uni where there's no guarantee that I'll end up with a law degree when I could go to ANU, Deakin, Monash or Latrobe and be guaranteed a degree in what I actually want?
It's all well and good to want to have the best degree out there, but if your score is between 93 and 99 (which is where a lot of people on this site will probably end up) it's better to chose a less prestigious course rather than take your luck with the Melbourne Model IMO.
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+1 Chrisjb, Melbourne Model is way too insecure for Post Grad. The risks involved, for a number of many years, is far outweighed by the entries like VU, Monash, La Trobe, RMIT, ANU where entering law faculty is just an ATAR entry. Besides, Law is tedious stuff, and most would drop it 2nd year, since the work involved in quite copious and requires alot of reading, based on my brother who did law degree and someone else who did do law but failed in it, and thought it wasn't the right course. So in saying that, 2nd year is already a screening test. What is MU thinking?!??!
I'm still in VCE myself, so I don't know the amount of work involved, though it isn't for the light hearted is what I"m told. Some serious juice in that course
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I'm also looking at doing Law (specifically Arts/Law), and I've done some research, and here's my opinion. If I'm wrong on anything (which I may very well be), feel free to correct me, anyone! :)
I feel like the two best universities to choose from would be either Monash or Melbourne. I do agree that the Melbourne JD (Graduate Law Program) is slightly more internationally recognised and I also think between the two, it's a slightly better degree. However, you should also take the cost as well as location of these two uni's into account.
Monash
It's five years to complete the double degree with an average annual contribution of $7,300 which adds up to $36,500 for the entire degree. You finish after five years with a BA/LLB.
:) : Cheaper, less years, and if you get the required ATAR you are guaranteed (pretty much) to graduate with a law degree.
:( : Monash can be quite a commute for west-siders (or anyone not in the east-side). I personally also don't think that the LLB is as internationally recognised as the JD (but not by much).
Melbourne
3 years of undergrad Arts ($5,442/year or $16,326 for the whole degree on average) + another 3 years for the JD (roughly $30,000 for the full degree). Total fees paid for Arts/JD is about $46,000 give or take.
:) : There's (I think) more flexibility with the Melbourne Model - more chances to pursue other interests and expand your skill set. Also, the location is amazing - so close to the CBD and right next to Lygon street. And you do finish with the JD. Also, it's much easier to get into Arts at Melbourne (ATAR: 88) compared to Arts/Law and Monash (ATAR: 98.4)
:( : More expensive. About $10,000 more expensive. Also, there's no guarantee you'll get into the JD. Last year, about 600 students applied for 200 spots. You need to sit the LSAT (which I've heard is brutal) and write a personal statement, as well as maintain a good undergrad weighted average. Unless, of course, you get an ATAR of 99.90+ which guarantees you a CSP place, in which case that's not a problem.
Note: These fees are all CSP fees. Full fee places (especially for the JD) are around three times more expensive. (So that 30k for the JD just became 90k. That's right.)
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Monash Law FTW.
I think with a double degree at Monash, you'd be exploring your options/interests even better. Yes, a BA or BComm at UoM might just expand your horizons and so on, but a double degree at Monash like a BComm/LLB will mean that you explore your options, just like you would in an undergraduate degree at UoM, BUT you explore these options whilst doing a law degree. So it's a bit of a compare/contrast experience, seeing what you like and don't like would be so much easier whilst undertaking a double degree.
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According to a lady from the Law faculty at the University of Melbourne that I heard today at an information day, she said out of roughly 600 students who applied for JD last year, only 250 were accepted. Chances aren't that great; the safer option would be to do an undergraduate law degree at another university. For those interested, an ATAR score of 99.0+ guarantees a full-fee place for JD, though you have to maintain a 75% weighted average in your undergraduate degree. If you get an ATAR score of 99.90 or better, it guarantees a CSP place for JD, though I still think you need to maintain a 75% weighted average in the undergraduate degree.
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Monash Law FTW.
I think with a double degree at Monash, you'd be exploring your options/interests even better. Yes, a BA or BComm at UoM might just expand your horizons and so on, but a double degree at Monash like a BComm/LLB will mean that you explore your options, just like you would in an undergraduate degree at UoM, BUT you explore these options whilst doing a law degree. So it's a bit of a compare/contrast experience, seeing what you like and don't like would be so much easier whilst undertaking a double degree.
Yeah, you're probably right. I just think that doing a double degree would take up a lot of my time and subject space. Doing just Arts would give me a whole bunch for IDF/Breadth space to mess around outside a major. :)
That said, I'm definitely leaning towards Monash just because of the fees.
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According to a lady from the Law faculty at the University of Melbourne that I heard today at an information day, she said out of roughly 600 students who applied for JD last year, only 250 were accepted. Chances aren't that great; the safer option would be to do an undergraduate law degree at another university. For those interested, an ATAR score of 99.0+ guarantees a full-fee place for JD, though you have to maintain a 75% weighted average in your undergraduate degree. If you get an ATAR score of 99.90 or better, it guarantees a CSP place for JD, though I still think you need to maintain a 75% weighted average in the undergraduate degree.
EPL! You were at Access All Areas? I was too! Listening to the same lady! :D
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According to a lady from the Law faculty at the University of Melbourne that I heard today at an information day, she said out of roughly 600 students who applied for JD last year, only 250 were accepted. Chances aren't that great; the safer option would be to do an undergraduate law degree at another university. For those interested, an ATAR score of 99.0+ guarantees a full-fee place for JD, though you have to maintain a 75% weighted average in your undergraduate degree. If you get an ATAR score of 99.90 or better, it guarantees a CSP place for JD, though I still think you need to maintain a 75% weighted average in the undergraduate degree.
EPL! You were at Access All Areas? I was too! Listening to the same lady! :D
Yeh, I was there. I think I sat in the row in front of you. I was the (only) Asian guy there! :)
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According to a lady from the Law faculty at the University of Melbourne that I heard today at an information day, she said out of roughly 600 students who applied for JD last year, only 250 were accepted. Chances aren't that great; the safer option would be to do an undergraduate law degree at another university. For those interested, an ATAR score of 99.0+ guarantees a full-fee place for JD, though you have to maintain a 75% weighted average in your undergraduate degree. If you get an ATAR score of 99.90 or better, it guarantees a CSP place for JD, though I still think you need to maintain a 75% weighted average in the undergraduate degree.
EPL! You were at Access All Areas? I was too! Listening to the same lady! :D
Yeh, I was there. I think I sat in the row in front of you. I was the (only) Asian guy there! :)
How do you know which row I was sitting in! 0_0
Haha, now I'm trying to remember what you looked like. Should have paid more attention to the audience! :P
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Hmm.. JD sounds very, very risky! Besides if you want to do graduate law, I think Monash has a Master of Laws which I'd imagine would be internationally-recognised?
I wish UoM didn't have that stupid Melbourne Model, I liked the way things used to be with the BComm/LLB degrees there.. these were definitely internationally-recognised I think, I had a tutor in grade 6 that finished this degree and is now lawyering in London and Hong Kong.... :P
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Its like taking the entrance exam for Melbourne High School/Macrobs except 100000x more stressful.
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Hmm.. JD sounds very, very risky! Besides if you want to do graduate law, I think Monash has a Master of Laws which I'd imagine would be internationally-recognised?
I wish UoM didn't have that stupid Melbourne Model, I liked the way things used to be with the BComm/LLB degrees there.. these were definitely internationally-recognised I think, I had a tutor in grade 6 that finished this degree and is now lawyering in London and Hong Kong.... :P
Yeah. In my honest, personal opinion, I think the whole internationally recognised, on par with the US and Europe thing is just suger-coating the fact that the Melbourne Model basically forces people to pay more for the same degrees.
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I personally wouldn't rule out ANU Law.. I was in Canberra for a week last week and I actually don't mind it! ANU looks massive... it's right in the city centre so yeah, pretty good!
Yeah. In my honest, personal opinion, I think the whole internationally recognised, on par with the US and Europe thing is just suger-coating the fact that the Melbourne Model basically forces people to pay more for the same degrees.
Looks like I'll be seeing you at Monash Menang! :P
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Its like taking the entrance exam for Melbourne High School/Macrobs except 100000x more stressful.
....eh
depends.
Statistically I think you have a higher chance of getting into the JD than Melbourne High or MacRob. Mainly because a lot of people who try are quite intelligent to begin with, and as of last year more than 1 in 3 got in.
The MHS/MGHS exams are sat by a couple of thousand students and only ~330 get in to Melbourne High and ~220 for MacRob.
However, which High School you go to doesn't matter as much as whether you get a law degree after 3 yeas of potentially useless undergrad, so in that sense it is definitely more stressful.
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I personally wouldn't rule out ANU Law.. I was in Canberra for a week last week and I actually don't mind it! ANU looks massive... it's right in the city centre so yeah, pretty good!
Yeah. In my honest, personal opinion, I think the whole internationally recognised, on par with the US and Europe thing is just suger-coating the fact that the Melbourne Model basically forces people to pay more for the same degrees.
Looks like I'll be seeing you at Monash Menang! :P
YEAHHHHH.
Monash LLB 2012! :D
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According to a lady from the Law faculty at the University of Melbourne that I heard today at an information day, she said out of roughly 600 students who applied for JD last year, only 250 were accepted. Chances aren't that great; the safer option would be to do an undergraduate law degree at another university. For those interested, an ATAR score of 99.0+ guarantees a full-fee place for JD, though you have to maintain a 75% weighted average in your undergraduate degree. If you get an ATAR score of 99.90 or better, it guarantees a CSP place for JD, though I still think you need to maintain a 75% weighted average in the undergraduate degree.
EPL! You were at Access All Areas? I was too! Listening to the same lady! :D
Yeh, I was there. I think I sat in the row in front of you. I was the (only) Asian guy there! :)
How do you know which row I was sitting in! 0_0
Haha, now I'm trying to remember what you looked like. Should have paid more attention to the audience! :P
I guessed? I'm fairly sure you were sitting behind me. I do remember what you looked like since I was like the first one in the theatre; I saw everyone come in, including yourself. Yeh, clearly you should have paid more attention to the audience. :P
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According to a lady from the Law faculty at the University of Melbourne that I heard today at an information day, she said out of roughly 600 students who applied for JD last year, only 250 were accepted. Chances aren't that great; the safer option would be to do an undergraduate law degree at another university. For those interested, an ATAR score of 99.0+ guarantees a full-fee place for JD, though you have to maintain a 75% weighted average in your undergraduate degree. If you get an ATAR score of 99.90 or better, it guarantees a CSP place for JD, though I still think you need to maintain a 75% weighted average in the undergraduate degree.
EPL! You were at Access All Areas? I was too! Listening to the same lady! :D
Yeh, I was there. I think I sat in the row in front of you. I was the (only) Asian guy there! :)
How do you know which row I was sitting in! 0_0
Haha, now I'm trying to remember what you looked like. Should have paid more attention to the audience! :P
I guessed? I'm fairly sure you were sitting behind me. I do remember what you looked like since I was like the first one in the theatre; I saw everyone come in, including yourself. Yeh, clearly you should have paid more attention to the audience. :P
Oh dear.
Now I'm annoyed at myself for not paying attention.
Just to be sure, though.
I was the one who asked the question about being able to fall back on the full-fee guarantee, yeah?
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Oh dear.
Now I'm annoyed at myself for not paying attention.
Just to be sure, though.
I was the one who asked the question about being able to fall back on the full-fee guarantee, yeah?
If I think I know what you looked like, and if my memory serves me correctly, I'll say no? You didn't ask a question, neither did I. Would I be right in saying? :P If I'm wrong, I blame the fact that I wasn't paying attention when people were asking questions.
EDIT: Were you sitting by yourself?
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Oh dear.
Now I'm annoyed at myself for not paying attention.
Just to be sure, though.
I was the one who asked the question about being able to fall back on the full-fee guarantee, yeah?
If I think I know what you looked like, and if my memory serves me correctly, I'll say no? You didn't ask a question, neither did I. Would I be right in saying? :P If I'm wrong, I blame the fact that I wasn't paying attention when people were asking questions.
Nope, I asked a question, at the end. Just before we were finishing up.
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I had to direct so many lost families and kids to that damn AAA thing *glare*
I would have thought that a double degree was worse for exploring your options than doing two sequential degrees but meh. Anyway, here's an article you might be interested in, it was published in the UoM student magazine.
http://union.unimelb.edu.au/farrago/uni-news/the-jd-all-the-kids-are-doing-it
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What about ANU V. Monash?
based purely on the degree.
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ANU hands down. I wouldn't be surprised if ANU's law is just as good as Melbourne's, if not better. ANU has a great emphasis on international and constitutional law. Its law course is also famous for being very academically vigorous.
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I don't understand why people keep referencing the 'internationally recognised component'. This is law...the laws of every country are different, so really, unless you study international law, it doesn't matter at all.
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I'm going to ANU! Can't wait! I was attracted to the international component of its subjects that the other courses didn't emphasise as much ... perfect complement to my ambitions in International Relations. But if it was out of Melb/Mon I'd go for Monash if your ATAR wasn't 99.0 + ... its too risky otherwise IMO.