ATAR Notes: Forum
VCE Stuff => Victorian Education Discussion => Topic started by: werdna on April 11, 2011, 05:25:15 pm
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OK so I've heard a few people talk about 'playing the system' in VCE. How did you do this and what does it actually entail? Of course 'VCE success' doesn't require you to play the system, it requires hard work and persistance. But, I was just curious as to how some of you did this alongside hard work? Cheers.
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Took a VET. ;)
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Make sure you study properly, and most importantly
exercise/stay healthy
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Took a VET. ;)
Yep VETs rock... bumped my score from 96.00 (according to atarcalc) to 97.45 which is a massive jump.
I guessed playing the system involves knowing the system. Knowing what you have to do to get those top scores. Making sure you get rank 1 in every subject.
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Took a VET. ;)
Yep VETs rock... bumped my score from 96.00 (according to atarcalc) to 97.45 which is a massive jump.
I guessed playing the system involves knowing the system. Knowing what you have to do to get those top scores. Making sure you get rank 1 in every subject.
Not only the score but the amount of free periods + less stress due to a less subject is amazing.
Oh and for you horny bastards....girls in class ::) :P
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Taking up subjects that scales. That's what my teacher told me, 'to play the game right'
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I'll give you the answer to this question at the end of year if I get a good ATAR... If not, then clearly I didn't know how to 'play the system'.
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I'll give you the answer to this question at the end of year if I get a good ATAR... If not, then clearly I didn't know how to 'play the system'.
;D
I think ive played the system well with my subjects :P Except now i have to actually do well in them... lol
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I didn't know how to play the system till year 12. Now its too late, damn going to a shitty catholic school! Wasted my school life, mingling with dumbasses.
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I didn't know how to play the system till year 12. Now its too late, damn going to a shitty catholic school! Wasted my school life, mingling with dumbasses.
Proof that you agree MHS > UHS :P
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Negative , Proof that Catholic Schools are twat.
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I didn't know how to play the system till year 12. Now its too late, damn going to a shitty catholic school! Wasted my school life, mingling with dumbasses.
Proof that you agree MHS > UHS :P
UHS was more fun actually. Less ppl too. Teaching standard was similar. True, MHS looks cooler (or grander), but in UHS, yr12s have their own area...
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Do BM :P
Other things include being aware of the bottom 2 (and hence prioritising your study; you're only getting 10% of your effort for those 2), going to MHS for some ridiculous SAC scaling and realising the importance of English.
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I didn't know how to play the system till year 12. Now its too late, damn going to a shitty catholic school! Wasted my school life, mingling with dumbasses.
Proof that you agree MHS > UHS :P
UHS was more fun actually. Less ppl too. Teaching standard was similar. True, MHS looks cooler (or grander), but in UHS, yr12s have their own area...
+1, a whole floor dedicated + balconies with air conditioners at your own disposal. Overcrowded? Not whatsoever.
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How to play the system: focus on English, do 3 high scaling subjects and 1 bludge subject
Done
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Thanks for the replies everyone. Now just trying to choose between Revs and BM.. can't decide which one 'should' be in the bottom 2.
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Thanks for the replies everyone. Now just trying to choose between Revs and BM.. can't decide which one 'should' be in the bottom 2.
Same here... I can't decide if bio or chem should be in the bottom 2 along with art...
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Bio and physics bottom 2 for me :)
Decided second week into yr11 that bio wasn't for me, don't know why I attempted physics...
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It's hard to say really.
Make sure you study properly, and most importantly
exercise/stay healthy
IMHO That's definitely not playing the system, that's being a very good student!
For me, playing the system would be;
Taking subjects that scale considerably well (at least one language)
Seeking out the most elite tutors and draining them of every bit of knowledge you can.
Getting access to resources most students don't have, for example AN/VN.
Most importantly, doing no study all year excluding the few nights before SAC's, and then spamming and spamming and spamming every practice exam ever made for all your subjects in the months leading to your exam.
[ My biggest fear in life is that I'll play the VCE system too well and get to university and fail hard :( ]
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I didn't but most 99.95s had a Uni Subject + Language + High Scaling subjects (methods/chem/spec)
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Most importantly, doing no study all year excluding the few nights before SAC's, and then spamming and spamming and spamming every practice exam ever made for all your subjects in the months leading to your exam.
You'd fail Psychology :P
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Most importantly, doing no study all year excluding the few nights before SAC's, and then spamming and spamming and spamming every practice exam ever made for all your subjects in the months leading to your exam.
For some, they fail so hard, they crash from their ivory tower
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It's hard to say really.
Make sure you study properly, and most importantly
exercise/stay healthy
IMHO That's definitely not playing the system, that's being a very good student!
For me, playing the system would be;
Taking subjects that scale considerably well (at least one language)
Seeking out the most elite tutors and draining them of every bit of knowledge you can.
Getting access to resources most students don't have, for example AN/VN.
Most importantly, doing no study all year excluding the few nights before SAC's, and then spamming and spamming and spamming every practice exam ever made for all your subjects in the months leading to your exam.
[ My biggest fear in life is that I'll play the VCE system too well and get to university and fail hard :( ]
haha, fair enough
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For those of you not at a "good" school, PLAY TO THE STRENGTH OF YOUR SCHOOL!!!
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Also neglecting bottom two subjects till exams. I neglected physics all year, slammed 15 exams the day before the exam for both mid and end of year, and still ended up with a 39 > 42 :P
I remember asking M@tty the most fundamental of questions the night before the exam =.=
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ATAR, you'll be psychologically-ill if you mention Psychology in one of your posts again. ;D
I didn't but most 99.95s had a Uni Subject + Language + High Scaling subjects (methods/chem/spec)
I'd love to do those scaling subjects like Chem and Spec, but they're just not for me and I wouldn't do that great in them to be honest. But I guess the Latin scaling makes up for the presence of non-Asian subjects for me.
I think one of the MGS 99.95ers had no math/science whatsoever though - I think they had Revs, Lit, Latin, Eng, Philosophy and something else.. MGS kids correct me!
For those of you not at a "good" school, PLAY TO THE STRENGTH OF YOUR SCHOOL!!!
Hmm.. what do you mean by this?
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ATAR, you'll be psychologically-ill if you mention Psychology in one of your posts again. ;D
I didn't but most 99.95s had a Uni Subject + Language + High Scaling subjects (methods/chem/spec)
I'd love to do those scaling subjects like Chem and Spec, but they're just not for me and I wouldn't do that great in them to be honest. But I guess the Latin scaling makes up for the presence of non-Asian subjects for me.
I think one of the MGS 99.95ers had no math/science whatsoever though - I think they had Revs, Lit, Latin, Eng, Philosophy and something else.. MGS kids correct me!
For those of you not at a "good" school, PLAY TO THE STRENGTH OF YOUR SCHOOL!!!
Hmm.. what do you mean by this?
There was a bloke from our school that got 99.90 with no subjects that scaled up. Whilst holding respect for others who got that ATAR, I think this is a more difficult achievement :P
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Most importantly, doing no study all year excluding the few nights before SAC's, and then spamming and spamming and spamming every practice exam ever made for all your subjects in the months leading to your exam.
You'd fail Psychology :P
Ah, but I wouldn't fail, because I wouldn't pick it ;)
For me, playing the system would be;
Taking subjects that scale considerably well (at least one language)
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There was a bloke from our school that got 99.90 with no subjects that scaled up. Whilst holding respect for others who got that ATAR, I think this is a more difficult achievement Tongue
Did he pretty much get all 50s?
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ATAR, you'll be psychologically-ill if you mention Psychology in one of your posts again. ;D
I didn't but most 99.95s had a Uni Subject + Language + High Scaling subjects (methods/chem/spec)
I'd love to do those scaling subjects like Chem and Spec, but they're just not for me and I wouldn't do that great in them to be honest. But I guess the Latin scaling makes up for the presence of non-Asian subjects for me.
I think one of the MGS 99.95ers had no math/science whatsoever though - I think they had Revs, Lit, Latin, Eng, Philosophy and something else.. MGS kids correct me!
For those of you not at a "good" school, PLAY TO THE STRENGTH OF YOUR SCHOOL!!!
Hmm.. what do you mean by this?
Well unless you are doing a subject that you are naturally good at (Maths/Science), any subjects reliant on teachers should be taken into consideration when choosing them...Have we not talked about the BM situation? :P
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Haha so use your teachers to your advantage, for subjects like BM/Legal/LOTE/Eng? :P
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There was a bloke from our school that got 99.90 with no subjects that scaled up. Whilst holding respect for others who got that ATAR, I think this is a more difficult achievement Tongue
Did he pretty much get all 50s?
yeah 4 50s in year 12 and bottom two were like high 30s :P
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I think one of the MGS 99.95ers had no math/science whatsoever though - I think they had Revs, Lit, Latin, Eng, Philosophy and something else.. MGS kids correct me!
Wasn't he also the school captain or something? Latin helps...
There was a bloke from our school that got 99.90 with no subjects that scaled up. Whilst holding respect for others who got that ATAR, I think this is a more difficult achievement Tongue
Did he pretty much get all 50s?
yeah 4 50s in year 11 and bottom two were like high 30s :P
Wait, how many 50's in year 11?!?!?!
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There was a bloke from our school that got 99.90 with no subjects that scaled up. Whilst holding respect for others who got that ATAR, I think this is a more difficult achievement Tongue
Did he pretty much get all 50s?
yeah 4 50s in year 11 and bottom two were like high 30s :P
Wow year 11?? Makes me wish I'd done more 3/4's last year...
All this stuff about "playing the system" with subject selection kind of isn't helpful now though... we're all stuck with our subjects now :(
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Seriously, just do the subjects you enjoy then you are bound to do more work and be far more likely to succeed rather than picking subjects which scale up.
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I think one of the MGS 99.95ers had no math/science whatsoever though - I think they had Revs, Lit, Latin, Eng, Philosophy and something else.. MGS kids correct me!
That's right. The last subject was Economics.
Wasn't he also the school captain or something? Latin helps...
That is correct.
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I think one of the MGS 99.95ers had no math/science whatsoever though - I think they had Revs, Lit, Latin, Eng, Philosophy and something else.. MGS kids correct me!
Yep, the guy was a legend. He did Revs in Year 11, and Lit, English, Latin, Philo and Economics in Year 12. He was also School Captain and involved in a variety of activities around the school to boot. He managed to pull off a 99.95.
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@MGS guy, yes, he did English, Lit, Revs, Latin, Philosophy and Economics, and got 50s in the first three and a 40 in Latin, hence the 99.95 - plus he's just a freak of nature and an amazing person. He was indeed the school captain, as well as a two time DAV octofinalist, 1sts rower, 1sts rugby player and all-round nice guy.
My advice is understand what the markers want. Best thing you can do.
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@MGS guy, yes, he did English, Lit, Revs, Latin, Philosophy and Economics, and got 50s in the first three and a 40 in Latin, hence the 99.95 - plus he's just a freak of nature and an amazing person. He was indeed the school captain, as well as a two time DAV octofinalist, 1sts rower, 1sts rugby player and all-round nice guy.
My advice is understand what the markers want. Best thing you can do.
That is beast >_<! What a champion.
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I have a friend who thought he could 'play' the system by picking chinese (had to do chinese SLA) and spesh. He isn't doing great in both, I thought he was crazy when he told me he chose spesh, he kept telling me about the 'scaling', it's odd because we're almost neck and neck in methods and I pretty much am a methods dud. I would feel bad for him, but hey, it was his choice. Scaling's put for a reason.. the lesson is don't try and undermine that reason :S
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Study English before it's too late!
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I have a friend who thought he could 'play' the system by picking chinese (had to do chinese SLA) and spesh. He isn't doing great in both, I thought he was crazy when he told me he chose spesh, he kept telling me about the 'scaling', it's odd because we're almost neck and neck in methods and I pretty much am a methods dud. I would feel bad for him, but hey, it was his choice. Scaling's put for a reason.. the lesson is don't try and undermine that reason :S
Exactly.
I have a friend who did VCE over three years (3+4s) so he would have more time to tackle the 'hard' subjects: chem, spesh, methods, etc.
His only motivation for doing these subjects was for scaling and to be quite honest, he lacked in the mentality to perform well in them (what I mean is he didn't study in the right way: he did lots of work, but lacked understanding of the concepts.)
He ended up with an ATAR of 33.
Do the subjects you like and enjoy. If you're one of the lucky people who enjoy the subjects which scale highly, well done; that, I think, is the best way to 'play the system'.
Oh, and up until next year or whenever the change is being made, extension studies were also a good, easy boost to your score. (Much better than VET because of the ability to get 5 or more without having to average 50 in your top 4 :P .)
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Thanks for the replies everyone. Now just trying to choose between Revs and BM.. can't decide which one 'should' be in the bottom 2.
Revs
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Thanks for the replies everyone. Now just trying to choose between Revs and BM.. can't decide which one 'should' be in the bottom 2.
Revs
Yeah, definitely.
If you're thinking in terms of workload then BM is much, much lighter than revs. Also, there's no reason why you can't get a great score to bring the top 4 average up. ;)
I've heard revs requires a lot of commitment to perform exceptionally in.
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Just to clarify, I'm doing the subjects I like. I've already tried my hand at Bio, Chem and Spec, and after dropping these subjects, I'm dead sure that I'm doing the right subjects this year.
Thanks for the replies everyone. Now just trying to choose between Revs and BM.. can't decide which one 'should' be in the bottom 2.
Revs
Hmm.. I was leaning towards having BM in the bottom 2. :S I'm not too sure, I guess I may have to try and put in equal effort for all subjects.. I'd feel really guilty knowing that I'd be neglecting a subject.
Yeah, definitely.
If you're thinking in terms of workload then BM is much, much lighter than revs. Also, there's no reason why you can't get a great score to bring the top 4 average up. ;)
I've heard revs requires a lot of commitment to perform exceptionally in.
Good point m@tty, now I'm not sure which one to 'neglect'.....
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yeah, revs is probably one of the hardest subjects in vce
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yeah, revs is probably one of the hardest subjects in vce
Definitely.
Whilst BM is the easier one in terms of material and learning technique, I think I prefer Revs more as it allows you to actually think and come up with your own ideas and interpretations.. whereas BM is more or less rote-learning (and a bit of application), no matter how you look at it.
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Just out of interest: Do you think it would be better to focus on chem or bio for top 4?
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I have to admit that I only chose chem and methods for the scaling and it worked out ok for me. however if i had picked business and accounting i may have produced scores similar to legal.
subject selection is the key
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Just out of interest: Do you think it would be better to focus on chem or bio for top 4?
Try extremely hard in both ASAP in preparation for the midyears. After them, get a statement of marks for both and see which one you did better in. Dump the one which you did worse in, or both if you don't think either are top 4 material (only if you're confident in your other 3 though of course).
EDIT: This is the trick that I did at least. Spent the entire first half of the year on Chem, got an awesome midyear score (lost 2 marks or so), and then neglected the subject for the rest of the year and crammed about 5 practice papers 2 days before the end year. Did fairly 'average' (8-10 marks lost), but still did well due to my midyear score and my SAC marks. Consequently, I had more time to spend end year on my other subjects. Despite what people say about consistency throughout the year, the home stretch of the few weeks just before the exams really is the most vital time by far in terms of retaining knowledge and whatnot, and I really couldn't find the time to do all 5 subjects there so ignoring Chem really helped.
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yeah, revs is probably one of the hardest subjects in vce
Definitely.
Whilst BM is the easier one in terms of material and learning technique, I think I prefer Revs more as it allows you to actually think and come up with your own ideas and interpretations.. whereas BM is more or less rote-learning (and a bit of application), no matter how you look at it.
Also, although not a determining factor by any means, also think about the resources you have at your disposal and which you'd rather be studying for when you're under the pump...
Just out of interest: Do you think it would be better to focus on chem or bio for top 4?
Can't speak for Bio, but I hear there is a lot to remember, but personally I don't think there is THAT much to remember in chem, it's more a process of fine tuning (don't want to speak too soon :P)
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Just out of interest: Do you think it would be better to focus on chem or bio for top 4?
I chose physics over psychology after mid year exam since my physics mark was far better than my psychology. Maybe you should do the same :)
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Negative , Proof that Catholic Schools are twat.
catholic schools are cool... what are u on about? Wait is urs single-sex?
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Negative , Proof that Catholic Schools are twat.
catholic schools are cool... what are u on about? Wait is urs single-sex?
What are YOU on about :o, I agree with water haha
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Negative , Proof that Catholic Schools are twat.
catholic schools are cool... what are u on about? Wait is urs single-sex?
What are YOU on about :o, I agree with water haha
but why? whats wrong with them?
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Just out of interest: Do you think it would be better to focus on chem or bio for top 4?
Try extremely hard in both ASAP in preparation for the midyears. After them, get a statement of marks for both and see which one you did better in. Dump the one which you did worse in, or both if you don't think either are top 4 material (only if you're confident in your other 3 though of course).
EDIT: This is the trick that I did at least. Spent the entire first half of the year on Chem, got an awesome midyear score (lost 2 marks or so), and then neglected the subject for the rest of the year and crammed about 5 practice papers 2 days before the end year. Did fairly 'average' (8-10 marks lost), but still did well due to my midyear score and my SAC marks. Consequently, I had more time to spend end year on my other subjects. Despite what people say about consistency throughout the year, the home stretch of the few weeks just before the exams really is the most vital time by far in terms of retaining knowledge and whatnot, and I really couldn't find the time to do all 5 subjects there so ignoring Chem really helped.
But wouldn't it be better to focus on the one you do best in, and neglect the other one as it will probably only be worth 10% in the end?
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But wouldn't it be better to focus on the one you do best in, and neglect the other one as it will probably only be worth 10% in the end?
That's what I'm saying :o My example at the end is just a variation of the above since I only had one midyear, and because I needed heaps of time to study for English.
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But wouldn't it be better to focus on the one you do best in, and neglect the other one as it will probably only be worth 10% in the end?
That's what I'm saying :o My example at the end is just a variation of the above since I only had one midyear, and because I needed heaps of time to study for English.
Okay... I thought you were saying to neglect the one you do best in to focus on the other :)
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Just out of interest: Do you think it would be better to focus on chem or bio for top 4?
Try extremely hard in both ASAP in preparation for the midyears. After them, get a statement of marks for both and see which one you did better in. Dump the one which you did worse in, or both if you don't think either are top 4 material (only if you're confident in your other 3 though of course).
EDIT: This is the trick that I did at least. Spent the entire first half of the year on Chem, got an awesome midyear score (lost 2 marks or so), and then neglected the subject for the rest of the year and crammed about 5 practice papers 2 days before the end year. Did fairly 'average' (8-10 marks lost), but still did well due to my midyear score and my SAC marks. Consequently, I had more time to spend end year on my other subjects. Despite what people say about consistency throughout the year, the home stretch of the few weeks just before the exams really is the most vital time by far in terms of retaining knowledge and whatnot, and I really couldn't find the time to do all 5 subjects there so ignoring Chem really helped.
So you lost ~12 marks and still pulled off a 47 :o
Your SAC ranking must've been epic!
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Three letters: M, H and S.
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Yeah, I bet if a student got a C, they'd still get A-A+ as a SAC ranking >;
The unfairness!
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Yeah, I bet if a student got a C, they'd still get A-A+ as a SAC ranking >;
The unfairness!
Isnt that the point of moderation though. Their school hands out C's when in fact in comparison to the state they should be A-A+'s
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Another thing to understand is diminishing returns. Keep in mind that the aggregate runs on a linear scale, while the study scores operate on a normal distribution. The importance of this is that the time spent getting a certain study score increases exponentially as your aim goes higher (since the study scores operate on that sort of scale). For example, getting a 30 isn't particularly difficult, while getting a 40 might take double the time spent, but then furthering this to a 45 might take a four-fold increase. Rather than just getting one subject with a really high mark, you could spend this time elsewhere and get say for example four 40s, rather than one 50 and three 30s. Basically, take-home message is to balance out studying your top four subjects.
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Another thing to understand is diminishing returns. Keep in mind that the aggregate runs on a linear scale, while the study scores operate on a normal distribution. The importance of this is that the time spent getting a certain study score increases exponentially as your aim goes higher (since the study scores operate on that sort of scale). For example, getting a 30 isn't particularly difficult, while getting a 40 might take double the time spent, but then furthering this to a 45 might take a four-fold increase. Rather than just getting one subject with a really high mark, you could spend this time elsewhere and get say for example four 40s, rather than one 50 and three 30s. Basically, take-home message is to balance out studying your top four subjects.
Now that is how you play the game. I always remember my careers coordinator telling us back in year 10 - 'VCE IS A COMPETITION'. 8-)
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Another thing to understand is diminishing returns. Keep in mind that the aggregate runs on a linear scale, while the study scores operate on a normal distribution. The importance of this is that the time spent getting a certain study score increases exponentially as your aim goes higher (since the study scores operate on that sort of scale). For example, getting a 30 isn't particularly difficult, while getting a 40 might take double the time spent, but then furthering this to a 45 might take a four-fold increase. Rather than just getting one subject with a really high mark, you could spend this time elsewhere and get say for example four 40s, rather than one 50 and three 30s. Basically, take-home message is to balance out studying your top four subjects.
Now that is how you play the game. I always remember my careers coordinator telling us back in year 10 - 'VCE IS A COMPETITION'. 8-)
Yeah my teachers are always going on about how VCE is a massive competition, not just within the school, and how we need to remember all those MHS kids who study 6 hours a day and figure out how to compete against them as well :S
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Another thing to understand is diminishing returns. Keep in mind that the aggregate runs on a linear scale, while the study scores operate on a normal distribution. The importance of this is that the time spent getting a certain study score increases exponentially as your aim goes higher (since the study scores operate on that sort of scale). For example, getting a 30 isn't particularly difficult, while getting a 40 might take double the time spent, but then furthering this to a 45 might take a four-fold increase. Rather than just getting one subject with a really high mark, you could spend this time elsewhere and get say for example four 40s, rather than one 50 and three 30s. Basically, take-home message is to balance out studying your top four subjects.
Now that is how you play the game. I always remember my careers coordinator telling us back in year 10 - 'VCE IS A COMPETITION'. 8-)
Yeah my teachers are always going on about how VCE is a massive competition, not just within the school, and how we need to remember all those MHS kids who study 6 hours a day and figure out how to compete against them as well :S
MHS kids don't study 6 hours a day :P
....
more like 10
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Sorry taiga, but 10 hours of Facebook doesn't count as 'study'. ;)
On a serious note, I hope you're joking.
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On the topic of MHS,
I was told by a fellow MHSian
Half of MHS are the generic nerds whilst the other half are the "Play hard, study hard" types. Is this true, I wish my parents would accept the latter. It'd show them something!
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And there are those who pull 95+ without doing shit all
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On the topic of MHS,
I was told by a fellow MHSian
Half of MHS are the generic nerds whilst the other half are the "Play hard, study hard" types. Is this true, I wish my parents would accept the latter. It'd show them something!
More or less, yes.
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On the topic of MHS,
I was told by a fellow MHSian
Half of MHS are the generic nerds whilst the other half are the "Play hard, study hard" types. Is this true, I wish my parents would accept the latter. It'd show them something!
Pretty much true.
But like, there's plenty of people in MHS who get 70's and 80's, it's not a guaranteed 90+ ATAR.
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On the topic of MHS,
I was told by a fellow MHSian
Half of MHS are the generic nerds whilst the other half are the "Play hard, study hard" types. Is this true, I wish my parents would accept the latter. It'd show them something!
Pretty much true.
But like, there's plenty of people in MHS who get 70's and 80's, it's not a guaranteed 90+ ATAR.
I assume they are shunned for getting a crappy score?
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There aren't "plenty", but there are a few, but they aren't shunned as such. They're often good at something else (some are going to USA for basketball scholarships / Harvard for Rowing etc.).
MHS is somewhat competitive, but really it is more prevalent when you're in the group of nerdy kids at the top who are overly competitive
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Did both IT subjects. Should have done BM while I was at it...
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OK so I've heard a few people talk about 'playing the system' in VCE. How did you do this and what does it actually entail? Of course 'VCE success' doesn't require you to play the system, it requires hard work and persistance. But, I was just curious as to how some of you did this alongside hard work? Cheers.
Dude. One acronym. SEAS.
We totally got this. :coolsmiley:
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Neglecting my fifth subject to concentrate on my top 4 was how I 'played the system', if indeed I did 'play' it.
Also, I did it by doing Business Management ;)
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Basically a scheme to help disadvantaged students enter tertiary education by lowering the requirements needed.
http://www.vtac.edu.au/seas.html
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If you qualify for SEAS you're hardly playing the system
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On the topic of MHS,
I was told by a fellow MHSian
Half of MHS are the generic nerds whilst the other half are the "Play hard, study hard" types. Is this true, I wish my parents would accept the latter. It'd show them something!
Pretty much true.
But like, there's plenty of people in MHS who get 70's and 80's, it's not a guaranteed 90+ ATAR.
I assume they are shunned for getting a crappy score?
Not really, lol why would you assume that =P. We're not all that mean :P.
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Basically all you have to do is...screw whatever educational beliefs you have and bend over for VCAA and their system. Read the examiners reports, learn what style of answers they write. Forget what you think is right...it doesn't even matter. Just do whatever it takes to get as high an ATAR as possible at the sake of your enjoyment and the fun of learning. Whether that means taking subjects you don't like or screwing over your friends because "VCE IS A COMPETITION"...just do it!
I really hate VCE for creating this mentality in students. I know almost everyone does it, but it's still a horrific result of what VCE does to people. And then I get more annoyed at people who accuse others like myself for taking subjects like Latin simply because of the markup when in actual fact I just love the language and the literature involved (which is why I took Classics...a subject in which top 6 got me a 45, so no, it's not about picking subjects which give you easy high scores). /end rant
(tldr) Find a balance between "playing the system" and enjoying your education because I honestly believe that such a mentality results in the top scores.
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Neglecting my fifth subject to concentrate on my top 4 was how I 'played the system', if indeed I did 'play' it.
Also, I did it by doing Business Management ;)
It seems BM is becoming a common occurence :P
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Basically all you have to do is...screw whatever educational beliefs you have and bend over for VCAA and their system. Read the examiners reports, learn what style of answers they write. Forget what you think is right...it doesn't even matter. Just do whatever it takes to get as high an ATAR as possible at the sake of your enjoyment and the fun of learning. Whether that means taking subjects you don't like or screwing over your friends because "VCE IS A COMPETITION"...just do it!
I really hate VCE for creating this mentality in students. I know almost everyone does it, but it's still a horrific result of what VCE does to people. And then I get more annoyed at people who accuse others like myself for taking subjects like Latin simply because of the markup when in actual fact I just love the language and the literature involved (which is why I took Classics...a subject in which top 6 got me a 45, so no, it's not about picking subjects which give you easy high scores). /end rant
Aren't you exaggerating a bit?
I don't think VCE creates this mentality in people, they do it to themselves, or adopt it because of peer/parental/teacher pressure. There must be some of the 99.95s who haven't sacrificed their love of learning to their score. And you yourself seem to have avoided it by taking subjects you love.
The range of subjects offered combined with your own attitude to learning can make VCE an enjoyable experience, and one full of actual learning and inquiry. I enjoyed VCE a lot, and did the subjects i found most interesting. While I'm not so academically inclined and certainly no top scorer, it was enough to get the uni place i was after, so it seems you can have your cake and eat it too.
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Basically all you have to do is...screw whatever educational beliefs you have and bend over for VCAA and their system. Read the examiners reports, learn what style of answers they write. Forget what you think is right...it doesn't even matter. Just do whatever it takes to get as high an ATAR as possible at the sake of your enjoyment and the fun of learning. Whether that means taking subjects you don't like or screwing over your friends because "VCE IS A COMPETITION"...just do it!
I really hate VCE for creating this mentality in students. I know almost everyone does it, but it's still a horrific result of what VCE does to people. And then I get more annoyed at people who accuse others like myself for taking subjects like Latin simply because of the markup when in actual fact I just love the language and the literature involved (which is why I took Classics...a subject in which top 6 got me a 45, so no, it's not about picking subjects which give you easy high scores). /end rant
(tldr) Find a balance between "playing the system" and enjoying your education because I honestly believe that such a mentality results in the top scores.
+1 I think Fabbri is the perfect example for this.
Aren't you exaggerating a bit?
I don't think VCE creates this mentality in people, they do it to themselves, or adopt it because of peer/parental/teacher pressure. There must be some of the 99.95s who haven't sacrificed their love of learning to their score. And you yourself seem to have avoided it by taking subjects you love.
The range of subjects offered combined with your own attitude to learning can make VCE an enjoyable experience, and one full of actual learning and inquiry. I enjoyed VCE a lot, and did the subjects i found most interesting. While I'm not so academically inclined and certainly no top scorer, it was enough to get the uni place i was after, so it seems you can have your cake and eat it too.
It was exaggeration but a lot of people actually do do this to a large extent. Although it's true that VCE doesn't create this mentality to the students directly, it offers a breeding ground for it. Whether you do or not is up for the students to decide. Anyway, Pixon was probably implying that the majority of those who do get 99.95 were 'playing the system' but also enjoying the subjects they're doing.
To actually play the system, you need pure determination to actually grit your way through the subjects which you don't necessarily like but gives back great returns for your effort. Constantly asking teachers for help after class/school, ignoring extracurricular and other activities you like (including sport), rote learning perfectly exactly what you need to do to please the examiners, never ever helping your friends at school because they might then get higher SAC ranks - it's not an enjoyable life. Not to mention that once you hit Uni, it's a completely new playing field.
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@Binders
I heartily agree with you that VCE can be an enjoyable experience if one sets out for it to be so, especially if you pick the subjects you love as you have done.
And yes, I was exaggerating to a certain degree, though there are people (even on VN) who have adopted such a style of learning, and I suppose there is a fine line between what VCE directly does to a person and what that person does to him/herself. In the end, it is up to us as students to try and avoid falling into the trap, but also, VCE must be partly to blame for directing students in such a way. Of course, teachers and parents will place pressure on students, but this pressure comes from a need to achieve high rankings and scores in an environment which is created by VCE/VCAA. The unfortunate reality is that, for many, they simply becomes a number in the end, and all the important values of education and learning are lost in this ranking. People won't focus on what they have taken out of their high school life, but instead rejoice or mourn in their final score.
Indeed, there are people like yourself who can take more out of VCE and education as a whole than just a number, but unfortunately this is not the case for many.
(sorry I realise I'm doubling on points made by Zien (Y) )
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surely around 90% of people can't be falling victim to this mindset? and of the top ten 10%, not all them will either.
I think that the highly competitive atmosphere at a small percentage of schools, and the...drive for excellence here on AN might be skewing
the perception of how many people actually fall into this.
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Interestingly, or perhaps more meaningfully, you will see this mindset mostly outside of the top 10% by people who need to "play the system" to succeed. Perhaps it is the people who don't play the game and enjoy their education who really succeed in the end.
And you have a point about AN and the small percentage of schools...and I can see how my perception would be skewed. I dunno...I still think it's an issue with VCE that should be addressed, and since this is AN we are discussing this on, the issue is more profound by addressing it here.
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In support of Pixon, I don't go to an elite private school (and far from it), but I will admit that I'm highly competitive. However, I probably wouldn't be that competitive unless I came upon this very website. But has it been a bad thing? No, definitely not. I've come to meet some very smart and very dedicated students of whom I would never meet at my own school, which has only given me further determination to do well. If I hadn't, then there is no way I would have done as well, because where I come from a lot of people are far too optimistic about how well they do - only to find out there are far better kids out there. Now I'm not saying you HAVE to be competitive to do well, but you have to know what's around in order to realise what it takes to do well.
Furthermore, I want to do Medicine next year. There were 5000+ students that put this course as their highest preference, and yet they only take 10% of these kids. Is it wrong that I shouldn't put myself before others? Of course, I'm not going to tamper with results or "take out the competition" so to speak to get into the course, but in the end why wouldn't I try and better myself to get in?
Sorry if I wasted a minute of your life with my rant, I didn't mean to :D
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In support of Pixon, I don't go to an elite private school (and far from it), but I will admit that I'm highly competitive. However, I probably wouldn't be that competitive unless I came upon this very website. But has it been a bad thing? No, definitely not. I've come to meet some very smart and very dedicated students of whom I would never meet at my own school, which has only given me further determination to do well. If I hadn't, then there is no way I would have done as well, because where I come from a lot of people are far too optimistic about how well they do - only to find out there are far better kids out there. Now I'm not saying you HAVE to be competitive to do well, but you have to know what's around in order to realise what it takes to do well.
Same situation, you dont realise the level of competition until you get results which arent what you expected or you meet other high performing students and find out what they do to obtain such high results.
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Don't need to play the system. I'm just that good.
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If you qualify for SEAS you're hardly playing the system
Meaning...?
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If you qualify for SEAS you're hardly playing the system
Meaning...?
If you're in the circumstances where a SEAS is granted, then you aren't exactly in the position to play the system in the first place.
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If you qualify for SEAS you're hardly playing the system
Meaning...?
If you're in the circumstances where a SEAS is granted, then you aren't exactly in the position to play the system in the first place.
So that means answering werdna's question is pointless, right?
Both werdna and I attend a school that is regarded under-represented.
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Exactly.. and I think it all comes down to knowing how the VCE system works. Some people get 100% on their SACs and think that they're gonna get a straight 50. Ah, no.. it obviously could, but there are many factors that will determine your score. It depends on the school as well to an extent, it may well could be that the level of quality in getting 100% in a SAC at my school will be different to the quality needed in getting the same score in a different school.
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How is SEAS not playing the system? Its quite overtly playing the system because your manipulating the system by claiming to have factors that affect your learning and your ATAR.
Nevertheless, i agree that doing the best you can in the subjects you've chosen is playing the system to your advantage. But then again, i think it depends on the course you want to get into. Scaling could change the difference between you getting into, lets say Med :)
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...... Scaling could change the difference between you getting into, lets say Med :)
....no. Med is based on UMAT and then interview. People with 95s have gotten in.
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If you qualify for SEAS you're hardly playing the system
Meaning...?
If you're in the circumstances where a SEAS is granted, then you aren't exactly in the position to play the system in the first place.
So that means answering werdna's question is pointless, right?
Both werdna and I attend a school that is regarded under-represented.
So you think VN members should have just ignored this topic then...?
Your use of rhetoric is thoroughly confusing, sorry.
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How is SEAS not playing the system? Its quite overtly playing the system because your manipulating the system by claiming to have factors that affect your learning and your ATAR.
It's a totally different story if your 'claims' are legitimate.
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...... Scaling could change the difference between you getting into, lets say Med :)
....no. Med is based on UMAT and then interview. People with 95s have gotten in.
The lowest of 2009 was something like 93.XX :o
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Both werdna and I attend a school that is regarded under-represented.
Then again, heaps of schools are listed as under-represented.. a few hundred of them. So I'm not too sure how much of an impact a SEAS application under this category will have on your tertiary chances.
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How is SEAS not playing the system? Its quite overtly playing the system because your manipulating the system by claiming to have factors that affect your learning and your ATAR.
However you aren't manipulating the system, you're legitimately registering an application for an exception pertaining to your learning environment. The entire SEAS system is in place to help those who need it, SEAS students aren't receiving any unfair advantages over other students.
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Both werdna and I attend a school that is regarded under-represented.
Then again, heaps of schools are listed as under-represented.. a few hundred of them.
Yeh, I don't think SEAS will work for disadvantaged schools unless they are rural
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You can play the SEAS system but if you're in legitimate need of it then no, it's no manipulation.
RE: med at monash, SEAS will be considered only after the interview stage afaik (interview offers are based on UMAT only)
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So you think VN members should have just ignored this topic then...?
Your use of rhetoric is thoroughly confusing, sorry.
Not every VN member, just those who feel that if an individual is eligible for SEAS, then they, in no way whatsoever, are able to 'play the system'.
Then again, heaps of schools are listed as under-represented.. a few hundred of them. So I'm not too sure how much of an impact a SEAS application under this category will have on your tertiary chances.
I'm eligible for more than one criteria of SEAS so that doesn't really matter. According to careers, the effect SEAS has differs from one individual to the next, even if its for the same criteria (i.e. attending the same under-represented school.) Also I don't think SEAS will have no effect either.
Yeh, I don't think SEAS will work for disadvantaged schools unless they are rural
Confirmed with careers that our school is eligible.
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RE: med at monash, SEAS will be considered only after the interview stage afaik (interview offers are based on UMAT only)
Also on predicted ATAR (by school)
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So you think VN members should have just ignored this topic then...?
Your use of rhetoric is thoroughly confusing, sorry.
Not every VN member, just those who feel that if an individual is eligible for SEAS, then they, in no way whatsoever, are able to 'play the system'.
SEAS is only given for legitimate disadvantages.
If, however, one gains SEAS status under false pretense, then yes, they are playing the system.
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Going off topic here but since it was brought up: The cutoff for Undergrad Medicine at Monash is 95.00. Anything below, you won't even be recognised even if you have top UMAT and interview scores (unless you are part of SEAS or have extremely exceptional circumstances). That said, the median ATAR of entry last year was 99.40. Although you can still get in with semi-high 90s (e.g. 95-98), the people who did get in with those scores must have had brilliant UMAT and interview scores to have been given that opportunity. Even then, it's still a bit uncertain whether they would be offered a place or not. So yes, a high ATAR still does matter if you want to have a very good chance of getting in.
Edit: Apparently I'm eligible to apply for Non-English speaking background as part of SEAS. Considering I moved to England when I was 6, 'that' would be playing the system. These kinds of schemes are always a bit controversial. I still consider half the people doing Chinese SL to be 'playing the system'.'
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Why is everything based on technicalities? stfu all!
If you want technicalities, then how about scaling CAN make the difference between a person getting into Med or not. OBVIOUSLY there are other factors too, that affect your ATAR.
How about, applying for SEAS, whether or not legitimately, will affect the outcome of yout ATAR, and is therefore manipulating the system.
Heres another technicality, how about classifying rocking up to school every day a manipulation of your ATAR and hence your freaken life!
Hows that for playing the system??
In conclusion, calm down guys! :)
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^
Have you studied Language Analysis yet?
Words have connotations and 'mainpulation' accompanied by 'SEAS' in the sentence has a heavily implied negative connotation...
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Why is everything based on technicalities? stfu all!
If you want technicalities, then how about scaling CAN make the difference between a person getting into Med or not. OBVIOUSLY there are other factors too, that affect your ATAR.
How about, applying for SEAS, whether or not legitimately, will affect the outcome of yout ATAR, and is therefore manipulating the system.
Heres another technicality, how about classifying rocking up to school every day a manipulation of your ATAR and hence your freaken life!
Hows that for playing the system??
In conclusion, calm down guys! :)
Wow. I'll give you another technicality:
You rule.
Not.
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SEAS is only given for legitimate disadvantages.
If, however, one gains SEAS status under false pretense, then yes, they are playing the system.
Nuff said.
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I won't name him, but an acquaintance of mine had her mother quit her low paying job for a while, then managed to get youth allowance, which tipped his family into one of the Monash Disadvantage groups, and got himself a Merit Scholarship. Mind you to get a scholarship in his course would have required an ATAR not much lower than 99.80, which he was well below.
I have a few qualms with the Merit scholarship, quite a lot of people get in on complete bullshit claims. Most notoriously, my mate went to a private school for 9 years, lives in a Mansion in the expensive part of our suburb (houses 800K+), parents earn a lot by running a restaurant and some other business, yet somehow managed to get offered one of the scholarships by being "disadvantaged". That said I gave him so much shit for being a terrible bloke, and I like to think this is the reason he didn't accept it :P
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Oh and if you're a complete nolife with no friends, move to your nearest local underrepresented school a few months before exams.
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Oh and if you're a complete nolife with no friends, move to your nearest local underrepresented school a few months before exams.
;D
Does SEAS for under-represented schools make that much a difference/impact? :S
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Oh and if you're a complete nolife with no friends, move to your nearest local underrepresented school a few months before exams.
Unfortunately our school has quite a long waiting list, best bet would have been to get in at Year 7. :angel:
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Oh and if you're a complete nolife with no friends, move to your nearest local underrepresented school a few months before exams.
;D
Does SEAS for under-represented schools make that much a difference/impact? :S
I don't think so.. though if it's between you and someone who doesn't have any SEAS (same score which is below clearly in etc.) it would be a good thing to have.
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Oh and if you're a complete nolife with no friends, move to your nearest local underrepresented school a few months before exams.
Unfortunately our school has quite a long waiting list, best bet would have been to get in at Year 7. :angel:
Hahaha the irony.
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I won't name him, but an acquaintance of mine had her mother quit her low paying job for a while, then managed to get youth allowance, which tipped his family into one of the Monash Disadvantage groups, and got himself a Merit Scholarship. Mind you to get a scholarship in his course would have required an ATAR not much lower than 99.80, which he was well below.
I have a few qualms with the Merit scholarship, quite a lot of people get in on complete bullshit claims. Most notoriously, my mate went to a private school for 9 years, lives in a Mansion in the expensive part of our suburb (houses 800K+), parents earn a lot by running a restaurant and some other business, yet somehow managed to get offered one of the scholarships by being "disadvantaged". That said I gave him so much shit for being a terrible bloke, and I like to think this is the reason he didn't accept it :P
Yeah I know someone who claimed to be aboriginal to gain SEAS or something... though he only had some very very distant relative that was actually aboriginal...
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If you have an permanent, serious medical condition, but it does not affect your learning or study, is it possible to get SEAS?
I think you just answered your own question. ;)
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LOL im well aware of what a connotation is, but again, here we are getting into technicalities! Why does whether or not i think SEAS it right or wrong, have to do with what im trying to say! And just for the record, i didnt mean it negatively or positively, but rather as a statement of what i think it truly is!
LOL taiga, thats quite a stupid idea
and anyways, if you were that desperate, why would your amount of friends impact whether you move to better your ATAR.
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If you have an permanent, serious medical condition, but it does not affect your learning or study, is it possible to get SEAS?
Nope, has to affect your learning or study. Need a doctors report too.
Also, I can't think of a permanent, serious medical condition that wouldn't affect your learning or study (i.e. time taken off for treatment, pain endured while trying to study etc)
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If you have an permanent, serious medical condition, but it does not affect your learning or study, is it possible to get SEAS?
Nope, has to affect your learning or study. Need a doctors report too.
Also, I can't think of a permanent, serious medical condition that wouldn't affect your learning or study (i.e. time taken off for treatment, pain endured while trying to study etc)
My friend has a medical condition which means that she overheats and can't cool down, and occasionally that means she has to leave class and (on really bad days) go home. Would that be enough to be considered for SEAS?
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If you have an permanent, serious medical condition, but it does not affect your learning or study, is it possible to get SEAS?
Nope, has to affect your learning or study. Need a doctors report too.
Also, I can't think of a permanent, serious medical condition that wouldn't affect your learning or study (i.e. time taken off for treatment, pain endured while trying to study etc)
My friend has a medical condition which means that she overheats and can't cool down, and occasionally that means she has to leave class and (on really bad days) go home. Would that be enough to be considered for SEAS?
I reckon, or at least a derived score if that happens in exams
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My friend has a medical condition which means that she overheats and can't cool down, and occasionally that means she has to leave class and (on really bad days) go home. Would that be enough to be considered for SEAS?
Most probably.
As you said, it happens to her during class, could possibly happen while she's at home doing homework, trying to study, could happen during SAC's, exams etc so it could have quite a significant impact on her education.
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yeh, just prove that it affects her learning etc
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If you have an permanent, serious medical condition, but it does not affect your learning or study, is it possible to get SEAS?
Nope, has to affect your learning or study. Need a doctors report too.
Also, I can't think of a permanent, serious medical condition that wouldn't affect your learning or study (i.e. time taken off for treatment, pain endured while trying to study etc)
I have a very serious life threatening condition that does not affect my learning, though occasionally time is taken off.
My mum is a GP... soo???
Stop bullshiting. I've known you for 3 years and you're perfectly healthy >.>
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If you have an permanent, serious medical condition, but it does not affect your learning or study, is it possible to get SEAS?
Nope, has to affect your learning or study. Need a doctors report too.
Also, I can't think of a permanent, serious medical condition that wouldn't affect your learning or study (i.e. time taken off for treatment, pain endured while trying to study etc)
I have a very serious life threatening condition that does not affect my learning, though occasionally time is taken off.
My mum is a GP... soo???
Take into consideration whether or not you actually need SEAS as well, don't just apply because you are eligible.
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If you have an permanent, serious medical condition, but it does not affect your learning or study, is it possible to get SEAS?
Nope, has to affect your learning or study. Need a doctors report too.
Also, I can't think of a permanent, serious medical condition that wouldn't affect your learning or study (i.e. time taken off for treatment, pain endured while trying to study etc)
I have a very serious life threatening condition that does not affect my learning, though occasionally time is taken off.
My mum is a GP... soo???
Take into consideration whether or not you actually need SEAS as well, don't just apply because you are eligible.
Are you serious??
If your eligible apply. Answering a few questions and submitting forms could mean the difference between getting in or not. Apply if you can
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Well in your honest opinion, has your illness/condition adversely affected your academic performance directly?
I know this sounds crude, but do whatever you can to get that SEAS application under your belt.
If you submit an application, but it is rejected, are there negative consequences? Just after hearing some of the stories in this thread, mine is more serious than those and those got accepted, and also , what exactly does SEAS achieve? actually alter ATAR? or just give to Unis?
Since you're going for Med I would imagine it'd be different to everyone else.
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I won't name him, but an acquaintance of mine had her mother quit her low paying job for a while, then managed to get youth allowance, which tipped his family into one of the Monash Disadvantage groups, and got himself a Merit Scholarship. Mind you to get a scholarship in his course would have required an ATAR not much lower than 99.80, which he was well below.
I have a few qualms with the Merit scholarship, quite a lot of people get in on complete bullshit claims. Most notoriously, my mate went to a private school for 9 years, lives in a Mansion in the expensive part of our suburb (houses 800K+), parents earn a lot by running a restaurant and some other business, yet somehow managed to get offered one of the scholarships by being "disadvantaged". That said I gave him so much shit for being a terrible bloke, and I like to think this is the reason he didn't accept it :P
Yeah I know someone who claimed to be aboriginal to gain SEAS or something... though he only had some very very distant relative that was actually aboriginal...
Reminds me of Andrew Bolt's court case. Not that I'm taking sides.
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Haha dammit, I was just about to post that
With respect to medical conditions and SEAS, you should apply (don't have your mother write the letter though, get an independent GP to do it). I can't think of any chronic conditions that wouldn't impact study but still give you a bonus though. I got SEAS for my condition, but it was obviously impacting/I was diagnosed in year 12 so I missed school.
They don't alter your ATAR, they just pass your impact statement to the uni to consider alongside your marks; If you get 70 and your course need 98 then no chance.
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OK so if I apply under under-represented schools, hypothetically, what would be the absolute minimum ATAR I get if the course requires a 98? Ie. would the SEAS application generally allow a 97 or somewhere around there?
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OK so if I apply under under-represented schools, hypothetically, what would be the absolute minimum ATAR I get if the course requires a 98? Ie. would the SEAS application generally allow a 97 or somewhere around there?
It also depends on the demand for the particular course. If they have space for a few more students, they might take in people who have SEAS applications.
The under-represented schools category is a bit weird sometimes. I've had friends that got in with ATARS way below (80s instead of 90), and others that missed out even though they were fairly close to the cut-off.
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OK so if I apply under under-represented schools, hypothetically, what would be the absolute minimum ATAR I get if the course requires a 98? Ie. would the SEAS application generally allow a 97 or somewhere around there?
This can't be answered, it depends entirely on what the university thinks of your circumstances. It could be 97.95 or it could be 90
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Haha dammit, I was just about to post that
With respect to medical conditions and SEAS, you should apply (don't have your mother write the letter though, get an independent GP to do it). I can't think of any chronic conditions that wouldn't impact study but still give you a bonus though. I got SEAS for my condition, but it was obviously impacting/I was diagnosed in year 12 so I missed school.
They don't alter your ATAR, they just pass your impact statement to the uni to consider alongside your marks; If you get 70 and your course need 98 then no chance.
Thanks Russ that clears things up, i'll definately follow it up.
Does SEAS have to be done in yr 11 or 12 (if starting a 3/4 in yr 11?)
It concerns entering University, and doesn't affect specific study scores, so you'll apply next year.
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Although it only works for SEAS financial disadvantage and/or rural areas in this example, an ATAR of 88 with a SEAS of one of those 2 categories would guarantee a place in Biomedicine at UoM. Should give you a rough idea at how influential SEAS can be.
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Although it only works for SEAS financial disadvantage and/or rural areas in this example, an ATAR of 88 with a SEAS of one of those 2 categories would guarantee a place in Biomedicine at UoM. Should give you a rough idea at how influential SEAS can be.
I think there was talk earlier to increased the ATAR of 88 just for biomed.
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I think there was talk earlier to increased the ATAR of 88 just for biomed.
I've read that article too. I think they'll just reduce the number of spots they reserve for SEAS applicants instead of increasing it for those 2 category SEAS applicants. Last year, I heard that local students without SEAS hitting above the cut-off mark of 95 but below the ridiculous clearly-in of 98.35 were mostly rejected by UoM; the spots were offered to other SEAS category students instead (e.g. disadvantaged school). Now they're planning to reduce the target 40% of students as SEAS entry down to 30% or something like that. My memory's a bit hazy.
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To what I heard SEAS cut off for biomed is 91 or 92
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My friend got in with 83ish. :)
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The atar for those specific categories is now 92. It's projected to reduce the number of SEAS entrants from 50% to 35%
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Hm. I was under the impression that they were reducing the number of spots reserved for SEAS instead of increasing the clearly-in ATAR score. Is the new score of 92 a cut-off mark or a guaranteed entry?
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Aren't they the same thing?
And it's definitely going to 92, which will reduce the number of spots
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Well guaranteed entry imply that, although you got less than the requirements, they still have a chance of getting in through still. A cut-off is black and white; you have to get this score or else you won't even be considered.
I'm disappointed that they decided to increase the ATAR requirement instead of just cutting down on reserving spots for SEAS applicants. : /
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Aren't they the same thing?
And it's definitely going to 92, which will reduce the number of spots
Whend does this come into effect Russ?
Surely, it won't affect current year 12s?
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http://union.unimelb.edu.au/farrago/uni-news/biomedicine-to-take-fewer-disadvantaged-students
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NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As if this will come into affect so quickly!!!! Drats!
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I approve of the change tbh, the old system clearly wasn't working
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I don't think it's fair that they will make the change official half way through the year though. But then again, if you're not studying to your maximum potential anyway, you don't really deserve assistance for your apathy. I anticipate an ATAR > 92 anyway so it doesn't change the equation for me.
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Russ, to be fair, the ATAR in general doesn't work. Although you can quote the power of the VN or whatever for helping people score highly in their VCE, the vast majority from that list of high VN achievers went to MGS/Scotch/Macrobs/MHS, so I honestly think if anything that list is a testament to the inequality in VCE, I am for the previous SEAS system, regardless of my personal background. I don't see how on earth someone educated at one of those private or selective schools can be beaten by people at public schools and I'm all for any advantage us regular kids get. As far as I'm concerned, if you went to one of the aforementioned schools that dominate entrance into medical degrees, you had absolutely every chance in your education to score 99+ and if you didn't, that is your own fault. Compare that with some of the public schools where teachers are as clueless as kids on some matters. At my friends school, the teacher opened their Specialist Mathematics class with, 'I'm going to be honest with you, we're learning this course together.'
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The thing with selective schools, they are for 'us regular kids' and there are many routes to get there if at first one does not succeed (although the routes get successively more difficult as years pass). That is the reason the government opened up John Monash, Cory and Nozzal, to give more opportunity to kids who were especially living in the outer regions of Melbourne (stereotypically the most disadvantaged areas). In addition, selective school teaching isn't as great as people make it out to be (MGS, Scotch, PLC, Ivanhoe, etc. usually leech most of our/MacRob good teachers after a few years) usually, it is the private tutors and the fierce student competition getting most of us through. There are a lot of 'dud' or 'clueless' teaches too (in areas of maths too), as with any government school.
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There are some people in those private schools who are dumb, and some people in public schools who are brilliant. But generally, whilst I do agree with you, there has to be a limit to how many advantages 'regular kids' can get. As I detailed earlier, for a person to get between an ATAR of 96-98 and get rejected by UoM for Biomed to make way for SEAS applicants just because he didn't get the clearly-in ATAR of 98.35 is ridiculous. This stretched to the point of 50% SEAS/50% normal entry to the course last year; the people who should have been offered a second round, even if their ATAR was half a point below the clearly-in, didn't get it.
There is a need for SEAS. But like with any scheme, it has loopholes that people exploit. To not patch over and improve the scheme because 'regular kids need all the advantages they can get' is something I don't agree with. Now UoM is predicted to reduce that down to 35% SEAS entries (which is still above governmental targets) is far better, even if I don't agree with the method they employ to achieve that.
Also, to say that everyone in private schools have the ability to get 99+ is crap. They don't. You have to realise that a 99+, hell even a 90+ is, in the wider scope of things, an amazing score already. They may have the resources, the epic teaching staff, the learning environment etc. but some are just not able to get 99+ without making Year 12 a living hell for themselves.
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hmm...one of my subjects wouldn't count dunno whether it would be Chemistry or Vietnamese.
Hm....I'll probably let Viet be the not counted one as I only go once a week to it anyway...
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Well guaranteed entry imply that, although you got less than the requirements, they still have a chance of getting in through still. A cut-off is black and white; you have to get this score or else you won't even be considered.
I'm disappointed that they decided to increase the ATAR requirement instead of just cutting down on reserving spots for SEAS applicants. : /
Umm, what? Guaranteed entry is just a second cutoff below the cutoff for non-SEAS applicants.
They can't cut down on reserved spots because there's no allocated number, it's based on supply and demand.
@the whole ATAR is unfair thing, well...yeah it is but you have no option other than to deal with it. Universities pick the people they think will do the best; how much you "deserve" a spot never comes into it
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Russ, to be fair, the ATAR in general doesn't work. Although you can quote the power of the VN or whatever for helping people score highly in their VCE, the vast majority from that list of high VN achievers went to MGS/Scotch/Macrobs/MHS, so I honestly think if anything that list is a testament to the inequality in VCE, I am for the previous SEAS system, regardless of my personal background. I don't see how on earth someone educated at one of those private or selective schools can be beaten by people at public schools and I'm all for any advantage us regular kids get. As far as I'm concerned, if you went to one of the aforementioned schools that dominate entrance into medical degrees, you had absolutely every chance in your education to score 99+ and if you didn't, that is your own fault. Compare that with some of the public schools where teachers are as clueless as kids on some matters. At my friends school, the teacher opened their Specialist Mathematics class with, 'I'm going to be honest with you, we're learning this course together.'
Well then you obviously haven't looked very hard. It happens every year. Last year the two highest scores at my school were 97.7 and 97.45. It's a pretty average public school with a decent history in VCE. Now are you telling me that you believe everyone from MGS/Scotch/Macrob/MHS got above 97.45..... No of course they didn't; those schools may give an advantage in that the environment is more studious (huge assumption from a public school kid) but does that really matter in the long run. Public school students have every opportunity to score as highly as those schools IF THEY WANT TO!
It just sounds that you are spiteful that they have raised the cut-off. However, the university is acting in its best interest so theres nothing you can do about it. I can imagine that some of those spots last year went to kids who slacked of and exploited their SEAS to get into the course.
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Someone really close to me passed away. And to be honest, i was totally shattered. i didnt attend school for a while and so i missed out on a lot of work. i tried my hardest to keep up and stuff, but i was grieveing for most of it and my heart and focus just wasnt on school. Does this mean i can apply for SEAS???
My Rabbit Dexie was really important to us. I even changed my facebook name permanently for him.
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On an ethical level, any death would have severe impacts on a person. But whether or not the universitites and VTAC would acknowledge the death of an animal, I'm not too sure..
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An ethical level?
I doubt the death of a pet is significant in the SEAS consideration anyway, but that was a trollish post
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Umm, what? Guaranteed entry is just a second cutoff below the cutoff for non-SEAS applicants.
They can't cut down on reserved spots because there's no allocated number, it's based on supply and demand.
Wait what? I'm genuinely confused now. Could you just reword that a bit? I thought the number of students they allowed in every year are generally the same. Then they would aim to 'reserve' some percentage of places for SEAS. Just because in one year SEAS applicants dramatically increased, they wouldn't increase that percentage of places for them (say, from 40% to 55%) just because there's more demand for it. That's what I'm thinking right now anyway.
I'm pretty sure my Physics teacher explained how they used to rank applications of people wanting to get a revised score. Whereas a death of a family member would be right at the top of that ranking (i.e. more things would be investigated, done etc.), a death of a pet would be near the bottom of that ranking (i.e. not much done at all). I can't really remember the exact details though, or even if that system is still applicable today.
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I doubt the death of a pet is significant in the SEAS consideration
Very questionable.
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well they bloody well freaken should!!
the loss of anything that you have savoured and loved throughout your life should be considered as much as a the loss of a human. this pain and loss is what makes us humans ffs! why should we distinguish between the loss of a beloved pet and a human, who might i add, can often be a negative influence on ones life! what a has a poor pet done to not be considered as special enough, that when they are gone, they change the course of your entire life!
sorry guys, getting a bit emotional and touchy at the thought of my rabbit. :(
RIP dexie.
i often like to say, "as dog is a mans' best friend, Dexie the rabbit is to kazdawgs' best friend."
WTF TROLLISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you must be a robot, some sort of INHUMANE freak.
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Dayum, good on you kazdawg. It's refreshing to see people fight for their cause! ;)
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thanks man, it just hurts me that people are insensitive enough to say hurtful things like that. That was a strong accusation, one that has no backing.
Animals, as i have said, are just as precious as humans, and anyone that thinks otherwise, is quite frankly inhumane
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further maths... that subject should be illegal!
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Wait what? I'm genuinely confused now. Could you just reword that a bit? I thought the number of students they allowed in every year are generally the same. Then they would aim to 'reserve' some percentage of places for SEAS. Just because in one year SEAS applicants dramatically increased, they wouldn't increase that percentage of places for them (say, from 40% to 55%) just because there's more demand for it. That's what I'm thinking right now anyway.
I'm not a SEAS expert, this is just based on my experiences with the system and what I've found out at uni.
I think the confusion is from the fact that it's a SEAS application that doesn't follow the normal procedure. Normally, your application is considered alongside your score and the selections department decide who to offer a place to - there's no target that they have to meet so they can control the amount of SEAS entries.
For the guaranteed entry pathway under review, if you file a SEAS application in the relevant categories you get in regardless of your circumstances (if atar > 92). So if the demand for those places dramatically increases (as happened this year, 300 people applied for it), the university has to let them all in. So it's effectively just based on whoever applies and can vary dramatically from year to year - which is what just happened and why the change was introduced
Very questionable.
Oh really? Why not then?
thanks man, it just hurts me that people are insensitive enough to say hurtful things like that. That was a strong accusation, one that has no backing.
Yes, how dare I suggest that you were trolling despite all the indicators to the contrary.
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Honestly, if the death of your pet impacts you to the extent where your study is seriously affected and entry into your course is in danger as a result...All I can say is you need to harden up.
I chewed my potato today for dinner and he was my favourite one on the plate, looking forward to automatic entry into Monash med by your standards.
Honestly do not care how much neg respect I get for this post, to think that someone wants their Uni place ahead of me because a pet died... FFS
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Honestly, if the death of your pet impacts you to the extent where your study is seriously affected and entry into your course is in danger as a result...All I can say is you need to harden up.
I chewed my potato today for dinner and he was my favourite one on the plate, looking forward to automatic entry into Monash med by your standards.
That was an incredibly unnecessary and insensitive post.
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Ghost, if you bet someone in your ATAR by 10 points and they got the place you didn't because their pet died, what would you say?
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Ghost, if you bet someone in your ATAR by 10 points and they got the place you didn't because their pet died, what would you say?
We'd have alot of abuse of this system.
And then we'd have discrimination,
Does the value of a goldfish hold equivalence to a dog as pets? The complexity!
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I ate my fish when it died....
Joke.
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Ghost, if you bet someone in your ATAR by 10 points and they got the place you didn't because their pet died, what would you say?
Certainly wouldn't publicly belittle their loss.
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He's using the death of his pet to gain entry into a course, that's not a loss, he's immorally exploiting his pet for gain in this situation. Unless, your suggesting his ability to study in year 12 has been genuinely impacted by the death of a rabbit to the point where he deserves people like you or me's uni place?
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He's using the death of his pet to gain entry into a course, that's not a loss, he's immorally exploiting his pet for gain in this situation. Unless, your suggesting his ability to study in year 12 has been genuinely impacted by the death of a rabbit to the point where he deserves people like you or me's uni place?
I can't see why not. People cry over pets. Crying has a negative emotional effect with biological release of depressing hormones/neurotransmitters.
Just because you and I don't care about animals doesn't mean others don't.
I applaud those who can resist meat. Ah, meat. Meat...:P
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He's using the death of his pet to gain entry into a course, that's not a loss, he's immorally exploiting his pet for gain in this situation. Unless, your suggesting his ability to study in year 12 has been genuinely impacted by the death of a rabbit to the point where he deserves people like you or me's uni place?
I can't see why not. People cry over pets. Crying has a negative emotional effect with biological release of depressing hormones/neurotransmitters.
Just because you and I don't care about animals doesn't mean others don't.
I applaud those who can resist meat. Ah, meat. Meat...:P
Does the value of a goldfish hold equivalence to a dog as pets?
So , we are meant to have a criteria, to measure depression over pets.
Fantastic.
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All pets are equal in their own right ;D
...but Snakes rule.
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People cry all the time, it's part of life. ATAR that is quite possibly the weakest argument you have presented ever. Are you suggesting anybody who cries in the state deserves a Uni place ahead of you?
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People cry all the time, it's part of life. ATAR that is quite possibly the weakest argument you have presented ever. Are you suggesting anybody who cries in the state deserves a Uni place ahead of you?
Are you taking me literally? I thought it was quite clear I was not serious >.>
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All pets are equal in their own right ;D
...but Snakes rule.
So, if I have many goldfish pets die, does that boost my SEAS priority?. Obviously, I have suffered much more than other people have.
PS: Lol, you were joking, nvmmm xD
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He's using the death of his pet to gain entry into a course, that's not a loss, he's immorally exploiting his pet for gain in this situation. Unless, your suggesting his ability to study in year 12 has been genuinely impacted by the death of a rabbit to the point where he deserves people like you or me's uni place?
I can't comprehend why you're arguing so viciously over kazdawg's post. They don't have a SEAS grant! They aren't exploiting the loss of their pet, because back here in reality the loss of a pet doesn't qualify for an exemption into University.
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Ghost, if you bet someone in your ATAR by 10 points and they got the place you didn't because their pet died, what would you say?
It's a fair point,
someone from my school got 88 last year and got into biomed.
I could only imagine how many people who got a few below the cutoff and didn't make it, it's quite unfair in some cases.. not like everyone has a perfect house-hold.
I've heard of stories with blind people and other disabilities get in the high 90's.
As far as i see it, unless you're in and out of hospital daily, or something else tragic, you shouldn't have such a big advantage over other kids.
This doesn't go to say that I won't use it should i need to in futuro .
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Yes but he was enquiring whether it would or wouldn't, surely if it would produce a SEAS grant, he would plan to utilise it.
If it would produce and SEAS grant and he isn't planning on utilising it, surely that is trolling?
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Yes but he was enquiring whether it would or wouldn't, surely if it would produce a SEAS grant, he would plan to utilise it.
If it would produce and SEAS grant and he isn't planning on utilising it, surely that is trolling?
It's all hypothetical. A SEAS would never be granted because of the loss of a pet, you know that. Therefore, everything you have said so far has been erroneous and unnecessary.
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I believe Ghost! was just trying to tell you (Bonifaco) to done town your insensitivity to kazdawg....
....I highly doubt he was arguing for pets to be considered for SEAS.
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Just from a philosophical point of view, when do you cease drawing the line.
Human
Dog
Cat
Hamster
Mouse
Fish
Butterfly
Bee
Ant
Polyp
Shrub
Rose
Grass
Rock
Wood
Dirt
Poo
I bet my Poo can grant me SEAS, its special Poo.
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Lock in 3,2,1
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Lock in 3,2,1
Active discussion is still ongoing...:P
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Very cute.
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Yes but he was enquiring whether it would or wouldn't, surely if it would produce a SEAS grant, he would plan to utilise it.
If it would produce and SEAS grant and he isn't planning on utilising it, surely that is trolling?
It's all hypothetical. A SEAS would never be granted because of the loss of a pet, you know that. Therefore, everything you have said so far has been erroneous and unnecessary.
If you just admitted that a SEAS would never be granted because of the loss of a pet, why on earth would he bother to ask that? What's hypothetical about it?
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Very cute.
I know, right. 8-)
I believe Ghost! was just trying to tell you (Bonifaco) to done town your insensitivity to kazdawg....
....I highly doubt he was arguing for pets to be considered for SEAS.
Read that again Boni.
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Someone really close to me passed away. And to be honest, i was totally shattered. i didnt attend school for a while and so i missed out on a lot of work. i tried my hardest to keep up and stuff, but i was grieveing for most of it and my heart and focus just wasnt on school. Does this mean i can apply for SEAS???
My Rabbit Dexie was really important to us. I even changed my facebook name permanently for him.
'Ghost' are you telling me that the above post was not inquiring as to whether they would qualify for an SEAS grant and it was all hypothetical?
'iNe', my name is not Boni, I am not being insensitive to him, I offer him my condolances on his loss, yet I don't feel he is treating his pet with the solemnity it deserves.
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'iNe', my name is not Boni, I am not being insensitive to him, I offer him my condolances on his loss, yet I don't feel he is treating his pet with the solemnity it deserves.
Oh for pete's sake, your name isn't Bonifacio either; besides Boni is easier/faster for me to type.
And if you want to abbreviate for me: ATAR goes to AT. I don't see how ATAR goes to iNe.
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For someone who used to post stressing his username was iNerd and not INERD, Inerd or iNERD, I think you should appreciate the importance of name. For pete's sake, your name isn't iNerd either.
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For someone who used to post stressing his username was iNerd and not INERD, Inerd or iNERD, I think you should appreciate the importance of name. For pete's sake, your name isn't iNerd either.
You can call me Wat instead of Water
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For someone who used to post stressing his username was iNerd and not INERD, Inerd or Inerd, I think you should appreciate the importance of name. For pete's sake, your name isn't iNerd either.
No my name isn't iNerd. I didn't say it was - you said your name was Bonifacio.
iNerd no longer exists - your argument is invalid. I am now ATAR or AT if you wish.
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Yes but he was enquiring whether it would or wouldn't, surely if it would produce a SEAS grant, he would plan to utilise it.
If it would produce and SEAS grant and he isn't planning on utilising it, surely that is trolling?
It's all hypothetical. A SEAS would never be granted because of the loss of a pet, you know that. Therefore, everything you have said so far has been erroneous and unnecessary.
If you just admitted that a SEAS would never be granted because of the loss of a pet, why on earth would he bother to ask that? What's hypothetical about it?
I stated that a SEAS would never be granted because of the loss of a pet... not kazdawg, the person who posted the question? I don't see why my knowledge of SEAS and kazdawg's question have to do with one another, we aren't the same person...
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For someone who used to post stressing his username was iNerd and not INERD, Inerd or iNERD, I think you should appreciate the importance of name. For pete's sake, your name isn't iNerd either.
You can call me Wat instead of Water
Wat?
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Wow what has this thread turned into?....
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This pete seems to be a popular guy
As much as I hate to admit it, that made me LOL.
Good one "Baz" :P
Wow what has this thread turned into?....
Well swar(ley) it seems to be a very fascinating discussion on a combination of Wat's special poo and pets mingled with SEAS!
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http://vce.atarnotes.com/forum/index.php/topic,36034.0.html
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Reading those last few pages have been the biggest waste of time ever. Do I apply for SEAS for reading you guys indulging the trolls?
Seriously, get back on topic or take it elsewhere.
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In all honesty if you want a close to the topic:
Bonifacio was insentive towards kazdawg.
Ghost! chided him for his insensitivity.
Bonifcaio retaliated.
That went back and forth.
Meanwhile ATAR, Bazza and Water had a bit of fun ;)
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Anyways back to original topic - taking a VET is possibly the best VCE choice you could make.
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Anyways back to original topic - taking a VET is possibly the best VCE choice you could make.
In all respect, I disagree as not everyone is interested in what VET offers. I think the best choice you can make is to not disregard English.
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Anyways back to original topic - taking a VET is possibly the best VCE choice you could make.
In all respect, I disagree as not everyone is interested in what VET offers. I think the best choice you can make is to not disregard English.
By "offers" are you taking content-wise? I was talking benefit-wise >.>
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Topic locked whilst I investigate what's been going on.
EDIT: Unlocked, but seriously guys, act your age...
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Anyways back to original topic - taking a VET is possibly the best VCE choice you could make.
In all respect, I disagree as not everyone is interested in what VET offers. I think the best choice you can make is to not disregard English.
By "offers" are you taking content-wise? I was talking benefit-wise >.>
I think subjects should be chosen on interest first, and then benefits later.
We wouldn't want everyone doing three dead languages now, would we? (just coz of benefits)
Clearly you enjoy VET (or I hope you do), but not everyone would. English however, is something be all must endure in some form.
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VET IS DA BOMB!
Anyone interested in Med should do VET: Allied Health accompanied by benefits including:
1. No exams
2. 3 hours a week
3. Avg of your primary 4 scaled (5th subject)
4. Cert III in Allied Health (legal qualification)
5....well girls naturally :P
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Easy subjects + Prerequisites.
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Someone really close to me passed away. And to be honest, i was totally shattered. i didnt attend school for a while and so i missed out on a lot of work. i tried my hardest to keep up and stuff, but i was grieveing for most of it and my heart and focus just wasnt on school. Does this mean i can apply for SEAS???
My Rabbit Dexie was really important to us. I even changed my facebook name permanently for him.
This had me in tears I am so sorry for your loss :(
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VET IS DA BOMB!
Anyone interested in Med should do VET: Allied Health accompanied by benefits including:
1. No exams
2. 3 hours a week
3. Avg of your primary 4 scaled (5th subject)
4. Cert III in Allied Health (legal qualification)
5....well girls naturally :P
WOW, I had no idea about point number 3. I would surely have done a VET had I known of this, I have heaps of mates doing VET and honestly, they don't do anything.
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Remember that's only for VETs with no exams/study scores...
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Regardless, I'm sure there's plenty to choose from!
Honestly, ATAR, I'm impressed,might alert my little brother to these advantages.
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Regardless, I'm sure there's plenty to choose from!
Honestly, ATAR, I'm impressed,might alert my little brother to these advantages.
I over-exaggerate....there is work....just not assessed work if you know what I mean.
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To be fair, that's not a huge advantage. The difference between a 50 and a 30 for a 5th subject is really only important for differentiating between xx.00 and xx.05. I mean every edge you can get is nice, but I wouldn't choose a VET solely on that basis (it'd have to interest me and since I never did one, I can't comment)
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VET's are only really good if there is a VET that you like doing, it softens the workload but I know a chill friend of mine who took up a Unit 2 subject during his frees because he felt he was getting nothing out of them.
Also, I don't really recommend doing BM with the idea that it's bludgy and it's easy either, sure it is, but it's also extremely boring and simplistic, which is perfectly fine if you're willing to put up with that, but i'm just saying. And again, fair few friends finding BM work tedious due to it's straight forward nature, same thing applies to PE.
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Yeah a few of my friends have taken up further saying "oh it's so easy... I'm going to get over 45 for sure..."
Don't think people realise that a lot of "bludge" subjects are hard to do well in because so many intelligent kids do them, and do well, because they are so easy...
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Honestly, imo the most important factors in deciding what you wanna do is:
(1) Prerequisites for the courses you're considering.
(2) What you like / Scaling.
(3) Everything else, teachers, workload, etc....
Number 1 is pretty straightforward, but I can see 2 being pretty contentious as I've ranked scaling equal to the subjects you enjoy. Well, let's say you're fluent in a language, can read and write but you don't particularly like the language itself - you'd be pretty dumb to pass up the opportunity to do it in VCE purely because of the scaling you'd get by studying it. Similarly, if you're good enough to do Spec. but don't particularly like the subject, it wouldn't be the smartest decision to not do it because of the relatively high scaling it gets. Contrastingly, you'll never do as well on a subject you hate as a subject you love, so if you think your passions are Theatre Studies, Media and Art, then you may as well do them and who knows, you might even get a 50.
My own subject choices reflect a mix of what I enjoy (Biology, Maths), what I think I can do well in but I don't particularly like (Accounting atm), and Chemistry, which I'm only doing because I need it for Medicine if I choose to go down that path. In the end though, the best advice I can give with my limited year 11 knowledge is to forget what's easy / hard, it's to (a) figure out what you needa do for the courses you wanna get into (scaling / prereqs) and then (b) figure out what you actually WANT to learn.
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In an ideal word I'd drop Specialist for Uni Psych but that isn't allowed due to VET :-\
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In an ideal word I'd drop Specialist for Uni Psych but that isn't allowed due to VET :-\
Uni Psych over Spesh!?!? Wouldn't that mean that your other 4 subjects would definitely be in top 4 (if you were allowed to do uni psych that is). Personally, I'd want a bit more flexibility with my top 4.
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In an ideal word I'd drop Specialist for Uni Psych but that isn't allowed due to VET :-\
Uni Psych over Spesh!?!? Wouldn't that mean that your other 4 subjects would definitely be in top 4 (if you were allowed to do uni psych that is). Personally, I'd want a bit more flexibility with my top 4.
Yeah I think that's why it's not allowed....:/
Either way I'm dropping Specialist...but for what, only time will tell.
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Did a subject that I didn't necessarily like, but was one of my stronger subjects (Physics). If VCE wasn't so bloody competitive, I'd probably take Revs or Eco. I'd enjoy the subjects, even though I'd suck at those.
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In an ideal word I'd drop Specialist for Uni Psych but that isn't allowed due to VET :-\
Uni Psych over Spesh!?!? Wouldn't that mean that your other 4 subjects would definitely be in top 4 (if you were allowed to do uni psych that is). Personally, I'd want a bit more flexibility with my top 4.
Yeah I think that's why it's not allowed....:/
Either way I'm dropping Specialist...but for what, only time will tell.
I would recc bio, if you're keen on med I've seen quite a few medkids go through a bit of strife in order to make up for their lack of vce bio
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If VCE wasn't so bloody competitive, I'd probably take Revs or Eco. I'd enjoy the subjects, even though I'd suck at those.
lol, I wish I had taken eco instead of bio last year...
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You want to do med right? you'll be thankful you did bio
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You want to do med right? you'll be thankful you did bio
Maybe, thats IF I get in (unlikely, seeing as how lazy my UMAT prep has got :( )
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If VCE wasn't so bloody competitive, I'd probably take Revs or Eco. I'd enjoy the subjects, even though I'd suck at those.
lol, I wish I had taken eco instead of bio last year...
.
Economics is winnn brruuhhh
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You want to do med right? you'll be thankful you did bio
Maybe, thats IF I get in (unlikely, seeing as how lazy my UMAT prep has got :( )
Better than me, i'm doing almost NO UMAT prep. Then again, if I pass UMAT, then okay. If I don't, well, perhaps I shouldn't be a doctor in the first place.
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You want to do med right? you'll be thankful you did bio
Maybe, thats IF I get in (unlikely, seeing as how lazy my UMAT prep has got :( )
Better than me, i'm doing almost NO UMAT prep. Then again, if I pass UMAT, then okay. If I don't, well, perhaps I shouldn't be a doctor in the first place.
I disagree with that assessment - the UMAT is not an indicator of your ability to be a doctor.
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You reckon?
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You reckon?
Personal opinion substantiated by the fact that Qld has totally eradicated it and the fact that other unis take in Med students who all successfully become graduates with a <93 UMAT percentile.
It's just a test to screen the thousands of people and leave you with a number you can deal with it.
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You reckon?
Personal opinion substantiated by the fact that Qld has totally eradicated it and the fact that other unis take in Med students who all successfully become graduates with a <93 UMAT percentile.
It's just a test to screen the thousands of people and leave you with a number you can deal with it.
You still need it to get into UoQ dont you?...
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Definitely agreeing with ATAR there, it's just cutting down students to a number that they can handle.
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You reckon?
Personal opinion substantiated by the fact that Qld has totally eradicated it and the fact that other unis take in Med students who all successfully become graduates with a <93 UMAT percentile.
It's just a test to screen the thousands of people and leave you with a number you can deal with it.
You still need it to get into UoQ dont you?...
Unsure - I read some article in OGD that Qld was scrapping it...
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Not at Monash. UMAT is almost a hurdle requirement. If your UMAT score is below the cutoff (93 percentile last year I think) the chance of you getting to Monash med is zero, because you won't be invited to an interview. Unless you get a perfect score.
Damn Monash...and damn ACER.
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Not at Monash. UMAT is almost a hurdle requirement. If your UMAT score is below the cutoff (93 percentile last year I think) the chance of you getting to Monash med is zero, because you won't be invited to an interview. Unless you get a perfect score.
Damn Monash...and damn ACER.
I don't get you.
It's like you're asking me to tell you that you'll get 99.95, you don't need to focus on the UMAT and you'll be fine...:P
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You reckon?
Personal opinion substantiated by the fact that Qld has totally eradicated it and the fact that other unis take in Med students who all successfully become graduates with a <93 UMAT percentile.
It's just a test to screen the thousands of people and leave you with a number you can deal with it.
You still need it to get into UoQ dont you?...
Unsure - I read some article in OGD that Qld was scrapping it...
Oh right that. I dont think they'll be implementing that for a while...
Anyway Thushan you will do fine :)
If there wasnt an external exam like the UMAT then most students who get into monash mbbs will be the 99+... I dont think that's a good idea, because it will contain students who have gotten that high score but because their atar allows them to enter med, they will and they probably wont have the passion to do it. Whereas the UMAT allows those who are willing to put in the hard yards to get into med.
I know that you can look at the other side of the coin and say there are 99+s whose dreams are to get into med, but their UMAT is less than the required, hence, they are rejected. But if it is truly their desire to get into med then they will find another alternative and they will succeed in doing so.
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And there are those who pull 95+ without doing shit all
Too bad I'm not that type :(
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Not at Monash. UMAT is almost a hurdle requirement. If your UMAT score is below the cutoff (93 percentile last year I think) the chance of you getting to Monash med is zero, because you won't be invited to an interview. Unless you get a perfect score.
Damn Monash...and damn ACER.
I don't get you.
It's like you're asking me to tell you that you'll get 99.95, you don't need to focus on the UMAT and you'll be fine...:P
Oh ATAR i think you took me the wrong way here.
I was just frustrated that Monash's method is too heavily focused on the UMAT, that's all. Like if someone does brilliantly on ATAR (we'll say 99.50) and would have done brilliantly on the interview, but has zero chance of getting to med because he/she got say 92nd percentile on UMAT.
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@ Swarley:
UMAT is fine (although I'm a little sceptical of Section 3). Only issue (as I explained in the previous post) is that effectively UMAT determines whether you have a chance of making Med or not for Monash.
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@ Swarley:
UMAT is fine (although I'm a little sceptical of Section 3). Only issue (as I explained in the previous post) is that effectively UMAT determines whether you have a chance of making Med or not for Monash.
I can see where you're coming from, but like i said earlier, if this individual's dream is to get into med then they will find a way. Altho it may be a few years longer, if it is their desire then they will get there.
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Not at Monash. UMAT is almost a hurdle requirement. If your UMAT score is below the cutoff (93 percentile last year I think) the chance of you getting to Monash med is zero, because you won't be invited to an interview. Unless you get a perfect score.
Damn Monash...and damn ACER.
are you sure? The interviews are held before people receive their ATAR, so is there like a round 2 for interviews or something?
UMAT is practically an IQ test (with an emotional assessment too).. so maybe the med students have to study immensely convoluted information etc. Who knows though.. Graduate med is more popular than undergrad worldwide, so i too would assume that the umat is there to create a 2nd set of rankings so that they can handle the # of students applying.
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Not at Monash. UMAT is almost a hurdle requirement. If your UMAT score is below the cutoff (93 percentile last year I think) the chance of you getting to Monash med is zero, because you won't be invited to an interview. Unless you get a perfect score.
Damn Monash...and damn ACER.
are you sure? The interviews are held before people receive their ATAR, so is there like a round 2 for interviews or something?
UMAT is practically an IQ test (with an emotional assessment too).. so maybe the med students have to study immensely convoluted information etc. Who knows though.. Graduate med is more popular than undergrad worldwide, so i too would assume that the umat is there to create a 2nd set of rankings so that they can handle the # of students applying.
Same. I thought it didn't matter if you got a perfect ATAR... if you didn't have the UMAT score, then you couldn't get in.
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You can fill out a form before getting your ATAR if you think you might get 99.95. If you do, they (Monash) will invite you back. Thats what I picked up from an open day.
Oh, and they also use you predicted ATAR for interviews too. So someone with a predicted ATAR of 80 and a UMAT of 100th percentile will not be given an interview...
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You can fill out a form before getting your ATAR if you think you might get 99.95. If you do, they (Monash) will invite you back. Thats what I picked up from an open day.
Oh, and they also use you predicted ATAR for interviews too. So someone with a predicted ATAR of 80 and a UMAT of 100th percentile will not be given an interview...
what's this predicted ATAR and when do you get it?
Do they base this on like the GAT or like past year 12 subs?
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Doesnt your school give a predicted atar?
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Predicted ATARs are made during the year when your teachers predict your study scores. tbh it shouldn't have any impact because its a prediction.
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Doesnt your school give a predicted atar?
When are they supposed to?
I don't have any knowledge of this, I always thought it was like the higher ranked schools who did this
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I think all schools do it. They're not normally given to students afaik. I was stressing about my ATAR last year and my A.P walked me through my predicted scores and what my ATAR would be.... Which I later laughed about at lunch time
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http://www.med.monash.edu.au/medical/central/entry-schemes.html#7
"Dean's Excellence Scholarship Applicants"
that section explains it.