ATAR Notes: Forum
VCE Stuff => VCE Health and Physical Education => VCE Arts/Humanities/Health => VCE Subjects + Help => VCE Physical Education => Topic started by: transgression on September 24, 2008, 08:24:06 pm
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Hey guys, I would be greatly appreciated if someone helped be with a question or two. PE isn't my forte, and I wish to improve by asking as many questions as I can (similar with the method threads).
I just finished the '07 vcaa paper and I came across something that I didn't really understand.
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After reading the examiner's report, it made [some] sense, but I was wondering how you could tell if line A was "Total energy supply". (I now understand line C)
I know I will be asking more questions in the upcoming week, and during this study break.
Thanks!
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Line A is the sum of the other three. I hope that helps in some way :P
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Hey, i'm doing PE as well this year... so ask me as many questions as you can,.
Yeah A is the total energy supply.
It is simply a graph you would have seen in your textbook some where, just in this instance they've removed the labels which describe each line.
Which textbook are you using?
Chad.
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Line A is the sum of the other three. I hope that helps in some way :P
Line A and Line D look the same, so use caramel's finding to conclude that A is the total energy supply, and D must be one of the components of energy supply? (Knows nothing about P.E. - knows something about logic and the learning process :P)
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Line A is the sum of the other three. I hope that helps in some way :P
Line A and Line D look the same, so use caramel's finding to conclude that A is the total energy supply, and D must be one of the components of energy supply? (Knows nothing about P.E. - knows something about logic and the learning process :P)
Line A= Total Energy Supply
Line B= Aerobic System Contribution
Line C= ATP-PC System Contribution
Line D= Lactic Acid System Contribution
If you got that right, be happy because only 10% of people last year got full marks for that part of the question! I think most people would've just rushed reading the graph, and therefore misinterpreted it.
And why does it follow each other (A and D)... The Aerobic System has hit its max.
The ATP-PC system is depleted.
So therefore the only energy available to be produced is from the Aerobic System, which has steadied, and whatever the LA system can produce on top of that.
Similar to the question of...how can an athlete work at above 100% V02 max? If you can answer that, that should help.
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So, if an athlete can work above their VO2 max, does that mean they are working anaerobically?
I kind of understand why/how it happens, but struggle so much when putting it into words...
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Yes, when they use the anaerobic energy systems in addition to the aerobic system you are able to work at levels above V02 max.
Tends to be the LA system, because the ATP-PC system has not had time to replenish its PC stores.
Also, make sure you know what V02 max levels are usually associated with different types of athletes, not exactly right, just a brief understanding.
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just that higher vo2 max = endurance athletes using aerobic system and all that? not like the exact numbers?
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You need to know roughly the exact numbers.
e.g. give me a figure for the V02max for an endurance athlete, and also a cardiac patient.
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Hmm, endurance athlete should have ~60+
And cardiac patient maybe....35-40 ish ??
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Pretty much yeah..
Really good endurance athletes e.g. freak kenyans and lance armstrong have upto 90ish
But you know enough.
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:D awesome!
well. complete change of topic, but... in regards to weights/resistance training, do we need to know all the %RM, and how to train all the specific components
i.e the number of sets/reps for LME vs Muscular Power?
cos I've seen past questions about having to identify problems with the program and how to correct it, but yeah not quite sure about this one ?
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Hmm, endurance athlete should have ~60+
And cardiac patient maybe....35-40 ish ??
I don't do physical education, but what do these numbers refer to? I am interested to know lol.
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VO2 maximum:
the maximum amount of oxygen that can be taken up, transported and utalized (extracted by the muscles) per minute. Expressed in mL/kg/minute.
So it's pretty much the athletes aerobic capacity.
A higher VO2 max is better...
I think I've covered most things?
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V02 max, the max amount of oxygen that can be taken up, transported and utilised per minute.
Measured in ml/min/kg.
The average untrained male has about 45.
Females 38.
The best in the world is around 96, and is recorded by cross-country skiers.
Yeah good work mel, you posted while i was typing!
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VO2 max = aerobic capacity (capacity of an individual's body to transport and utilize oxygen)
The numbers are the measures of which a normal athlete may receive when testing their VO2 max. This is usually tested under lab conditions and my friend was lucky enough to get her VO2 max tested.
Average untrained athlete may have a 45 VO2 max, and trained athletes have around 75 (but many go up to 90 or so). It is important to note that females and males will have different capacity ranges
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Haha, you guys posed while i was typing as well
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:D awesome!
well. complete change of topic, but... in regards to weights/resistance training, do we need to know all the %RM, and how to train all the specific components
i.e the number of sets/reps for LME vs Muscular Power?
cos I've seen past questions about having to identify problems with the program and how to correct it, but yeah not quite sure about this one ?
I assume so. I think there was a table in Nelson....
By the way chodadude, I'm using Nelson, but also have Live It Up
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Yeah i'm using Smyth, but also use Malpeli...each are better for different topics IMO.
And yes you need to know the different aspects of different weights training programs, its quite easy really.
I promise you will need to know the table in some way for the exam.
Power, LME & Strength.
Freq, reps, weights, speed....
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I don't really understand part A, but I do for part B as I got this part right.
The answer for part A was: "There is a finite capacity for oxygen deficit which is reached (or almost reached) in these three events."
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?
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I need help with answering this, as I have no idea what type of action it is. Also, do we need to know the type of actions for the exam? I don't remember reading anything about this.
Thankies
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OK, for the first one:
They all have the same oxygen deficit because the oxygen deficit occurs when an athlete works anaerobically. Because the anaerobic systems have a finite capacity, they all use their anaerobic systems for the same duration... does that make sense?
So they all switch over to aerobic once the anaerobic is exhausted, and because they are all sort of middle distance events, they are all likely to switch over to their aerobic system during their event, hence having the same amount of oxygen deficit.
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The second question:
more energy is released aerobically than anaerobically is basically because there is oxygen present.
With oxygen present, means that further breakdown of the glucose can occur.
Do you have the answers for that question? I'm not quite sure how much depth you would need to go into for 2 marks.
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The third one:
Its an isotonic contraction. I think that might be it.
Further depth its a concentric isotonic contraction because the abdominal muscle is shortening.
As for knowing them for the exam, I think we may need to know the 3 different types
- isometric = no change in muscle length eg pushing against a wall, gripping a tennis racket
- isotonic = change in muscle length, concentric = shortens eg bicep in a bicep curl and eccentric = lengthening e.g. tricep when conducting a bicep curl
- isokinetic = same force throughout the whole movements - can only be done with a machine
I'm pretty sure we do need to know it!
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hmm on second thoughts... the answer could be flexion? because it's asking the 'action' of the truck...
but i have no idea!
where are these questions from / do you have the answers?
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Second question answer: Because the molecule is not fully broken down. The lactic acid produced in anaerobic glycolysis still contains some energy.
Third question answer: Flexion
I thought it was the the types as well (the ones you listed).
Thanks for you help :)
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oooh yep. For the second question, because there is no oxygen present, then the molecule can't be fully broken down, hence the waste products etc etc
Awesome :)
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Re Question 2:
Glycolysis is the conversion of Glucose into Pyruvic acid to form ATP (2 molecules). In aerobic glycolysis, the oxygen allows the pyruvic acid to be converted into ATP (another 36 molecules) in the mitochondria. If there is no oxygen present then the pyruvic acid is merely converted into lactic acid, however when oxygen becomes available the LA can be eventually removed and converted into energy aswell.
Hope that makes sense.
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Re Question 2
Anaerobic glycolysis breaks the glucose down forming pyruvic acid and 2 ATP molecules becuase there is no oxygen present the pyruvic acid is transformed into lactic acid
Aerobic glycolysis breaks the glucose down forming pyruvic acid and 2 ATP molecules then because oxygen is present its is able break the pyruvic acid down further producing 36 ATP molecules
Re Question 3
Its definitely flexion because the questions asking u for the action of the trunk not the muscular contraction from position 1 to position 2. Usually PE questions are pretty basic and dont need to be analysed to heavily.
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Thanks!
I have a few other questions. Can someone please explain the concept of:
- Athletes having the ability to work at a intensity greater than 100% of their Vo2 max
- How you would work out the work:rest ratio if given a table with information
Ie,
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VO2 Max. This is the one that always stumps me. I understand it in my head, but I can never write it out.
Ok, so an athlete working above their VO2 max, must be working anaerobically, as VO2 max is in reference to oxygen. The body is uptaking, transporting and utalising as much oxygen as it can, so to produce higher intensities it must switch to the anaerobic system.
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With the work:rest ratio, they'll give you easy data to work with, so add up all the top row, and the bottom row, and then simplify it til you get the smallest fraction.
So for your example, my brief adding up (may be wrong but close enough)
got 93:60
which is close to 90/60
which is a 2:1 WR ratio
Pretty sure thats right, got answers?
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Nope, no answers but I think you're correct.
Thanks for the help!
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In past exams in reply to the question: 'How can an athlete work above 100% V02 max?'
You can simply say: 'By working anaerobically' or something as simple...
Add up all the work periods, and add up all the rest periods...might be something like work = 93 rest=60 (if you include low)
so 93/60 = 1.55:1 = Aerobic dominant...
ATP = 1:4+
LA = 1:2-1:3
02 = 2:1-1:2
Do I include low intensity activity as 'work'? Haven't thought about this before....in an exam i would include it... depending on the total of the work and rest that is...
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How do you work this out?
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Ahhh at first i was stumped. But don't be distracted by the ml/kg shit. Look at the total energy release.
Notice how its 100 and the contribution fromthe aerobic and anaerobic systems are 50% each.
So all you need to do is figure out the proportion for the other times.
Note: I had to check my book cos I never bothered to memorise them
But the answers are:
Duration: 120s, Total Energy Released: 150, Aerobic: 65% (about 100 ml/kg), Anaerobic: 35% (~ 50 ml/kg)
Duration: 180s, Total Energy Released: 200, Aerobic: 75% (150 ml/kg), Anaerobic: 25% (50 ml/kg)
BTW: I sure hope this question or something similar doesn't pop up, it's a bitch to "calculate" using my maths-illiterate head
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Yep! Thanks, I actually figured it out after I posted it. It is clearer now.
This was actually on last year's vcaa exam - where around 67% of students got 0 marks out of 4 or something.
It is also about FINITE CAPACITY, which i thought was interesting. The report also talked about how in previous years, students were able to relate finite capacity, but when they change the form around (like this), we actually don't. I see what they mean :(
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I sorta thought if you read the question properly you didn't need any PE knowledge whatsoever.
In the question it mentions something along the lines of: 'In each event the Anaerobic Systems were completely exhausted'
Look at 'row 1'...50 Anaerobic (Exhausted)
All the rest must be the same as the question gave us the answer ;)
Finite capacity will probably be on the exam again, 'cos kids never get it right.
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How would you justify: that in a endurance performer, lactate threshold is a better predictor of performance compared to Vo2 max?
Also:
What types of food (High Vs Low GI) would be suited -
Short event (10 minutes), 3-4 hours prior to event, 1-2 prior to event, and after event.
Marathon, 3-4 hours prior to event, 1-2 prior to event, and after event.
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Short events = normal glycogen stores are sufficient
Marathon: 3-4hours before = Low GI due to sustained release of glucose
1-2hours before i'd say don't eat food really
after High GI
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I sorta thought if you read the question properly you didn't need any PE knowledge whatsoever.
In the question it mentions something along the lines of: 'In each event the Anaerobic Systems were completely exhausted'
Look at 'row 1'...50 Anaerobic (Exhausted)
All the rest must be the same as the question gave us the answer ;)
Finite capacity will probably be on the exam again, 'cos kids never get it right.
shit! I falled for it haha! Interesting how my answer kinda contridicts vcaa's obsession with finite capacity. I thought there was always interplay from all energy systems, even after "exhaustion"
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shit! I falled for it haha! Interesting how my answer kinda contridicts vcaa's obsession with finite capacity. I thought there was always interplay from all energy systems, even after "exhaustion"
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You are right.
Nothing in the body is ever depleted, as far as i know.
So yes both the ATP-PC system and LA system will be working, but it will be at an extremely low amount compared to the aerobic system.
And isn't really considered a meaningful contribution.