ATAR Notes: Forum
Administration => Site Discussion => General Site Discussion => Topic started by: cara.mel on October 18, 2008, 08:42:57 am
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I have asked this before and been ignored (more than once) so I will again up the visibleness ante :P
I don't have much to add from my previous posts (and any subsequent replies I have made on these threads):
It's enwiabe, not Enwiable.
enwiabe complied with the cease and desist letter, from what I know.
Enwiabe complies with them but he thinks it is perfectly acceptable to allow stuff to be uploaded *until* he gets told otherwise.
I remember back when the site started, any posts with links to company exams were deleted. Now it is actually encouraged...
Enwiabe, if you ignore all my other questions, please tell me why your stance on it has changed from a year ago.
Talking about trial/practise exams, I will try to scan my Spesh exams and put them up here so fsn students can benefit from it ;)
I'd ask that you don't... Copyright infringement and such. :P
Enwiabe, why has your stance changed since then?
I KNEW it had, now I have proof :D
Also, respond to this:
http://vcenotes.com/forum/index.php/topic,5412.msg65334.html#msg65334
Why do you allow/encourage us to plagurise, whether it be VCE exams or otherwise?
This is a slightly more visible thread so please dignify it with a response.
Note: I am not going DKFHGKJSFH TAKE THEM DOWN NOW BECAUSE YOU ARE TEH SUCK, I just want to know why.
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Perhaps because we live in a society where intellectual property theft has become socially acceptable? MP3 distribution and torrents and such have paved the way for it really... As for why enwiabe doesn't worry about the legal side of it for his own sake, does he even have any legal stake in this? Or is only the uploader liable? Perhaps thats why =P WE AWAITETH THE GREAT ENWIABE'S WORDS.
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Because NO ONE BLOODY CARES except for stuck ups that is
/thread
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If one was stuck up, and thus one cared for an answer, would they be entitled to one or not?
Or: If one was stuck up, would they still be entitled for their existence to be acknowledged?
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Because enwiabe can try to plead ignorance to other people's posts. Also, he may not read the forums enough to notice. I'm pretty sure the terms and conditions of the site try to disclaim his responsibility from other people's posts.
If he is C&D'd though, he will take them down.
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If he is C&D'd though, he will take them down.
Yeah I know that part (I said it in my september post :) ), I just want to understand what the thinking is to let it go before he is told off for it.
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Because he supports free file sharing.
Personally, I think its the consumer response to excessive prices (i.e., what we would be paying private companies for their music, software etc).
Of course, when faced with a legal threat (VCENotes is owned or operated by a private limited company), enwiabe would be personally liable and evidently would be in his best interests to remove infringing documents.
My personal opinion is, if you wanna share - do it. Just not in public view.
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The question should be rephrased to "Why is it ignored that people are sharing commercial exams?"
and the answer to that would be "What commercial exams!"
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Because he supports free file sharing.
Personally, I think its the consumer response to excessive prices (i.e., what we would be paying private companies for their music, software etc).
Of course, when faced with a legal threat (VCENotes is owned or operated by a private limited company), enwiabe would be personally liable and evidently would be in his best interests to remove infringing documents.
My personal opinion is, if you wanna share - do it. Just not in public view.
:smitten:
The rational criminal theory
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The question should be rephrased to "Why is it ignored that people are sharing commercial exams?"
and the answer to that would be "What commercial exams!"
why would that be the answer, when they are stickied in plain view in some instances
i agree with coblin and excal's posts. I want to hear why he chooses to do it though
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As for why enwiabe doesn't worry about the legal side of it for his own sake, does he even have any legal stake in this? Or is only the uploader liable?
The user takes full libaility - in the legal disclaimer when you sign up, it is mentioned several times that VN takes no responsibility and is not liable for anything its members post.
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VN takes no responsibility for the content that its users post on the forum. I can't read every single post, so I'm not going to task myself with this responsibility. If companies don't want their stuff on the site, they're more than welcome to e-mail me the links of the copyrighted material and I'll take it down.
Now, I used to take a more preventative stance when the site was small and it was easier to pick the posts off. It isn't small now, so I can't make it my business to strictly moderate every single post.
It's all in the disclaimer, I take no responsibility but I'm more than willing to co-operate with any party that holds a copyright who feels that said copyright is being infringed upon.
Also, you could have EASILY asked me this in private. You made, absolutely NO attempt to contact me privately. I didn't see ANY of your posts on this. This was nothing more than a pathetic attention seeking exercise. Well, congratulations, here's your attention :)
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Thank you for your response :)
One question though:
Why did you choose to remove past exams before, but if you see them these days you do not?
I understand you can not read every single post, but you can't honestly tell me you have not come across any practise exams yet that have been posted in the last month. Especially when they are stickied threads.
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I gave you my answer in my post, the fact that you keep questioning me about it suggests nothing more than a petty personal vendetta.
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Heh, you take everything personally, enwiabe.
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Ok I have gotten my answer :) You're fully aware of what you are doing, that's all I wanted to see :P
By the way, if I wanted attention there would be much better ways to go about it (ie, receiving positive attention by spreading the love and patting everyone on the back and having two sides of me, vs receiving negative attention like I am doing now)
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The fact remains that you could have easily messaged him privately about this, but chose to take it to the public forum level.
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There may be many reasons for asking on the forum rather than through private messages such as:
Maybe it's an answer that other people would like to know as well.
Publicly asking also provides an additional incentive to enwiabe to provide a relevant answer, as not answering can raise eyebrows amongst other members.
suggests nothing more than a petty personal vendetta.
I think it suggests more about you and how you view yourself that you will interpret such questions as a "personal vendetta".
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As for why enwiabe doesn't worry about the legal side of it for his own sake, does he even have any legal stake in this? Or is only the uploader liable?
The user takes full libaility - in the legal disclaimer when you sign up, it is mentioned several times that VN takes no responsibility and is not liable for anything its members post.
That's currently quite shaky at the moment - given our recent changes to the Copyright Act (Digital Amendment - to line up with the US DMCA for the FTA) that actually puts a responsibility on content providers to moderate their user-generated content. Similar to the 'we don't do anything until C&D'ed' as is in America - the 'safe harbour' provisions.
I don't know the act well enough to know exactly, though.
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Excal, do you know which section of the Act deals with this specifically?
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the fact of the matter is: why does this thread even exist?
someone other than OP: say "aye" if you would like to see these exams taken down.
I seriously cannot imagine anyone complaining, and if you are complaining, you are an asswipe.
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I like free stuff.
No matter how illegal it may be.
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the fact of the matter is: why does this thread even exist?
someone other than OP: say "aye" if you would like to see these exams taken down.
I seriously cannot imagine anyone complaining, and if you are complaining, you are an asswipe.
Well said!!!
Ok I have gotten my answer :) You're fully aware of what you are doing, that's all I wanted to see :P
I thought you just wanted to know why it was allowed, not whether or not he "knew what he was doing". Since you've stated that this was really your goal I can only wonder why... are you trying to get him into trouble or something??
If not, I don't know why the fuck you'd care.
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someone other than OP: say "aye" if you would like to see these exams taken down.
aye
JK!!!!
please don't call me an asswipe :(
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I like free stuff.
No matter how illegal it may be.
it is embedded in the asian race :P
/me proceeds to upload moar exams
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I like free stuff.
No matter how illegal it may be.
it is embedded in the asian race :P
/me proceeds to upload moar exams
Quoted for truth. :)
The internet is too serious sometimes.
By the way, I see a looming 3 digit number for MAT1085.
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I'm all for posting exams up on here. To some people it is the only way they can get them where their school does not give them any or very many. The prices are outrageous, eg 320 for 2 exams. Not many people can afford this so file sharing is imperative for some people to get practice exams.
The people on here against this are most likely people from private or wealthy schools to which they get dozens of them given to them from school. For many people, including me who don't come from such good schools or such resourceful ones need file sharing exams to maximise our scores.
To all those people who oppose this view, I have one question for you all. How did you get practice exams when you were at school?
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I am undecided about intellectual property rights, but if you are the owner of a website, I'd understand why you'd try not to break the law, even if you disagree with it.
As for everyone doing it with MP3s and etc. - what can I say? It pays to be a rational criminal (if the benefits exceed the very low costs)
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Innocent until proven guilty, I guess.
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the fact of the matter is: why does this thread even exist?
someone other than OP: say "aye" if you would like to see these exams taken down.
I seriously cannot imagine anyone complaining, and if you are complaining, you are an asswipe.
Mao: Read the last sentence of my original post.
Brendan explained why this thread is here better than I ever could, my opinion is that.
And I'm not an asswipe Im an ass-pie tyvm, get your facts right :P
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(http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp208/maox0001/emotions/spock-raise-one-eyebrow.jpg)
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YES, JUST LIKE SPOCK!!!!!!
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Hmm. I realise this is like 2 weeks after the last post, but I feel this is relevant.
There are many free uploading hosts that you can put the exams on. Rapidshare and Megaupload are just a few. It is actually legal to put the links of the exams on VN, so long as the exams themselves aren't being held here. There are entire forums dedicated to the distribution of these links and they cannot be taken down because they don't host anything illegally. This is a solution to all problems (except the 'ethical' issue) associated with uploading exams. I would go so far as to encourage uploading exams to a host such as Rapidshare (most widely used) and to create a specific forum on here just for these links. This effectively takes any and all blame off VN (enwiabe can't be sued or told to take the links down) and provides a great archive for future years.
Just think about it :)
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Hmm. I realise this is like 2 weeks after the last post, but I feel this is relevant.
There are many free uploading hosts that you can put the exams on. Rapidshare and Megaupload are just a few. It is actually legal to put the links of the exams on VN, so long as the exams themselves aren't being held here. There are entire forums dedicated to the distribution of these links and they cannot be taken down because they don't host anything illegally. This is a solution to all problems (except the 'ethical' issue) associated with uploading exams. I would go so far as to encourage uploading exams to a host such as Rapidshare (most widely used) and to create a specific forum on here just for these links. This effectively takes any and all blame off VN (enwiabe can't be sued or told to take the links down) and provides a great archive for future years.
Just think about it :)
Yes it's kind of like the piratebay situation. They say they're not doing anything wrong because they're not actually hosting any pirated software, music or games. They've been raided and there has been numerous attempts to close them down but no success.
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Hmm. I realise this is like 2 weeks after the last post, but I feel this is relevant.
There are many free uploading hosts that you can put the exams on. Rapidshare and Megaupload are just a few. It is actually legal to put the links of the exams on VN, so long as the exams themselves aren't being held here. There are entire forums dedicated to the distribution of these links and they cannot be taken down because they don't host anything illegally. This is a solution to all problems (except the 'ethical' issue) associated with uploading exams. I would go so far as to encourage uploading exams to a host such as Rapidshare (most widely used) and to create a specific forum on here just for these links. This effectively takes any and all blame off VN (enwiabe can't be sued or told to take the links down) and provides a great archive for future years.
Just think about it :)
wow what a loophole. that's an awesome suggestion.
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Hmm. I realise this is like 2 weeks after the last post, but I feel this is relevant.
There are many free uploading hosts that you can put the exams on. Rapidshare and Megaupload are just a few. It is actually legal to put the links of the exams on VN, so long as the exams themselves aren't being held here. There are entire forums dedicated to the distribution of these links and they cannot be taken down because they don't host anything illegally. This is a solution to all problems (except the 'ethical' issue) associated with uploading exams. I would go so far as to encourage uploading exams to a host such as Rapidshare (most widely used) and to create a specific forum on here just for these links. This effectively takes any and all blame off VN (enwiabe can't be sued or told to take the links down) and provides a great archive for future years.
Just think about it :)
Actually the case law contradicts this somewhat.
The in KaZaA case, it would found that by being a central server that links to infringing materials (KaZaA was a centralised P2P architecture), it infringed copyright by 'authorising' its users to share copyrighted files. The fact that they had knowingly allowed for such transfer to take place probably had some bearing (and enwiabe has already conceded to knowing that it does take place and will only be dealt with if approached by the copyright holder).
Universal Music Australia Pty Ltd v Sharman License Holdings Ltd [2005] FCA 1242
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Hmm. I realise this is like 2 weeks after the last post, but I feel this is relevant.
There are many free uploading hosts that you can put the exams on. Rapidshare and Megaupload are just a few. It is actually legal to put the links of the exams on VN, so long as the exams themselves aren't being held here. There are entire forums dedicated to the distribution of these links and they cannot be taken down because they don't host anything illegally. This is a solution to all problems (except the 'ethical' issue) associated with uploading exams. I would go so far as to encourage uploading exams to a host such as Rapidshare (most widely used) and to create a specific forum on here just for these links. This effectively takes any and all blame off VN (enwiabe can't be sued or told to take the links down) and provides a great archive for future years.
Just think about it :)
Actually the case law contradicts this somewhat.
The in KaZaA case, it would found that by being a central server that links to infringing materials (KaZaA was a centralised P2P architecture), it infringed copyright by 'authorising' its users to share copyrighted files. The fact that they had knowingly allowed for such transfer to take place probably had some bearing (and enwiabe has already conceded to knowing that it does take place and will only be dealt with if approached by the copyright holder).
Universal Music Australia Pty Ltd v Sharman License Holdings Ltd [2005] FCA 1242
no he doesn't. he doublethinks.
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Excal, do you know which section of the Act deals with this specifically?
Copyright Act = tl;dr
I'm better versed in the DRM stuff. Case law is easier to find simply because you hear it in the news and sorta know where to start looking. This particular case was also after the amendments in 2005 that supposedly brought us into line with the US (for the FTA) which would've included the safe harbour provisions.
tl;dr: I don't know. It's in there somewhere, but I gather that it'd have to do with holding out as someone who is authorised to (illegally) distribute the music, from reading the summary of the case).
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I think it's good to post exams, whether this is legal or not, until the 'cease and desist' is actually made. For the following reasons:
1) The exams are shoddy anyway. The price people pay for them are exorbitant and they're still pretty shit, confusing and full of mistakes. These educational companies are already practically stealing from students by making them buy this crap before the students can even be aware that they are crap.
2) It saves me (and others) from having to email god knows how many exams to the people who want them. Posting them on the forum saves heaps of time.
3) The whole point of this website is to make educational resources accessible to all students, regardless of what school they're from. Some schools will give students giant exam packs, some will only get a couple of past VCAA exams. Having more exams available online bridges the gap.
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I like free stuff.
No matter how illegal it may be.
Who doesn't?
But some rational discussion of the legality of it doesn't hurt IMHO. Whatever is done is really enwiabe's perogative - and should anything further happen, the poster of said exams.
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Its not like the companies are losing revenue, because its the schools that purchase the practise exams, not the students themselves.
wow what a loophole. that's an awesome suggestion.
Yeah, but rapidshare will take the link down the second a company asks them to, which can lead to annoying broken links all over the place.
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Its not like the companies are losing revenue, because its the schools that purchase the practise exams, not the students themselves.
wow what a loophole. that's an awesome suggestion.
Yeah, but rapidshare will take the link down the second a company asks them to, which can lead to annoying broken links all over the place.
Let's look at two scenarios:
'I have made a computer monitor, and I want to sell it. Taking that money off me by stealing the monitor is, well, stealing.'
'I have written a computer program, and I want to sell it. Taking that money off me by copying the software is, well, stealing'.
Put in very simple terms, to encourage this activity is akin to encouraging theft. Intellectual property is, after all, property. That said, I'm of the belief that if you've already bought it, you should be free to share it as I would be free to give that computer monitor to my friend to use.
Question is, did you buy it?
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Its not like the companies are losing revenue, because its the schools that purchase the practise exams, not the students themselves.
yes they are :P
i have saved my school quite a bit of money [which are currently being better spent elsewhere. :D]
[well, that's quite false... because i'm the only one in my school who utilize these resources... it just means i didn't have to force my teachers to buy another 900,000 exams for me.]
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Its not like the companies are losing revenue, because its the schools that purchase the practise exams, not the students themselves.
wow what a loophole. that's an awesome suggestion.
Yeah, but rapidshare will take the link down the second a company asks them to, which can lead to annoying broken links all over the place.
Let's look at two scenarios:
'I have made a computer monitor, and I want to sell it. Taking that money off me by stealing the monitor is, well, stealing.'
'I have written a computer program, and I want to sell it. Taking that money off me by copying the software is, well, stealing'.
Put in very simple terms, to encourage this activity is akin to encouraging theft. Intellectual property is, after all, property. That said, I'm of the belief that if you've already bought it, you should be free to share it as I would be free to give that computer monitor to my friend to use.
Question is, did you buy it?
i haven't bought or shared (or even used) any exams...but of course intellectual and physical theft are as equally 'wrong' as the other.yes they are :P
i have saved my school quite a bit of money [which are currently being better spent elsewhere. :D]
[well, that's quite false... because i'm the only one in my school who utilize these resources... it just means i didn't have to force my teachers to buy another 900,000 exams for me.]
at my high school it was only ever the department heads who bought the practise exams and dished them out to all the teachers. and honestly they probably wouldn't buy more practise exams if i asked them. that being said, does anybody here even know what they are worth? (considering the hours that people put into them)
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about a hundred dollars for each set [subject]. [some cheaper, some more expensive]
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Question is, did you buy it?
I would hope that at least part of the enormous amount of money going into school fees at my school would cover the purchase of the exams ...
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Its not like the companies are losing revenue, because its the schools that purchase the practise exams, not the students themselves.
This is a good point. You can't just go "pirated copies" multiplied by "price" and say: that's how much revenue they're losing! You have to analyse the demand curve, and have a look whether people would have actually bought it for that price.
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Its not like the companies are losing revenue, because its the schools that purchase the practise exams, not the students themselves.
This is a good point. You can't just go "pirated copies" multiplied by "price" and say: that's how much revenue they're losing! You have to analyse the demand curve, and have a look whether people would have actually bought it for that price.
I don't think many individuals are buying practice exams. Mostly it's just schools that buy them (they are bloody expensive!) and just because they're online, doesn't mean schools are going to stop purchasing!
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Its not like the companies are losing revenue, because its the schools that purchase the practise exams, not the students themselves.
This is a good point. You can't just go "pirated copies" multiplied by "price" and say: that's how much revenue they're losing! You have to analyse the demand curve, and have a look whether people would have actually bought it for that price.
I don't think many individuals are buying practice exams. Mostly it's just schools that buy them (they are bloody expensive!) and just because they're online, doesn't mean schools are going to stop purchasing!
Exactly. The whole point is that people access the exams that their school HASN'T supplied. There's no point downloading an exam that your teacher has already given out. In no way is this going to decrease the amount of exams purchased by schools. (generalisation, but correct enough for this argument)
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I think it's good to post exams, whether this is legal or not, until the 'cease and desist' is actually made. For the following reasons:
1) The exams are shoddy anyway. The price people pay for them are exorbitant and they're still pretty shit, confusing and full of mistakes. These educational companies are already practically stealing from students by making them buy this crap before the students can even be aware that they are crap.
2) It saves me (and others) from having to email god knows how many exams to the people who want them. Posting them on the forum saves heaps of time.
3) The whole point of this website is to make educational resources accessible to all students, regardless of what school they're from. Some schools will give students giant exam packs, some will only get a couple of past VCAA exams. Having more exams available online bridges the gap.
Yeah some schools get fuckn past VCAA exams thank you very much. talk about POV and a shit fckn school. Without past papers on VN, good joi mai game to my career.