ATAR Notes: Forum

Uni Stuff => Faculties => Arts => Topic started by: Amnesiac on November 21, 2008, 11:36:24 am

Title: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: Amnesiac on November 21, 2008, 11:36:24 am
I for one, am. It's completely altered my preference list from having Melbourne Arts as number 1 to now number 4. Is anybody else turned off ?
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: bubble sunglasses on November 21, 2008, 11:47:36 am

  "Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?"

     In a word, yes
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: dcc on November 21, 2008, 12:05:44 pm
No. It means I can learn new (and different) things!
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: clinton_09 on November 21, 2008, 12:19:05 pm
yep i am
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: dekoyl on November 21, 2008, 12:39:49 pm
I am turned off overall. I'm not that keen on being forced to learn more. I like learning and gaining knowledge in all aspects but I'd like to do that in my own time like something on the side. Not sure about the situation for arts.
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: ninwa on November 21, 2008, 12:52:08 pm
Yes.
I'd like to do a double degree
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: brendan on November 23, 2008, 06:52:34 pm
Yes.
I'd like to do a double degree

Is it cos Melb>Monash? :P
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: costargh on November 23, 2008, 07:28:06 pm
No. Melbourne model turns me on.
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: xox.happy1.xox on November 23, 2008, 07:51:01 pm
Yes! Why pay for a 3 year course, when you can get the same degree at another University, and not need to do any course before it? I'm peeved about Law in this regard. :P
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: bturville on November 23, 2008, 08:20:53 pm
Yes! Why pay for a 3 year course, when you can get the same degree at another University, and not need to do any course before it? I'm peeved about Law in this regard. :P
Oh come on! Most people do law with another degree anyway, and you can finish it in the same time as any other double degree with the JD/Melb Model. Also a bonus is that you get time to think if law is right for you. :)
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: xox.happy1.xox on November 23, 2008, 08:24:13 pm
Yes! Why pay for a 3 year course, when you can get the same degree at another University, and not need to do any course before it? I'm peeved about Law in this regard. :P
Oh come on! Most people do law with another degree anyway, and you can finish it in the same time as any other double degree with the JD/Melb Model. Also a bonus is that you get time to think if law is right for you. :)

Aww... I don't want to do a double degree anymore. But it is a good idea, I guess, to see if Law is the course for me (I will probably defer a media course, and go to it when I start to get sick of Law :P).
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: brendan on November 23, 2008, 08:24:46 pm
Yes! Why pay for a 3 year course, when you can get the same degree at another University, and not need to do any course before it? I'm peeved about Law in this regard. :P
Oh come on! Most people do law with another degree anyway, and you can finish it in the same time as any other double degree with the JD/Melb Model. Also a bonus is that you get time to think if law is right for you. :)

But then there is risk. The risk that you will not be admitted into the JD
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: xox.happy1.xox on November 23, 2008, 08:28:34 pm
Yes! Why pay for a 3 year course, when you can get the same degree at another University, and not need to do any course before it? I'm peeved about Law in this regard. :P
Oh come on! Most people do law with another degree anyway, and you can finish it in the same time as any other double degree with the JD/Melb Model. Also a bonus is that you get time to think if law is right for you. :)

But then there is risk. The risk that you will not be admitted into the JD

So is there only one way in which JD admission is granted?
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: bturville on November 23, 2008, 08:30:01 pm
But then there is risk. The risk that you will not be admitted into the JD
True true, but if you are able to get the high enters required for a double degree with law at monash or somewhere, you are probably bright enough to be able to do well in the (horrible) LSAT, get decent grades in the undergrad, and all the other junk they need.

Still, if i had wanted to do law i would have probably opted for monash anyway.

EDIT: Btw, http://jd.law.unimelb.edu.au/go/future-students/how-to-apply
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: Eriny on November 23, 2008, 09:46:03 pm
You can do the JD at other unis too.
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: brendan on November 23, 2008, 09:54:18 pm
But then there is risk. The risk that you will not be admitted into the JD
True true, but if you are able to get the high enters required for a double degree with law at monash or somewhere, you are probably bright enough to be able to do well in the (horrible) LSAT, get decent grades in the undergrad, and all the other junk they need.

Still, if i had wanted to do law i would have probably opted for monash anyway.

EDIT: Btw, http://jd.law.unimelb.edu.au/go/future-students/how-to-apply

Yeah but then there is risk and uncertainty as to whether you will not just get a high LSAT score but a higher LSAT score than others also taking it.
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: vcestar on November 23, 2008, 10:06:41 pm
noidontgetturnedoffbyanything.thatsitformefortoday.bye

k
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: clinton_09 on November 23, 2008, 10:09:53 pm
cya champ
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: bturville on November 23, 2008, 10:12:52 pm
But then there is risk. The risk that you will not be admitted into the JD
True true, but if you are able to get the high enters required for a double degree with law at monash or somewhere, you are probably bright enough to be able to do well in the (horrible) LSAT, get decent grades in the undergrad, and all the other junk they need.

Still, if i had wanted to do law i would have probably opted for monash anyway.

EDIT: Btw, http://jd.law.unimelb.edu.au/go/future-students/how-to-apply

Yeah but then there is risk and uncertainty as to whether you will not just get a high LSAT score but a higher LSAT score than others also taking it.
But assuming that they have the same number of intakes to the JD as they did when it was undergrad, and you continue to do as well compared to everybody else as you did in year 12, you should be in a similar position compared to others in a similar position to you. But then i guess it also depends on numbers coming from other sources, and that you can't really speculate about.

Still if you get 99.x and you pass up law/whatever at another uni and take up a degree at UoM with an 85 ENTER requirement like how they have now, I agree thats pretty much the definition of risky (if you really want to do law).
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: ShadowSong on November 23, 2008, 10:15:22 pm
I think the Melbourne Model is actually a good thing. Some people might say the breadth studies are a waste of time but essentially its all good. You complete your course in the same amount of time and you learn more. I think...
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: bturville on November 23, 2008, 10:38:16 pm
A career in Medicine by nature is one that involves continuous learning. A 7 year (minimum) course in addition to years spent specialising is not exactly ideal.
Thats what i'm interested to know about. How can a UoM med grad be equal to one from another uni who has studied med the entire course, rather than just a general degree (and more importantly a non med degree) and a few years of medical training at the end (quite a lot less overall though)?
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: xox.happy1.xox on November 24, 2008, 08:50:19 am
noidontgetturnedoffbyanything.thatsitformefortoday.bye

k

That website didn't work for me. :P
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: champorado on November 24, 2008, 11:21:09 am
I liked it. I'm not gonna go there, but I liked how you could do a language without adding to the time it takes to complete your degree.
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: xox.happy1.xox on November 24, 2008, 02:03:20 pm
So basically, you must do the LSAT (for Law) to do professional Legal Practice, for example, to become a barrister, regardless of what Uni you go to? Would all Uni's be treated equally when going for jobs, or would one Uni gain preference over the others? I'm confused. :P
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: bturville on November 24, 2008, 02:11:27 pm
So basically, you must do the LSAT (for Law) to do professional Legal Practice, for example, to become a barrister, regardless of what Uni you go to? Would all Uni's be treated equally when going for jobs, or would one Uni gain preference over the others? I'm confused. :P
The law school admission test is only for post grad law. And i don't think all unis would be EXACTLY equal, because of reputations and etc. But firms would probably be more interested in your experiences, grades, reasoning ability and LSAT scores more than which uni you came from, I would guess.
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: xox.happy1.xox on November 24, 2008, 03:11:55 pm
So basically, you must do the LSAT (for Law) to do professional Legal Practice, for example, to become a barrister, regardless of what Uni you go to? Would all Uni's be treated equally when going for jobs, or would one Uni gain preference over the others? I'm confused. :P
The law school admission test is only for post grad law. And i don't think all unis would be EXACTLY equal, because of reputations and etc. But firms would probably be more interested in your experiences, grades, reasoning ability and LSAT scores more than which uni you came from, I would guess.
I hope you're right! I have no chance of getting into Monash, and can't really be bothered with the Melbourne model, and not needing to do the LSAT is a bonus. :)
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: brendan on November 24, 2008, 06:48:48 pm
So basically, you must do the LSAT (for Law) to do professional Legal Practice, for example, to become a barrister, regardless of what Uni you go to? Would all Uni's be treated equally when going for jobs, or would one Uni gain preference over the others? I'm confused. :P
No, the LSAT is not a bar exam.

LSAT = Law School Admission Test
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: applekid on December 19, 2008, 06:43:58 pm
i understand the concept of breadth subjects and i think that is worthwhile (i think the american system works quite well),
but i don't like the immense cuts made in the arts department that have completely depleted the previous richness of the faculty (or so i've been told, over and over).
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: bturville on December 19, 2008, 06:46:58 pm
International students don't come to Australia to study arts, so of course Melbourne is going to cut funding there. They want those full-fee bucks!
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: xox.happy1.xox on December 20, 2008, 11:26:02 pm
So basically, you must do the LSAT (for Law) to do professional Legal Practice, for example, to become a barrister, regardless of what Uni you go to? Would all Uni's be treated equally when going for jobs, or would one Uni gain preference over the others? I'm confused. :P
No, the LSAT is not a bar exam.

LSAT = Law School Admission Test

So you don't need it to to transfer into the JD at UoM?
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: bturville on December 20, 2008, 11:29:47 pm
Yes, that's part (if not the main) way they assess applicants.
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: MjM2 on December 20, 2008, 11:43:31 pm
It's okay. The only thing that is incredibly off putting about it, is the no guarantees offered to getting in the masters. IF you don't get in, what then? Doesn't help none of the masters are actually running, and you have no idea of the number of places CSP. .
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: zomgSEAN on August 08, 2010, 01:55:06 pm
THE MELBOURNE MODEL IS THE MOST BEAUTIFUL THING I HAVE EVER SEEN. PERIOD!
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: Mulan on August 08, 2010, 02:06:09 pm
It's okay. The only thing that is incredibly off putting about it, is the no guarantees offered to getting in the masters. IF you don't get in, what then? Doesn't help none of the masters are actually running, and you have no idea of the number of places CSP. .

ABSOLUTELY AGREE
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: Wazupcharlz on August 08, 2010, 02:12:48 pm
i agree. HOWEVER, it would be mch better if the undergraduate courses were only 2 yrs
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: spaciiey on August 14, 2010, 10:57:58 pm
In a word, yes.

No guarantee of getting into a Master's Degree, and no more double degrees?

Monash, here I come.
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: Mulan on August 16, 2010, 02:05:52 am
^ yea but you can be guaranteed if you get over 99 for most courses, cant you?
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: vexx on August 16, 2010, 02:31:42 am
^ yea but you can be guaranteed if you get over 99 for most courses, cant you?

not exactly. they are getting rid of that full-fee places for that very reason, there is no guarantees, as there is such few places for full-fee students that it is "subject to the no. of places available" so getting 99 and thinking after obtaining your satisfactory interview, & 75% average you will get in after the 3 years, no, most likely not as there will be others with a better interview or better % average that will be taken over you.
"sorry we had no places for you"
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: Mulan on August 16, 2010, 02:35:18 am
but wouldnt someone who got over 99 in highschool be capable of getting a 75% average anyways?
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: TrueTears on August 16, 2010, 02:49:30 am
Not really, getting 99+ for VCE doesn't have a huge correlation to uni scores. A friend of mine got 99+ and failed one of his commerce subject in semester 1.
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: vexx on August 16, 2010, 03:48:24 am
but wouldnt someone who got over 99 in highschool be capable of getting a 75% average anyways?

yeah.

arghhhh melbourne model, you need double degreeeeees. your version of a double degree takes a year longer (you can do concurrent degrees which is basically a 5 year double degree of any two new gen degrees).
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: AzureBlue on August 16, 2010, 07:33:59 am
I did initially want to do a double degree in Commerce/Law but I love Melbourne Uni - the surrounds, the subjects, the lecturers/tutors etc... it's great! And I think it's more beneficial to do law as JD as the students will come from more diverse areas and be there because they actually want to study law, not because they got 99.95 or whatever, which is sometimes what happened in the old model. Also, they still offer a guaranteed pathway for school leavers who actually already have a passion for the legal field, so some of those talented students are not lost. This is also positive because areas of law are multidisciplinary so details can sometimes be discussed in a JD class that wouldn't be possible in an LLB class. I also love the idea of breadth subjects as not only are you exposed to your area of specialisation, but you get to experience things outside your area, giving you even more depth. Depth of experience is, what I believe, distinguishes JD students for LLBs. As well as this, before studying law, you've already established a way of studying etc. in your undergraduate subjects as you are ready in that uni is quite different from high school. Lectures max 60 students as opposed to undergrad degrees where they have hundreds at times.

Anyway, I'll be staying at uni for at least 7 years, then after that, another 2 after some work experience. That totals 9, but I reckon that's okay :) It's only a year longer than what it would take in a double degree and I need actuarial accreditation and the like, so it might actually be necessary. Thus, all things considered, I think that the Melbourne Model may not be such a bad idea.
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: ninwa on August 16, 2010, 11:09:32 am
but wouldnt someone who got over 99 in highschool be capable of getting a 75% average anyways?

Hellllll no.
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: IntoTheNewWorld on August 16, 2010, 11:15:07 am
<3 Melbourne Model

I'm such a traitor.
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: Russ on August 16, 2010, 11:16:13 am
I also love the idea of breadth subjects as not only are you exposed to your area of specialisation, but you get to experience things outside your area, giving you even more depth. Depth of experience is, what I believe, distinguishes JD students for LLBs.

Did you mean breadth of experience, not depth?

I don't particularly mind the melbourne model, it works pretty well as far as I'm concerned. If you really wanted to study in multiple areas, you can always do a separate degree

Quote
Hellllll no.

Yeah, this. There are plenty of high achieving students who I see struggling.
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: vexx on August 16, 2010, 01:11:49 pm
but wouldnt someone who got over 99 in highschool be capable of getting a 75% average anyways?

Hellllll no.

well depends what they are doing, if the person got 99 with mainly a focus on an area of study, and then got to do that at uni then a 75+ is definitely possible.
75+ is possible for pretty much anyone in the right degree just depends on willingness to work.
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: AzureBlue on August 16, 2010, 01:47:02 pm
Did you mean breadth of experience, not depth?
Quote
Yeah, sort of - basically, there have much more experience in different areas than those who just do straight undergrad law.
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: IntoTheNewWorld on August 16, 2010, 01:49:13 pm
Did you mean breadth of experience, not depth?
Yeah, sort of - basically, there have much more experience in different areas than those who just do straight undergrad law.

Who does straight undergrad law anyway lol. Most Monash people do doubles anyway~
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: AzureBlue on August 16, 2010, 01:51:01 pm
Yeah, but postgraduate law is for people who have already experienced undergrad AND thought it through and thus are there because they really want to do law.
Double degrees aren't that bad... but MELBOURNE UNI IS AWESOME :)
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: IntoTheNewWorld on August 16, 2010, 01:55:10 pm
Yeah, but postgraduate law is for people who have already experienced undergrad AND thought it through and thus are there because they really want to do law.
Double degrees aren't that bad... but MELBOURNE UNI IS AWESOME :)

lol UoM marketing is indeed powerful.

Yeah I've been sucked in too fml.
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: Noblesse on August 16, 2010, 02:06:53 pm
I'm fairly sure the Melbourne Model saved us from the global financial crisis.
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: AzureBlue on August 16, 2010, 02:50:35 pm
lol UoM marketing is indeed powerful.
Yeah I've been sucked in too fml.
Definitely. And the lecturers and tutors are so good. But I think that the Melbourne Model actually kind of suits me, because I have many areas of interest - including actuarial, law, economics and maths and I could study subjects from all these areas (focusing on actuarial and law though).
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: Russ on August 16, 2010, 05:10:08 pm
Breadth subjects won't really give you a depth of information in multiple areas. I've heard the same speech about it half a dozen times now and the tagline is "know something about everything [breadth] and everything about something [major]". Especially if you're aiming to major in actuarial, where you won't even get the opportunity to do six breadth.

And of course the melbourne model saved us from the GFC, it's injecting hundreds of thousands of dollars into the economy by extending course length!
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: AzureBlue on August 16, 2010, 05:41:05 pm
Well you still get a few economics, accounting and statistical/financial maths subjects along with the actuarial subjects...
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: TyErd on August 16, 2010, 05:50:56 pm
they scrapped bachelor of engineering coz of the melbourne model which i dont like, now I have to get a 90+ to get into bachelor of science just so i can do engineering which sucks balls coz bachelor of engineering last year was like 85. So im off to rmit.
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: 98.40_for_sure on August 16, 2010, 05:55:13 pm
they scrapped bachelor of engineering coz of the melbourne model which i dont like, now I have to get a 90+ to get into bachelor of science just so i can do engineering which sucks balls coz bachelor of engineering last year was like 85. So im off to rmit.

What about monash? monash eng > melb eng anyway :D
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: Russ on August 16, 2010, 06:08:17 pm
I always thought it was either monash or melb for engineering, since those were the two most popular degrees amongst employers.
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: Dmytro on August 16, 2010, 10:07:18 pm
Absolutely.
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: TyErd on August 17, 2010, 07:10:33 am
they scrapped bachelor of engineering coz of the melbourne model which i dont like, now I have to get a 90+ to get into bachelor of science just so i can do engineering which sucks balls coz bachelor of engineering last year was like 85. So im off to rmit.

What about monash? monash eng > melb eng anyway :D

i need like 93 which i wont get for monash and also i live too far away from there. 3 and a half hours transport everyday would become a massive pain.
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: Gloamglozer on August 17, 2010, 04:37:09 pm
Anyway, I'll be staying at uni for at least 7 years, then after that, another 2 after some work experience. That totals 9, but I reckon that's okay :) It's only a year longer than what it would take in a double degree and I need actuarial accreditation and the like, so it might actually be necessary. Thus, all things considered, I think that the Melbourne Model may not be such a bad idea.

Just a question.  Have you planned what will happen when you consume all your Student Learning Entitlement (SLE)?

I always thought it was either monash or melb for engineering, since those were the two most popular degrees amongst employers.

Actually, RMIT's engineering is up there as well and I think Swinburne is starting to get up there as well.

Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: AzureBlue on August 17, 2010, 05:13:08 pm
Um. Not really, I'd never heard of an SLE tbh, but I guess I'd start paying full fees for my masters if my undergrad and JD were all CSP. I relaly don't know lol

But apparently: CSP students get additional SLE if you enrol in an:

    * Undergraduate course that takes more than six years of full-time study to complete
    * Honours, graduate entry bachelor degree or postgraduate course

This is only:

    * For that specific course
    * After all ordinary SLE is used


http://www.goingtouni.gov.au/Main/FeesLoansAndScholarships/Undergraduate/CommonwealthSupportForYourPlaceAndHECS-HELP/BeingEligibleStudentEntitlement.htm
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: zhenzhenzhen on August 17, 2010, 05:52:11 pm
fee-help
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: Gloamglozer on August 18, 2010, 06:08:41 pm
Um. Not really, I'd never heard of an SLE tbh, but I guess I'd start paying full fees for my masters if my undergrad and JD were all CSP. I relaly don't know lol

But apparently: CSP students get additional SLE if you enrol in an:

    * Undergraduate course that takes more than six years of full-time study to complete
    * Honours, graduate entry bachelor degree or postgraduate course

This is only:

    * For that specific course
    * After all ordinary SLE is used


http://www.goingtouni.gov.au/Main/FeesLoansAndScholarships/Undergraduate/CommonwealthSupportForYourPlaceAndHECS-HELP/BeingEligibleStudentEntitlement.htm

Yes, the additional SLE is if you haven't completed a single CSP course but when you've finished one course, you can still use up any SLE you have left but after that, you're on your own.
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: Russ on August 18, 2010, 06:17:44 pm
I'm refusing to consider my SLE implications until it runs out.

Ignorance is bliss.
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: Glockmeister on August 18, 2010, 06:21:55 pm
If you're only doing a single or double degree, you don't need to worry about SLE at all.

The SLE is really only of concern of those who do multiple undergraduate degrees and don't go out to the workforce at all.
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: AzureBlue on August 18, 2010, 09:06:10 pm
So it doesn't matter if I do 1 undergrad, 1 JD/postgrad and 1 masters?
Title: Re: Is anybody turned off by the Melbourne Model?
Post by: Gloamglozer on August 18, 2010, 10:33:04 pm
So it doesn't matter if I do 1 undergrad, 1 JD/postgrad and 1 masters?

If you want CSPs and those 3 things don't exceed 7 years, then no problems.  As Russ puts it, SLE is bliss for you.