ATAR Notes: Forum

VCE Stuff => Victorian Technical Score Discussion => Topic started by: Mao on December 07, 2007, 09:40:19 am

Title: standardisation of SACs
Post by: Mao on December 07, 2007, 09:40:19 am
apologies for asking questions all the time rather than contributing to the answers... i'm still young and impressionable =P lol
anyways...

how are SACs standardised? my teachers are all noobs (most prob first year graduates...) so, um........

that is all =D
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: Eriny on December 07, 2007, 10:25:01 am
They look at the exam results of your cohort and go from there. If the top exam mark, for example, is two standard deviations from the mean, the top SAC mark will also be two s.d.'s from the mean. Also, if you're given the 3rd highest SAC score, the 3rd highest exam score will be roughly equivilant to your SAC score. They also use the GAT as well in moderation.

I hope that makes sense.
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: costargh on December 07, 2007, 12:30:47 pm
Does that mean that if you don't get the highest SAC mark then you cant get a higher study score than the person with no.1  on SAC's?
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: golids on December 07, 2007, 12:51:14 pm
Does that mean that if you don't get the highest SAC mark then you cant get a higher study score than the person with no.1  on SAC's?

yep, unless there are significant differences in what you get in the exam
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: Eriny on December 07, 2007, 12:55:15 pm
Technically you can't, but I've heard of people who aren't ranked first getting 50's. You'd have to be in a pretty smart cohort for that to happen though.
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: golids on December 07, 2007, 01:01:43 pm
Technically you can't, but I've heard of people who aren't ranked first getting 50's. You'd have to be in a pretty smart cohort for that to happen though.

a mate of mine believes that English is an exception if you absolutely kill the exam
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: clickmysilverheels on April 19, 2008, 07:15:11 pm
my english teacher said that the SAC ranking also depends on what school you go to- apparently at MHS and Macrob, no matter what you get on the SACs, if your exam is 1st then your SAC mark gets pushed up to first, even if you had a really crap SAC mark throughout the year... any thoughts?
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: Eriny on April 19, 2008, 07:27:43 pm
my english teacher said that the SAC ranking also depends on what school you go to- apparently at MHS and Macrob, no matter what you get on the SACs, if your exam is 1st then your SAC mark gets pushed up to first, even if you had a really crap SAC mark throughout the year... any thoughts?
The people who do moderation don't know which school you go to, I'm pretty sure. Everyone is just a bunch of numbers with a letter on the end.
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: Mao on April 19, 2008, 07:30:55 pm
my english teacher said that the SAC ranking also depends on what school you go to- apparently at MHS and Macrob, no matter what you get on the SACs, if your exam is 1st then your SAC mark gets pushed up to first, even if you had a really crap SAC mark throughout the year... any thoughts?
erm... there's a current thread (well, died a week ago) called "ranking" on this exact same topic, plus necromancy :P

and, your SAC ranking does not change, and your SAC marks are moderated according to the cohort's performance in the exam, with respect to your ranking.
The reason why MHS and MacRob appear like that is because their cohort's exam score is high, hence their standardised SACs are high, and their median study score is also high.

no offence to english teachers, but comes numbers and statistics, they probably arent the best ones to talk to. If you see a methods teacher, they'll probably be able to explain it a lot better :)
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: sxcalexc on April 20, 2008, 10:24:57 am
Wait... so if you absolutely kill the exam and you are ranked 2nd... you don't get your own exam score?
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: Collin Li on April 20, 2008, 10:48:10 am
No! Your exam score is the anchor that drags around your SAC marks. VCAA obviously trust the official exams more than the SACs.
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: iamdan08 on April 20, 2008, 11:53:45 am
I think this explanation is quite good. It is in a previous thread on the matter.

Exam mark is absolute. If you get 80/100 for the exam, your exam mark stays like that.

SAC rankings within your school is absolute. If you're ranked 3rd, then even after moderation, you'll still have a SAC mark that is 3rd highest within your school.

SAC mark after moderation depends on your school's performance in the exam. If the majority of people score high in the exam (particularly the guy ranked 1st), then your SAC scores will very likely be moderated up. Remember that the moderation process is a way of making each school's SAC marks relative to each other, obviously because not all schools have SACs of the same difficulty.

Final study score depends on the combination of your GA (graded assessments).

Hope this all makes sense.

So your exam mark is yours. Ranking is used to determine what SAC score you will get according to exam preformace of your class overall.
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: AppleThief on April 20, 2008, 12:16:40 pm
a mate of mine believes that English is an exception if you absolutely kill the exam
I think 'killing the exam' can create exceptions. I can't find the article now, but I remember reading one about two people from the same school getting a 50 in Physics, even though they usually only ranked in the top five or ten in SACs. I was actually quite shocked that someone could get 50 ranking in the top ten.
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: AppleXY on April 20, 2008, 01:33:17 pm
Why is your name AppleThief? Are you trying to steal me and my avatar ? :P
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: Mao on April 20, 2008, 01:54:10 pm
there's also an applekid: http://vcenotes.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=628
and an apples: http://vcenotes.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=963

u've got a few followers prav :P
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: Eriny on April 20, 2008, 02:46:43 pm
Apples are archetypal of school. It kind of makes sense to mention an apple in your username on a forum about school.
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: AppleThief on April 20, 2008, 05:23:59 pm
Haha, interesting theory, but the real story behind my current username of choice is this:
I was watching Scrubs (season five, I think?) and Elliot was talking about her fantasy of catching a Mexican apple thief & making love in the tasting room.

And I liked the term 'apple thief', so I horked it.
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: /0 on April 22, 2008, 07:39:46 pm
Do they measure how far ahead someone is ranked than the next person? Or just the ... rank?
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: Mao on April 22, 2008, 08:22:40 pm
Do they measure how far ahead someone is ranked than the next person? Or just the ... rank?
in the extreme case that you are very far ahead of the next, it is expected that your exam result will also be far ahead of the next, hence you become your own anomaly and the cohort behind you remains together

if this happens in the middle of the cohort, the distribution of the exam marks will be similar (based on performance).

in cases where its really wierd, i suppose they do take that into account
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: Aye Bay Bay on April 28, 2008, 05:19:15 pm
Is your SAC rank for both unit 3 and 4 combined? My teacher told me your exam score can boost your SAC rank. Can it boost it to a top ranking? I'm confused
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: xox.happy1.xox on May 04, 2008, 12:35:20 pm
So if you get the highest exam mark, you are almost guaranteed the highest SAC mark, regardless on how well or bad you performed on your SAC's? I'm confused about the whole situation :(
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: Mao on May 04, 2008, 01:25:39 pm
So if you get the highest exam mark, you are almost guaranteed the highest SAC mark, regardless on how well or bad you performed on your SAC's? I'm confused about the whole situation :(
I dont think that is true.

SAC rankings dont get modified (from what I've been told), but the scores do get standardised.

when thinking about these, be realistic, the highest-ranking person in SACs will perform very well in the exam, lower-ranking people have high probability to not do as well (unless your cohort is supersaiyan like MHS)
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: AppleXY on May 05, 2008, 03:44:02 pm
True. But i'm ranked 2-3rd (96%) in SACs and i've already started to do exams for methods + spec [ well not fully start, but near lol ]. I personally think I would get the highest exam mark *hopes it doesn't jinx it* *touchwood* :P
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: Mao on May 05, 2008, 03:54:33 pm
True. But i'm ranked 2-3rd (96%) in SACs and i've already started to do exams for methods + spec [ well not fully start, but near lol ]. I personally think I would get the highest exam mark *hopes it doesn't jinx it* *touchwood* :P
if you've learnt the methods course already, you're further ahead than I was last year. (i think i only started antidifferentiation at this point :P)

they say, practice makes perfect.
so go buy thse A+ notes for methods and spec. they got quality questions (and heaps of them, like 350+ or something), especially extended response =)
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: dcc on May 05, 2008, 05:50:11 pm
methods is lol, i did the whole chapter on differential calculus in 2 periods.
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: Rietie on May 05, 2008, 06:20:28 pm
methods is lol, i did the whole chapter on differential calculus in 2 periods.

Well that makes me feel like crap. *cries because she does not like maths at the moment*
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: Mao on May 05, 2008, 06:22:21 pm
methods is lol, i did the whole chapter on differential calculus in 2 periods.

Well that makes me feel like crap. *cries because she does not like maths at the moment*
:P dont worry about dcc, he's destined to become the next Ahmad

he knows too much maths for his own good xD
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: /0 on May 05, 2008, 07:17:31 pm
I just pulled a massive fluke and aced the first SAC, but it's supposedly worth only 10% of internal ^_^. I've been doing badly lately on my subject tests, I guess my success is a bit line a sine graph, hope I'm at my peak for the application task... Tomorrow!
I wish we would be given handouts to write in... when I have to write my answers in a notebook I start getting really pedantic about formatting and spend way longer than I should.
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: enwiabe on May 06, 2008, 05:21:13 pm
Congrats on the SAC-acing, DivideBy0, and good luck for your apps task. Just remember that doing poorly in that SAC is not the end of the world! My applications SAC mark was 10% lower than my second lowest SAC mark, and I still wound up with a respectable study score. Just try your best and don't worry too much about the end of the year (... yet :P). :)
Title: Re: standardisation of SACs
Post by: /0 on May 06, 2008, 06:32:07 pm
Thanks enwiabe!