ATAR Notes: Forum
General Discussion => General Discussion Boards => Other General Discussion => Topic started by: costargh on December 06, 2007, 09:30:42 pm
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I have decided to leave FSN because I will no longer put up with the big egos that conquer this site.
Don't put up with crap from people who think they know everything. This site is great. The concept is great. The execution is not.
Odette, rustic metal and myself have now left because of an abuse of power by some moderators, constant egotistic bullshitting and a lack of respect for others which is defended by lame excuses such as "free speech".
If you do not feel comfortable with the way this site is being run then do not put up with it. Follow the lead.
Ciao
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I have decided to leave FSN because I will no longer put up with the big egos that conquer this site.
Don't put up with crap from people who think they know everything. This site is great. The concept is great. The execution is not.
Odette, rustic metal and myself have now left because of an abuse of power by some moderators, constant egotistic bullshitting and a lack of respect for others which is defended by lame excuses such as "free speech".
If you do not feel comfortable with the way this site is being run then do not put up with it. Follow the lead.
Ciao
sorry to hear your leaving
admittedly i haven't been on this site for long, but i can't say i've seen this egos floating around
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Bye :( make sure you come visit sometime, who knows in a few months this place might be completely different.
I can completely see where you're coming from
If anyone is going to come tear this post apart, I don't care.
In my opinion, the move over here from BoS was good because now we are not some neglected thing tacked onto nsw, and we can have our own resources, mods that actually have a clue who we are, no trolls on the off topic board etc (and we actually know other people on the off topic boards :o)
But when enwiabe made this site, I was wary about joining. He loves his power and being right. People like Brendan like to tear arguments to shreds without really having a stance himself - surely we're allowed to have opinions without statistics to back them up, especially on things that can't be quantified? It's incredibly intimidating
Quite a few other names I could mention, they're just the big ones =P
I don't care about my karma or whatever. All I know is, this site is no where near what I'd consider great, but it is better than where we came from. I just tend to ignore posts I don't like, probably at the expense of getting to know a few people, but meh :P
I don't do goodbyes well (maybe because I don't believe in them), but I remember when I first saw you on Bos was in an argument and I decided not to like you. Since then I've learnt you're a great person. see ya ^_^
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Aw your adorable cara.mel.
Lol
Look I do like this site. I have said it to enwiabe. I love the concept. But unless enwiabe wakes up and realises that this place is not the happy environment that it should be then it will not be a fully fledged successful venture. Now enwiabe I have not mentioned anyones name to these people and both people have mentioned a moderator who has not been acting in the right way. Of course you will "support him 100%" but maybe deep down inside you will see that my views are not solely my views.
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I shouldn't feel like I have to defend myself against this - but I don't want the wrong impression getting across.
I care about the FSN membership. I also care about the FSN staff. Firstly with regards to rustic_metal:
He was acting like a douche, coblin deleted a couple of his posts (nothing more), because he was being annoying. He complained to me and I told him I supported coblin 100% of the way. He then spat the dummy and left. Now, rustic_metal and Odette are friends in real life. I don't think she'd admit to it, but surely you can see that she'd have been swayed by Rustic_Metal leaving?
As for you, you were very lucky to get into FSN in the first place. After your original racist barrage against me on BoS, I was very reluctant to let you in. However, you proved that you could be a functioning and valuable member of the community and I am impressed by your turnaround. But seriously, give it up? Just give back to brendan as good as he gives. He's NEVER attacked you personally, only your ideas. I don't see what this fuss is about.
I must stress that if ANY member at ANY time feels persecuted or threatened, please PM me with evidence, and your queries. If it's substantiated, I will act on it. Early in November, a kid came onto FSN to make trouble for an unnamed member. He was dealt with so swiftly and conveniently, nobody knew anything had transpired. I will protect those who need protecting, but you seriously are just chucking a hissy fit. I hope this is the last time I have to comment on such a trivial matter.
Also, I've moved this to General Non-VCE discussion for the time being. I need to make a "Talk about FSN forum" and this post will be moved there afterwards.
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I actually may not leave because that would just be a sign of weakness and quitting is for losers. Whether I am banned is a matter for moderators but I will not give up on this site. I came from being a prick on BoS to a helpful member on FSN. I will give myself that credit.
I nominate myself for FSN members representative. I am deadly serious too. People should not feel intimated by moderators at any level and I will kindly be a representative.
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(edit: @enwiabe)
Yeah but did you make brendan english mod just to piss costargh off??
Rather mature for an admin. Brendan is an awesome mod but i thought BA22 would have been chosen for english mod after all he has contributed
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FSN members representative? Lol, who are you kidding?
You're going to say Ahmad is an arrogant mod? What about Coblin? What about Prava? They all represent you. Face it, your ONLY beef is with brendan. This entire thing is about brendan - not the way FSN is run. This is just a veiled attempt at getting him fired.
Well here's news for you, I stand by brendan 100% of the way in this matter. He is right and you are wrong. You can dispute it all you want, and I will not silence you. All it will do is make you look like a fool.
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I just wanted to clarify something... I was NOT persuaded by Ben to leave, sure I speak to him on msn, but hey I was the one who suggested we left fsn.... I made my own decision to leave and so did Ben. Thanks and good bye
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I actually may not leave because that would just be a sign of weakness and quitting is for losers. Whether I am banned is a matter for moderators but I will not give up on this site. I came from being a prick on BoS to a helpful member on FSN. I will give myself that credit.
I nominate myself for FSN members representative. I am deadly serious too. People should not feel intimated by moderators at any level and I will kindly be a representative.
I'm not weak and I'm not a loser, I have my reasons for leaving... and I've told you why I left..
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(edit: @enwiabe)
Yeah but did you make brendan english mod just to piss costargh off??
Rather mature for an admin. Brendan is an awesome mod but i thought BA22 would have been chosen for english mod after all he has contributed
Heh, that was a harmless joke. I'm gonna remove him after a day or two, but it gets across my point that I endorse my staff. It's not about maturity, it was just a light-hearted way of telling costargh that I think he's wrong.
The real English mod will be chosen after results. We don't really need one till the new year, anyway. If BA22 meets the requisite 40+ requirement, he'll probably be part of the team. I can tell you that much.
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Nothing against Admad. Coblins is 99% of the time very very good. You are usually good although making Brendan mod for English was a bit of a go at me and you know it. Goosefraba should be Legal mod and you know that
I was not implying your weak Odette thats just my mindset cause im a guy and i like to be right.
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I actually may not leave because that would just be a sign of weakness and quitting is for losers. Whether I am banned is a matter for moderators but I will not give up on this site. I came from being a prick on BoS to a helpful member on FSN. I will give myself that credit.
I nominate myself for FSN members representative. I am deadly serious too. People should not feel intimated by moderators at any level and I will kindly be a representative.
Moderators can't ban, only administrators - so I wouldn't worry about that.
Ultimately there shouldn't be a need for a members representative, the administrators should be user-focused, and ensure that they are satisfied. What are the primary reasons for creating a members representative? Do you really feel that some moderators are too over-bearing?
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You see, you're just shooting your mouth off AGAIN. Goosefraba has not finished legal studies. The prerequisite for being a moderator, GENERALLY, is 40+. It is waived in exceptional circumstances, such as brendan, but no offense to goose, you are not an exceptional circumstance.
im a guy and i like to be right
... What the hell? THAT IS THE MOST HYPOCRITICAL THING EVER. EVER. "im a guy and i like to be right"
YOUR BEEF WITH BRENDAN WAS WITH HIS, AND I QUOTE, "constant egotistic bullshitting" and then there you are being egotistical? "I like to be right" - That is the epitome of egotism.
Now, I'm sorry, but if you don't see the folly in your posts already, then you are a lost cause. Face it - you don't like brendan. You tried to besmirch him and it backfired, you should end this conversation now whilst you still retain a modicum of dignity.
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(i don't want legal mod)
(edit:or any mod for that matter)
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And by endorsing your staff you are making your members feel inadequate and intimidated.
Yes I dont think that the moderators trueley represent the members at all. I think their is a big status level and ego trip going on on here not including ahmed and applexy.
I just know that not everyone is not happy here with the way things are being run and it is leading to disharmony. I have so far been the only one that has brought it to anyones attention. Odettes means was more passive than mine but I choose to tackle the situation head on ( choosing not to leave now because I dont want to give up on this place).
Yeh i was rushing so i wrote something i didnt really think about.
I wont just stop because so i can spare myself.
If me confronting the mods about this is going to lead to bannage then fine.
I just am asking for a more friendly environment. Less egotisticness. Refer to English 2008
You can not just say I am wrong period enwiabe because you think that. That is your opinion but it is not neccesarily the views of everyone. 2 people gave me postive karma for sticking up to brandan so so far its 2 vs 1
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Wow, 2 people. That speaks a world of truths about what you're saying. (You know, or not)
I said I endorse my staff. This doesn't mean I endorse them all the time and on every matter. But currently, they've done nothing wrong and have only enriched the community. If at any time, they do legitimately bully you or anyone else, there will be repercussions. But seriously, nothing has transpired. I charge you to give me evidence for your accusations. All you've done is run your mouth, but you have nothing to back it up. The entire FSN database is open. Go find me this bullying and status-level "ego trip" of which you speak.
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Heh, that was a harmless joke. I'm gonna remove him after a day or two, but it gets across my point that I endorse my staff. It's not about maturity, it was just a light-hearted way of telling costargh that I think he's wrong.
See that's the problem. You're admin, you should be neutral, not making 'harmless jokes' at the expense of members
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And just because goosefraba doesnt want to be legal mod doesnt automatically enshrine the role to brendan. See theres another thing that gets to me. How can you have such stringement requirements for beign a mod yet brendan DIDNT EVEN DO LEGAL STUDIES yet he is legal mod!
Even now enwiabe, cara.mel, odette, myself, goosefraba have told you their are problems with the mods and you just tell us to show you evidence. We do not just make this syuff up. Maybe you should be reading between the lines a bit more.
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Lol, an administrator with no sense of humour? Now that's no fun at all. :( What about the prank on Odette when she got to 1000 posts and I reset it to 0 for a few minutes? That was harmless fun. :-/ Brendan's going to go back to economics/legal mod at the end of the day and that's all there is to it. It's TEMPORARY. Not lasting. If you want to bear a grudge, go for it. I care not. And Odette, general moderator is still waiting for you if you come back and maintain your old level of posting. I don't bear a grudge against you, you had every right to leave and I urge costargh to do the same if he detests my leadership so.
I refuse to make myself accountable for something that clearly does not warrant my responsibility.
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And just because goosefraba doesnt want to be legal mod doesnt automatically enshrine the role to brendan. See theres another thing that gets to me. How can you have such stringement requirements for beign a mod yet brendan DIDNT EVEN DO LEGAL STUDIES yet he is legal mod!
Even now enwiabe, cara.mel, odette, myself, goosefraba have told you their are problems with the mods and you just tell us to show you evidence. We do not just make this syuff up. Maybe you should be reading between the lines a bit more.
Read between the lines?
Lawyer: "Okay, so we don't have any actual evidence that he committed the murder. BUT, we have 4 people united under the belief that Mr. Parsons killed Margaret Pennyapple to testify that Mr. Parsons is guilty. It's not like they'd just make this stuff up! Read between the lines a little."
You see the gross fallacy here? Provide evidence, or you're just looking like an idiot. I can go 1000 rounds of this, and at this rate, it's looking like I'm going to be 'winning' every one. Although I feel like I'm losing insofar as I'm lowering myself to this level.
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brendan hasn't abused any of his moderator privileges whilst making that statement either (i.e. he didn't silence you, etc. - he simply posted like an ordinary user). Ultimately, you should hold brendan accountable rather than the entire Free Study Notes.
I think it's unfair that you blame the entire culture of the site on a beef you have with one of the users.
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I do not detest your leadership. On many occasions I have said that this site is going great and I commend you for that. However we are being realistic and realising that there are faults at the moment. Whether you decide to open your eyes and see them is up to you but I sure am seeing them.
I am happy for brendan to be temp moderator for legal as long as he is not giving false advice to 08's as he was to 07 students ( false advice meaning outside the study design or even AGAINST the study design in some instances).
I do like the idea of brendan being political moderator cause he excels with respect to politics and arguments.
BA22 would be a role model moderator if he was to become one. At the moment imo the most representative, unbiased, and thoughtful moderator is admad and I think that other moderators should aspire to follow his lead as he promotes harmony, equality and respect whilst upholding humour. This is all from my observations during the past few months. Do not ask me to find evidence for you because I kindly decline
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You see, your refusal to provide any sort of evidence of brendan's poor moderating just tells everyone who reads this thread that you have nothing to back yourself up on. All you're doing - ALL YOU ARE DOING - is taking out your personal grudge on brendan on me, slamming the way I run things.
You are a coward for this action, and your post is foolish.
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So you accuse me of hypocricy and then when you tell me to give evidence when brendan did not and would not to back up his "section 2 will seperate those who can bullshit and those who cant" you said "My boyyyyyyyyyy Brendog wins"
You see the "fallacy's" in your argument?
Ultimatlely I have said that this site is good. There are problems however and I just want a change in this all mods stick up for eachother attitude.
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What evidence could he possibly bring? That was purely speculative. It's a NEW study design. Instead of providing evidence, yes, he could have elaborated more on his argument and substantiated it with a qualification and reasoning behind his comments. But ultimately, you chose to attack him and not his message, and he responded to that - and rightly so.
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Look we can go around in circles but your missing the point. Will you recognise that at least 4-5 people tonight have said there are currently problems with this site and the way its being run in one way or another?
If not then you havent been listening to your members
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4-5 out of 250? Big majority you have there. I've torn your arguments to shreds. Your only remaining argument is 4-5 people back you up. Well, I'm sorry, but strength in numbers does not equal correctness. As brendan would point out to you with a helpful link, that's just a clear logical fallacy. :)
Your only problem is with brendan (and you have alluded to having problems with coblin). Except, if you look at a 'most helpful poster' poll run by Odette, coblin was the CLEAR winner. People love coblin so your point is moot there.
That only leaves brendan. ONLY brendan, and a passing jab at my maturity. Wow, your argument just stands up mightily!
I have been listening to my members, and I have listened to you. Except your arguments are ludicrous.
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As brendan would point out to you with a helpful link, that's just a clear logical fallacy. :)
coming right up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
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Thanks, brendan. :)
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Lol... geez
ok 250 members? Um ok.. so out of the top 20 i would say... 5 have backed me up. the others havent commented
Coblin I have come to like to be honest. I see he can establish more then one view point and is open to discussion. Prove to me enwiabe where I have recently have a problem with coblin :P and recently means within say the last 2-3 weeks. Dont quote bos either.
My arguments havent purely been formulated by myself. I have taken what other have said and spoken up. You still refuse to believe that anything is wrong with the way this place is being run. Your top poster left. Your 6th top ? left. Your current 5th top has shown dissapproval. Your 3rd top (mwa) is voicing his opinion. Maybe you havent heard anyone elses voices because a lot of people dont actually post that often and arent on here enough to see what goes on
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Also, brendan, if they don't provide evidence for their accusations of your poor moderation, you can request that this post be deleted for reasons of libel. Just 'reading you your rights'. :) Surely you know all about those laws, right, costargh? Brendan is just as entitled to have you back up your claims as you are to have me back up my claims if i were to call you a 'polka-dot-pyjama-wearing-puppy-spider'! This whole post is targeted at destroying his reputation, and, without proof, if brendan so requests it, I will have to delete this post.
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Lol wow that post made me feel warm and fuzzy on the inside. You've changed my entire life. i love you
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I refer to your allusion to a problem with coblin, when I quoted you a list of moderators in this thread and you said you didn't have a problem with Ahmad or AppleXY, but conveniently left out coblin. That's where "alluded to" came from. Now, if I misjudged that post and you simply forgot him, well then that was just a misread. Now, AGAIN, strength in numbers doesn't mean anything. Okay, so you guys post alot. That doesn't MAKE you right. That just says that you post alot and are united under one belief. What speaks a resounding volume of proof that I am running things right is the exponential growth of FSN despite the fact that I've ONLY ever 'advertised' on BoS. What speaks a resounding volume of proof that I am running things right is that we have hit 14k posts in just a month or so, when it took BoS 3 YEARS to do that in their VCE section. And even if you, and Odette and rustic_metal and the other person of which you spoke had never posted, we'd still have well in excess of 11k posts which is a growth MANY TIMES THAT of BoS. Something to the order of THIRTY times. And that's if it's linear, too.
I have the proof to show that I'm running things right. Where's your counter-proof? It's nowhere. All you have is baseless accusations.
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I just cannot believe wtf is happening here? Maybe I'm blind, but I seriously I cannot see any tensions on any of these forums. Jeez, brendan is research kind of person, he wants to make his point across, he doesn't want to personally attack you like "ZOMG YOUR MUMS SO FAT THAT WHEN SHE JUMPS OFF THE GRAND CANYON SHE GOT STUCK LULZ!@#". I mean SERIOUSLY? Please stop being emotional, I don't see what all the fuss is about.
Its just little hiccups that cause this blowout. I didn't know you guys were like the Lorenz Attractor.
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They're just statistics. We are humans and we have emotions. Sure we may mean nothing to you in the long term but that fact that we have been here from the start and have seen this place grow does show that we know something about this site.
Sorry strength in numbers doesn't mean anything? Last time I checked it was called a democracy...
You have not just advertised on BoS. You posted on the Age Vce section. Other people have done you good and recommened the site to their friends. You have made a Facebook. Other people have posted in various places because we thought that this place may actually be a good environment for everyone. This place could be filled with heaps of resources and yeh great but If the people using the site arent happy then they will inevitably move on to another site that may spring up (a resurgence of bos?) I doubt it thou... servers too slow.
So now you are implying that even though we have numbers our voices "dont mean anything"
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costargh, how has brendan or anyone else for that matter personally offended you? You mentioned emotions, he's obviously offended you somehow. He simply rebutted your claims, he attacked the message not the messenger.
I'm sorry, but I think you're seriously over-reacting.
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1) We got no members from the Age, unfortunately. I checked our traffic stats. Almost nobody clicked the link :(
2) Facebook was a bust. The only people on it are existing members
3) Yeah, word of mouth... whoa, couldn't be spreading because FSN is good? No, it's because i'm running it wrong!
Strength in numbers only works when the statistics are correlative. There are a lot of posts on FSN, that means people like frequenting the forum and posting. THAT'S correlative.
We have many posts. We have numbers. We disagree with you. This makes us right! THAT is not correlative. See the difference?
I'm saying your voices only mean something when they're unsubstantiated. I cannot believe you are making these wild accusations with NO proof whatsoever. It's almost like this is some kind of sick joke you're playing. How do you expect me to act here with no evidence? "Because I said so"? Sorry, that just doesn't cut it. Until you can come up with something concrete to base your accusations upon, you have nothing, and again - this is making you look FOOLISH.
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Surprise. April fools
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I admire Brendan, despite the disparity in our politics test results ;)
On the God thread, Costargh and others attacked him [ironically accusing him of making personal attacks] and he rebuffed their arguments with more efficient reasoning.
It reminded me of this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYlqql38XkY :)
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Surprise. April fools
Lucky I was not here during this conundrum.
If you still have any problems, explain them clearly with a clean slate. I never know what the hell is going on when enwiabe is arguing (I dunno, I just ignore his posts when he's in an argument coz they're just too... how do you say it... loaded, I guess).
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Ok basically started out like this.
Today ( or yesterday I dont know)
Odette and rustic_metal left the site.
They both had problems with the way the site was being run. When I asked Odette what happened she told me that she didnt like the way the site was being run. We had a discussion which brought up Brendan as one individual who has on numerous occasions created arguments Eg God thread... where there was obviously no real answer.
I PM'ed enwiabe about my concern and also mentioned I didnt like brendan being legal mod cause he didnt even do the subject.
Edit: I also was not happy with the way enwiabe intervened in the english forum by making brendan english moderator to try and impose his authority over me as i am merely just a normal poster
He politely replied back and we spoke about the matter. Then I decided I was leaving and started the goobye thread. A few people agreed with me. Others were already gone. Enwiabe responded. Others responded... discussion turned sour
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costargh:
You misunderstand brendan's posts in the God thread. They were defensive arguments to protect the ambiguity of the existence of God. They never claimed there was no God, but they were pointing out the ridiculous nature of suggesting there must be a God. In defence of ambiguity, that would hardly be called starting arguments.
Brendan is a good moderator, who supplies good reading resources. Whether they have done the VCE subject or not is irrelevant. I am tutoring two subjects I have never done in VCE. I'm sure teachers are teaching subjects they have never done in high school too.
That is my defence of the integrity of FSN management. If you disagree, you can rebut, live with it, or leave.
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So am i leaving?
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So am i leaving?
Your choice I guess.
:-\
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Meh. Maybe ill go into hiding and hope that when school starts this place is up with notes and some cool new ppl
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Meh. Maybe ill go into hiding and hope that when school starts this place is up with notes and some cool new ppl
Nah, stay active. Else droodles will be sad. :(
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Meh. Maybe ill go into hiding and hope that when school starts this place is up with notes and some cool new ppl
costargh, I really think there was nothing wrong with what happened in the English thread, and you blew it out of proportion. brendan has been unfairly made the scapegoat here. If any staff are to be blamed, it is enwiabe for making an authoritative intervention, but I think giving brendan global moderator status is overdue, but that is the decision of those actually who pay money to run FSN.
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Meh Ill leave it up to admin to do what they want with me as long as it isnt sexually degrading
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The admins aren't going to do anything. enwiabe is not going to ban you unless you spout out anti-Jew hatred, so it's really up to you whether you want to keep visiting or not.
Personally speaking, I value your inputs a lot of the time, but I am on brendan's side this time (I'm not really sure whether this is an argument between you and enwiabe or you and brendan, or a three-way)
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Its not even an argument. It was me coming out and saying whats on my mind. And that sprouted other opinions... people who either used passive means of expressing discontent or merely decided that it was time to give an opinion and stand up.
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So who are you filing your complaints towards? The moderation team (or some parts), or enwiabe?
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I didn't know you guys were like the Lorenz Attractor.
LOL - i actually get that :) +1 for knowledge of chaos theory.
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We had a discussion which brought up Brendan as one individual who has on numerous occasions created arguments Eg God thread... where there was obviously no real answer.
So what - i was rebutting arguments. Why is that a problem? This is a place of free discussion and i was discussing freely.
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I'm with Brendan too, his input into the academic debates of humanities is unmatched, surpassing even the regular contributors on the site-that-must-not-be-named. I feel tension sometimes, but that comes with the stress we all have at this time of our lives. Brendan is a willing, constructive contributor to this site, and i always enjoy his perspectiv regardles of whether i agree with it or not.
It is an important skill to learn to enter a spirited debate whilst realising attacks on your posts, are not attacks on your person
P.S. I look foward to Brendan being swamped by uni goers next year to tap into his resources.
Call this brown-nosing (which i know you won't, because you i'm generally oblivious to site politics) if you please, but overall this is a pretty gos site, and most of us could learn to take ourselves a little less seriously
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costargh, I really think there was nothing wrong with what happened in the English thread, and you blew it out of proportion. brendan has been unfairly made the scapegoat here. If any staff are to be blamed, it is enwiabe for making an authoritative intervention, but I think giving brendan global moderator status is overdue, but that is the decision of those actually who pay money to run FSN.
lol how much is it to become a VIP of FSN ?
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actually tbh dan, i took offence to the whole whore/slut thing you did to me as well.
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lol how much is it to become a VIP of FSN ?
What do you mean? The people who pay money to run FSN are the people who pay for the webhosting server.
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In response to ego:
costargh has made it clear that there is too much ego in brendan, enwiabe and I. I am not going to back this up, but I am going to suggest this:
We are argumentative. We are not egotistic. We just have strong opinions, and we respond to what we think wrong, and support what we think is right. It is as simple as that. If you have misread this as ego, perhaps you ought to read what other people are saying about letting your own ego down and accepting an outcome of a debate.
What happened in the English thread can be summarized like this: brendan made a claim, costargh found the claim as ignorant, but instead of attacking the claim, he attacked brendan by questioning his maturity as a university student. Brendan highlights the logical fallacy associated with "attacks on the man" and then costargh starts the conundrum that brendan is filled with ego, and starts this whole drama.
My opinion: bloody overreaction.
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Coblin I have never called you egotistic. I actually changed my mind about you a longgggggggg time ago after we had an argument and realised that you were very argumentative in a good way.
IMO what differs between you and Brendan is that in some instances you are willing to accept other peoples views and even acknowledge some points they make. Sort of like a "yes but no" argument. What I don't like is people who just argue without acknowledging that their are at least 2 sides to every argument. That is what comes across as egotistic because it is more about ones own power and elitism, not a healthy debate.
Enwiabe I have a great deal of respect for but of course I dont agree with everything he says. That is natural.
What I still don't understand is how moderators can still refuse to accept that not only I, but other people have told of our observations but we are being dismissed as a false perception.
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IMO what differs between you and Brendan is that in some instances you are willing to accept other peoples views and even acknowledge some points they make. Sort of like a "yes but no" argument. What I don't like is people who just argue without acknowledging that their are at least 2 sides to every argument. That is what comes across as egotistic because it is more about ones own power and elitism, not a healthy debate.
I'm not going to accept arguments that are clearly false and illogical. It was obvious that in the religion thread there were arguments made, and I was rebutting them. There was the pro-there-exists-a-god side, and I was rebutting their false arguments. This is a place of free discussion and I was freely discussing. There is no rule against rebutting false arguments. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean its "about ones own power and elitism, not a healthy debate." I quote colin:
We are argumentative. We are not egotistic. We just have strong opinions, and we respond to what we think wrong, and support what we think is right. It is as simple as that. If you have misread this as ego, perhaps you ought to read what other people are saying about letting your own ego down and accepting an outcome of a debate.
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Its a false argument in your mind. Not everyones. I didnt support any side on that thread and I still got hammered
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Its a false argument in your mind. Not everyones. I didnt support any side on that thread and I still got hammered
Yes, and just because it is not a false argument in everyone's mind, doesn't mean it isn't a false argument. I've shown the unsoundness and lack of cogency in particular arguments many times.
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Regarding debates, this is a place of free discussion, but the difference with me is that I freely discuss the ideas and the arguments not the credibility of the users.
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Then why did you make such a post in the English forum.
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Then why did you make such a post in the English forum.
The post didn't discuss the credibility of the users. He simply made a claim.
Here's the thing: If a claim is outrageous, you respond to the claim, not to the person who made the claim. That is how you make the most impact. If you respond with an attack on the person who made the claim, you will open yourself to attack (ad hominem -- logical fallacy).
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How can I respond to a claim that has no substance behind it. I asked for a reason and he still did not post anything.
Only one sentence was directed at him. The rest was swept aside. I said the post was provocative and pathetic. Not him
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actually tbh dan, i took offence to the whole whore/slut thing you did to me as well.
Yeah man.
Oh hey a trend, three Asian chicks cop it. :o
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Oh dont go there kingtooth. Racism and any allegations are sure to get you in strife on these forums
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Oh dont go there kingtooth. Racism and any allegations are sure to get you in strife on these forums
Ooh. I wonder...
Fuck you enwiabe, shithead fucktard you! :D ;D
Sup.
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:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
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of what?
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of the "big egos that conquer this site"
do u believe that
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And by endorsing your staff you are making your members feel inadequate and intimidated.
The only thing that you can imply from enwiabe endorsing his staff, is that he endorses his staff. You can infer from that whatever you like, but that doesn't automatically mean your inference is correct, valid or even reasonable.
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In light of these events, I think we need to have a thread in some sort of board, stickied and to be used as a convenient link to be pasted to people who misunderstand brendan.
It should be called "Don't take brendan personally," and should address the confronting nature of his argumentative responses. It should try to offer a much more measured perspective on brendan's responses. It should definitely cover the topic of logical fallacies, and explain the merits of paying careful attention to them as a rigorous thinker.
What do you guys think?
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In light of these events, I think we need to have a thread in some sort of board, stickied and to be used as a convenient link to be pasted to people who misunderstand brendan.
It should be called "Don't take brendan personally," and should address the confronting nature of his argumentative responses. It should try to offer a much more measured perspective on brendan's responses. It should definitely cover the topic of logical fallacies, and explain the merits of paying careful attention to them as a rigorous thinker.
What do you guys think?
Seems like a good idea to me ;D
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In light of these events, I think we need to have a thread in some sort of board, stickied and to be used as a convenient link to be pasted to people who misunderstand brendan.
It should be called "Don't take brendan personally," and should address the confronting nature of his argumentative responses. It should try to offer a much more measured perspective on brendan's responses. It should definitely cover the topic of logical fallacies, and explain the merits of paying careful attention to them as a rigorous thinker.
What do you guys think?
Or Brendan could attach a disclaimer to his signature. :P
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Or I could just continue to argue cause it makes my day ::)
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disclaimer: "forgive me, I am a law student' :D
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why do people argue?
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why do people argue?
it's human nature i guess.
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why do people argue?
Broadens the mind.
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Straight after this post, I'm going to delete my account and I won't be back :) I'm sure most of you will be very pleased at my going, since I've been a selfish, show-off as most of you have branded me, but hey, that's just my style. I have no interest in returning to a VCE forum when VCE was so long ago and scores dissipate in a matter of moments. I'll take the time to particularly wish you all the best of luck wherever you go, whether it be University, Tafe, or full time work or even traveling. If you ever listened to me, then hear me out here - life is what you make of it, and your attitude plays a huge factor in it.
For me, I took on life and my studies with a 'You can't beat me' attitude and I've expressed that view everywhere, and been prone to quite a bit of animosity. Nevertheless, however disrespectful the comment, or incoherent or nonsensical, I'm sure those people will also forgive me for being myself and take into account my standards are probably far higher than anyone else's (Look at the fury when i expressed my displeasure at a 48 in English. I merely expressed that it was my weakest subject, nothing provoking about it, but the people who attacked me don't realise that my standards are sky high). Just remember that your attitude shapes the way you view life, and if you have a 'Never say never' attitude or something like that, success will always be just around the corner.
Lastly, I'd like to thank the main people who made my time worthwhile here, if i forget anyone, then you probably don't count.
Ahmad - a FANTASTIC person and a true mathematical genius. I know you will go far in your dreams!
Collin - A very helpful person, our views haven't always been parallel but you have a really good attitude, keep it up.
Odette - I'm glad I could have helped you a bit through your miscalculating enter. Good luck with everything!
Toothpick - Good luck with everything!
Enwiabe - Mutual respect for this guy, a very smart person, and props to setting up this site which apparently is better than BoS.
Mel (Caramel) - Just wanted to congratulate you on your fantastic scores!
Can't remember anyone else :)
Oh and Kingmar, I never understood the hate you showed towards me, but I'm sure you'll be glad I'm gone :P Good luck to you too.
Signing out!
AKIRA.
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Thanks Mindreko.
I wonder what you mean by having a good attitude... :)
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Thanks for the help I appreciate it, it's sad to see you go though :( the very best of luck to you =)
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Aw, bye Mindreko AkirA 'other-Ahmad' 99.95 dude. ;)
Good luck to you too!
Someone take away that "Delete this account" button.
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Bai Mindreko
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Bye AkirA, it's a pity to see such a valued member of our community (as evident by those that have replied to this thread) disappear due to the disrespect of others.
Does anybody have any suggestions as to how this type of account termination can be prevented? Whilst 3/300+ members doesn't seem like a lot, the fact that these members are terminating these accounts due to the actions of others warrants concern, for me at least.
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It's been fun having you around through VCE. Given your awesome scores I'm sure you'll be successful in which ever path you take! Heck, you might even see me around UoM one day, be sure to say hi :P. Farewell Mindreko, my alter ego. :)
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Bye AkirA, it's a pity to see such a valued member of our community (as evident by those that have replied to this thread) disappear due to the disrespect of others.
Does anybody have any suggestions as to how this type of account termination can be prevented? Whilst 3/300+ members doesn't seem like a lot, the fact that these members are terminating these accounts due to the actions of others warrants concern, for me at least.
I don't think AkirA left because of animosity. He seems to want to leave because VCE is over. The earlier losses were from the "Karma" system, I believe. The rate of losses has diminished, and there are certainly various factors that can be attributed to this:
* novelty of Karma (or the "reason" system) has worn down
* IRC replaces Karma as a vent for dislike against particular members
What may cause members to continue to leave:
* overly interventionist moderation <-- I hope it isn't this, but I say moderator intervention ought to be minimised.
Heck, you might even see me around UoM one day, be sure to say hi :P. Farewell Mindreko, my alter ego. :)
Yeah, in the mirror! :P
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I guess I admire AkirA (or Mindreko, whatever) for the fact that he wasn't afraid to express his sky-high ambitions and still be accurate about them.
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I'm happy I didn't leave and I agree that Akira probably did leave because he really didn't see the point returning to a VCE site when he has already finished VCE.
That said, I would like to thank all the post-VCE members who continue to contribute to the forum. You are most definitely at the heart of this forum and I for one would probably not continue to come to this site if a number of other highly developed post-VCE students decided to cease their contribution to this site.
Special mentions to:
Coblin
Odette
Ahmed
Nick
Also others such as Eriny and Caramel I have high respect for.
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I'm happy I didn't leave and I agree that Akira probably did leave because he really didn't see the point returning to a VCE site when he has already finished VCE.
That said, I would like to thank all the post-VCE members who continue to contribute to the forum. You are most definitely at the heart of this forum and I for one would probably not continue to come to this site if a number of other highly developed post-VCE students decided to cease their contribution to this site.
Special mentions to:
Coblin
Odette
Ahmed
Nick
Also others such as Eriny and Caramel I have high respect for.
it's Ahmad :P
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Yeah. Ahmed is gualmali. lol
Its extremely sad to see AkirA aka Mindreko leave :(
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Aww thanks Costargh =)
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Bye Mindreko. I wish you the very best in your future endeavours!
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Defiler has left also?
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Defiler has left also?
the good sir has left in peace indeed ;D