ATAR Notes: Forum
Uni Stuff => Faculties => Health sciences => Topic started by: roly182 on December 17, 2008, 08:53:28 pm
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Hey guys. Found out i can get a guaranteed full fee place in postgrad med at melbourne as my enter was 99.25.
Does anybody know how i could go about paying for this course and how much it is likely to be?
Could i do fee-help through HECS?
Or will i be able to take out a loan at a bank or something?
Any help would be really appreciated!
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And they didn't give you a scholarship with that awesome ENTER score? :o
But in all honesty, be a tutor. You get good money, and have achieved excellent results n your studies. And best of all, if you are privately tutoring, you won't need to give half of your money to a tutoring organisation that you work for! :)
Or start some kind of job. I like temping. :)... It's not fixed, and the pay is great compared to retail.
I guess you could get a HECS debt, but you'd want to pay it off as soon as possible, as it will probably build up in interest at the end of the year? (Don't really know how HECS works XD)
Well, good luck, you will do really well in Medicine. :)
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FEE-HELP only goes up to about $100k for a medical degree. But the whole course will probably cost around $250k so you will need to find the other $150k. I don't know that banks will lend money for this kind of stuff here in Australia anyway, particularly given the credit crisis.
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My friend asked their careers co-ordinator, and it is supposedly a massive $40k a year. In the end, its roughly $190k for the med, and $25k for the CSP bio-med. I can't guarantee the truth of these numbers though. As for the rest of your questions, I have no idea how any of that works.
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Oh ohk thanks guys. So does anybody know anyone doing full-fee med? I dont come from a wealthy family so i couldnt pay for it like that, and part time job though uni i am certain would not be enough! So is this really an option for me?
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Does anybody know how they allocate the CSP places in the graduate degrees @ UoM?
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Yeh, the full fee amount for undergrad med was about $40k, so i would expect it to be the same
Does anybody know how they allocate the CSP places in the graduate degrees @ UoM?
I suppose like all degrees, by merit, otherwise i'm not sure what you mean
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Yeh, the full fee amount for undergrad med was about $40k, so i would expect it to be the same
Does anybody know how they allocate the CSP places in the graduate degrees @ UoM?
I suppose like all degrees, by merit, otherwise i'm not sure what you mean
What factors would influence the decision? Combination of GPA+GAMSAT+Interview? i.e. same as under-grad entry pretty much
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Yeh, the full fee amount for undergrad med was about $40k, so i would expect it to be the same
Does anybody know how they allocate the CSP places in the graduate degrees @ UoM?
I suppose like all degrees, by merit, otherwise i'm not sure what you mean
What factors would influence the decision? Combination of GPA+GAMSAT+Interview? i.e. same as under-grad entry pretty much
Yeh, it'll pretty much the same way they chose applicants for their old graduate course, using those three criteria, the only difference being they have a guaranteed entry system now so that might take away a few of the spots
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Oh ohk thanks guys. So does anybody know anyone doing full-fee med? I dont come from a wealthy family so i couldnt pay for it like that, and part time job though uni i am certain would not be enough! So is this really an option for me?
Probably not. Congrats on your score, but no, i dont think it's wise to be $250 000 in debt by the time you finish UNI.
This is what's wrong with the stupid Australian higher education system. The wealthy are allowed to enter Medical schools such as BOND UNI- with a significantly lower ENTER- just because they're 'rich'. Does being rich make you anymore competent at being a doctor/dentist? Further, is it fair that a person with a 99.XX misses out on medicine, because he/she are unable to pay of the MASSIVE fee for medicine?
I guess it's expected- given that Education is like the second biggest revenue maker in Australia.
/rant.
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Oh ohk thanks guys. So does anybody know anyone doing full-fee med? I dont come from a wealthy family so i couldnt pay for it like that, and part time job though uni i am certain would not be enough! So is this really an option for me?
Probably not. Congrats on your score, but no, i dont think it's wise to be $250 000 in debt by the time you finish UNI.
This is what's wrong with the stupid Australian higher education system. The wealthy are allowed to enter Medical schools such as BOND UNI- with a significantly lower ENTER- just because they're 'rich'. Does being rich make you anymore competent at being a doctor/dentist? Further, is it fair that a person with a 99.XX misses out on medicine, because he/she are unable to pay of the MASSIVE fee for medicine?
I guess it's expected- given that Education is like the second biggest revenue maker in Australia.
/rant.
It costs alot to run a medical course and in the US, a USD$250,000 debt to a non-government third-party is pretty much standard
We offer people a better chance to med than any other country in the world i would argue
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is it fair that a person with a 99.XX misses out on medicine, because he/she are unable to pay of the MASSIVE fee for medicine?
Is it fair that a person misses out on a ferrari because they are unable to pay 200k+? It's not like banning Bond Uni from offering full-fee med degrees is going to make any difference to the person who couldn't get a CSP place.
We offer people a better chance to med than any other country in the world i would argue
I am not so sure about that given the very high ENTER scores required due to restriction on the number of medical places that universities can offer due to government quotas.
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Oh ohk thanks guys. So does anybody know anyone doing full-fee med? I dont come from a wealthy family so i couldnt pay for it like that, and part time job though uni i am certain would not be enough! So is this really an option for me?
Probably not. Congrats on your score, but no, i dont think it's wise to be $250 000 in debt by the time you finish UNI.
This is what's wrong with the stupid Australian higher education system. The wealthy are allowed to enter Medical schools such as BOND UNI- with a significantly lower ENTER- just because they're 'rich'. Does being rich make you anymore competent at being a doctor/dentist? Further, is it fair that a person with a 99.XX misses out on medicine, because he/she are unable to pay of the MASSIVE fee for medicine?
I guess it's expected- given that Education is like the second biggest revenue maker in Australia.
/rant.
It costs alot to run a medical course and in the US, a USD$250,000 debt to a non-government third-party is pretty much standard
We offer people a better chance to med than any other country in the world i would argue
Question is still there to. Why are rich people, who can afford full-fee, allowed to get into med with a lower ENTER, while those who get 99.XX cant?
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Oh ohk thanks guys. So does anybody know anyone doing full-fee med? I dont come from a wealthy family so i couldnt pay for it like that, and part time job though uni i am certain would not be enough! So is this really an option for me?
Probably not. Congrats on your score, but no, i dont think it's wise to be $250 000 in debt by the time you finish UNI.
This is what's wrong with the stupid Australian higher education system. The wealthy are allowed to enter Medical schools such as BOND UNI- with a significantly lower ENTER- just because they're 'rich'. Does being rich make you anymore competent at being a doctor/dentist? Further, is it fair that a person with a 99.XX misses out on medicine, because he/she are unable to pay of the MASSIVE fee for medicine?
I guess it's expected- given that Education is like the second biggest revenue maker in Australia.
/rant.
It costs alot to run a medical course and in the US, a USD$250,000 debt to a non-government third-party is pretty much standard
We offer people a better chance to med than any other country in the world i would argue
Question is still there to. Why are rich people, who can afford full-fee, allowed to get into med with a lower ENTER, while those who get 99.XX cant?
Money opens a lot of doors!
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Why are rich people, who can afford full-fee, allowed to get into med with a lower ENTER, while those who get 99.XX cant?
There's a university willing to offer a place, and there is student willing to pay the price. Why should their agreement not be allowed?
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is it fair that a person with a 99.XX misses out on medicine, because he/she are unable to pay of the MASSIVE fee for medicine?
Is it fair that a person misses out on a ferrari because they are unable to pay 200k+?
We offer people a better chance to med than any other country in the world i would argue
I am not so sure about that given the very high ENTER scores required due to restriction on the number of medical places that universities can offer due to government quotas.
Brenden, me and you both know- although you'll fight that it is concerning the same aspect, that these two situations are completely different. Think of it this way, how would you feel, if you got a 99.25- but because you couldnt afford to pay your way through UNI, you cant get into your life long dream of MED. While on the other hand, a person who achieves a 94.25 (although still a good score) gets in, just because his dad owns a big company and can pay off his debt easily.
But ofcourse, i know that you wont acknowledge it, so no use trying with you.
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Oh ohk thanks guys. So does anybody know anyone doing full-fee med? I dont come from a wealthy family so i couldnt pay for it like that, and part time job though uni i am certain would not be enough! So is this really an option for me?
Probably not. Congrats on your score, but no, i dont think it's wise to be $250 000 in debt by the time you finish UNI.
This is what's wrong with the stupid Australian higher education system. The wealthy are allowed to enter Medical schools such as BOND UNI- with a significantly lower ENTER- just because they're 'rich'. Does being rich make you anymore competent at being a doctor/dentist? Further, is it fair that a person with a 99.XX misses out on medicine, because he/she are unable to pay of the MASSIVE fee for medicine?
I guess it's expected- given that Education is like the second biggest revenue maker in Australia.
/rant.
It costs alot to run a medical course and in the US, a USD$250,000 debt to a non-government third-party is pretty much standard
We offer people a better chance to med than any other country in the world i would argue
Question is still there to. Why are rich people, who can afford full-fee, allowed to get into med with a lower ENTER, while those who get 99.XX cant?
Because universities are ultimately businesses, thay have bills and staff to pay, research money to lobby for, it's not like full fee kids get in with scores like 7x.xx or anything like that, you'll find the competition is so strong there are some kids with scores in the top 1% of the state who still only get offered full fee spots in graduate med courses. Besides there are so many sets of criteria, you can't simple use ENTER to decide if an applicant is better than another
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Oh ohk thanks guys. So does anybody know anyone doing full-fee med? I dont come from a wealthy family so i couldnt pay for it like that, and part time job though uni i am certain would not be enough! So is this really an option for me?
Try out for CSP med at the end of your biomedicine this means doing the GAMSAT and weathering the competition. You can use the "full fee" as a safety net incase u dont do well in that. Unfortunately us non 99.XXers dont have a safety net.
I dunno this is just my guess...
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Oh ohk thanks guys. So does anybody know anyone doing full-fee med? I dont come from a wealthy family so i couldnt pay for it like that, and part time job though uni i am certain would not be enough! So is this really an option for me?
Probably not. Congrats on your score, but no, i dont think it's wise to be $250 000 in debt by the time you finish UNI.
This is what's wrong with the stupid Australian higher education system. The wealthy are allowed to enter Medical schools such as BOND UNI- with a significantly lower ENTER- just because they're 'rich'. Does being rich make you anymore competent at being a doctor/dentist? Further, is it fair that a person with a 99.XX misses out on medicine, because he/she are unable to pay of the MASSIVE fee for medicine?
I guess it's expected- given that Education is like the second biggest revenue maker in Australia.
/rant.
It costs alot to run a medical course and in the US, a USD$250,000 debt to a non-government third-party is pretty much standard
We offer people a better chance to med than any other country in the world i would argue
Question is still there to. Why are rich people, who can afford full-fee, allowed to get into med with a lower ENTER, while those who get 99.XX cant?
Because universities are ultimately businesses, thay have bills and staff to pay, research money to lobby for, it's not like full fee kids get in with scores like 7x.xx or anything like that, you'll find the competition is so strong there are some kids with scores in the top 1% of the state who still only get offered full fee spots in graduate med courses. Besides there are so many sets of criteria, you can't simple use ENTER to decide if an applicant is better than another
So they use money instead. very nice.
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Also, there is a more insidious aspect of rich people in med courses involving people who take CSP bonded spots, intending to "buy out" the spot so they don't have to fulfill their post-graduate working obligations
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these two situations are completely different. Think of it this way, how would you feel, if you got a 99.25- but because you couldnt afford to pay your way through UNI, you cant get into your life long dream of MED. While on the other hand, a person who achieves a 94.25 (although still a good score) gets in, just because his dad owns a big company and can pay off his debt easily.
That feeling is called envy.
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So they use money instead. very nice.
Come off it, it's not like that at all
Universities need money, as i said, this course is not by any means cheap to run
What should we do about it anyway, money can be used to send a child to a better secondary school, get private tutors, all kinds of advantages that build up to a place in any course
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is it fair that a person with a 99.XX misses out on medicine, because he/she are unable to pay of the MASSIVE fee for medicine?
Is it fair that a person misses out on a ferrari because they are unable to pay 200k+? It's not like banning Bond Uni from offering full-fee med degrees is going to make any difference to the person who couldn't get a CSP place.
We offer people a better chance to med than any other country in the world i would argue
I am not so sure about that given the very high ENTER scores required due to restriction on the number of medical places that universities can offer due to government quotas.
I agree with BA22, australia offers the best opportunity to do MED. In asian countries (where the population is way bigger and seats are same as in australia) the competition is like a billion times harder.
Atleast australia offers rural and bonded schemes plus flexible post grad options
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What should we do about it anyway,
I've heard of people saying that parents should effectively be taxed when they spend their own money on their child's education.
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these two situations are completely different. Think of it this way, how would you feel, if you got a 99.25- but because you couldnt afford to pay your way through UNI, you cant get into your life long dream of MED. While on the other hand, a person who achieves a 94.25 (although still a good score) gets in, just because his dad owns a big company and can pay off his debt easily.
That feeling is called envy.
LOL. Im not even in the running. So no, its not envy. Trust me. But i know nothing can be done about it, and that's fine. I just wanted to say my opinion on the matter (and i am entitled to it). But yes, not envy.
And BA22..I acknowledge it, im just saying it's unfair.
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And BA22..I acknowledge it, im just saying it's unfair.
I know, and i used to think the same way too, but pragmatically speaking, full fee students keep my fees lower, so in a way i support them as i couldn't possibly afford to do the course
But i don't like the argument that John get a better ENTER than Jeff so he "deserves" a spot more than John, which is what the whole "unfair" argument is really based on, because it isn't that simple
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I've heard people saying that i shouldn't do it because i would have a 250,000 debt to pay off. But really, wouldn't it reall be like $160,000 as it is around 40 per year? (grad med at melb is 4 years). I dont really care about the debt after med, as i dont mind not earning much for a while why i pay it back, at least i will be a doctor, but its the GETTING the money for the course. I have to pay upfront at the start of each semester and if fee-help is only aroung 100,000 ive still got a fair bit i would have to come up with during studying. I want to know if anyone thinks this is feasible or knows anyone who has done something similiar. For instance, working through biomed course and saving all money for the last few years of med.
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And BA22..I acknowledge it, im just saying it's unfair.
I know, and i used to think the same way too, but pragmatically speaking, full fee students keep my fees lower, so in a way i support them as i couldn't possibly afford to do the course
But i don't like the argument that John get a better ENTER than Jeff so he "deserves" a spot more than John, which is what the whole "unfair" argument is really based on, because it isn't that simple
And i definitely dont like the, Jeff has more money than John, so pick him instead.
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And BA22..I acknowledge it, im just saying it's unfair.
I know, and i used to think the same way too, but pragmatically speaking, full fee students keep my fees lower, so in a way i support them as i couldn't possibly afford to do the course
But i don't like the argument that John get a better ENTER than Jeff so he "deserves" a spot more than John, which is what the whole "unfair" argument is really based on, because it isn't that simple
And i definitely dont like the, Jeff has more money than John, so pick him instead.
There's a few things you don't consider though:
1. Who ever said the highest ENTER made the best doctor? Quite a lot of high scoring students are just made to go into medicine by their parents, whereas many of the ones who 'pay their way in' are actually stretching themselves to do something they genuinely want to do.
2. There are already places allocated to people wanting to enter on merit; if you don't make the cut, bad luck. As people have said, universities need money and without full-fee places, the quality of the course drops for EVERYONE. Well in fact, I think universities simply couldn't survive.
Obviously there's many cases these two points don't cover, and they weren't meant to anyway. Obviously I'm not cold hearted and am blatantly saying it's all ok, but just pointing out that there's really not much we can do about it and it's not necessarily a bad thing either.
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And BA22..I acknowledge it, im just saying it's unfair.
I know, and i used to think the same way too, but pragmatically speaking, full fee students keep my fees lower, so in a way i support them as i couldn't possibly afford to do the course
But i don't like the argument that John get a better ENTER than Jeff so he "deserves" a spot more than John, which is what the whole "unfair" argument is really based on, because it isn't that simple
And i definitely dont like the, Jeff has more money than John, so pick him instead.
It doesn't work like that
John and Jeff both must first equally miss out an a CSP spot
But Jeff luckily get another shot, and his money helps the uni fund more CSP spots so more johns have the opportunity to study med in an affordable manner
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And BA22..I acknowledge it, im just saying it's unfair.
I know, and i used to think the same way too, but pragmatically speaking, full fee students keep my fees lower, so in a way i support them as i couldn't possibly afford to do the course
But i don't like the argument that John get a better ENTER than Jeff so he "deserves" a spot more than John, which is what the whole "unfair" argument is really based on, because it isn't that simple
And i definitely dont like the, Jeff has more money than John, so pick him instead.
It doesn't work like that
John and Jeff both must first equally miss out an a CSP spot
But Jeff luckily get another shot, and his money helps the uni fund more CSP spots so more johns have the opportunity to study med in an affordable manner
So John misses out b/c of financial issues, while the less achieving (umat, TER ect) Jeff makes it.
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Yes, but you keep ignoring the pay-off
But jeff and john BOTH miss out, when they both apply for CSP spots they are equal. But johns need jeffs to ensure the course is affordable, it's not intentionally cold-hearted, it's just economics
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I'm eligible for the 'guaranteed' CSP place in post-graduate med because of my ENTER. (conditional on 75% average though)
How much would the CSP graduate med course be? Maybe $6-7000 per year?
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I'm eligible for the 'guaranteed' CSP place in post-graduate med because of my ENTER. (conditional on 75% average though)
How much would the CSP graduate med course be? Maybe $6-7000 per year?
Congats on your spot!
Well, the undergraduate CSP for med is $8500 a year, so it's likely to be around that
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I'm eligible for the 'guaranteed' CSP place in post-graduate med because of my ENTER. (conditional on 75% average though)
How much would the CSP graduate med course be? Maybe $6-7000 per year?
Congats on your spot!
Well, the undergraduate CSP for med is $8500 a year, so it's likely to be around that
Thanks BA22.
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So John misses out b/c of financial issues, while the less achieving (umat, TER ect) Jeff makes it.
Why bother raising the point, actually?
I know this will sound cynical, but both the umat and TER systems are pretty flawed when it comes to selecting the 'best' doctors(however you define that); at most I suppose they can select a smarter cohort. So why not throw in financial circumstances into the mix, its not like this is a case where if you remove full-fee places, suddenly all med students will become awesomesauce.
After all, the issue of who is more 'deserving' to study medicine is based mainly on the individual's level of passion, which unfortunately is a quality that cannot be 100% accurately assessed.
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did you go to LHS?
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is it fair that a person with a 99.XX misses out on medicine, because he/she are unable to pay of the MASSIVE fee for medicine?
Is it fair that a person misses out on a ferrari because they are unable to pay 200k+? It's not like banning Bond Uni from offering full-fee med degrees is going to make any difference to the person who couldn't get a CSP place.
We offer people a better chance to med than any other country in the world i would argue
I am not so sure about that given the very high ENTER scores required due to restriction on the number of medical places that universities can offer due to government quotas.
I agree with BA22, australia offers the best opportunity to do MED. In asian countries (where the population is way bigger and seats are same as in australia) the competition is like a billion times harder.
Atleast australia offers rural and bonded schemes plus flexible post grad options
I agree, a least in Australia it's fairer. In some countries, also, children of diplomatic personnel are given the highest priority for entry. It's absolutely unfair to those who actually got the marks to do their course. This, unfortunately, tends to happen in Sri Lanka.
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did you go to LHS?
Yeah! How come?
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Win Tattslotto :P... Powerball and it'll solve all your problems ;D
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It probably looks feasible on paper, but not every parent can afford to have a child at home that does not contribute. The fees of the course are not the only expense.
Plus you can't work enough to earn the required money to pay off the debt. FEE-HELP allows $100,000 to be borrowed to contribute to the fees, but that leaves you at least $60,000 to earn, which is very difficult to acheive whilst paying for everyday expenses and extra expenses of the course
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Yeh, it's not the $100,000 of FEE-HELP that's a problem, its the other $60,000 + textbooks etc. These expenses need to be paid before you graduate and make money from the course
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http://www.futurestudents.unimelb.edu.au/fees/aust/subject-fees.html#ug
graduate med is $18700 per year at Melbourne
FEE HELP for med dent or vet science is $102000
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Yeh, it's not the $100,000 of FEE-HELP that's a problem, its the other $60,000 + textbooks etc. These expenses need to be paid before you graduate and make money from the course
Whats the other $60000 for?
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Never mind, i was wrong
I assumed that the undergraduate full fee was the same as the graduate one
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why is that cost listed in the 2009 tuition fees when the med course commences in 2011? Will it be the same do you think?
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Probably because there is already a Graduate med course running at Melb Uni
https://app.portal.unimelb.edu.au/CSCApplication/view/2009/555-AA
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ohh ohk. Are all grad med courses cheaper than undergrad?
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They are less years, for a start.
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Yeah but per year.. it just seems odd that grad med is more than half the price of undergrad.