ATAR Notes: Forum
Uni Stuff => Commerce => Faculties => Actuarial Studies => Topic started by: methodsboy on December 26, 2008, 06:23:16 pm
-
hey
I'm considering doing commerce at either UoM or Monash in 2010 but i won't be doing spesh in yr12.
Would i still be able to get accepted into the actuarial studies major?
-
you might be able to get away with it by doing some extra math subjects, but why won't you be doing spesh?
EDIT actually having a quick browse at the course, i can't see how you would get in actuarial studies without doing spesh
-
yeah you can but it is highly unadvisable. Actuarial is very difficult so doing spec will decrease your workload at uni. And u get a taste of the diffculty I guess.
-
Dude you got like 35 raw in methods, so it shows u got good fundamentals. Spesh is not as difficult as it sounds, just work hard in it and u will be fine.
-
Dude you got like 35 raw in methods, so it shows u got good fundamentals. Spesh is not as difficult as it sounds, just work hard in it and u will be fine.
i dnt like the topics such as polar coordinates, forces and complex numbers
-
in that case i would strongly advise you against doing actuarial studies , particularly given your score in methods.
-
Dude you got like 35 raw in methods, so it shows u got good fundamentals. Spesh is not as difficult as it sounds, just work hard in it and u will be fine.
i dnt like the topics such as polar coordinates, forces and complex numbers
How can you say that, have you done those sections?
I dont get what you mean by 'dont like'. You got the basic calculus fundamentals covered (this is the most important part in spesh anway).
You do physics- forces should be easy.
Polar numbers, well every one hates them :)
Nah the choice is yours, if you are willing to work hard spesh could help you heaps in terms of your scoring and uni. But if you are gonna slack off then it could cost you.
-
in that case i would strongly advise you against doing actuarial studies , particularly given your score in methods.
35 in MM in year 11 is not so bad, it shows he knows his maths, just needs to practice a bit more. The difference in my work ethic between yr 11 and 12 was huge so he could definitely do well in spesh if he wants to next year.
Again, i dont wanna pressure him. ;)
-
What kind of maths is contained in actuarial studies?
-
What kind of maths is contained in actuarial studies?
apparently spesh. but i noe ppl who didn't do spesh and got in.
-
What kind of maths is contained in actuarial studies?
apparently spesh. but i noe ppl who didn't do spesh and got in.
.........and they were never seen again.
-
I think a study score of 35 in Methods probably shows that you're not cut out for Actuarial - in the past (though this might have changed) you needed a SS of at least 36 in Spesh just to get into Actuarial at UoM.
-
I think a study score of 35 in Methods probably shows that you're not cut out for Actuarial - in the past (though this might have changed) you needed a SS of at least 36 in Spesh just to get into Actuarial at UoM.
I think its 38, because the dux of my school two years ago wasnt allowed to do actuarial studies because it required 38 for spesh, he got 37.
-
Hey.
I reckon its possible to get into the Acturial program At Melb Uni without spesh maths.
If so, this means that you have to take maths subjects as breadth.
I have a friend who is doing Commerce and is doing a acturial major without 3/4 spesh maths...
She did:
Semester 1: Calculus 1
Semester 2: Calculus 2 and Linear Algebra (im not sure why she did linear algebra that semester but I could always ask her :D)
-
I think a study score of 35 in Methods probably shows that you're not cut out for Actuarial - in the past (though this might have changed) you needed a SS of at least 36 in Spesh just to get into Actuarial at UoM.
Yeh but he is year 11, in my experience, my maths skills and work ethic improved heaps in a years time.
I believe the spesh score is now 38.
-
Hey.
I reckon its possible to get into the Acturial program At Melb Uni without spesh maths.
If so, this means that you have to take maths subjects as breadth.
I have a friend who is doing Commerce and is doing a acturial major without 3/4 spesh maths...
She did:
Semester 1: Calculus 1
Semester 2: Calculus 2 and Linear Algebra (im not sure why she did linear algebra that semester but I could always ask her :D)
kewl that gives me some hope. Does anyone know about the policies at Monash?
-
Hey.
I reckon its possible to get into the Acturial program At Melb Uni without spesh maths.
If so, this means that you have to take maths subjects as breadth.
I have a friend who is doing Commerce and is doing a acturial major without 3/4 spesh maths...
She did:
Semester 1: Calculus 1
Semester 2: Calculus 2 and Linear Algebra (im not sure why she did linear algebra that semester but I could always ask her :D)
kewl that gives me some hope. Does anyone know about the policies at Monash?
I'm guessing they'd have a pretty similar policy (and of course the maths courses at Monash would be easier).
Are you certain that you want to do Actuarial Studies? Not discouraging you particularly, but there's a pretty high dropout rate as it's an extremely difficult course.
-
^ im considering it. Is first year commerce just a general degree or do they make you pick your specialization when you first enrol?
-
^ im considering it. Is first year commerce just a general degree or do they make you pick your specialization when you first enrol?
at least if you plan on getting your CA accreditation or majoring in Actuarial Studies, you would have to pick it from the start. i did post up a first year program for Commerce students at UoM that keeps all your options open.
-
Entry Requirements to Major in Actuarial Studies
To major in actuarial studies you will need to meet the admission requirements for entry into the Bachelor of Commerce.
For more information on admission requirements please visit: www.bcom.unimelb.edu.au/bachelor/entry.html
In order to gain entry to the first year mathematics subjects you will need a study score of at least 37 in VCE Units 3 & 4 Specialist Mathematics or equivalent. Alternative study programs are possible for students who attended a school where VCE Specialist Mathematics or equivalent was not available, and for students who do not have the required study score in VCE Specialist Mathematics. For more information contact the Undergraduate Commerce Student Centre.
-
I've never heard much about actuarial studies (not really interested in commerce) but from what I can gather:
The role of the actuary involves the assessment, evaluation and management of the financial risks...As a result of this diverse background and their strong analytical skills, actuaries serve as financial advisers to a wide range of commercial organisations...In most cases, they are asked to tackle a wide range of financial problems, often involving future uncertainty.
Why is specialist maths needed? Is it just because of the calculus covered? It seems to be quite a difficult course but is it worth the hard work?
-
because you need the math, particularly the calculus.
you will need specialist level math if you want to advance in econ, finance or actuarial studies
-
and thats why my friend had to pick up Calculus 1 and Calculus 2 (not sure about linear algebra) as breadth studies in order to do the major in acturial studies.
-
Hey.
I reckon its possible to get into the Acturial program At Melb Uni without spesh maths.
If so, this means that you have to take maths subjects as breadth.
I have a friend who is doing Commerce and is doing a acturial major without 3/4 spesh maths...
She did:
Semester 1: Calculus 1
Semester 2: Calculus 2 and Linear Algebra (im not sure why she did linear algebra that semester but I could always ask her :D)
i had a look at the prereqs needed and that seems to be right
Hey.
I reckon its possible to get into the Acturial program At Melb Uni without spesh maths.
If so, this means that you have to take maths subjects as breadth.
I have a friend who is doing Commerce and is doing a acturial major without 3/4 spesh maths...
She did:
Semester 1: Calculus 1
Semester 2: Calculus 2 and Linear Algebra (im not sure why she did linear algebra that semester but I could always ask her :D)
kewl that gives me some hope. Does anyone know about the policies at Monash?
i would still advise you to do specialist mathematics if you are really keen on actuarial studies.
however your score of 35 for methods suggests that you might not be a suitable candidate for actuarial studies.
if you do choose to pursue the Actuarial Studies program at UoM, im pretty sure that it will rule you out of CA/CPA accreditation as you won't be able to fit in the subject BPA.
The only way you can create a first year program at UoM which keeps all your options open:
Actuarial accreditation, CA/CPA accreditation, econ major, finance major, etc. is for you to take Specialist Mathematics and get 38 or above
-
i would still advise you to do specialist mathematics if you are really keen on actuarial studies.
however your score of 35 for methods suggests that you might not be a suitable candidate for actuarial studies.
if you do choose to pursue the Actuarial Studies progra at UoM, im pretty sure that it will rule you out of CA/CPA accreditation as you won't be able to fit in the subject BPA.
Brendan, in your opinion, if one wished to pursue actuarial studies, what would you think their methods study score should be?
-
i would still advise you to do specialist mathematics if you are really keen on actuarial studies.
however your score of 35 for methods suggests that you might not be a suitable candidate for actuarial studies.
if you do choose to pursue the Actuarial Studies progra at UoM, im pretty sure that it will rule you out of CA/CPA accreditation as you won't be able to fit in the subject BPA.
Brendan, in your opinion, if one wished to pursue actuarial studies, what would you think their methods study score should be?
Well the specialist study score needs to be 38. So that scaled is say 48. To get scaled 48 in methods would take around 45 raw. So my rough estimate is 45 raw in methods.
-
Well the specialist study score needs to be 38. So that scaled is say 48. To get scaled 48 in methods would take around 45 raw. So my rough estimate is 45 raw in methods.
-
id say thats a bit rough.
getting an A+ in the methods exams should be enough. a few silly mistakes on the exams and you can be down to a score of ~39-42... however you would still have a strong grasp of the concepts to be able to get a score like that.
-
id say thats a bit rough.
getting an A+ in the methods exams should be enough. a few silly mistakes on the exams and you can be down to a score of ~39-42... however you would still have a strong grasp of the concepts to be able to get a score like that.
I think it would take more than just silly mistakes to drop to 35 though.
-
I wouldn't say Methods is a good indication of one's ability to succeed in actuarial studies though. A large proportion of Methods study score marks are lost just on careless mistakes. Actuarial studies and specialist in some aspects is difficult in the fact that some people just simply can't comprehend that level of Maths. Even VN's own super-god Ahmad just scraped your 'rough estimate', but he definitely seems capable of whatever actuarial studies has to offer.
EDIT: Pfft, others have already raised my point as I was typing ._.
-
I wouldn't say Methods is a good indication of one's ability to succeed in actuarial studies though.
It was more of a indicator of ability to get 38 or above in Spesh, which is the prereq for Actuarial Science program at UoM. You can dispute whether getting above 38 is good indicator of succeeding in subjects required for the Actuarial program, but the UoM math and econ departments certainly seem to think so.
-
id say thats a bit rough.
getting an A+ in the methods exams should be enough. a few silly mistakes on the exams and you can be down to a score of ~39-42... however you would still have a strong grasp of the concepts to be able to get a score like that.
I think it would take more than just silly mistakes to drop to 35 though.
i was referring to your '45ish raw' statement.
however i also disagree. With further maths last year, i knew all aspects of the course - and had no difficulty with any of the concepts, but silly mistakes in the exams brought me down to a 37.
-
With further maths last year, i knew all aspects of the course - and had no difficulty with any of the concepts, but silly mistakes in the exams brought me down to a 37.
Well I think the 37 tells a different story as to your knowledge of the content.
-
What is so challenging about what actuarial studies has to offer? (I'm not doubting the course, I'm just ignorant as I don't know what the course is. My knowledge of actuarial studies is very limited). Just interested =]
They pay off seems to be pretty good, though. ~$80-100k salary for this year.
-
your specialist study score isn't necessarily a good indicator either. the exam consists of several elaborate scenarios and accompanying questions. it can be difficult to complete it all satisfactorily in 2 hours. the calculus itself isn't particularly challenging and can be mastered without mastering the specialist exam.
Well of course there's no perfect indicator except the exam itself, but I'd still say Specialist would be the best indicator as it more accurately measures one's ability to comprehend higher level Maths, rather than just grind questions which can be handled by little kids in Asian countries which you see in Methods.
It was more of a indicator of ability to get 38 or above in Spesh, which is the prereq for Actuarial Science program at UoM. You can dispute whether getting above 38 is good indicator of succeeding in subjects required for the Actuarial program, but the UoM math and econ departments certainly seem to think so.
Well that's assuming that people will score approximately the same in either subject, which they clearly do not. Specialist and Methods require quite different skills in my opinion, and many people have quite big disparities between their Specialist and Methods scores, not only shown by my scores, but others as well (I'm not going to pull out a list of evidence but it definitely has happened to my friends too).
-
what im trying to say is there is a very very fine line between the reason for your score - and whether it is due to mistakes, or a lack of ability.
and my 37 was due primarily to being tricked by the exams. i had a strong grasp of how to actually do the maths, however i often mistook what exactly the question was asking me to do. I would apply the correct maths for what I thought I had to do, however this wasn't what was asked - and thus would lose me marks.
-
Well that's assuming that people will score approximately the same in either subject, which they clearly do not.
But it is a good assumption, because that's exactly how the VCE Math subjects were designed to scale.
Back to the original topic though. I don't think it would be such a good idea to do the Actuarial program at UoM given that:
- the candidate has a study score of 35 in methods, which in scaled subject score terms is much less than 38 raw in Specialist Mathematics.
- is not willing to take Specialist mathematics which may signal something about the candidate's ability in mathematics
- doing the Actuarial program at UoM without a 38 or above in Specialist Mathematics would mean ruling yourself out of CA/CPA accreditation for not being able to fit in BPA.
-
But like I said, they require quite different skills. Methods is more lower level knowledge, so people who just grind can often do quite well. This however does not work so well with Specialist and you actually need quite a good level of Mathematical comprehension. Since they require two quite different skills, this is just like saying the scaling system allows someone who took up French (yes exaggerated, but I lack a closer example) and Methods to do equally as well as they would if they took up Methods and Spesh. To me, they definitely seem like two quite distinct subjects. However, if you wish to disagree that's fine since there's really nothing supporting what I think; it's just my own experience with the subjects and how they felt when I undertook them, and obviously this will change between people.
-
But like I said, they require quite different skills. Methods is more lower level knowledge, so people who just grind can often do quite well. This however does not work so well with Specialist and you actually need quite a good level of Mathematical comprehension.
Yeah but scaling within the VCE Mathematics subjects specifically takes care of this:
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24798081-5018535,00.html
Mathematics
VCE mathematics studies are designed to cater for students of differing abilities and interests.
Specialist Mathematics is the most difficult, followed by Mathematical Methods and then by Further Mathematics.
To ensure that students undertaking the more difficult mathematics studies are not disadvantaged, Mathematical Methods is compared with Further Mathematics and adjusted up if necessary.
Similarly Specialist Mathematics is compared to Mathematical Methods and adjusted up if necessary.
-
Yeah but scaling within the VCE Mathematics subjects specifically takes care of this:
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24798081-5018535,00.html
Mathematics
VCE mathematics studies are designed to cater for students of differing abilities and interests.
Specialist Mathematics is the most difficult, followed by Mathematical Methods and then by Further Mathematics.
To ensure that students undertaking the more difficult mathematics studies are not disadvantaged, Mathematical Methods is compared with Further Mathematics and adjusted up if necessary.
Similarly Specialist Mathematics is compared to Mathematical Methods and adjusted up if necessary.
I'd respond to that but this thread's getting heavily derailed so I guess make up your own mind on whether you think you're capable. In trying to get back to the point, by no means am I saying go for actuary even if you didn't do too well in Methods; definitely don't underestimate the difficulty of actuarial studies - as Brendan someone said, it has a high drop out rate. I'm just saying that your Methods score is by no means an end all in deciding what you want to do.
-
I think someone else mentioned that it has a high drop out rate, I have no idea where the figure comes from, but I would not be surprised if it were high. Scaling within the VCE Mathematics subjects themselves is specifically designed so that you could compare scaled ENTER subject scores between the VCE Mathematics. This is different from how scaling works outside the VCE Mathematics subjects.
-
What exactly makes people say actuarial is so hard?
-
Hypothetically, what if someone got 50 in Methods but then decided not to do Specialist maths. What happens then?
-
they would have to do the program that squance's friend is doing which means your program will look exactly like this:
http://www.bcom.unimelb.edu.au/bachelor/actuarial_studies.html
but
Acc Math 1 is replaced with Calculus 1
Acc Math 2 is replaced with Calculus 2
Introduction to Actuarial Studies is replaced with Linear Algebra
Heres a first year program I prepared earlier than keeps all your options open:
http://vcenotes.com/forum/index.php/topic,2628.0.html
-
ookkk. what are your opinions of actuarial studies at Monash?
-
ookkk. what are your opinions of actuarial studies at Monash?
I'd rather not go to it. It's not fully accredited and it's in its infancy.
PS: Please spell "Commerce" and "actuarial" properly. It's embarrassing if you don't.
-
Hey.
I just asked my friend about the Calculus 2 and Linear Algebra.
Because of her high grade (87%) in Calculus 1, they allowed her to enrol in both Calculus 2 and Linear Algebra in the same semester (although I think anyone can do Calculus 2 and Linear Algebra in the same semester because both subjects only require Calculus 1 or spesh maths as a prerequisite).
She told me the reason why she did Calculus 2 and Linear Algebra was because she didn't have Maths 1 so this was an alternative way so she can get into the second year acturial program.
The prerequisites for Financial Maths 1 (second year actuarial subject) is
One of
(i) a mark of 60 or better in 620-120 UMEP Mathematics for High Achieving Students or 620-121 Mathematics A (Advanced) (for students who took these subjects in 2007 or earlier);
(ii) an average mark of 60 or better in 620-157 Mathematics 1 and 620-158 Mathematics 2, with a pass in each subject;
(iii) a mark of 75 or better in 620-141 Mathematics A;
(iv) an average mark of 75 or better in 620-155 Calculus 2 and 620-156 Linear Algebra (for enrolment in 2009 only);
(v) a mark of 75 or better in 620-156 Linear Algebra and a mark of 60 or better in 620-158 Mathematics 2; and
(vi) an average mark of 60 or better in 620-120 UMEP Mathematics for High Achieving Students and 620-158 Mathematics 2, with a pass in each subject (from the unimelb handbook https://app.portal.unimelb.edu.au/CSCApplication/view/2009/300-203).
And then there is the Probablility subject (https://app.portal.unimelb.edu.au/CSCApplication/view/2009/620-201) which requires
Calculus 2 with a grade of H2B or above, plus Linear Algebra;
Or
Accelerated Mathematics 1 (620-157 Mathematics 1 prior to 2009);
620-190 (UMEP Maths for High Achieving Students);
plus Accelerated Mathematics 2 (620-158 Mathematics 2 prior to 2009);
-
ookkk. what are your opinions of actuarial studies at Monash?
I'd rather not go to it. It's not fully accredited and it's in its infancy.
PS: Please spell "Commerce" and "actuarial" properly. It's embarrassing if you don't.
Yeah, go to UoM unless Monash is in the process of being accrediated by the IAA. If you go to UoM you get... exceptions from the professional exams (Part 1, and Part 2 for honours). YAY!! :)
-
Hey, reading this topic, and checking the new requirements for the University of Melbourne's Bachelor of Commerce majoring in Actuarial Studies, it seems that they've changed since this topic was started. I think now Specialist Maths is only highly recommended instead of compulsory. Am I right, or have I just not researched enough? O.o
-
That's correct :)
-
Yup you should definitely do specialist if you want to do actuarial at melbourne. The course is so rigid that you don't have much choice in first year - well it is pretty much set in stone. If you don't do specialist you need to complete calc 1 in 1st semester, then do calc 2 and linear algebra in 2nd semester with 1 of the other core units in summer. Or 1 of the math units summer semester, or you don't do introduction to actuarial studies in semester 2 as it isn't compulsory. I think it will be pretty tough if you take this path.
If you do specialist and achieve 27 or better you go straight into calc 2 in semester 1 and do linear algebra in semester 2 - all other units are set. To continue to 2nd year you need to get a 75 average for these subjects.
If you get better than 38 in specialist then you'll take the recommended math stream of accelerated math 1 in 1st semester and accelerated math 2 in 2nd semester - again all other units are set. I think you need a 65 average for these to continue.
There are also other units in first year that you need to achieve a certain average in to get accreditation.
-
I'm thinking of doing actuarial studies at Melbourne, and I've heard that you need a study score of 38 in Specialist to get in. Is this true? I've tried browsing the Melbourne Uni website and I can't find this requirement anywhere.
-
I'm thinking of doing actuarial studies at Melbourne, and I've heard that you need a study score of 38 in Specialist to get in. Is this true? I've tried browsing the Melbourne Uni website and I can't find this requirement anywhere.
Not true, you don't even need spesh to get into the course (although I think you have to do an extra unit to make up for it).
I've been told that 44+ spesh raw is definitely recommended though.
-
I'm thinking of doing actuarial studies at Melbourne, and I've heard that you need a study score of 38 in Specialist to get in. Is this true? I've tried browsing the Melbourne Uni website and I can't find this requirement anywhere.
Not true, you don't even need spesh to get into the course (although I think you have to do an extra unit to make up for it).
I've been told that 44+ spesh raw is definitely recommended though.
No 44 in spesh but got 46 in further, am I worthy? :D
-
Well I'm not in the course. But I was seriously considering it last year.
One of the main reasons I didn't choose it over med was because I knew I wasn't good enough at maths to handle it. Having said that, there are students doing really well in actuary who haven't done spesh before.
It really depends on your confidence with you mathematical ability.
As for 46 in further, I'd have to say that's not really relevant at all. The maths in further isn't comparable to anything in actuary :/ Looking at your methods score will be a better indication :)