ATAR Notes: Forum
General Discussion => General Discussion Boards => News and Politics => Topic started by: gfb on February 17, 2009, 05:10:36 pm
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Are you people insane? Israel are the #1 perpetrators of discriminating people because of where they come from. The chances of an ARAB visiting Israel are ZERO. My friend is Palestinian and the amount of shit he had o go through TO GET TO HIS OWN COUNTRY is ridiculous, and that's with an Australian passport.
To be frank, there are worse countries than Israel when it comes to freedom of movement (of the 'state enemy' class). Think Zimbabwe, Somalia, North Korea...
And, there are Arabs in Israel - what are you smoking?
Dude, Israelites see themselves superior when compared to all other nations. Realise the truth!. It is not any tom dick & harry saying this, it's in the torah! (not the original script- the bible & torah were changed according to peoples views).
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Are you people insane? Israel are the #1 perpetrators of discriminating people because of where they come from. The chances of an ARAB visiting Israel are ZERO. My friend is Palestinian and the amount of shit he had o go through TO GET TO HIS OWN COUNTRY is ridiculous, and that's with an Australian passport.
To be frank, there are worse countries than Israel when it comes to freedom of movement (of the 'state enemy' class). Think Zimbabwe, Somalia, North Korea...
And, there are Arabs in Israel - what are you smoking?
Dude, Israelites see themselves superior when compared to all other nations. Realise the truth!. It is not any tom dick & harry saying this, it's in the torah! (not the original script- the bible & torah were changed according to peoples views).
And the Koran doesn't say the same for Muslims...?
Prostelysing is pretty much in any religion you turn to.
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[/quote]
Dude, Israelites see themselves superior when compared to all other nations. Realise the truth!. It is not any tom dick & harry saying this, it's in the torah! (not the original script- the bible & torah were changed according to peoples views).
[/quote]
Israelites? are you referring to the Jews of today? or Israeli's maybe? I'm a secular Jew and I don't see myself as better than anyone because of their religion or nation, but I see myself as better than racist scum like yourself. According to the bible Jews are the "chosen people". However, the vast majority of Jews have never used this as a justification to discriminate others. The UAE is the Country not permitting in another individual because of their nationality not Israel. So, Shut the fuck up
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I'm just amused that gfb can claim that Jews claim superiority as dictated in the Torah (I'm not sure of the veracity of this assertion), yet neglects to mention the Muslim version as in the Koran.
Indeed those who are opposing Allah and His Messenger are bound to be humiliated. The Almighty has ordained: ‘‘I and My Messengers shall always prevail’’. Indeed Allah is Mighty and Powerful.
Apparently, a justification for a Jewish/Arab conflict centuries ago.
Cheers,
Excalibur
Proud Infidel
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I can recommend a few enlightening history books on the middle ages... so many ignorant people out there
who's ignorant?
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I can recommend a few enlightening history books on the middle ages... so many ignorant people out there
who's ignorant?
Apparently, we all need to 'realise the truth!'*.
* acts like gfb preaching anti-semitism
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Are you people insane? Israel are the #1 perpetrators of discriminating people because of where they come from. The chances of an ARAB visiting Israel are ZERO. My friend is Palestinian and the amount of shit he had o go through TO GET TO HIS OWN COUNTRY is ridiculous, and that's with an Australian passport.
To be frank, there are worse countries than Israel when it comes to freedom of movement (of the 'state enemy' class). Think Zimbabwe, Somalia, North Korea...
And, there are Arabs in Israel - what are you smoking?
Dude, Israelites see themselves superior when compared to all other nations. Realise the truth!. It is not any tom dick & harry saying this, it's in the torah! (not the original script- the bible & torah were changed according to peoples views).
And the Koran doesn't say the same for Muslims...?
Prostelysing is pretty much in any religion you turn to.
No. The Holy Quran does not state anything that critisizes any other religion or sees muslims superior compared to others. It is just the way YOU people want to understand things. The media for example crops certain verses and uses it for evidence (yet to only fool themselves and a certain portion of readers- the ones that generally can't speak for themselves or have any other point to make. Regurgitating is the word, yes yes.
Torah - Deuteronomy 5:6–21
You shall not kill.
Why do they kill?I can recommend a few enlightening history books on the middle ages... so many ignorant people out there
who's ignorant?
Apparently, we all need to 'realise the truth!'*.
* acts like gfb preaching anti-semitism
Yes, Excalibur, I hear and see your endless efforts in trying to act like me. Your sense of humour is wonderful, so wonderful.
Quite frankly, I would have nightmares if I tried acting like you. You would be a great lawyer or simply somebody that doesn't have there own say-without the influence/fear of OTHERS .
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But doesn't the Koran say:
"O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54"
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But doesn't the Koran say:
"O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54"
It really says that? Man thats pretty low.
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But doesn't the Koran say:
"O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54"
It really says that? Man thats pretty low.
I concur
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But doesn't the Koran say:
"O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54"
This is a very famous, and most misunderstood verse.
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"The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. They are beasts." Talmud: Baba mezia, 114b
"The Akum (non-Jew) is like a dog. Yes, the scripture teaches to honor the dog more than the non-Jew." Ereget Raschi Erod. 22 3
"It is the law to kill anyone who denies the Torah. The Christians belong to the denying ones of the Torah." Coschen hamischpat 425 Hagah 425. 5
"Every Jew, who spills the blood of the godless (non-Jews), is doing the same as making a sacrifice to God." Talmud: Bammidber raba c 21 & Jalkut 772
Then what are these?
Compared to this ( those who were insulting islam should read it) - Quoted from harunyahya.com
ISLAM'S ACCEPTANCE OF JUDAISM AND CHRISTIANITY
We are living in an era in which the world is desperately in need of peace, friendship, and solidarity. The tensions and conflicts that so defined the twentieth century continue in this new century, and innocent people all around the world continue to suffer from them.
Despite the urgent need for solidarity and cooperation, certain circles are inciting conflict, particularly conflict between the world's two greatest and deep-rooted civilizations. This issue needs to be scrutinized, as the war of civilizations that they envisage would have disastrous consequences for humanity. One of the best ways of preventing such a disaster is to strengthen the dialogue and cooperation between these civilizations. This is not a hard task, as there are no fundamental differences between Islam and the Judeo-Christian western world. To the contrary, there is much common ground between them. Considering the current situation and the nature of the world's problems, these shared values will make the cooperation necessary for solving them possible.
Today, ideological struggles continue to divide the world. However, Muslims are not at one pole and Jews and Christians are not at the opposing pole. In fact, one pole represents people who believe in God's existence and unity, and the other pole represents the unbelievers, who believe in such anti-religious ideologies as materialism and Darwinism. There is only one way to defeat the alliance of the various groups of unbelievers on an ideological level: eradicate the negative and destructive influences of anti-religious materialism and further the cause of a society dominated by morality, happiness, tranquility, security, and prosperity. This will be done by forming an alliance of all conscientious people, namely, sincere Christians, along with religious Jews and Muslims, who will come together and unite in this common cause.
There have been conflicts and disputes between members of these three religions in the past, but those were the result of the erroneous reasoning and evil motives of certain states, nations, and individuals who pursued their own economic and political gain instead of the central beliefs of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. One of the common aims of these divinely revealed religions is to ensure the happiness, security, peace, and tranquility of all people by opposing conflict.
Therefore, this dialogue and alliance will be based on the sincere believers' quest for justice, peace, and support for all people. The resulting dialogue will not be restricted to meetings and conferences, but will cement an alliance between people who advocate common values, fight for the same cause, and seek permanent solutions to common problems.
Muslims, Christians, and Jews have common principles of faith, worship, and moral values and face common dangers. Thus, the People of the Book (Christians and Jews) are called on to unite with Muslims as fellow believers opposed to atheism, anti-religiosity, and social as well as moral degeneration. All Jews, Christians, and Muslims who are sincere, conscientious, tolerant, helpful, conciliatory, reasonable, virtuous, peaceful, and fair to recognize that we believe in the same God and strive to live and extend the reach of God's morality, should spread this virtue around the world.
We Muslims love and respect Prophets Moses (pbuh) and Jesus (pbuh), know that they are loved and dear people in God's presence, and believe in all His Prophets. Furthermore, we respect Jewish and Christian beliefs, values, and traditions, for God commands us to invite the People of the Book to "unite on a common premise":
Say: "O People of the Book! Come to a proposition that is the same for us and you-that we should worship none but God, not associate any partners with Him, and not take one another as lords besides God." If they turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are Muslims." (Qur'an, 3:64)
Muslims are people who believe in the Qur'an revealed to Prophet Muhammad (may God bless him and grant him peace) as well as in the earlier divinely revealed books: the Pages of Abraham (pbuh), the Torah revealed to Moses (pbuh), the Book of Psalms revealed to David (pbuh), and the Bible revealed to Jesus (pbuh). However, over time these books were tampered with and therefore contain both accurate (e.g., belief in God, virtue, the Day of Judgment, and the rejection of idolatry), and inaccurate information. Some of the verses read:
He has sent down the Book to you with truth, confirming what was there before it. And He sent down the Torah and the Gospel. (Qur'an, 3:3-4)
We sent down the Torah containing guidance and light, and the Prophets who had submitted themselves gave judgment by it for the Jews?as did their scholars and their rabbis?by what they had been allowed to preserve of God's Book, to which they were witnesses. (Qur'an, 5:44)
God states that the People of the Book are believers as thus:
They are not all the same. There is a community among the People of the Book who are upright. They recite God's Signs throughout the night, and they prostrate. They believe in God and the Last Day, enjoin the right and forbid the wrong, and compete in doing good. They are among the righteous. You will not be denied the reward for any good thing you do. God knows those who guard against evil. (Qur'an, 3:113-15)
Among the People of the Book are some who believe in God and in what has been sent down to you and what was sent down to them, and who are humble before God. They do not sell God's Signs for a paltry price. Such people will have their reward with their Lord. And God is swift at reckoning. (Qur'an, 3:199)
Therefore, a Muslim's attitude toward the People of the Book reflects the probable existence of genuinely faithful people among them. Only God knows the hearts of people, and He reveals that some Jews and Christians have earned His good pleasure.
God reveals that He has created a way and a method for all nations. Throughout history, He has sent Prophets to people to inform them of His laws, commands, and prohibitions. Essentially, all Prophets have invited their nations to believe in and worship God and to abide by the limits
He has established for humanity. In other words, all true religions in their original state are based on the principles of not associating others with Him and of working to win His good pleasure, compassion, and Paradise. All nations are expected to follow God's will without fail and to do good deeds in order to earn His reward:
We have appointed a law and a practice for every one of you. Had God willed, He would have made you a single community, but He wanted to test you regarding what has come to you. So, compete with each other in doing good. Every one of you will return to God, and He will inform you regarding the things about which you differed. (Qur'an, 5:48)
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"And, there are Arabs in Israel - what are you smoking?"
Dude, that's cause they took their land, exterminated and expelled hundreds of thousands of Palestinians (arabs). There's bound to be some left :)
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"The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. They are beasts." Talmud: Baba mezia, 114b
"The Akum (non-Jew) is like a dog. Yes, the scripture teaches to honor the the dog more than the non-Jew." Ereget Raschi Erod. 22 30
Even though God created the non-Jew they are still animals in human form. It is not becoming for a Jew to be served by an animal. Therfore he will be served by animals in human form." Midrasch Talpioth, p. 255, Warsaw 1855
"A pregnant non-Jew is no better than a pregnant animal." Coschen hamischpat 405
"The souls of non-Jews come from impure sprits and are called pigs." Jalkut Rubeni gadol 12b
"It is the law to kill anyone who denies the Torah. The Christians belong to the denying ones of the Torah." Coschen hamischpat 425 Hagah 425. 5
"Every Jew, who spills the blood of the godless (non-Jews), is doing the same as making a sacrifice to God." Talmud: Bammidber raba c 21 & Jalkut 772
Then what are these?
Compared to this ( those who were insulting islam should read it) - Quoted from harunyahya.com
ISLAM'S ACCEPTANCE OF JUDAISM AND CHRISTIANITY
We are living in an era in which the world is desperately in need of peace, friendship, and solidarity. The tensions and conflicts that so defined the twentieth century continue in this new century, and innocent people all around the world continue to suffer from them.
Despite the urgent need for solidarity and cooperation, certain circles are inciting conflict, particularly conflict between the world's two greatest and deep-rooted civilizations. This issue needs to be scrutinized, as the war of civilizations that they envisage would have disastrous consequences for humanity. One of the best ways of preventing such a disaster is to strengthen the dialogue and cooperation between these civilizations. This is not a hard task, as there are no fundamental differences between Islam and the Judeo-Christian western world. To the contrary, there is much common ground between them. Considering the current situation and the nature of the world's problems, these shared values will make the cooperation necessary for solving them possible.
Today, ideological struggles continue to divide the world. However, Muslims are not at one pole and Jews and Christians are not at the opposing pole. In fact, one pole represents people who believe in God's existence and unity, and the other pole represents the unbelievers, who believe in such anti-religious ideologies as materialism and Darwinism. There is only one way to defeat the alliance of the various groups of unbelievers on an ideological level: eradicate the negative and destructive influences of anti-religious materialism and further the cause of a society dominated by morality, happiness, tranquility, security, and prosperity. This will be done by forming an alliance of all conscientious people, namely, sincere Christians, along with religious Jews and Muslims, who will come together and unite in this common cause.
There have been conflicts and disputes between members of these three religions in the past, but those were the result of the erroneous reasoning and evil motives of certain states, nations, and individuals who pursued their own economic and political gain instead of the central beliefs of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. One of the common aims of these divinely revealed religions is to ensure the happiness, security, peace, and tranquility of all people by opposing conflict.
Therefore, this dialogue and alliance will be based on the sincere believers' quest for justice, peace, and support for all people. The resulting dialogue will not be restricted to meetings and conferences, but will cement an alliance between people who advocate common values, fight for the same cause, and seek permanent solutions to common problems.
Muslims, Christians, and Jews have common principles of faith, worship, and moral values and face common dangers. Thus, the People of the Book (Christians and Jews) are called on to unite with Muslims as fellow believers opposed to atheism, anti-religiosity, and social as well as moral degeneration. All Jews, Christians, and Muslims who are sincere, conscientious, tolerant, helpful, conciliatory, reasonable, virtuous, peaceful, and fair to recognize that we believe in the same God and strive to live and extend the reach of God's morality, should spread this virtue around the world.
We Muslims love and respect Prophets Moses (pbuh) and Jesus (pbuh), know that they are loved and dear people in God's presence, and believe in all His Prophets. Furthermore, we respect Jewish and Christian beliefs, values, and traditions, for God commands us to invite the People of the Book to "unite on a common premise":
Say: "O People of the Book! Come to a proposition that is the same for us and you-that we should worship none but God, not associate any partners with Him, and not take one another as lords besides God." If they turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are Muslims." (Qur'an, 3:64)
Muslims are people who believe in the Qur'an revealed to Prophet Muhammad (may God bless him and grant him peace) as well as in the earlier divinely revealed books: the Pages of Abraham (pbuh), the Torah revealed to Moses (pbuh), the Book of Psalms revealed to David (pbuh), and the Bible revealed to Jesus (pbuh). However, over time these books were tampered with and therefore contain both accurate (e.g., belief in God, virtue, the Day of Judgment, and the rejection of idolatry), and inaccurate information. Some of the verses read:
He has sent down the Book to you with truth, confirming what was there before it. And He sent down the Torah and the Gospel. (Qur'an, 3:3-4)
We sent down the Torah containing guidance and light, and the Prophets who had submitted themselves gave judgment by it for the Jews?as did their scholars and their rabbis?by what they had been allowed to preserve of God's Book, to which they were witnesses. (Qur'an, 5:44)
God states that the People of the Book are believers as thus:
They are not all the same. There is a community among the People of the Book who are upright. They recite God's Signs throughout the night, and they prostrate. They believe in God and the Last Day, enjoin the right and forbid the wrong, and compete in doing good. They are among the righteous. You will not be denied the reward for any good thing you do. God knows those who guard against evil. (Qur'an, 3:113-15)
Among the People of the Book are some who believe in God and in what has been sent down to you and what was sent down to them, and who are humble before God. They do not sell God's Signs for a paltry price. Such people will have their reward with their Lord. And God is swift at reckoning. (Qur'an, 3:199)
Therefore, a Muslim's attitude toward the People of the Book reflects the probable existence of genuinely faithful people among them. Only God knows the hearts of people, and He reveals that some Jews and Christians have earned His good pleasure.
God reveals that He has created a way and a method for all nations. Throughout history, He has sent Prophets to people to inform them of His laws, commands, and prohibitions. Essentially, all Prophets have invited their nations to believe in and worship God and to abide by the limits
He has established for humanity. In other words, all true religions in their original state are based on the principles of not associating others with Him and of working to win His good pleasure, compassion, and Paradise. All nations are expected to follow God's will without fail and to do good deeds in order to earn His reward:
We have appointed a law and a practice for every one of you. Had God willed, He would have made you a single community, but He wanted to test you regarding what has come to you. So, compete with each other in doing good. Every one of you will return to God, and He will inform you regarding the things about which you differed. (Qur'an, 5:48)
What's your point? are you claiming because the Talmud (you previously said the Torah) contains derogatory things about gentiles (non-Jews) all Jews must believe it? I'm a Jew and I certainly don't.
You are quick to slander Israel and Jews yet you are silent about the treatment of some countries run by Fundamentalist Islam. What about the 13 year old girl stoned to death last year after she herself was raped. Is this acceptable? It's hard to take criticism from some Muslims in Australia when they are so quick to criticise Israel (sometime with good reason) yet remain silent about the countless injustices taking place in many Islamic countries around the world. Islam is a religion of peace, so why are so many Muslims including yourself GFB so hesitant to criticise immoral acts taking place in the name of Islam. So please
Shut The Fuck Up
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"And, there are Arabs in Israel - what are you smoking?"
Dude, that's cause they took their land, exterminated and expelled hundreds of thousands of Palestinians (arabs). There's bound to be some left :)
Israel has upheld a higher moral standard then all other Arab countries in the Middle East. They provide rights for Arab citizens far beyond those extended to Jews in Arab countries.
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No. The Holy Quran does not state anything that critisizes any other religion or sees muslims superior compared to others. It is just the way YOU people want to understand things. The media for example crops certain verses and uses it for evidence (yet to only fool themselves and a certain portion of readers- the ones that generally can't speak for themselves or have any other point to make. Regurgitating is the word, yes yes.
Just as any other religious text is subject to interpretation? Your interpretation may be different from mine, yes, but it doesn't mean every Muslim shares your opinion. Certainly not those calling for Israel's destruction (note: use of word) anyway.
I might note:
It is not any tom dick & harry saying this, it's in the torah! (not the original script- the bible & torah were changed according to peoples views).
Doesn't this imply it is only your interpretation of the Torah that the Jews are universally narcissistic?
Yes, Excalibur, I hear and see your endless efforts in trying to act like me. Your sense of humour is wonderful, so wonderful.
Quite frankly, I would have nightmares if I tried acting like you. You would be a great lawyer or simply somebody that doesn't have there own say-without the influence/fear of OTHERS .
If I didn't have my own say, I wouldn't be posting in this thread. And, I am not afraid of you.
That quotation was to point out the interesting use of language in your prior post.
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Higher moral standard? Are you kidding me?
Exactly how moral is it blowing up a UN school full of kids?
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Politics and sport should stay separate.
I still think this is the clincher of this issue.
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No, not in this case. If I was Arab, I wouldn't allow under any circumstances the perpetrators of the massacre of 1300 fellow Arabs in my country. No way.
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Suenoga (aka Keyboard Warrior), watch your language dude. Oh true, he won't get a warning since he's a jew.
LINK: World Economic Forum -- Turkish Prime Minister's anger . ( Israel president Peres speaks for 25 minutes,yelling in a ridiculous tone, yet Erdoğan only speaks for 12 , ).
http://tvnet.tv.tr/Default.aspx?ID=171
Mod Edit: Fixed excess spacing
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No, not in this case. If I was Arab, I wouldn't allow under any circumstances the perpetrators of the massacre of 1300 fellow Arabs in my country. No way.
Did the athlete personally commit the massacre? A person should not suffer punishment for the acts of another.
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Suenoga (aka Keyboard Warrior), watch your language dude. Oh true, he won't get a warning since he's a jew.
LINK: World Economic Forum -- Turkish Prime Minister's anger . ( Israel president Peres speaks for 25 minutes,yelling in a ridiculous tone, yet Erdoğan only speaks for 12 , ).
http://tvnet.tv.tr/Default.aspx?ID=171
Just because I disagree with your contention, that makes me a Jew?
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Higher moral standard? Are you kidding me?
Exactly how moral is it blowing up a UN school full of kids?
exactly how moral is treating women and homosexuals like second class citizens? Exactly how moral is using innocent people as human shields during war time?
http://www.vosizneias.com/26850/2009/02/03/gaza-city-un-backtracks-on-claim-that-deadly-idf-strike-hit-gaza-school/
the UN "would like to clarify that the shelling and all of the fatalities took place outside and not inside the school."
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Suenoga (aka Keyboard Warrior), watch your language dude. Oh true, he won't get a warning since he's a jew.
LINK: World Economic Forum -- Turkish Prime Minister's anger . ( Israel president Peres speaks for 25 minutes,yelling in a ridiculous tone, yet Erdoğan only speaks for 12 , ).
http://tvnet.tv.tr/Default.aspx?ID=171
Mod Edit: Fixed excess spacing
Yep it's fucking great being rich and owning the media.
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No, not in this case. If I was Arab, I wouldn't allow under any circumstances the perpetrators of the massacre of 1300 fellow Arabs in my country. No way.
Does that mean Americans shouldn't allow any Pakistanis their country because they perpetrated the massacre of 3000 Americans on September 11? Think about what your saying. Muslims have been tragic victims of this type of "collective blame" since the rise of Islamo fundamentalism in the world. You should know how destructive and ridiculous your comment is.
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Higher moral standard? Are you kidding me?
Exactly how moral is it blowing up a UN school full of kids?
exactly how moral is treating women and homosexuals like second class citizens? Exactly how moral is using innocent people as human shields during war time?
http://www.vosizneias.com/26850/2009/02/03/gaza-city-un-backtracks-on-claim-that-deadly-idf-strike-hit-gaza-school/
the UN "would like to clarify that the shelling and all of the fatalities took place outside and not inside the school."
Get your facts right. Stop speaking words from your ...
http://us1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/3461/THE_EMINENCE_ISLAM_ATTACHES_TO_WOMEN_
Heaven Lies Under the Feet of Our Mother
General Meaning--Whoever intends to enter Heaven should respect and dignify his parents, especially his mother. Our mother has carried and given birth to us. Furthermore, her du'a (prayer) will be granted by Allah. Thus, we must serve her well
Women & Men are equal .
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Higher moral standard? Are you kidding me?
Exactly how moral is it blowing up a UN school full of kids?
exactly how moral is treating women and homosexuals like second class citizens? Exactly how moral is using innocent people as human shields during war time?
http://www.vosizneias.com/26850/2009/02/03/gaza-city-un-backtracks-on-claim-that-deadly-idf-strike-hit-gaza-school/
the UN "would like to clarify that the shelling and all of the fatalities took place outside and not inside the school."
Get your facts right. Stop speaking words from your ...
http://us1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/3461/THE_EMINENCE_ISLAM_ATTACHES_TO_WOMEN_
Heaven Lies Under the Feet of Our Mother
General Meaning--Whoever intends to enter Heaven should respect and dignify his parents, especially his mother. Our mother has carried and given birth to us. Furthermore, her du'a (prayer) will be granted by Allah. Thus, we must serve her well
Women & Men are equal .
So what happened in Afghanistan?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban_treatment_of_women
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Higher moral standard? Are you kidding me?
Exactly how moral is it blowing up a UN school full of kids?
exactly how moral is treating women and homosexuals like second class citizens? Exactly how moral is using innocent people as human shields during war time?
http://www.vosizneias.com/26850/2009/02/03/gaza-city-un-backtracks-on-claim-that-deadly-idf-strike-hit-gaza-school/
the UN "would like to clarify that the shelling and all of the fatalities took place outside and not inside the school."
Get your facts right. Stop speaking words from your ...
http://us1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/3461/THE_EMINENCE_ISLAM_ATTACHES_TO_WOMEN_
Heaven Lies Under the Feet of Our Mother
General Meaning--Whoever intends to enter Heaven should respect and dignify his parents, especially his mother. Our mother has carried and given birth to us. Furthermore, her du'a (prayer) will be granted by Allah. Thus, we must serve her well
Women & Men are equal .
LOL ok.
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gDlw7zYhGCUujV64GSv-BEJdMkFg
The Koran may give women and men eqal rights. However, women and men are certainly not equal in many Islamic counties. I don't say these things out of hate for Muslims. I say it out of support for equal rights in all places around the world.
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Higher moral standard? Are you kidding me?
Exactly how moral is it blowing up a UN school full of kids?
exactly how moral is treating women and homosexuals like second class citizens? Exactly how moral is using innocent people as human shields during war time?
http://www.vosizneias.com/26850/2009/02/03/gaza-city-un-backtracks-on-claim-that-deadly-idf-strike-hit-gaza-school/
the UN "would like to clarify that the shelling and all of the fatalities took place outside and not inside the school."
Get your facts right. Stop speaking words from your ...
http://us1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/3461/THE_EMINENCE_ISLAM_ATTACHES_TO_WOMEN_
Heaven Lies Under the Feet of Our Mother
General Meaning--Whoever intends to enter Heaven should respect and dignify his parents, especially his mother. Our mother has carried and given birth to us. Furthermore, her du'a (prayer) will be granted by Allah. Thus, we must serve her well
Women & Men are equal .
So what happened in Afghanistan?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban_treatment_of_women
The Taliban is just a group full of nonsense.
There are currently 1.2 billion muslims which make up 22% of the worlds population. Do not judge 1.2 billion people with 10% of Afghanistans population that are doing the wrong thing.
Islam is growing about 2.9% per year. This is faster than the total world population which increases about 2.3% annually. It attracts a progressively larger percentage of the world's population.
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No, not in this case. If I was Arab, I wouldn't allow under any circumstances the perpetrators of the massacre of 1300 fellow Arabs in my country. No way.
Does that mean Americans shouldn't allow any Pakistanis their country because they perpetrated the massacre of 3000 Americans on September 11? Think about what your saying. Muslims have been tragic victims of this type of "collective blame" since the rise of Islamo fundamentalism in the world. You should know how destructive and ridiculous your comment is.
Umm...the United States DOES refuse Visas to people with Middle-Eastern background, and in large numbers.
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Higher moral standard? Are you kidding me?
Exactly how moral is it blowing up a UN school full of kids?
exactly how moral is treating women and homosexuals like second class citizens? Exactly how moral is using innocent people as human shields during war time?
http://www.vosizneias.com/26850/2009/02/03/gaza-city-un-backtracks-on-claim-that-deadly-idf-strike-hit-gaza-school/
the UN "would like to clarify that the shelling and all of the fatalities took place outside and not inside the school."
Get your facts right. Stop speaking words from your ...
http://us1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/3461/THE_EMINENCE_ISLAM_ATTACHES_TO_WOMEN_
Heaven Lies Under the Feet of Our Mother
General Meaning--Whoever intends to enter Heaven should respect and dignify his parents, especially his mother. Our mother has carried and given birth to us. Furthermore, her du'a (prayer) will be granted by Allah. Thus, we must serve her well
Women & Men are equal .
So what happened in Afghanistan?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban_treatment_of_women
The Taliban is just a group full of nonsense.
There are currently 1.2 billion muslims which make up 22% of the worlds population. Do not judge 1.2 billion people with 10% of Afghanistans population that are doing the wrong thing.
fucking idiot. Who was judging Muslims by the actions of a large minority within Islam? I wasn't, Excal wasn't. You on the other hand continue to perpetuate your vile racism. Do not play the victim when you have been nothing but an anti-semetic bigot throughout this entire post.
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Oh :D, so now the little keyboard warrior switches onto using course language because he can't prove anything :D
I'm not gonna bother and descend to your level. You pathetic bigot.
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Does that mean Americans shouldn't allow any Pakistanis their country because they perpetrated the massacre of 3000 Americans on September 11? Think about what your saying. Muslims have been tragic victims of this type of "collective blame" since the rise of Islamo fundamentalism in the world. You should know how destructive and ridiculous your comment is.
[/quote]
Umm...the United States DOES refuse Visas to people with Middle-Eastern background, and in large numbers.
[/quote]
Fact: Individuals from Muslim and/or Arab countries can visit Israel.
Fact: An Israeli can not visit many Muslim and/or Arab country.
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Oh :D, so now the little keyboard warrior switches onto using course language because he can't prove anything :D
I'm not gonna bother and descend to your level. You pathetic bigot.
I'll cry myself to sleep tonight.
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Does that mean Americans shouldn't allow any Pakistanis their country because they perpetrated the massacre of 3000 Americans on September 11? Think about what your saying. Muslims have been tragic victims of this type of "collective blame" since the rise of Islamo fundamentalism in the world. You should know how destructive and ridiculous your comment is.
Umm...the United States DOES refuse Visas to people with Middle-Eastern background, and in large numbers.
[/quote]
Fact: Individuals from Muslim and/or Arab countries can visit Israel.
Fact: An Israeli can not visit many Muslim and/or Arab country.
[/quote]
LOLmao. Is this why I was speaking to an Israeli in Istanbul?
How can you forget the tolerance the Ottoman Empire showed to you?. Oh well it's life I guess. You feed the crow, it comes and pokes your eye.
Suenoga, I suggest you stop. As you speak, you are falling deeper & deeper into a dry well.
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Does that mean Americans shouldn't allow any Pakistanis their country because they perpetrated the massacre of 3000 Americans on September 11? Think about what your saying. Muslims have been tragic victims of this type of "collective blame" since the rise of Islamo fundamentalism in the world. You should know how destructive and ridiculous your comment is.
Umm...the United States DOES refuse Visas to people with Middle-Eastern background, and in large numbers.
Fact: Individuals from Muslim and/or Arab countries can visit Israel.
Fact: An Israeli can not visit many Muslim and/or Arab country.
[/quote]
LOLmao. Is this why I was speaking to an Israeli in Istanbul?
How can you forget the tolerance the Ottoman Empire showed to you?. Oh well it's life I guess. You feed the crow, it comes and pokes your eye.
[/quote]
I did not say all Muslim countries, I said many.
I wish the Ottoman Empire showed the same "tolerance" towards the Armenians.
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DUDE Israeil was investigated and confirmed to have violated MULTIPLE counts of the Geneva Convention. They bombed a school full of KIDS, used WHITE PHOSPHORUS in warfare. Israeils are sadistic bastards, end of story.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5521925.ece
http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3660668,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/09/gaza-palestinians-israel-evacuees-zeitoun
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-obama
You CAN'T defend this. This is OBJECTIVE information, not some Jewish propaganda.
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DUDE Israeil was investigated and confirmed to have violated MULTIPLE counts of the Geneva Convention. They bombed a school full of KIDS, used WHITE PHOSPHORUS in warfare. Israeils are sadistic bastards, end of story.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5521925.ece
http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3660668,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/09/gaza-palestinians-israel-evacuees-zeitoun
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-obama
You CAN'T defend this. This is OBJECTIVE information, not some Jewish propaganda.
Good sources. Not biased like the link he sent (from an Israeli newspaper, LOL)
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DUDE Israeil was investigated and confirmed to have violated MULTIPLE counts of the Geneva Convention. They bombed a school full of KIDS, used WHITE PHOSPHORUS in warfare. Israeils are sadistic bastards, end of story.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5521925.ece
http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3660668,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/09/gaza-palestinians-israel-evacuees-zeitoun
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-obama
You CAN'T defend this. This is OBJECTIVE information, not some Jewish propaganda.
The UN retracted their statements over the bombing of the UN school. However, their are ongoing questions and unfinished inquiries into Israel's handling of the war in Gaza. I note, your silence over any of the war crimes committed by Hamas or Hezbollah since they were set up.
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DUDE Israeil was investigated and confirmed to have violated MULTIPLE counts of the Geneva Convention. They bombed a school full of KIDS, used WHITE PHOSPHORUS in warfare. Israeils are sadistic bastards, end of story.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5521925.ece
http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3660668,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/09/gaza-palestinians-israel-evacuees-zeitoun
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-obama
You CAN'T defend this. This is OBJECTIVE information, not some Jewish propaganda.
Good sources. Not biased like the link he sent (from an Israeli newspaper, LOL)
I note your silence on the countless amount of biased media sources across the Arab and Muslims world. For anyone that's reading this, (I doubt you will listen GFB) Haaretz is a notoriously left-wing newspaper that is at times very critical of the Israeli governments actions.
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If Israel were an individual, it'll be serving a life sentence LOL
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If Israel were an individual, it'll be serving a life sentence LOL
And if you thought like an individual, you would never have said this.
I pity you deeply for the brainwashing you have suffered. You and gfb.
I cannot hate you. Despite all the vile racism dished out in this thread, I must constantly be reminded that this is after a lifetime of "Israel and the jews are terrible people" being drilled into your upbringing.
I only hope you allow your own children the freedom to think, that they may move on from mindless bigotry and xenophobia.
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My intention was not to hate, but merely condemn Israels atrocities to humanity. The Western media, or as suenoga conveniently puts it, "jewish media" loves to depict Israeil as victims when in fact they are the oppressors.
Sorry my friend, but you are the one that is "brainwashed".
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Guys, I think this is getting FAR FAR too personal, with the ad hominems flying everywhere.
Try not accusing each other of being "brainwashed" and we may actually get a good debate going. At this rate, I'd recommend this thread be locked.
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Glockmeister speaks wisely.
Won't lock it yet, but I'll split it, since like 90% of VN threads it's gone off topic. >_<
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My intention was not to hate, but merely condemn Israels atrocities to humanity. The Western media, or as suenoga conveniently puts it, "jewish media" loves to depict Israeil as victims when in fact they are the oppressors.
Sorry my friend, but you are the one that is "brainwashed".
The simple fact that you believe in the "jews control the media" conspiracy theory speaks volumes of your brainwashing.
Do you think the contents of the Protocols of the Elder Zion are true?
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My intention was not to hate, but merely condemn Israels atrocities to humanity. The Western media, or as suenoga conveniently puts it, "jewish media" loves to depict Israeil as victims when in fact they are the oppressors.
Sorry my friend, but you are the one that is "brainwashed".
And ultimately, there is no condemnation from you when Pakistan signs a deal with the Taliban allowing it to continue chopping off people's hands for stealing loaves of bread, and stoning pregnant 13 year old women after being raped. Where are your posts of outrage when the various dictators of almost EVERY muslim country hoard wealth for themselves and people in power while the vast majority of the muslim populace in those countries, YOUR OWN KIN, live in abject, 3rd-world poverty.
Where are your cries of condemnation for those crimes against humanity?
You are vastly hypocritical in your slander of Israel, to the point where you grasp at straws attempting to disparage Israel using quotes from the Torah, when most Israeli Jews are in fact secular.
You can pretend you are anti-Israel all you want, the fact of the matter is, you are an unashamed anti-semitic who will selectively condemn only when the topic is Israel or Judaism and never when the topic is Islam or Islamic countries.
Think about that.
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Dude, those was not my thoughts, I was directly quoting from a Jewish person.
"Yep it's fucking great being rich and owning the media." - suenoda
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Why the hell are we talking about Pakistan? This is not Islam vs Judaism, like your making it out to be. And wrong again, I'm not Arab, nor from a Muslim country.
This is a discussion about Israel and their recent onslaught and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian population.
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Yes they are, you said, "suenoga conveniently puts it".
...
Meaning you agree with that statement.
Suenoga was mocking you. And it worked. Lol.
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ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian population.
That is an allegation of genocide. And by all accounts slander, which is against the code of conduct for this forum. You will cease to make these accusations immediately. Unless you can back it up with empirical evidence that Israel's intention was to wipe out all Palestinian people (I.E. you'd need to show that they attacked the West Bank during the Gaza offensive, which actually has more Palestinians than Gaza by a factor of 2:1 or a statement from a top-ranking Israeli official that they wish to "wipe out Palestine" and not Hamas)
Without any tangible evidence this is hatespeech that I simply will not tolerate on this forum.
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I'm entitled to my own opinion, and these are mine.
Israels recent onslaught and their killing of civilians over militants to a 3:1 ratio, mostly children under 13, is enough evidence for me. This is not something new, this genocide begun 60 years ago when Israel was "established"(at the expense of whom I wonder, perhaps the hundreds of thousands of refugees in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria?..hmm).
I'm gonna stop posting here, clearly your Jewish and personally offended. I'm being mistaken as anti-sematic where in fact it is only the actions of the Israeli government/Zionists that I am against.
Peace to all.
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I'm entitled to my own opinion, and these are mine.
Israels recent onslaught and their killing of civilians over militants to a 3:1 ratio, mostly children under 13, is enough evidence for me. This is not something new, this genocide begun 60 years ago when Israel was established(at the expense of whom I wonder).
I'm gonna stop posting here, clearly your Jewish and personally offended. I'm being mistaken as anti-sematic where in fact it is only the actions of the Israeli government/Zionists that I am against.
Peace to all.
When that opinion is hatespeech, you are compelled to back it up. You have not done so. Therefore you were asked to stop it. And you have. Good day :)
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Higher moral standard? Are you kidding me?
Exactly how moral is it blowing up a UN school full of kids?
exactly how moral is treating women and homosexuals like second class citizens? Exactly how moral is using innocent people as human shields during war time?
http://www.vosizneias.com/26850/2009/02/03/gaza-city-un-backtracks-on-claim-that-deadly-idf-strike-hit-gaza-school/
the UN "would like to clarify that the shelling and all of the fatalities took place outside and not inside the school."
Get your facts right. Stop speaking words from your ...
http://us1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/3461/THE_EMINENCE_ISLAM_ATTACHES_TO_WOMEN_
Heaven Lies Under the Feet of Our Mother
General Meaning--Whoever intends to enter Heaven should respect and dignify his parents, especially his mother. Our mother has carried and given birth to us. Furthermore, her du'a (prayer) will be granted by Allah. Thus, we must serve her well
Women & Men are equal .
So what happened in Afghanistan?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban_treatment_of_women
The Taliban is just a group full of nonsense.
There are currently 1.2 billion muslims which make up 22% of the worlds population. Do not judge 1.2 billion people with 10% of Afghanistans population that are doing the wrong thing.
Islam is growing about 2.9% per year. This is faster than the total world population which increases about 2.3% annually. It attracts a progressively larger percentage of the world's population.
Ok, finally some sounds of reason coming from your mouth.
However, you've also just said that UAE is correct in judging one person (the athlete) because of her ancestry. Hypocritical much?
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West Bank land for Jewish settlers
February 17, 2009
THE Israeli Civil Administration, which runs the country's occupation of the West Bank, has declared 170 hectares in the occupied territory "state land", paving the way for a new Jewish settlement.
There are plans to build 2500 houses on the land, north of the Israeli settlement of Efrat.
Under the two-state solution agreed to by Israel at the 2007 Middle East peace conference in Annapolis, the West Bank and Gaza will form a Palestinian state. The international community considers all Israeli settlements beyond the pre-1967 war border to be illegal, but about 285,000 Jewish Israelis now live in more than 100 settlements spread across the West Bank, and a further 200,000 Jewish settlers live in East Jerusalem (above).
In 2008, 1518 new structures were built in the West Bank. About 15,000 new settlers moved into the West Bank in 2008.
JASON KOUTSOUKIS
hmmm.... israel again expanding their population and settlement and control, demolishing more palestinian homes and land..................hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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The settler fanatics disgust me. They're the reason Rabin was murdered. They're the other side of the coin to Hamas, the extremist Israeli fringe impeding peace.
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Dude, those was not my thoughts, I was directly quoting from a Jewish person.
"Yep it's fucking great being rich and owning the media." - suenoda
oh my, he thought I was serious.
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I'm still waiting for gfb to respond to my allegation of hypocrisy.
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If Israel were an individual, it'll be serving a life sentence LOL
And if you thought like an individual, you would never have said this.
I pity you deeply for the brainwashing you have suffered. You and gfb.
I cannot hate you. Despite all the vile racism dished out in this thread, I must constantly be reminded that this is after a lifetime of "Israel and the jews are terrible people" being drilled into your upbringing.
I only hope you allow your own children the freedom to think, that they may move on from mindless bigotry and xenophobia.
LOL. Mate, if that's the case, jews were raised the same way. Brainwashed by there parents, not only by parents, definitely by individuals at jewish schools.
Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, we must be great brainwashers hey, lmao.
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(http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp281/redondo01/Filistin-toprak-kaybi.jpg)
A picture can tell a thousand words. It speaks for itself.
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If Israel were an individual, it'll be serving a life sentence LOL
And if you thought like an individual, you would never have said this.
I pity you deeply for the brainwashing you have suffered. You and gfb.
I cannot hate you. Despite all the vile racism dished out in this thread, I must constantly be reminded that this is after a lifetime of "Israel and the jews are terrible people" being drilled into your upbringing.
I only hope you allow your own children the freedom to think, that they may move on from mindless bigotry and xenophobia.
LOL. Mate, if that's the case, jews were raised the same way. Brainwashed by there parents, not only by parents, definitely by individuals at jewish schools.
Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, we must be great brainwashers hey, lmao.
[logical fallacy]
Scientology claims its the fastest growing religion in the world, they must be pretty good brainwashers too, lmao
[/logical fallacy]
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Higher moral standard? Are you kidding me?
Exactly how moral is it blowing up a UN school full of kids?
exactly how moral is treating women and homosexuals like second class citizens? Exactly how moral is using innocent people as human shields during war time?
http://www.vosizneias.com/26850/2009/02/03/gaza-city-un-backtracks-on-claim-that-deadly-idf-strike-hit-gaza-school/
the UN "would like to clarify that the shelling and all of the fatalities took place outside and not inside the school."
Get your facts right. Stop speaking words from your ...
http://us1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/3461/THE_EMINENCE_ISLAM_ATTACHES_TO_WOMEN_
Heaven Lies Under the Feet of Our Mother
General Meaning--Whoever intends to enter Heaven should respect and dignify his parents, especially his mother. Our mother has carried and given birth to us. Furthermore, her du'a (prayer) will be granted by Allah. Thus, we must serve her well
Women & Men are equal .
So what happened in Afghanistan?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban_treatment_of_women
The Taliban is just a group full of nonsense.
There are currently 1.2 billion muslims which make up 22% of the worlds population. Do not judge 1.2 billion people with 10% of Afghanistans population that are doing the wrong thing.
Islam is growing about 2.9% per year. This is faster than the total world population which increases about 2.3% annually. It attracts a progressively larger percentage of the world's population.
Ok, finally some sounds of reason coming from your mouth.
However, you've also just said that UAE is correct in judging one person (the athlete) because of her ancestry. Hypocritical much?
Maybe I should rephrase - we should not judge all of Islam based on the atrocities committed against women by a group of them (the Taliban) yet it is perfectly fine for the UAE to judge Shahar Peer, an individual Israeli, based on the actions of a group of them (the Israeli government)?
I don't quite follow your logic gfb.
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(http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp281/redondo01/Filistin-toprak-kaybi.jpg)
A picture can tell a thousand words. It speaks for itself.
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(http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp281/redondo01/Filistin-toprak-kaybi.jpg)
A picture can tell a thousand words. It speaks for itself.
that's cute. Still a proud Zionist though.
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(http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp281/redondo01/Filistin-toprak-kaybi.jpg)
A picture can tell a thousand words. It speaks for itself.
I still don't get how it's relevant to what I'm saying, in that you're setting double standards?
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I believe the fact that he still hasn't addressed your point, Excalibur, is because it's a very valid one and maybe if he doesn't reply to it it'll go away and he can go on spouting his logical fallacies.
Just my theory ;)
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I believe the fact that he still hasn't addressed your point, Excalibur, is because it's a very valid one and maybe if he doesn't reply to it it'll go away and he can go on spouting his logical fallacies.
Just my theory ;)
Yeah, I pretty much caught on to that. And, don't you worry, I'll make sure the point gets driven home eventually.
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Higher moral standard? Are you kidding me?
Exactly how moral is it blowing up a UN school full of kids?
exactly how moral is treating women and homosexuals like second class citizens? Exactly how moral is using innocent people as human shields during war time?
http://www.vosizneias.com/26850/2009/02/03/gaza-city-un-backtracks-on-claim-that-deadly-idf-strike-hit-gaza-school/
the UN "would like to clarify that the shelling and all of the fatalities took place outside and not inside the school."
Get your facts right. Stop speaking words from your ...
http://us1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/3461/THE_EMINENCE_ISLAM_ATTACHES_TO_WOMEN_
Heaven Lies Under the Feet of Our Mother
General Meaning--Whoever intends to enter Heaven should respect and dignify his parents, especially his mother. Our mother has carried and given birth to us. Furthermore, her du'a (prayer) will be granted by Allah. Thus, we must serve her well
Women & Men are equal .
So what happened in Afghanistan?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban_treatment_of_women
The Taliban is just a group full of nonsense.
There are currently 1.2 billion muslims which make up 22% of the worlds population. Do not judge 1.2 billion people with 10% of Afghanistans population that are doing the wrong thing.
Islam is growing about 2.9% per year. This is faster than the total world population which increases about 2.3% annually. It attracts a progressively larger percentage of the world's population.
Ok, finally some sounds of reason coming from your mouth.
However, you've also just said that UAE is correct in judging one person (the athlete) because of her ancestry. Hypocritical much?
Maybe I should rephrase - we should not judge all of Islam based on the atrocities committed against women by a group of them (the Taliban) yet it is perfectly fine for the UAE to judge Shahar Peer, an individual Israeli, based on the actions of a group of them (the Israeli government)?
I don't quite follow your logic gfb.
I do not have anything against Israeli individuals, but I have every right to insult the current government. I am with the powerless and poor Palestinians and will always be. The Israeli government does not know who they are messing with, if the big boys get involved, oh my :)..
Ye anyway, that is the attitude the UAE holds. It is wrong. I am Turkish, a descendant of the almighty Ottoman Empire. If you bother to do some research look into the attitude the ottomans(turks) hold against jews and christians, you will see that we are a nation that everybody should take example of.
http://www.harunyahya.com/justice4.php
In many places in Europe, Jews were suffering persecution at the hands of their Christian counterparts. The tolerance displayed by the Ottomans was welcomed by the immigrants. The Ottoman economic mind was closely related to the basic concepts of state and society in the Middle East in which the ultimate goal of a state was consolidation and extension of the ruler's power, and the way to reach it was to get rich resources of revenues by making the productive classes prosperous.[29] The ultimate aim was to increase the state revenues as much as possible without damaging the prosperity of subjects to prevent the emergence of social disorder and to keep the traditional organization of the society intact.
for more http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire
EDIT: 2 impatient kids think I'm a pc bot- they want answers straight away. Fortunately I'm not a lifeless pc junky, thank god. Karma whores.
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^^^
The Ottoman Empire invaded and oppressed Balkan nations for centuries.
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^^^
The Ottoman Empire invaded and oppressed Balkan nations for centuries.
LMFAO. Croat. Can't expect a different approach. The topic is about Muslims and Jews here, not Yugoslavia xD.
The Ottomans were the greatest empire of that era, so this is normal. Power & Faith combined can get you many things.
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The Ottoman empire deliberately killed millions of Armenians in an attempt to wipe them out. I think it's called genocide.
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The Ottoman empire deliberately killed millions of Armenians in an attempt to wipe them out. I think it's called genocide.
Nothing more then a masonic plot- we see masonic plots nowadays also..
http://us1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/12521/ARMENIA,_ARM_TV,_SEPTEMBER_10TH_2008
So this isn't genocide?
(http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp281/redondo01/Filistin-toprak-kaybi.jpg)
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Rofl, everything is a conspiracy with you :')
Do you realise how ludicrous you sound? Seriously.
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Well, were the Taliban voted into power? No. They have simply attained a level of power a) through US weapons and training and b) fighting and force of arms. The difference is that the majority of Israelis voted for right wing parties, if they insist on destroying or degrading Palestine then.... I agree in the principle that you cannot judge a nation on the basis of actions of a select few, but in the case of Israel, clearly the crowd has spoken. She should probably be allowed to play, but i think that this sort of action is more symbolic in suggesting that countries will not bow down to Israel, and their aggressive behaviour.
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oh thanks for the link. Now I know that thousands of historians and academics around the world must be wrong and that the Turks had nothing to do with the deaths of the Armenians. You are truly a tool.
GFB's hate list
- Jews (especially Israeli's but he doesn't discriminate :) )
- Croatians
- Armenians (not verified but definitely true)
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Rofl, everything is a conspiracy with you :')
Do you realise how ludicrous you sound? Seriously.
:). What's wrong?. No answer to the references?
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still going eh
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Well, were the Taliban voted into power? No. They have simply attained a level of power a) through US weapons and training and b) fighting and force of arms. The difference is that the majority of Israelis voted for right wing parties, if they insist on destroying or degrading Palestine then.... I agree in the principle that you cannot judge a nation on the basis of actions of a select few, but in the case of Israel, clearly the crowd has spoken. She should probably be allowed to play, but i think that this sort of action is more symbolic in suggesting that countries will not bow down to Israel, and their aggressive behaviour.
and the Palestinians voting Hamas into power?. A terrorist organisation. If we use your logic what does it say about
them? Are you aware that by a large majority Israeli's PM's have been from the left. In fact, in the elections just last week a centrist party Kadimah received the most seats.
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Rofl, everything is a conspiracy with you :')
Do you realise how ludicrous you sound? Seriously.
:). What's wrong?. No answer to the references?
Rofl, everything is a conspiracy with you :')
Do you realise how ludicrous you sound? Seriously.
:). What's wrong?. No answer to the references?
why don't you answer the thousands of historians and academics who claim the deaths of the Armenians was a deliberate and targeted killing? Genocide.
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Rofl, everything is a conspiracy with you :')
Do you realise how ludicrous you sound? Seriously.
:). What's wrong?. No answer to the references?
Rofl, everything is a conspiracy with you :')
Do you realise how ludicrous you sound? Seriously.
:). What's wrong?. No answer to the references?
why don't you answer the thousands of historians and academics who claim the deaths of the Armenians was a deliberate and targeted killing?. Genocide.
List the "thousands" of historians and academics. Go on list them :D, you have made a useless point.
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Let's dissect.
I do not have anything against Israeli individuals, but I have every right to insult the current government.
Yet you seemed willing to support such an act by the UAE government (and decry any perceptions created of Muslims by the Taliban).
I am with the powerless and poor Palestinians and will always be.
Irrelevant.
The Israeli government does not know who they are messing with, if the big boys get involved, oh my :)..
Irrelevant.
Ye anyway, that is the attitude the UAE holds. It is wrong.
Thankyou for finally showing some sense of rationality. Why did you not state this earlier, given that this was what the thread was (originally) about.
I am Turkish, a descendant of the almighty Ottoman Empire. If you bother to do some research look into the attitude the ottomans(turks) hold against jews and christians, you will see that we are a nation that everybody should take example of.
Way off-topic.
EDIT: 2 impatient kids think I'm a pc bot- they want answers straight away. Fortunately I'm not a lifeless pc junky, thank god. Karma whores.
You know, I'll probably make a nice bundle of cash from computers...so this is like water off a duck's back. Also, you'd selectively chose to reply to other posts in the thread, but not this particular arc which really begged the question.
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from what i can see, gfb is too concerned about the numbers and statistics of how many followers there are of a certain religion rather than the krux of the issue between isreal and palestein.
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The Ottoman empire deliberately killed millions of Armenians in an attempt to wipe them out. I think it's called genocide.
Nothing more then a masonic plot- we see masonic plots nowadays also..
http://us1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/12521/ARMENIA,_ARM_TV,_SEPTEMBER_10TH_2008
So this isn't genocide?
(http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp281/redondo01/Filistin-toprak-kaybi.jpg)
How the hell did you bring the stonemasons into this?
I mean, fuck, it was seriously the UFOs who bombed Palestine, not Israel!
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from what i can see, gfb is too concerned about the numbers and statistics of how many followers there are of a certain religion rather than the krux of the issue between isreal and palestein.
You know what, even with all the spelling errors, you're right. gfb is really proving himself to be the master of irrelevance.
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Turkish Academics To Apologize For Armenian Genocide
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/15/turkish-academics-to-apol_n_151060.html?show_comment_id=18868418
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still going eh
You know how these VN threads go...start a thread with the word 'Jew' in it and it's 99.9% guaranteed to explode*
*warranty limited to $1,000,000 Zimbabwean old dollars.
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Well, were the Taliban voted into power? No. They have simply attained a level of power a) through US weapons and training and b) fighting and force of arms. The difference is that the majority of Israelis voted for right wing parties, if they insist on destroying or degrading Palestine then.... I agree in the principle that you cannot judge a nation on the basis of actions of a select few, but in the case of Israel, clearly the crowd has spoken. She should probably be allowed to play, but i think that this sort of action is more symbolic in suggesting that countries will not bow down to Israel, and their aggressive behaviour.
and the Palestinians voting Hamas into power?. A terrorist organisation. If we use your logic what does it say about
them? Are you aware that by a large majority Israeli's PM's have been from the left. In fact, in the elections just last week a centrist party Kadimah received the most seats.
Do not even dare to involve my parents into this!!!!. negative karmaring and including my parents into this-this just proves how sad you are, mate!. No matter what religion or race a person is from, I never involve parents into arguments (you were insulting my parents) - no matter how angry I get. I love my own parents and expect respect. Bastard.
I'll be your nightmare in the cyber world.
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Well, were the Taliban voted into power? No. They have simply attained a level of power a) through US weapons and training and b) fighting and force of arms. The difference is that the majority of Israelis voted for right wing parties, if they insist on destroying or degrading Palestine then.... I agree in the principle that you cannot judge a nation on the basis of actions of a select few, but in the case of Israel, clearly the crowd has spoken. She should probably be allowed to play, but i think that this sort of action is more symbolic in suggesting that countries will not bow down to Israel, and their aggressive behaviour.
and the Palestinians voting Hamas into power?. A terrorist organisation. If we use your logic what does it say about
them? Are you aware that by a large majority Israeli's PM's have been from the left. In fact, in the elections just last week a centrist party Kadimah received the most seats.
Do not even dare to involve my parents into this!!!!. negative karmaring and including my parents into this-this just proves how sad you are, mate!. No matter what religion or race a person is from, I never involve parents into arguments (you were insulting my parents) - no matter how angry I get. I love my own parents and expect respect. Bastard.
...when did he mention your parents?
EDIT - found it. To be frank, what he's said is nothing compared to your reactions in this thread. And, to some degree, all our parents 'brainwash' their children with their moral and ethical standards inter alia - it's called education.
However, as a community service announcement, I would strongly suggest that everyone refrain from referencing other members' families in any debate - while I can appreciate that heated debates such as this can evoke a lot of emotions, I will be drawing the line here.
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Sigh...suenoga, it really doesn't matter that Kadima have more seats then Likud, because no one is going to get a single party majority. Right-wing parties received 65 seats compared to 55 from the left/central, and as such it is extremely probable that they will get first choice at creating a coalition. However, ill forgive your ignorance, on the matter of Hamas, simply because the US defines them as a terrorist organisation, they are terrorists? I am not saying that i agree with their methods, but they have been pro-active in building infrastructure and providing aid. Why would these so called "terrorists" be in favour of extending the peace treaty? Surely, this would take away from their goal of destabilizing Israel. If you look back over the past 6 months, each time it has been Israel to strike the first blow. I can assure you that i too would condemn Palestine if they launched an inhumane blockade of aid and necessities on Israel, as well as killing 288 civilians.
lulz... good thread
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Well, were the Taliban voted into power? No. They have simply attained a level of power a) through US weapons and training and b) fighting and force of arms. The difference is that the majority of Israelis voted for right wing parties, if they insist on destroying or degrading Palestine then.... I agree in the principle that you cannot judge a nation on the basis of actions of a select few, but in the case of Israel, clearly the crowd has spoken. She should probably be allowed to play, but i think that this sort of action is more symbolic in suggesting that countries will not bow down to Israel, and their aggressive behaviour.
and the Palestinians voting Hamas into power?. A terrorist organisation. If we use your logic what does it say about
them? Are you aware that by a large majority Israeli's PM's have been from the left. In fact, in the elections just last week a centrist party Kadimah received the most seats.
Do not even dare to involve my parents into this!!!!. negative karmaring and including my parents into this-this just proves how sad you are, mate!. No matter what religion or race a person is from, I never involve parents into arguments (you were insulting my parents) - no matter how angry I get. I love my own parents and expect respect. Bastard.
...when did he mention your parents?
that's what i want to know?
from what i can see, gfb is too concerned about the numbers and statistics of how many followers there are of a certain religion rather than the krux of the issue between isreal and palestein.
You know what, even with all the spelling errors, you're right. gfb is really proving himself to be the master of irrelevance.
lol ye i was eating while typing..
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Check the karma.
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Wow, seems like everyone is Jewish on this board.
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The Ottoman empire deliberately killed millions of Armenians in an attempt to wipe them out. I think it's called genocide.
Nothing more then a masonic plot- we see masonic plots nowadays also..
http://us1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/12521/ARMENIA,_ARM_TV,_SEPTEMBER_10TH_2008
So this isn't genocide?
(http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp281/redondo01/Filistin-toprak-kaybi.jpg)
How the hell did you bring the stonemasons into this?
I mean, fuck, it was seriously the UFOs who bombed Palestine, not Israel!
All we need now is someone to segue to Hitler and we can be done with this thread. And it should be easy.
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Wow, seems like everyone is Jewish on this board.
Nope, I'm a Catholic.
And you know, I really do not like prejudiced (and incorrect) assumptions.
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Sigh...suenoga, it really doesn't matter that Kadima have more seats then Likud, because no one is going to get a single party majority. Right-wing parties received 65 seats compared to 55 from the left/central, and as such it is extremely probable that they will get first choice at creating a coalition. However, ill forgive your ignorance, on the matter of Hamas, simply because the US defines them as a terrorist organisation, they are terrorists? I am not saying that i agree with their methods, but they have been pro-active in building infrastructure and providing aid. Why would these so called "terrorists" be in favour of extending the peace treaty? Surely, this would take away from their goal of destabilizing Israel. If you look back over the past 6 months, each time it has been Israel to strike the first blow. I can assure you that i too would condemn Palestine if they launched an inhumane blockade of aid and necessities on Israel, as well as killing 288 civilians.
I'll excuse your ignorance. It is in Hamas's constitution to destroy Israel. They have carried out several suicide bombings and sent hundreds of rockets at Israeli civilians. Therefore, I define them as a terrorist organisation and worse then Likud. I respect you for actually knowing about Israeli's current affairs though.
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Not religious, but i have a deep moral conviction that what Israel is doing is both criminal and inhumane.
Yes i know it is, and yes it is rather disturbing. I'm not going to advocate that what Hamas is doing is right, but although they have that in their charter, they aren't attempting to wipe Israel off the face of the planet, which you might interpret Israel as doing. The rockets are rather tin pot, and I'm sure you'll agree with me that the death tolls are rather disproportionate. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that, while Hamas may not be right, what Israel is doing is terribly, terribly wrong.
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Rofl, everything is a conspiracy with you :')
Do you realise how ludicrous you sound? Seriously.
:). What's wrong?. No answer to the references?
And here's a section of my posting I like to call "REALLY?!?" with enwiabe. (Idea shamelessly stolen from SNL, imagine the following text being read by Seth Meyers, view here for the idea I was going for: http://www.wesawthat.blogspot.com/2009/02/snls-seth-meyers-sums-up-michael-phelps.html)
Really, gfb? The Armenian genocide was all a freemason conspiracy?
Despite the mountain of evidence clearly showing the Armenians to have been mercilessly slaughtered by the Ottoman Empire, you expect us to believe that it was all a conspiracy theory?! Even though the prevailing view in historical academia is that the genocide was perpetrated by the Ottoman Empire? Really?! (REFERENCE: http://www.nytimes.com/ref/timestopics/topics_armeniangenocide.html#jumpto - Somehow I think an article from a credible media outlet bears more credence than a blogger's mere opinion)
And instead of citing credible evidence, you post a link to one person's OPINION of what happened?! Really?! How STUPID do you think we are?! How deluded must you be to think that an OPINION which doesn't even cite historical sources is a REFERENCE? I MEAN REALLY?!?!
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Not religious, but i have a deep moral conviction that what Israel is doing is both criminal and inhumane.
but not Hamas. Their actions are excusable right? Not Hezbollah, their actions are excusable right?
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Not religious, but i have a deep moral conviction that what Israel is doing is both criminal and inhumane.
but not Hamas. Their actions are excusable right? Not Hezbollah, their actions are excusable right?
What do you expect them to do? Sit down and enjoy the view of the Mediterranean Sea? Of course they have to retaliate in some sort of way. Nobody will be able to tolerate there "CHILDREN" being murdered
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Check the karma.
I'll call the " WAHmbulance" for you.
Fuck I've been waiting a long time to use that line.
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Wow, seems like everyone is Jewish on this board.
Nope, I'm a Catholic.
And you know, I really do not like prejudiced (and incorrect) assumptions.
i'm same as excal but then again this debate shouldn't be about religion. What's islam or Judaism got to do with the crisis thus far? it shouldn't be a factor, it's about people who make political decisions and their consequences, not how mighty you're religion is. If you follow a religion based on the fact that it's powerful and massive then clearly you haven't got a mind for yourself. It should be an individual thing, one that should not be forceful.
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An update: Tennis Channel won't air Dubai tournament
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/TV/02/19/tennis.channel.dubai/index.html
Think I might add this channel is Jewish owned.
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Not religious, but i have a deep moral conviction that what Israel is doing is both criminal and inhumane.
but not Hamas. Their actions are excusable right? Not Hezbollah, their actions are excusable right?
What do you expect them to do? Of course they have to retaliate in some sort of way. Nobody will be able to tolerate there "CHILDREN" being killed!
so you supported the recent war in Gaza. Because "nobody (including Israel) will be able to tolerate their children being killed.
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Not religious, but i have a deep moral conviction that what Israel is doing is both criminal and inhumane.
but not Hamas. Their actions are excusable right? Not Hezbollah, their actions are excusable right?
What do you expect them to do? Of course they have to retaliate in some sort of way. Nobody will be able to tolerate there "CHILDREN" being killed!
so you supported the recent war in Gaza. Because "nobody (including Israel) will be able to tolerate their children being killed.
Of course not. Peace is what we need, but when 1 side doesn't agree, there's nothing we can do.
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lol....
No Hamas' actions are not excusable, but they have been nowhere near the scale of Israel. Depriving starving people of aid and necessities is far worse then living in fear. Killing over 1200 Palestinians is far worse then then 13 Israelis killed in the conflict.
UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA)
The Agency is responsible for feeding 900,000 refugees in Gaza, yet can only get food packets out at a daily rate of 30,000, giving an idea of just how long those at the end of the queue have to wait.
“We have the infrastructure, we have the staff, but we don’t have the food,” he said, adding that the situation was about to become even worse since Israel has banned the import of plastic and UNRWA will run out of essential plastic packets for the food distribution by Sunday. UN news centre 5/2/2009
Gaza is a prison with 45% unemployment, the highest in the world according to the United Nations. Half the population is under 18 and a third of the population lives in refugee camps. Palestinians have little land and few rights. This fuel of despair and humiliation gives rise to new generations of extremists.
p.s gfb, your not really helping your argument br0sefs
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An update: Tennis Channel won't air Dubai tournament
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/TV/02/19/tennis.channel.dubai/index.html
Think I might add this channel is Jewish owned.
Unless all the shareholders are Jewish, I think your assertion is wrong. I mean, Pete Sampras and Andre Agassi have stakes in the company and they certainly aren't Jewish.
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Agree with Excalibur, i don't think they made the decision simply because the station is owned by Jews (which i doubt) but rather that the tournament has become politicised rather then focusing on tennis.
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uh Hamas was democratically elected...and it is ISrael's blockade and isolating the palestinian that are driving them to helplessness. they don't have f16 jets so they just use what they got... ....
offtopic... and turkey also took control of greece for a lot of years and did horrendous things back then..so not just to armenians.. and took constantinople as well...
anyway .......lol this thread is going on and on and on........
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lol....
No Hamas' actions are not excusable, but they have been nowhere near the scale of Israel. Depriving starving people of aid and necessities is far worse then living in fear. Killing over 1200 Palestinians is far worse then then 13 Israelis killed in the conflict.
UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA)
The Agency is responsible for feeding 900,000 refugees in Gaza, yet can only get food packets out at a daily rate of 30,000, giving an idea of just how long those at the end of the queue have to wait.
“We have the infrastructure, we have the staff, but we don’t have the food,” he said, adding that the situation was about to become even worse since Israel has banned the import of plastic and UNRWA will run out of essential plastic packets for the food distribution by Sunday. UN news centre 5/2/2009
Gaza is a prison with 45% unemployment, the highest in the world according to the United Nations. Half the population is under 18 and a third of the population lives in refugee camps. Palestinians have little land and few rights. This fuel of despair and humiliation gives rise to new generations of extremists.
p.s gfb, your not really helping your argument br0sefs
if you think your arguments are strong enough to rebut mine why do you feel the need to say LOL and ROFL at each point I make?
The situation in Palestine is shocking. Innocent Palestinians have been caught up in an endless cycle of violence. As have the Israeli's. However, you can not simply blame Israel. Palestinian leaders have "never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity" Many have acted for their own benefits in the wider Arab world rather then to help their people. At the same time Israel look like the perpetrators to the world as they protect their own citizens from the the countless number of extremists in the territories. Surly, you can't excuse the actions of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the like, by saying "Israel have killed more people, they must be worse".
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Sorry suenoga, force of habit on internetz forums ;). No of course, Israel is not solely to blame. Many times they have offered favourable peace agreements to the Arabic states, only to be refused. No, Hamas cannot be excused, i'm not saying that they can, im just suggesting that if Israel really wanted peace, they should be prepared to make a few concessions, and visa versa. Israel has gone about achieving peace the wrong way, and i think I'm gonna have to bring out the big guns.
Ephraim Halevy, the former head of the Mossad intelligence service, wrote in the Israeli press today that the government in Jerusalem could have stopped the rocket attacks long ago by lifting its siege of Gaza. But, he said, Israel has a broader interest — to ensure that it is the Fatah party of President Mahmoud Abbas, who is popularly known as Abu Mazen, and not Hamas that is politically dominant in the Palestinian territories.
"If Israel's goal were to remove the threat of rockets from the residents of southern Israel, opening the border crossings would have ensured such quiet for a generation. But the real objectives of the operation include preserving Fatah's status as the sole sovereign in the Palestinian Authority and as a partner for negotiations," he said. Guardian.uk newspaper 4/1/2009
ted turner (http://z.about.com/d/bestsellers/1/0/2/7/-/-/call_me_ted.jpg)
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Sorry suenoga, force of habit to internetz forums ;). No of course, Israel is not solely to blame. Many times they have offered favourable peace agreements to the Arabic states, only to be refused. No, Hamas cannot be excused, i'm not saying that they can, im just suggesting that if Israel really wanted peace, they should be prepared to make a few concessions, and visa versa.
I agree 100%
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uh Hamas was democratically elected...and it is ISrael's blockade and isolating the palestinian that are driving them to helplessness. they don't have f16 jets so they just use what they got... ....
offtopic... and turkey also took control of greece for a lot of years and did horrendous things back then..so not just to armenians.. and took constantinople as well...
anyway .......lol this thread is going on and on and on........
Proud of my ancestors. ISTANBUL SINCE 1453 ( not constantinople)
(http://www.antu.com/images/media/wallpaper/since1453_1024.jpg)
This thread is gonna be a record..
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lol....
No Hamas' actions are not excusable, but they have been nowhere near the scale of Israel. Depriving starving people of aid and necessities is far worse then living in fear. Killing over 1200 Palestinians is far worse then then 13 Israelis killed in the conflict.
UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA)
The Agency is responsible for feeding 900,000 refugees in Gaza, yet can only get food packets out at a daily rate of 30,000, giving an idea of just how long those at the end of the queue have to wait.
“We have the infrastructure, we have the staff, but we don’t have the food,” he said, adding that the situation was about to become even worse since Israel has banned the import of plastic and UNRWA will run out of essential plastic packets for the food distribution by Sunday. UN news centre 5/2/2009
Gaza is a prison with 45% unemployment, the highest in the world according to the United Nations. Half the population is under 18 and a third of the population lives in refugee camps. Palestinians have little land and few rights. This fuel of despair and humiliation gives rise to new generations of extremists.
p.s gfb, your not really helping your argument br0sefs
if you think your arguments are strong enough to rebut mine why do you feel the need to say LOL and ROFL at each point I make?
The situation in Palestine is shocking. Innocent Palestinians have been caught up in an endless cycle of violence. As have the Israeli's. However, you can not simply blame Israel. Palestinian leaders have "never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity" Many have acted for their own benefits in the wider Arab world rather then to help their people. At the same time Israel look like the perpetrators to the world as they protect their own citizens from the the countless number of extremists in the territories. Surly, you can't excuse the actions of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the like, by saying "Israel have killed more people, they must be worse".
This is what pisses me of the MOST. Trying to make the suffering of both sides equal, when this FAR from the truth. Israels recent offensive was not even a "war", which usually has two opposing armies. It was a massacre, carried out by the third largest air force in the world against a defensive civilian population.
Vast majority of the civilian casualties in Gaza were children under 13. The statistics are 1230 Palestinians vs 14 Israeli, more than 84:1 ratio. Ehud Barak confessed that this obscene offensive was premeditated for months that the IDF was preparing for a blow against the "terrorist enitity" called Gaza. Logic of genocide.
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Ephraim Halevy, the former head of the Mossad intelligence service, wrote in the Israeli press today that the government in Jerusalem could have stopped the rocket attacks long ago by lifting its siege of Gaza. But, he said, Israel has a broader interest — to ensure that it is the Fatah party of President Mahmoud Abbas, who is popularly known as Abu Mazen, and not Hamas that is politically dominant in the Palestinian territories.
"If Israel's goal were to remove the threat of rockets from the residents of southern Israel, opening the border crossings would have ensured such quiet for a generation. But the real objectives of the operation include preserving Fatah's status as the sole sovereign in the Palestinian Authority and as a partner for negotiations," he said. Guardian.uk newspaper 4/1/2009
ted turner (http://z.about.com/d/bestsellers/1/0/2/7/-/-/call_me_ted.jpg)
That's common knowledge? Of course if Israel had given in to Hamas' demands, then they would have stopped the rocket attacks. But opening up the borders would open up Israel to vulnerabilities of the past like suicide bombing attacks (of which there have been very, very few since the initiation of the blockade). It's also no great secret that the Israeli gov't wants to wipe out Hamas so that Fatah (a now non-terrorist organisation) can bring some sort of sensibility into the peace process.
The rocket attacks are a lesser evil than the suicide bombings, thus the blockade is in effect. Once Hamas shows good will in ceasing its terrorists actions without the need for Israeli force, Israel will respond in kind with easing the blockade.
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(http://media.steampowered.com/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/fe/fe36099dceb167053ae89a5fef34002bed01a6c3_full.jpg)
VCE Notes - home of the ROFL
/endthread
p.s - Enwiabe, how is removing the blockade giving into Hamas demands? It's helping countless civilians in dire need of aid.
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That's one of Hamas' demands... lift the blockade.
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(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ZsbX_SQo000/Rw5jp-YMsFI/AAAAAAAAAoY/DAMprBqi9Qo/s320/baris_guvercini.jpg)
To ease the tension.
Heal the world
Make it a better place
For you and for me and the entire human race
There are people dying
If you care enough for the living
Make a better place for
You and for me.
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No, my point is that, it's not so much giving in, as opposed to helping out hundreds of thousands who need that aid. Fine, "give in" to Hamas, who gives a shit, if it's gonna help that many people I'm sure Israel can afford to take the high ground, but alas, if your petty argument that if Israel eases up the blockade before the rocket attacks stop, that it is giving in, i can see how we got in this mess. Also to shutdown your final point (kinda annoyed as you can tell) WHY THE F*** DIDN'T ISRAEL STOP THE BLOCKADE IN THE 6-month CEASEFIRE PRECEEDING THE INCURSION? ROCKET ATTACKS WERE DOWN 98.2% FROM PRE-CEASEFIRE LEVELS. IF THEY WERE REALLY SERIOUS ABOUT HELPING, SURELY THEY WOULD HAVE LIFTED THE BLOCKADE AT THIS POINT. YES MY CAPS LOCK BUTTON IS BROKEN :].
NO MORE POSTS, NEED SLEEP.
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Ephraim Halevy, the former head of the Mossad intelligence service, wrote in the Israeli press today that the government in Jerusalem could have stopped the rocket attacks long ago by lifting its siege of Gaza. But, he said, Israel has a broader interest — to ensure that it is the Fatah party of President Mahmoud Abbas, who is popularly known as Abu Mazen, and not Hamas that is politically dominant in the Palestinian territories.
"If Israel's goal were to remove the threat of rockets from the residents of southern Israel, opening the border crossings would have ensured such quiet for a generation. But the real objectives of the operation include preserving Fatah's status as the sole sovereign in the Palestinian Authority and as a partner for negotiations," he said. Guardian.uk newspaper 4/1/2009
ted turner (http://z.about.com/d/bestsellers/1/0/2/7/-/-/call_me_ted.jpg)
That's common knowledge? Of course if Israel had given in to Hamas' demands, then they would have stopped the rocket attacks. But opening up the borders would open up Israel to vulnerabilities of the past like suicide bombing attacks (of which there have been very, very few since the initiation of the blockade). It's also no great secret that the Israeli gov't wants to wipe out Hamas so that Fatah (a now non-terrorist organisation) can bring some sort of sensibility into the peace process.
The rocket attacks are a lesser evil than the suicide bombings, thus the blockade is in effect. Once Hamas shows good will in ceasing its terrorists actions without the need for Israeli force, Israel will respond in kind with easing the blockade.
Actually, it's interesting. The Australian government does not consider Hamas itself to be a terrorist organisation, but only its military wing, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, whilst the United States considers both it and Hamas in general to be terrorist organisations.
In any case, the nomenclature doesn't matter. Sovereign nations have in the past done deals with 'terrorist' organisations to bring peace to their cities. For example the British Government had to negotiate with the IRA in Northern Island as their military might was unable to stop the IRA completely.
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^^^
The Ottoman Empire invaded and oppressed Balkan nations for centuries.
LMFAO. Croat. Can't expect a different approach. The topic is about Muslims and Jews here, not Yugoslavia xD.
The Ottomans were the greatest empire of that era, so this is normal. Power & Faith combined can get you many things.
LMFAO? what is so funny about annexing and oppressing foreign lands and people and treating the original inhabitants of a nation as second-class citizens
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All we need now is someone to segue to Hitler and we can be done with this thread. And it should be easy.
You're all wrong, Hitler came back from the dead and used his magical zombie powers to make Israel and Palestine go to war. It's all Hitler's fault. Hitler Hitler Hitler.
Now can we PLEASE close this thread, it's going nowhere and I have no idea what we're really debating anymore >_>
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No, my point is that, it's not so much giving in, as opposed to helping out hundreds of thousands who need that aid. Fine, "give in" to Hamas, who gives a shit, if it's gonna help that many people I'm sure Israel can afford to take the high ground, but alas, if your petty argument that if Israel eases up the blockade before the rocket attacks stop, that it is giving in, i can see how we got in this mess. Also to shutdown your final point (kinda annoyed as you can tell) WHY THE F*** DIDN'T ISRAEL STOP THE BLOCKADE IN THE 6-month CEASEFIRE PRECEEDING THE INCURSION? ROCKET ATTACKS WERE DOWN 98.2% FROM PRE-CEASEFIRE LEVELS. IF THEY WERE REALLY SERIOUS ABOUT HELPING, SURELY THEY WOULD HAVE LIFTED THE BLOCKADE AT THIS POINT. YES MY CAPS LOCK BUTTON IS BROKEN :].
NO MORE POSTS, NEED SLEEP.
Because Israel does not negotiate with terrorists. I've already stated that if they lifted the blockade whilst those 1.8% of rocket attacks were still firing, then no doubt the suicide attacks would have started up again. It's as simple as that. Until Hamas renounces from its charter the desire to destroy Israel, the blockade will not lift.
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uh Hamas was democratically elected...and it is ISrael's blockade and isolating the palestinian that are driving them to helplessness. they don't have f16 jets so they just use what they got... ....
offtopic... and turkey also took control of greece for a lot of years and did horrendous things back then..so not just to armenians.. and took constantinople as well...
anyway .......lol this thread is going on and on and on........
This thread is gonna be a record..
uh Hamas was democratically elected...and it is ISrael's blockade and isolating the palestinian that are driving them to helplessness. they don't have f16 jets so they just use what they got... ....
offtopic... and turkey also took control of greece for a lot of years and did horrendous things back then..so not just to armenians.. and took constantinople as well...
anyway .......lol this thread is going on and on and on........
Proud of my ancestors. ISTANBUL SINCE 1453 ( not constantinople)
(http://www.antu.com/images/media/wallpaper/since1453_1024.jpg)
This thread is gonna be a record..
off topic again... lol
a found this interesting, as i don't know heaps about it.
Renaming
It is widely believed that the city was renamed to "Istanbul" in the aftermath of the conquest. In actuality, Ottomans used the Arabic translation of the city, "Konstantiniyye," as can be seen in numerous Ottoman documents. The name Istanbul, deriving from a Greek phrase ("to the City", Greek: eis -tin- polin ) was already spread among the populace before the conquest. Istanbul would become the official name of the city in 1930.
so apparently not officially named that until 1930
quite sad how they turned agia sophia into a mosque ... but anywho
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^^^
The Ottoman Empire invaded and oppressed Balkan nations for centuries.
LMFAO. Croat. Can't expect a different approach. The topic is about Muslims and Jews here, not Yugoslavia xD.
The Ottomans were the greatest empire of that era, so this is normal. Power & Faith combined can get you many things.
LMFAO? what is so funny about annexing and oppressing foreign lands and people and treating the original inhabitants of a nation as second-class citizens
This thread has nothing to do with Turkey / Ottoman Empire. Please stay on topic.
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lol i know sorry... i was just reading into it now...
but anyway damn u israeli government!!!!!!!! ....... the end.........
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lol i know sorry... i was just reading into it now...
but anyway damn u israeli government!!!!!!!! ....... the end.........
What a cogent, intellectual argument.
... Truly helping your cause there.
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lol eh cbs right now...... just watch that doco i posted somewhere else......
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All we need now is someone to segue to Hitler and we can be done with this thread. And it should be easy.
You're all wrong, Hitler came back from the dead and used his magical zombie powers to make Israel and Palestine go to war. It's all Hitler's fault. Hitler Hitler Hitler.
Now can we PLEASE close this thread, it's going nowhere and I have no idea what we're really debating anymore >_>
Pity Hitler wasn't born in Vienna [but about 200km to the west] :( Coulda made a pun :P
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I don't get it :(
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VN-a ?
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"Because Israel does not negotiate with terrorists."
Instead the jews send all there troops to murder civilians.
What a cogent, intellectual argument.
... Truly helping your cause there.
And all your posts are intellectual and persuasive?
Example of enwiabes arguments: "You have come incredibly close to trolling! consider this your final warning, I'm going to IP check you now and jack off at the same time! Good day to you sir"... tell me that is not him and I will give you cash right now
None of you idiots see. Bush had a month left in office, he said to Israel you can fuck up palestine all you want for a month, while I'm still here. All the countries were against the invasion, except the US. Israel withdraw troops on January 19th. Obama comes into office on January 20th.
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"Because Israel does not negotiate with terrorists."
Instead the jews send all there troops to murder civilians.
What a cogent, intellectual argument.
... Truly helping your cause there.
And all your posts are intellectual and persuasive?
Example of enwiabes arguments: "You have come incredibly close to trolling! consider this your final warning, I'm going to IP check you now and jack off at the same time! Good day to you sir"... tell me that is not him and I will give you cash right now
None of you idiots see. Bush had a month left in office, he said to Israel you can fuck up palestine all you want for a month, while I'm still here. All the countries were against the invasion, except the US. Israel withdraw troops on January 19th. Obama comes into office on January 20th.
Tell me this, then. If Israel wanted to fuck up Palestinians just for the hell of it, why was the West Bank untouched, where the number of Palestinians in WB outnumber those in Gaza by a ratio of 2:1?
Hint: It has something to do with a terrorist organisation having its home base in Gaza...
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I thought this thread was dead.
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I thought this thread was dead.
you thought wrong
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Oh well, then I'll get right to it.
Tell me this, then. If Israel wanted to fuck up Palestinians just for the hell of it, why was the West Bank untouched, where the number of Palestinians in WB outnumber those in Gaza by a ratio of 2:1?
Hint: It has something to do with a terrorist organisation having its home base in Gaza...
That would be awfully stupid of Israel, if they did that their real motives of ethnic cleansing would be exposed as Israel won't have their "Hamas, terrorist organisation blah blah" excuse if they attacked WB.
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That would be awfully stupid of Israel, if they did that their real motives of ethnic cleansing would be exposed as Israel won't have their "Hamas, terrorist organisation blah blah" excuse if they attacked WB.
And out come the conspiracy theories...
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This thread lost its spark when suenoga stopped posting. Now its all just one sided views :/
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I know your Jewish but you need to put aside that Zionist brainwashing your parents drilled into your mind since you were an infant, and open your mind, Israel is the largest global terrorist organisation of this century. FACT.
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Bwahahaha this is lol :')
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^^^^
krptonate, are u a member of stormfront lol?
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I know your Jewish but you need to put aside that Zionist brainwashing...
Your contention's validity ended at that point.
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Wow, just noticed we go to the same uni :)
If you see me say hi. I'm the guy that wears the anti-Israel t-shirt on Wednesdays.
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"The Ottomans were the greatest empire of that era, so this is normal. Power & Faith combined can get you many things."
"I am Turkish, a descendant of the almighty Ottoman Empire."
You're proud of that?
I was proud of the British Empire when I was about 9. I've long since come to see that having an empire created and maintained through coercion and subjugation is nothing to be proud of.
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I know your Jewish but you need to put aside that Zionist brainwashing your parents drilled into your mind since you were an infant, and open your mind, Israel is the largest global terrorist organisation of this century. FACT.
And how eloquently and reasonably you present this "fact".
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heh, what university/course you doing kryptonate?
(p.s did you watch the dunk contest?)
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Mechatronics Engineering at Monash.
Of course I did, but I though Dwight won it...
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Yeah, just...its a shame, because his dunks just look easier because hes 7' and super athletic :/
FERNANDEZ! Crazy hops for a European :D
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LOL I thought he was spanish. Too bad it took him 6 tries...he prolly would've made it to finals.
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"FERNANDEZ! Crazy hops for a European"
"LOL I thought he was spanish."
lol :P
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:P
He is Spanish.
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Back on topic guys and girls.