Classroom teachers who are well qualified, up-to-date with changes in syllabus requirements, experienced and hard working will provide all the assistance that is necessary for students to succeed at the HSC, so long as the students make the best use of their class time and take advantage of offers of additional help from their teachers.
Some people do it for the sense of security as well
You dont really want any regrets when you do your Year 12, so if your parents offer to pay for your tutoring, guess it doesnt hurt
Hmmm, yeah I guess I understand what you mean, but I have a particularly extreme example. There's this guy called Jack in Springvale, who tutors classes of about 60 kids, at a rate of 25 dollars for two hours. That equates to 60 x 25 = $1500
That's $750 per hour, where else can I earn that sort of money?! :O
Like I understand that what he's doing is fine, albeit illegal because of tax evasion, but is it ethical for him to provide a tuition service where there is basically no quality control and where his knowledge is questionable, I remembering one of my friends pulling me along to one of his lessons and we (Jack and I) had an argument over whether sec(-x) and sec(x) are the same thing, they obviously are, but he denied it - that's forever changed my view of the tutoring business, albeit I'll admit I haven't been to much tuition at all, so I can't really comment :)
But you catch my drift yeah? :D
I for one know that tutoring hindered my capacity for self-development and learning, "for many years" cause I was literally spoon fed.
Say No to Tutoring. Say Yes to Independent Learning!
Fuck Tutor. You've got internet etc.... "The world is your oyster"
really? i strongly disagree with that statement. paying for a tutor wont UNDOUBTEDLY increase your score. It might in some cases but IMHO i dont see what a tutor can provide that a 1 on 1 teacher session cant provide. If your teacher doesnt have the time or is not a very good teacher than go to the internet. There are millions of videos and resources from highly educated people on the net. In fact, VCE is practically designed so that you can achieve any score withought the need for out-of-school help. All you need is the text book and some determination. I self learn practically every subject cause i personally cannot learn a thing when someone trys to explain it to me. Im the kind of person that needs to read it for my self and do the questions to understand. So my opinion might be biassed. Although I have absolutely nothing against tutors at all. In fact i wouldnt mind doing it. In the end if the student is happy and wants to do it, why not make money off it?
but that's just my opinion, paying for a tute will undoubtedly increase your score.
I couldn't understand his accent!
I couldn't understand his accent!
LOL!!!! That's mean :P
really? i strongly disagree with that statement. paying for a tutor wont UNDOUBTEDLY increase your score. It might in some cases but IMHO i dont see what a tutor can provide that a 1 on 1 teacher session cant provide. If your teacher doesnt have the time or is not a very good teacher than go to the internet. There are millions of videos and resources from highly educated people on the net. In fact, VCE is practically designed so that you can achieve any score withought the need for out-of-school help. All you need is the text book and some determination. I self learn practically every subject cause i personally cannot learn a thing when someone trys to explain it to me. Im the kind of person that needs to read it for my self and do the questions to understand. So my opinion might be biassed. Although I have absolutely nothing against tutors at all. In fact i wouldnt mind doing it. In the end if the student is happy and wants to do it, why not make money off it?
but that's just my opinion, paying for a tute will undoubtedly increase your score.
Is Dr. He considered tutoring? He calls it coaching. Is coaching and tutoring the same thing?
I'd say most of the 99.5+ kids in my year didn't have tutors...Thats hard to believe...
Actually I do believe it can have the opposite effect and I have seen it happened as well. In some cases kids can rely TOO heavily on tutors and tend to not develop independent skills which are vital for exam study. This is mostly seen in kids who have been tutored from a young age. Sure it can help with things such as concepts and discussing ideas especially in subjects like English. But I do know people who don't study at all for tests and even exams because they think "oh I'll just ask my tutor". but of course I'm not saying all cases are like this, just that it is possible that having a tutor can have negative affects, again especially if you've had a tutor for most of your schooling.really? i strongly disagree with that statement. paying for a tutor wont UNDOUBTEDLY increase your score. It might in some cases but IMHO i dont see what a tutor can provide that a 1 on 1 teacher session cant provide. If your teacher doesnt have the time or is not a very good teacher than go to the internet. There are millions of videos and resources from highly educated people on the net. In fact, VCE is practically designed so that you can achieve any score withought the need for out-of-school help. All you need is the text book and some determination. I self learn practically every subject cause i personally cannot learn a thing when someone trys to explain it to me. Im the kind of person that needs to read it for my self and do the questions to understand. So my opinion might be biassed. Although I have absolutely nothing against tutors at all. In fact i wouldnt mind doing it. In the end if the student is happy and wants to do it, why not make money off it?
but that's just my opinion, paying for a tute will undoubtedly increase your score.
Interesting actually... I still believe that paying for a tutor will definately, incontrovertibly, 100% increase your score. It might be questionable as to how much, but considering that spending time with a tutor is essentially time spent collaborating and investing time and effort into your studies whilst getting (hopefully) insightful input, feedback, and contributions from the tutor, it's hard to argue the opposite way. It's also hard to argue that it will have absolutely zero impact on your score. I just can't see it doing nothing or working the opposite way which is why I am saying that it will definately help. There's also the matter that tutors exist; people must be utilising them for something, and presumably the system works and tutors do in fact help your score.
Again, I'm not talking in the realms of degrees of efficacy, because I don't think they would help all that much in the majority of cases. But I don't think they can damage your score, and I don't think that you'd break even if you utilised a tute. The only way to go is up.
Actually I do believe it can have the opposite effect and I have seen it happened as well. In some cases kids can rely TOO heavily on tutors and tend to not develop independent skills which are vital for exam study. This is mostly seen in kids who have been tutored from a young age. Sure it can help with things such as concepts and discussing ideas especially in subjects like English. But I do know people who don't study at all for tests and even exams because they think "oh I'll just ask my tutor". but of course I'm not saying all cases are like this, just that it is possible that having a tutor can have negative affects, again especially if you've had a tutor for most of your schooling.really? i strongly disagree with that statement. paying for a tutor wont UNDOUBTEDLY increase your score. It might in some cases but IMHO i dont see what a tutor can provide that a 1 on 1 teacher session cant provide. If your teacher doesnt have the time or is not a very good teacher than go to the internet. There are millions of videos and resources from highly educated people on the net. In fact, VCE is practically designed so that you can achieve any score withought the need for out-of-school help. All you need is the text book and some determination. I self learn practically every subject cause i personally cannot learn a thing when someone trys to explain it to me. Im the kind of person that needs to read it for my self and do the questions to understand. So my opinion might be biassed. Although I have absolutely nothing against tutors at all. In fact i wouldnt mind doing it. In the end if the student is happy and wants to do it, why not make money off it?
but that's just my opinion, paying for a tute will undoubtedly increase your score.
Interesting actually... I still believe that paying for a tutor will definately, incontrovertibly, 100% increase your score. It might be questionable as to how much, but considering that spending time with a tutor is essentially time spent collaborating and investing time and effort into your studies whilst getting (hopefully) insightful input, feedback, and contributions from the tutor, it's hard to argue the opposite way. It's also hard to argue that it will have absolutely zero impact on your score. I just can't see it doing nothing or working the opposite way which is why I am saying that it will definately help. There's also the matter that tutors exist; people must be utilising them for something, and presumably the system works and tutors do in fact help your score.
Again, I'm not talking in the realms of degrees of efficacy, because I don't think they would help all that much in the majority of cases. But I don't think they can damage your score, and I don't think that you'd break even if you utilised a tute. The only way to go is up.
some do, some don't, different people learn differently+1
I'd say most of the 99.5+ kids in my year didn't have tutors...
I still don't understand why my parents are willing to fork up like $2000 over the course of the year for my English tuition (only thing I did) - which didn't even help me anyway, when they could have just put that money towards my car fund =.=
long term?
career is 4 lyf, first car is 4year
Fuzzylogic, I find your post interesting - Your school clearly had a culture of students seeking tutoring to boost their scores (not surprising given its PLC) while my school is a complete polar opposite - an almost entirely Anglo-Saxon public school that has little renown for academia. Unsurprisingly, hardly anyone sought tutoring - although my teachers were very good and very motivated to get the best out of us. Especially my physics teacher.
Although in general, I think exceptionally gifted students have little need to blow tons of cash on tutoring and should instead channel their energies into doing their own revision - for free.
Or everyone should just look on ATARnotes ;)
Yes, you're right there is a culture of tutoring being the norm at my school. What I found interesting was that starting from year nine even, a lot of our teachers actually encouraged students who were struggling to find private tutors as well as giving them extra help. I know one of our maths teachers at school had a list of maths tutors that he would give out to anyone who wanted it.Fuzzy - it would be really interesting to go back in time and see how you did without a tutor haha. I'm sure you still would have done amazingly well.
As for 'exceptionally gifted students' having little need to spend money on tutoring-- I don't know if I quite agree. Again, this is probably the product of going to a school where tutors are the norm, but almost year after year, ever top student and incredibly smart student I've known or known about has had tutoring, or been to Dr. He, or North Shore etc. I've also seen incredibly talented students in my class fall behind their peers in who probably werne't as talented, in SACs and tests, simply because they hadn't had tutoring. It seems VCE is not and has not been for a long time, a level playing field.
That said, I never really struggled, yet felt the need to have tutors in almost all my subjects, probably because of peer pressure LOL...in the end, we did a lot of extension, and I have to say that helped me a lot come exam time.
that's not true at all
I think the fact that students with tutors are out-performing students without tutors is saying something about the education system, or maybe just schools.
DlP makes a good point- the teachers can get all the credit at these schools where a huge population of the students are getting private tuition.. so it's quite false advertising.
DlP makes a good point- the teachers can get all the credit at these schools where a huge population of the students are getting private tuition.. so it's quite false advertising.
what the what
I don't think you quite understand the point of a tutor...DlP makes a good point- the teachers can get all the credit at these schools where a huge population of the students are getting private tuition.. so it's quite false advertising.
what the what
some schools can brag about having fantastic students who are actually having to fork out for extra tuition as their teaching methodologies aren't up to scratch and then the school takes all the credit!
And what exactly is the difference between teaching and tutoring, other than a difference in degree ?A) I'm not talking out aloud
1 teacher teaching 30 students 2 hours a week = Teaching
1 teacher teaching 1 student 10 hours a week = Tutoring
Of course the student under the second scenario will do better.
Those who argue against this self-evident fact, are either plain stupid or just like the sound of their own voice
DlP makes a good point- the teachers can get all the credit at these schools where a huge population of the students are getting private tuition.. so it's quite false advertising.
what the what
some schools can brag about having fantastic students who are actually having to fork out for extra tuition as their teaching methodologies aren't up to scratch and then the school takes all the credit!
Student a may outdo student b due to differences in intellectual capacity
B) For someone who dismisses any argument against their opinion as 'plain stupid'
Student a may outdo student b due to differences in intellectual capacity
You are comparing apples with bananas.
I am talking :
1) I am one of 30 students being taught in a classroom setting by Dr Wee for 2 hours a week
2) I am the LONE student being taught one-to-one by Dr Wee for 10 hours a week
2 > 1
Obvious
.
So i assume you are arguing that if the same student was put in both situations, they would achieve better with the latter - this my be the case, but sometimes when you work to tear apart and understand a subject and consequently, your own learning technique it works out better than being spoonfed the knowledge by a tutorI didnt shut down your argument but said that you cant speak for everyone .. So dont be throwing unrelated analogies
well the OP said if tutoring is "NEEDED" clearly; it's not NEEDED. and the degree that it helps is very subjective
I should have been more careful with my words. That was slightly ambiguous. I didn't mean all, just the fact that any tutored student could out-perform one without tutoring. Of course not all students with a tutor could out-do any without - that would be embarrassing.
But the point was that it wasn't the tutors that were so great, it was the students. She believed that their (the tutor's) students didn't accurately measure the tuition centre's success, but it was largely the student's doing and that their participation in tuition was merely an expression of their own or their parents values.
I actually disagree with that. How can tutoring make you do worse? If you're a great student wouldn't you be smart enough to use the tutoring as an advantage and improve with it? Plus I've never heard of someone with tutoring say it made them worse. Someone who says so must have already been unmotivated in the first place.
Lol ok ;D. Maybe it varies for different people. I just think that tutoring is more of a stay the same vs get better thing rather than a get worse vs get better thing if that makes sense =D
I've never once had tutoring so I can't say whether or not it would've helped, but I know that the very top scoring students from my school (including myself) did not recieve tutoring.
Of course, tutoring can be extremely beneficial depending on the individual, but it's definitely not needed to succeed.
I've never once had tutoring so I can't say whether or not it would've helped, but I know that the very top scoring students from my school (including myself) did not recieve tutoring.
Of course, tutoring can be extremely beneficial depending on the individual, but it's definitely not needed to succeed.
If a talented student thought that he is too smart for improvement, that would also be the height of ARROGANCE
Similarly, the right tutor can help even the most talented of students to improve.
At any rate, a tutor can accelerate the learning of even the most talented of students.
If a talented student thought that he is too smart for improvement, that would also be the height of ARROGANCE
But, argonaut, we all agree that talented students want to improve, the point being discussed is whether a tutor will help them improve. You can't compare someone who wants to improve with someone who doesn't
And agronaut, you can improve on your own, without the help of a tutor - its not about arrogance, its about realism - if you know that by working hard through the content, doing practice exams etc. is enough, then why would you get a tutor?? You just have to be honest with yourself about how far you can get on your own (with your classroom teacher)
This debate is just going around in circles...+1 to the all of it and +2 to the bolded part.
Can't we just agree that tutoring is not essential but can be useful to certain students to varying degrees
Moral of the story : if you want a tutor and feel like you will benefit, then get one
If you don't, then don't get one
And agronaut, you can improve on your own, without the help of a tutor - its not about arrogance, its about realism - if you know that by working hard through the content, doing practice exams etc. is enough, then why would you get a tutor?? You just have to be honest with yourself about how far you can get on your own (with your classroom teacher)
I think the best type of confidence is going into an exam, assured that you have done the best you possibly can, hope for the best but prepare for the worst
And there are many cases of perfect scores - even here on AN- on a subject with no tutoring
I also believe that Thushan managed to get 50s without tuition as well
I'll remember to ask him :)
Anyways, but then there's the issue of the line, which seems to come up everywhere, so if your parents decide to do your chores for you so that you have more time to study, does that constitute tutoring/mentoring/coaching? if your parents buy books for you, is that tutoring/mentoring/coaching? if your older siblings give you their notes and helps you out every now and then is that tutoring/mentoring/coaching?
I'm Pretty entirely sure that thushan hasn't been tutored since kumon in like year 8 or 9 LOL.
Some people are just geniuses on their own accord.
I'll remember to ask him :)
Anyways, but then there's the issue of the line, which seems to come up everywhere, so if your parents decide to do your chores for you so that you have more time to study, does that constitute tutoring/mentoring/coaching? if your parents buy books for you, is that tutoring/mentoring/coaching? if your older siblings give you their notes and helps you out every now and then is that tutoring/mentoring/coaching?
At the top level, there is always a 'Brains Trust' behind the scenes, paulsterio :)
Trust me ... lol
That is called familial support ... Some people are lucky enough to have it more than others
That is called familial support ... Some people are lucky enough to have it more than others
I see.
If my mum is a Senior Lecturer in English Literature and my dad is Emeritus Professor of Mathematics and all my brothers and sisters have done VCE ahead of me and I have 24 hour access to them for help/tips/advice then this not tutoring, its familial support and I am doing everything on my OWN
But if I pay some Uni Student $25 an hour for 1 hour a week, I am being TUTORED and I should be ashamed of myself.
I'm Pretty entirely sure that thushan hasn't been tutored since kumon in like year 8 or 9 LOL.
Some people are just geniuses on their own accord.
So you are telling me that Thushan was a tutor at Kumon
Why would you be ashamed? I have already made my opinion clear that there is nothing wrong with tutoring ... Heck, if one has that available to them, they should utilize it to their advantage - guitlessly ....
That is called familial support ... Some people are lucky enough to have it more than others
I see.
If my mum is a Senior Lecturer in English Literature and my dad is Emeritus Professor of Mathematics and all my brothers and sisters have done VCE ahead of me and I have 24 hour access to them for help/tips/advice then this not tutoring, its familial support and I am doing everything on my OWN
But if I pay some Uni Student $25 an hour for 1 hour a week, I am being TUTORED and I should be ashamed of myself.
I strongly believe one can do very well without getting any tuitions as long as determination to work hard is there.
thushan got tutoring for german and biology.
I'm Pretty entirely sure that thushan hasn't been tutored since kumon in like year 8 or 9 LOL.
Some people are just geniuses on their own accord.
So you are telling me that Thushan was a tutor at Kumon
LOL. Im not entirely sure about that, but I know he was tutored at kumon as a child. :P a small child.
I'm Pretty entirely sure that thushan hasn't been tutored since kumon in like year 8 or 9 LOL.
Some people are just geniuses on their own accord.
So you are telling me that Thushan was a tutor at Kumon
LOL. Im not entirely sure about that, but I know he was tutored at kumon as a child. :P a small child.
I choose to interpret this as validation of my job and work
I also believe that Thushan managed to get 50s without tuition as well
You are going to have to ask him.
You should also not believe everything you are told.
I will make this additional point.
If your mum and dad manage every minute of your life, providing research and secreterial assistance and save you a lot of time from having to work things out and do them on your own, which gives you more time to study, then that is also a form of tutoring/mentoring/coaching
I'm Pretty entirely sure that thushan hasn't been tutored since kumon in like year 8 or 9 LOL.
Some people are just geniuses on their own accord.
I'm Pretty entirely sure that thushan hasn't been tutored since kumon in like year 8 or 9 LOL.
Some people are just geniuses on their own accord.
tizi, I did get some tutoring, but not much - bio in year 11, german on a casual basis, and englang for a few months
I see.
If my mum is a Senior Lecturer in English Literature and my dad is Emeritus Professor of Mathematics and all my brothers and sisters have done VCE ahead of me and I have 24 hour access to them for help/tips/advice then this not tutoring, its familial support and I am doing everything on my OWN
But if I pay some Uni Student $25 an hour for 1 hour a week, I am being TUTORED and I should be ashamed of myself.
sorry guys, i've just haven't updated myself on this thread but firstly,I see.
If my mum is a Senior Lecturer in English Literature and my dad is Emeritus Professor of Mathematics and all my brothers and sisters have done VCE ahead of me and I have 24 hour access to them for help/tips/advice then this not tutoring, its familial support and I am doing everything on my OWN
But if I pay some Uni Student $25 an hour for 1 hour a week, I am being TUTORED and I should be ashamed of myself.
no, if you're receiving direct help then that's tutoring, if you're receiving indirect help it's familial support. When I had my VCE Exams, my dad was on Long Service Leave from his work and basically he was at home all day (I still had school), so he'd do things like printing off practice exams for me, going to the bookstore to get me any books that I asked him to, he looked up sample English essays and topics on the Internet for me as well as other things such as study guides and such. I think this is familial support. He didn't directly assist me with coursework material, but he helped me by saving me time, allowing me to study more efficiently and have more breaks.
However, if my dad sat down with me and did exam questions together, taught me and supported me that way, then yes, it'd technically be tutoring. However, I don't see anything to be "ashamed of", I don't understand why you've brought the issue of "shame" into the discussion. We're debating whether tuition helps one to succeed, not whether tutoring is shameful.
I choose to interpret this as validation of my job and work
What do u mean? You work at kumon? :D
I also believe that Thushan managed to get 50s without tuition as well
You are going to have to ask him.
You should also not believe everything you are told.
I will make this additional point.
If your mum and dad manage every minute of your life, providing research and secreterial assistance and save you a lot of time from having to work things out and do them on your own, which gives you more time to study, then that is also a form of tutoring/mentoring/coaching
Hey Argonaut.
Will set this straight.
English Language - didn't receive tuition until about 2-3 months before exams - but I guess I did have a tutor for a couple of months, he was absolutely amazing.
Maths Methods/Specialist - did most of the material in Kumon in years 5 and 6, then worked on my own
Chem - never had a tutor, but I did Olympiad in year 11-12 and my year 11 chem teacher was amazing.
Physics - never had a tutor, did pretty much all the work myself, but went to a TSFX lecture at the end of the year.
Biology - had a tutor for whole year of bio, but it was a complete waste of money, purely coz i couldn't understand his accent at all. he did give me some reading that was good. but i accredit TSFX and Douchy and GTAC, which i searched up.
German - had scocliffe09 as my german tutor, he was amazing, but i wasn't great at german in the first place
So all in all, I had SOME tutoring, but by no account did I have a zillion tutors.
Also, it was doing Biology in Year 11 with next to no spoon-feeding (see note on my tutor), searching up my own resources, and writing mind map after mind map when i realised that's how I learnt best that gave me the study skills i needed for year 12!
Oh and dude, could you be a little less...contemptuous! Make arguments, that's fine, but be logical/reasonable rather than contemptuous.
Maybe I'm misinterpreting this but you managed to do Methods/Specialist material in grade 5 and 6?
If you did then wow!
I think it's a misinterpretation :P
What Thushan meant to say is that he did Kumon in years 5-6, not Methods and Spesh in years 5-6?
I think you should ask him, it's not a misinterpretation :P
Kumon goes into methods and spesh level material. I know someone who was doing volumes of revolution in yr8, and thushan is a fair bit above that guy intellectually (no offence to this person).
Alright, I'll ask Thushan
But relating this back to the discussion, does doing, say, Volumes of Solids of Revolution in Year 8, really help a student achieve more highly later on in Year 12?
mmm, not complaining though - without kumon...i would have been a different person...
On top of that, I doubt someone in year 8 has enough "world knowledge" to reallly understand the maths in the same way that we do?
mmm, not complaining though - without kumon...i would have been a different person...
How so?
- sorry for double post, ceebs editing :P
Who cares about that, a kid in yr8 shouldn't be doing anything other than maybe basic quadratics and trig. It's yr8! One of the very last years with pretty much no substantial homework. Go outside and play a sport or something, don't get bogged down over little booklets filled with calculus.
kumon was the reason i did well in maths in year 12
On top of that, I doubt someone in year 8 has enough "world knowledge" to reallly understand the maths in the same way that we do?This sounds like a very interesting discussion point, can you elaborate on this point?
Who cares about that, a kid in yr8 shouldn't be doing anything other than maybe basic quadratics and trig. It's yr8! One of the very last years with pretty much no substantial homework. Go outside and play a sport or something, don't get bogged down over little booklets filled with calculus.kumon was the reason i did well in maths in year 12
hmmm, interesting conflicting views here, but yeah :\
Getting some hands on experience with complicated stuff at a young age certainly helps. Even if you don't fully understand it or you develop bad habits in the area (e.g. programming for example), I've found that the sheer experience of "seeing it all before" gives you an inherent advantage.
kumon is AWESOME for teaching mental arithmetic, little tricks when working with big numbers and speed, but when you get to levels L+, it just gets ridiculous.. it becomes somewhat useless...
i wish i knew about kumon in primary school, i would have loved to finish up to K