ATAR Notes: Forum
Uni Stuff => Universities - Victoria => University of Melbourne => Topic started by: Panicmode on December 18, 2011, 12:27:30 pm
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I really am having trouble deciding which should be my first preference. Right now science seems to be winning the debate for the following reason:
- Much more freedom in course subjects
- Easier chance of entry (although at this point I don't think I'll have too much trouble getting into biomed)
- Easier to travel overseas as part of exchange during 2nd/3rd year
- Exposed to more people = more opportunity for friends?
If anyone else has anything more to add, please do.
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Few will choose Science over Biomedicine (those who are contemplating PG health sciences), the latter confers no advantage in admission to post graduate courses which is why its puzzling. Pride goeth before the fall eh? Although many seem to cope well in general (not some I know). Im not sure what to say about that last point of yours.
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You can do exchange in biomed, just in limited semesters. Biomed is also much better for socializing and meeting people because it's a core subject based course, whereas the thousand people in science are off doing half a dozen pathways and stuff. In biomed you'll have the same lectures with the same people always.
Few will choose Science over Biomedicine (those who are contemplating PG health sciences), the latter confers no advantage in admission to post graduate courses which is why its puzzling. Pride goeth before the fall eh? Although many seem to cope well in general (not some I know). Im not sure what to say about that last point of yours.
It's not puzzling at all, people choose biomedicine because it's a better course for those who are interested in the health sciences. Also because prestige, but the first part is still true.
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As for your last point, it's probably a question of whether you want a tighter friendship group or a broader friendship (non)group.
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I had both.
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Yes but it's a question of which is easier to obtain. Doing science, I don't think I knew anyone who was in the same 2 subjects as me for most of my degree, until the end when I was doing my maths major. However, the friends I hung out with were based off high school friends, so yes I had both too.
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You can do exchange in biomed, just in limited semesters. Biomed is also much better for socializing and meeting people because it's a core subject based course, whereas the thousand people in science are off doing half a dozen pathways and stuff. In biomed you'll have the same lectures with the same people always.
Few will choose Science over Biomedicine (those who are contemplating PG health sciences), the latter confers no advantage in admission to post graduate courses which is why its puzzling. Pride goeth before the fall eh? Although many seem to cope well in general (not some I know). Im not sure what to say about that last point of yours.
It's not puzzling at all, people choose biomedicine because it's a better course for those who are interested in the health sciences. Also because prestige, but the first part is still true.
Interested in health sciences so much so that they would choose a course which can potentially damage their chances to enter an actual health science course not just one where some lame applications of theory are thrown together to make it seem so much more appealing along with 'medicine' in the title?
EDIT:I'm certainly not complaining though, just an observation..
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I've heard that the BBiomed fees are higher than BSc. Not sure if this is true though.
Guys I need advice - what are the key differences between the BBiomed Major and the BSc major? I think from memory at open days doing research that the BBiomed Major had 2 exclusive majors which BSc students couldn't access, but then again there is the matter of the 20ish other majors that BSc students CAN access.
I got 97.10 with a 36 in Chem and Physics, 37 in Methods, and a 42 in Geog (they consider it for Geology and shit), could I even get into BBiomed considering that the Clearly-In ATAR is 98.45 and the Minimum ATAR is 95.00?
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I've heard that the BBiomed fees are higher than BSc. Not sure if this is true though.
Guys I need advice - what are the key differences between the BBiomed Major and the BSc major? I think from memory at open days doing research that the BBiomed Major had 2 exclusive majors which BSc students couldn't access, but then again there is the matter of the 20ish other majors that BSc students CAN access.
I got 97.10 with a 36 in Chem and Physics, 37 in Methods, and a 42 in Geog (they consider it for Geology and shit), could I even get into BBiomed considering that the Clearly-In ATAR is 98.45 and the Minimum ATAR is 95.00?
Are you asking for second round offers?
I heard they dont give out second round to normal applicants, only seas/access melbourne (i think the latter ONLY), so if cutoff was 98.45, you wouldnt get in with 98.40 which is utter bs imo.
cutting out the better students for those 'seas' applicants and most (besides 1 person) i know who applied for seas really exaggerated their situations. Seriously only 1 person deserved the seas out of people i know, the rest are.. half fabricating. Those are the studemts Melb Uni are accepting over you . BS.
They should at least offer some to Melb Access students ONLY and some to the normal applicants.
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You can do exchange in biomed, just in limited semesters. Biomed is also much better for socializing and meeting people because it's a core subject based course, whereas the thousand people in science are off doing half a dozen pathways and stuff. In biomed you'll have the same lectures with the same people always.
Few will choose Science over Biomedicine (those who are contemplating PG health sciences), the latter confers no advantage in admission to post graduate courses which is why its puzzling. Pride goeth before the fall eh? Although many seem to cope well in general (not some I know). Im not sure what to say about that last point of yours.
It's not puzzling at all, people choose biomedicine because it's a better course for those who are interested in the health sciences. Also because prestige, but the first part is still true.
Interested in health sciences so much so that they would choose a course which can potentially damage their chances to enter an actual health science course not just one where some lame applications of theory are thrown together to make it seem so much more appealing along with 'medicine' in the title?
EDIT:I'm certainly not complaining though, just an observation..
Biomed obviously doesn't ruin anyones chances at getting into PG health science courses. I haven't done it myself but perhaps Russ can confirm that it covers much more biomedical sciences compared to a normal Science course and covers a broad range of disciplines and issues in the healthcare profession - probably gives a much better stepping stone to MD. If I could go back I would have done biomed instead. The BSc is a very broad degree and wasn't able to cover other topics such as Pharmacology and Pathology.
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@Edmund, why didn't you just do some pathology/pharmacology electives in your degree?
@VivaTequila, you mean the biomed 'degree' and the science 'degree', not major. Also, the biomed degree only offers 1 exclusive major that science does not have, which is the 'defence and disease' major. However, this major is just made up by subjects from the pathology and immunology majors. You can easily do the exact same subjects in a science degree.
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Defence and Disease sounds like an Area of Study in VCE Biology :3
Edit: Panicmode knows you can exchange Russ, but it's a lot easier to exchange in Science. Speaking as someone who is in Science, and who is having enough difficulty with my exchange and organising it and slotting it in as it is, I wouldn't like to be trying to exchange from Biomed in second year, that's for sure.
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@Edmund, why didn't you just do some pathology/pharmacology electives in your degree?
@VivaTequila, you mean the biomed 'degree' and the science 'degree', not major. Also, the biomed degree only offers 1 exclusive major that science does not have, which is the 'defence and disease' major. However, this major is just made up by subjects from the pathology and immunology majors. You can easily do the exact same subjects in a science degree.
I wanted to major in A&P and couldn't fit in other electives with all the second year dental prerequisites. In biomed you can cover almost every discipline in the core subjects
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ALSO DO SCIENCE BECAUSE YOU WILL BE MORE AWESOME AT LYF. Just be prepared for all the misinformed h8rs who go 'what are you doing at uni' and then '...oh' when you say Science and not 'amazing!', which is what they would say if Biomed.
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@Edmund, why didn't you just do some pathology/pharmacology electives in your degree?
@VivaTequila, you mean the biomed 'degree' and the science 'degree', not major. Also, the biomed degree only offers 1 exclusive major that science does not have, which is the 'defence and disease' major. However, this major is just made up by subjects from the pathology and immunology majors. You can easily do the exact same subjects in a science degree.
I wanted to major in A&P and couldn't fit in other electives with all the second year dental prerequisites. In biomed you can cover almost every discipline in the core subjects
That's true that you can 'cover' them, but I doubt you can cover them nearly as well as a whole subject dedicated to that particular area. The biomed subjects are good if you want an introduction to those areas though I guess.
ALSO DO SCIENCE BECAUSE YOU WILL BE MORE AWESOME AT LYF. Just be prepared for all the misinformed h8rs who go 'what are you doing at uni' and then '...oh' when you say Science and not 'amazing!', which is what they would say if Biomed.
Science is amazing what you on about.
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I've heard that the BBiomed fees are higher than BSc. Not sure if this is true though.
Guys I need advice - what are the key differences between the BBiomed Major and the BSc major? I think from memory at open days doing research that the BBiomed Major had 2 exclusive majors which BSc students couldn't access, but then again there is the matter of the 20ish other majors that BSc students CAN access.
I got 97.10 with a 36 in Chem and Physics, 37 in Methods, and a 42 in Geog (they consider it for Geology and shit), could I even get into BBiomed considering that the Clearly-In ATAR is 98.45 and the Minimum ATAR is 95.00?
Are you asking for second round offers?
I heard they dont give out second round to normal applicants, only seas/access melbourne (i think the latter ONLY), so if cutoff was 98.45, you wouldnt get in with 98.40 which is utter bs imo.
cutting out the better students for those 'seas' applicants and most (besides 1 person) i know who applied for seas really exaggerated their situations. Seriously only 1 person deserved the seas out of people i know, the rest are.. half fabricating. Those are the studemts Melb Uni are accepting over you . BS.
They should at least offer some to Melb Access students ONLY and some to the normal applicants.
NB: Haven't read it fully, but I think I got the gist. Replying straight up with the VTAC guide saying that 47% of last years cohort got in with an ATAR of under 98.45, meaning practically half the people who got in had lower ATARs.
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^Just keep in mind those 47% of students got in with SEAS. If you don't have SEAS, well, it'd be a lot harder.
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dc302 I completely agree, but people do this! They are LESS IMPRESSED by your participation in a Science degree because it doesn't sound as TECHNICAL!
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Just caught up with all the posts since my last.
Few questions: is Biotechnology Major in the BBioMed course the same as the Biomedical Engineering major in the BSc course? If not, there are two courses in BBioMed which aren't in BSc.
Man, what should I do? I've been told by a friend in 3rd year BBioMed that the cohort is much stronger, meaning they all compete much more and get better scores than those in BSc doing the same subjects?
I think I would prefer BBioMed.
Also, can I do a Mixed Multi Interview now for becoming a doctor at Melbourne later?
FRICK IM SO CONFUSED WITH WHAT TO PUT AS MY PREFERENCES.
I don't want to shut myself out of anything by picking BioMed. What happens if I hit first year and decide that I have an undying love for mathematical physics (fat chance, but who am I to gainsay the bizarre caprices of life?). But I want to pick BioMed, because from what I've heard, the competition will drive me to do well and have a stronger chance of getting into Medicine to become a Doctor.
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@Edmund, why didn't you just do some pathology/pharmacology electives in your degree?
@VivaTequila, you mean the biomed 'degree' and the science 'degree', not major. Also, the biomed degree only offers 1 exclusive major that science does not have, which is the 'defence and disease' major. However, this major is just made up by subjects from the pathology and immunology majors. You can easily do the exact same subjects in a science degree.
I wanted to major in A&P and couldn't fit in other electives with all the second year dental prerequisites. In biomed you can cover almost every discipline in the core subjects
That's true that you can 'cover' them, but I doubt you can cover them nearly as well as a whole subject dedicated to that particular area. The biomed subjects are good if you want an introduction to those areas though I guess.
Oh sorry, I meant you could cover way more disciplines in second year so you had more major choices in third year and make a better decision. At the end of second year I realised I was stuck with just Anatomy, physiology and biochem majors ::)
Just caught up with all the posts since my last.
Few questions: is Biotechnology Major in the BBioMed course the same as the Biomedical Engineering major in the BSc course? If not, there are two courses in BBioMed which aren't in BSc.
Man, what should I do? I've been told by a friend in 3rd year BBioMed that the cohort is much stronger, meaning they all compete much more and get better scores than those in BSc doing the same subjects?
I think I would prefer BBioMed.
Also, can I do a Mixed Multi Interview now for becoming a doctor at Melbourne later?
FRICK IM SO CONFUSED WITH WHAT TO PUT AS MY PREFERENCES.
I don't want to shut myself out of anything by picking BioMed. What happens if I hit first year and decide that I have an undying love for mathematical physics (fat chance, but who am I to gainsay the bizarre caprices of life?). But I want to pick BioMed, because from what I've heard, the competition will drive me to do well and have a stronger chance of getting into Medicine to become a Doctor.
You can transfer from Biomed to Science after first year if you decide to do mathematical physics
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Man, what should I do? I've been told by a friend in 3rd year BBioMed that the cohort is much stronger, meaning they all compete much more and get better scores than those in BSc doing the same subjects?
What? How does this even make sense? In third year, your cohort is a combination of BBiomed and BSci students, because you're taking the same subjects.
I reject these claims that Biomed 'encourages you to be more competitive'. If you are a naturally competitive person, and steal all the books from the library on essay and report topics you are not doing, and spend all your time worrying when someone gets one more mark than you in a mid semester test then you don't need a 'strong cohort' to be driven to do well.
My friend is lax in her Biomed course and averages a 65%. I am insane in my Science course and this semester my average was 95%. Being around people you think are 'better' than those in Science won't make you do any better if you're not willing to work. That drive comes from within. And, additionally, assuming your cohort is a lot stronger is a little uncalled for. I had an offer to do Biomed, and I rejected it, but that doesn't mean I'm any worse than a Biomed student at what I do. It just means I made a choice that worked for me.
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You need to have an ATAR of 99.90 or 99.95 to have the option of an interview now rather than the year before you wish to start the MD.
Both courses are good, so if you're interested in the sciencey area you'll enjoy either degree. If you did want to switch to Mathematical Physics then you can always just transfer over from Biomed to Science.
Both degrees are fairly flexible. There are advantages to both. In biomed, you won't have to run around and do as many pre-req's to cover the areas you are interested in like you do in Science, because the two ''double-subject subjects'' cover a lot of these. On the other hand, I felt like I was under less pressure with my subjects this year (2nd year) compared to my Biomed friends.
Depends what you want really...
In regards to the first poster, both degrees are flexible, but I'd say Science would most likely be easier for an exchange. However, remember that Science is huge, and it's definitely not as close knit as Biomed. People in Science tend to stick to groups based on their high school friends a lot, whereas it seems in Biomed they get to know everyone in the course better given they do all the core subjects together.
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Man, what should I do? I've been told by a friend in 3rd year BBioMed that the cohort is much stronger, meaning they all compete much more and get better scores than those in BSc doing the same subjects?
What? How does this even make sense? In third year, your cohort is a combination of BBiomed and BSci students, because you're taking the same subjects.
I reject these claims that Biomed 'encourages you to be more competitive'. If you are a naturally competitive person, and steal all the books from the library on essay and report topics you are not doing, and spend all your time worrying when someone gets one more mark than you in a mid semester test then you don't need a 'strong cohort' to be driven to do well.
My friend is lax in her Biomed course and averages a 65%. I am insane in my Science course and this semester my average was 95%. Being around people you think are 'better' than those in Science won't make you do any better if you're not willing to work. That drive comes from within. And, additionally, assuming your cohort is a lot stronger is a little uncalled for. I had an offer to do Biomed, and I rejected it, but that doesn't mean I'm any worse than a Biomed student at what I do. It just means I made a choice that worked for me.
Speak for yourself, hipster prick. I'm driven much more by the people around me, and I'm entitled to be. You make it sound like that's an impossibility. By the same token, this is a 3rd year BBioMed friend who said this to me, and it's influenced me to riddle that I'd do better in a BBioMed course. An assumption that the cohort is stronger is actually explicit in the fact that the ATAR requirements are higher. The cohort is stronger. Maybe you might be an exception to the rule with your 95% averages in the science degree, but saying the BBioMed cohort is incontrovertibly just.
Also recognise that I'm not suggesting that you are shit in any way or form, I never said anything that purported that you were worse than a BBioMed student at what you do.
If this sounds like a polemic against you, it's because your post came across as being sheer and vicious against my open suggestions which could have been culled in a pleasant manner.
I came here asking for suggestions, and they tend to work better if people like you leave their heavily subjective farce out of it. You're entitled to your opinion, but appreciate that I'm not voicing anything against it so you don't need to argue it against me.
You need to have an ATAR of 99.90 or 99.95 to have the option of an interview now rather than the year before you wish to start the MD.
Both courses are good, so if you're interested in the sciencey area you'll enjoy either degree. If you did want to switch to Mathematical Physics then you can always just transfer over from Biomed to Science.
Both degrees are fairly flexible. There are advantages to both. In biomed, you won't have to run around and do as many pre-req's to cover the areas you are interested in like you do in Science, because the two ''double-subject subjects'' cover a lot of these. On the other hand, I felt like I was under less pressure with my subjects this year (2nd year) compared to my Biomed friends.
Depends what you want really...
This has confirmed a suspicion; that some of the BBioMed subjects are effectively 'two-in-one' science subjects.
I think that I'll do it if I get an offer, but even then that's unlikely. Hoping for the best, though.
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>: Okay you don't have to be so mean, I promise I wasn't trying to be.
I hope you make a decision that you are comfortable with )':
PS: JUST CURIOUS NOW, but why am I a hipster!!!
PPS: I just meant that it would be silly to base your entire decision on what you think might happen with people around you being more competitive alone, which is what your post kind of implied...but if you truly think you want to do Biomed then go for it. End post.
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Truce. Sorry my post was a bit venomous as well.
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Read my edits! <3
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Just going to weigh in on a few things about biomed...
Firstly, regarding 2012 entry, this is what I remember reading somewhere:
-Minimum ATAR required with successful SEAS appliaction or KLD young scholar etc. is 92.00, as opposed to last year when it was 88.00
-The number of places available to SEAS applicants has now been capped to 30%, well below the 47% who gained entry in 2011 with SEAS.
-Because of the above two measures, it is almost certain that the 2012 clearly in will drop from the 2011 peak of 98.45. I would say maybe to around 97.00.
On the biomed vs. science thing, I'll do a quick summary of what I know. This is assuming you want PG professional health degree afterwards.
First year biomed is 100% set in concrete. You have no choice other than breadth. You do chem, bio, physics, maths and stats. A lot of people seem to struggle with physics and stats. They are not easy and not the best taught subjects, however if you put in the work you will be fine.
In science you must take bio and chem in first year to meet the prereqs for second year. The rest of the choice is up to you. Also note that the first year biomed biology subjects are more human focused and you don't really study anything to do with plants or evolution that is not related to humans. All in all, they are pretty much the same thing.
Second year biomed is where the degrees differ the most, and I have to say that biomed clearly wins here IMO. I haven't done the second year biomed capstone subjects yet, however they integrate foundations from a range of faculties including biochem, genetics, micro/immuno, zoology, physiology, anatomy and a couple more, which give a really solid background, and also meet many prerequisite requirements for majors in third year, whereas in science, you would have to take a lot of these subjects individually. That having been said, these capstone subjects are not easy, probably the hardest ones in the whole degree, and harder than the science equivalents. In biomed, you also complete another 2-4 science or biomed based electives, which should be used to ensure you meet the prerequisites for any major you are considering.
In third year, science and biomed are very similar. 10 of the majors available in biomed are also available in science, and you complete the same subjects for your major with the science students. The other 2 biomed majors are not available to science students, however they are still made up of regular science subjects. In biomedicine, you also complete a couple of third year core subjects, which I beleive have some degree of focus on things such as nutrition and healthcare etc.
So basically, science gives you a heap of choice, and lots of spare subjects to play around with, whereas you don't have this freedom in biomed.
In biomed however, you are in a cohort, and you always take at least one biomed specific subject in each semester of the degree. In first and second year, it is more like 2 subjects per semester spent with your fellow biomedders, which is pretty awesome from a social perspective and is one of the main reasons that I love biomed. The first year was a bit of a hump, but I am very excited for what is coming up next.
That having been said, as previously mentioned, if you are looking at exchange then biomed makes it tough to match subjects or make them up elsewhere, so science may be a better option. I have a few friends who have been going through a lot trying to organize their exchange in biomed.
All in all though, they are both good degrees, and it doesn't really matter which one you end up in to be honest.
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@Viva, science also has the biotechnology major, so there is only 1 exclusive major in biomed
http://bsc.unimelb.edu.au/majors/major/biotechnology
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An assumption that the cohort is stronger is actually explicit in the fact that the ATAR requirements are higher. The cohort is stronger.
Lol what a shit assumption to make. You can't compare two different degrees re: strength of VCE cohort.
Entry into arts is higher than entry into science. Does that make the arts cohort stronger than the science cohort? According to your assumption it does.
You can't compare the strength of a cohort based on "OH WELL THERE IS A HIGHER ATAR REQUIREMENT".
Also fuck you for being rude to mavisgibbons. She's not even fucking hipster. She's fucking scene. <3
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An assumption that the cohort is stronger is actually explicit in the fact that the ATAR requirements are higher. The cohort is stronger.
Lol what a shit assumption to make. You can't compare two different degrees re: strength of VCE cohort.
Entry into arts is higher than entry into science. Does that make the arts cohort stronger than the science cohort? According to your assumption it does.
You can't compare the strength of a cohort based on "OH WELL THERE IS A HIGHER ATAR REQUIREMENT".
MyNameIsBob makes a good point, if your making an assumption that a cohort is stronger based on the ATAR doesn't mean anything.
You might have got a group that got lucky with exams but are really lazy.
Also fuck you for being rude to mavisgibbons. She's not even fucking hipster. She's fucking scene. <3
More like being boss. :)
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Two things:
1. This is true, because ATAR cut off is based on demand and it makes sense that the demand for a course with more limited places is higher than that for one with a greater number of places.
2. The two in one subjects in Biomed are doubly weighted, I just thought you should know ;D
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Biomed is just BSc with a biology based major. It's there to make 98+ kids feel good about not getting into MBBS @ monash.
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Biomed is just BSc with a biology based major. It's there to make 98+ kids feel good about not getting into MBBS @ monash.
qft
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Thanks guys for all the suggestions. I suppose I have a lot to think about now. Tomorrow I'm going to this KLD thing at Melbourne and there will be an admissions person there so I think hopeful I'll be able to get some good advice. As it stands, I have biomed first and science second but my reasoning is really fragile. Basically what Stonecold and Slumdawg have said has sold me. It has nothing to do with the fact that I didn't get into MBBS @ Monash; I'm pretty sure that even if I did get in I'd still wanna go to Melbourne. =D
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panicmode are you chris monger?
or tim carracher?
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panicmode are you chris monger?
or tim carracher?
Ahhh no. I know those guys if that's what you mean. In all honesty though - and I know how ridiculously snobby/arrogant/mean this sounds - those two are not the type to aspire to medicine. I always pictured them as more into visual design, advertising, marketing - that kind of thing.
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IRC channel turnout in this thread.
You can do exchange in biomed, just in limited semesters. Biomed is also much better for socializing and meeting people because it's a core subject based course, whereas the thousand people in science are off doing half a dozen pathways and stuff. In biomed you'll have the same lectures with the same people always.
Few will choose Science over Biomedicine (those who are contemplating PG health sciences), the latter confers no advantage in admission to post graduate courses which is why its puzzling. Pride goeth before the fall eh? Although many seem to cope well in general (not some I know). Im not sure what to say about that last point of yours.
It's not puzzling at all, people choose biomedicine because it's a better course for those who are interested in the health sciences. Also because prestige, but the first part is still true.
Interested in health sciences so much so that they would choose a course which can potentially damage their chances to enter an actual health science course not just one where some lame applications of theory are thrown together to make it seem so much more appealing along with 'medicine' in the title?
EDIT:I'm certainly not complaining though, just an observation..
Don't be naive.
I've heard that the BBiomed fees are higher than BSc. Not sure if this is true though.
Only for some subjects. The difference is negligible when you compare it to the total fees paid.
Biomed obviously doesn't ruin anyones chances at getting into PG health science courses. I haven't done it myself but perhaps Russ can confirm that it covers much more biomedical sciences compared to a normal Science course and covers a broad range of disciplines and issues in the healthcare profession - probably gives a much better stepping stone to MD. If I could go back I would have done biomed instead. The BSc is a very broad degree and wasn't able to cover other topics such as Pharmacology and Pathology.
Yeah pretty much, it very definitely supports the melbourne model idea of "know something about everything and everything about something".
By the same token, this is a 3rd year BBioMed friend who said this to me, and it's influenced me to riddle that I'd do better in a BBioMed course.
I have a BBiomed degree and in third year you will spend more time in the presence of science students than just biomed students. That's not to say there won't be pressure on you, but I never found myself to be competing against other students in 3rd year for marks in our core subjects. There is a general sense of competition all throughout the degree, but it's never particularly cutthroat or overt.
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PS: JUST CURIOUS NOW, but why am I a hipster!!!
Probably because your sig has arts in it and the science bar is so small that no one can read it without actually clicking on it... So they probably thought you were in arts ----> generalisation that they're all hipsters :P
Just for the record VivaTequila that is no manner in which to address someone on these forums, especially someone as revered as Mavis. I would expect much more from someone intending to become a doctor, so please think more carefully before you call people "hipster pricks". In regards to your decision it's clear to me that you're set on biomed, so just do that. Quick question though, do you have any SEAS/Access melbourne considerations?
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I <3 you guyz.