ATAR Notes: Forum
Uni Stuff => Universities - Victoria => University of Melbourne => Topic started by: ulbasour on January 06, 2012, 12:09:34 am
-
With the introduction of the new Chancellors scholars program, what will happen to the copeland scholarship program?
Also, i know that with the scholars program, people who got 99.80 and 99.75 received the scholarship in previous years, but know the chancellors program is limited to 99.90. Does anyone have any knowledge as to whether they may still allow students to enter this scholarship/'program' with a score such as 99.75/.80? Cheers in advance x
-
It is possible: "Students with an ATAR below 99.90 may be considered depending on demand."
Source: http://www.futurestudents.unimelb.edu.au/admissions/entry-requirements/chancellors-scholars-programs (second last line)
However, it's probably a bit hard to say at this stage since it's in its first year. I imagine getting in with a score beneath 99.90 to be a rarity though.
-
PM Tram, he's a Copland Scholar!
-
My friend and I (both with an ATAR of 99.85) asked this question at the change of preference expo. He applied for Cancellor's Commerce and I for Chancellor's Arts. The response at the Scholarships desk was "well done but we have 68 people with better Atars than you so it is highly unlikely". When I asked the same question at the Arts desk the lady who was otherwise really helpful and well informed, didn't know how the program worked within the Arts faculty.
In the press release on the day the results were released, there were only three National scholarship offers to people who wanted to do Commerce and five for Arts. There were none for Environments. As each faculty has a different Vtac course code there is still the chance that Commerce in particular will offer places on demand. I doubt that they would go to the trouble of developing the Copland program and not continue into the next year. Whether they give you the $5000 p.a, though is a different question and nobody could give us a clear answer only that it depended on demand. Whether that demand was on a overall basis or a faculty basis nobody was certain.
-
My friend and I (both with an ATAR of 99.85) asked this question at the change of preference expo. He applied for Cancellor's Commerce and I for Chancellor's Arts. The response at the Scholarships desk was "well done but we have 68 people with better Atars than you so it is highly unlikely". When I asked the same question at the Arts desk the lady who was otherwise really helpful and well informed, didn't know how the program worked within the Arts faculty.
In the press release on the day the results were released, there were only three National scholarship offers to people who wanted to do Commerce and five for Arts. There were none for Environments. As each faculty has a different Vtac course code there is still the chance that Commerce in particular will offer places on demand. I doubt that they would go to the trouble of developing the Copland program and not continue into the next year. Whether they give you the $5000 p.a, though is a different question and nobody could give us a clear answer only that it depended on demand. Whether that demand was on a overall basis or a faculty basis nobody was certain.
yeah, apparently they offered 15 copelands the other year - hopefully if they do it again this year ill be able to scrape in with one :/
-
i'm starting to worry - i didn't have a chance to go on vtac during change of preference period but the top two on my list are both chancellor's scholars which i obviously have no chance in getting in (97.90 only). so my first round offer would be the course third on my list (bachelor of arts at uom), right? i didn't jeopardise anything for not removing the first two although i don't stand a chance?
sorry for going off a tangent by the way.
-
I rang the scholarship office, and they said that for any of the 99.90/99.95 kids that don't take the chancellors program (ie choose Monash med is a common trend over chancellors biomed) then they'll keep going down the atar list until all have been given out...
-
In terms of the Chancellor's scholarship it's dependent upon demand, yes. For biomedicine and science, it will absolutely be 99.9 minimum. Commerce might drop a little, but 99.75 is too low. 99.85 is the number I heard quoted as a "maybe" but it's very uncertain because the program is new and all they know is the applicant numbers so far
And if you have them at preferences #1 and #2, there's no problem with getting a first round offer for preference #3
-
In terms of the Chancellor's scholarship it's dependent upon demand, yes. For biomedicine and science, it will absolutely be 99.9 minimum. Commerce might drop a little, but 99.75 is too low. 99.85 is the number I heard quoted as a "maybe" but it's very uncertain because the program is new and all they know is the applicant numbers so far
And if you have them at preferences #1 and #2, there's no problem with getting a first round offer for preference #3
the demand for commerce at that end of the atar scale is very low. Only 3 people with .90 and .95 got this scholarship. There could be a good chance that the top 15 would filter into the .75 region, which if the number of placements are the same as lasy year (??) then i may have a chance. But then this all based on assumption and may be completely irrelevant with this new program
-
any information on environments?
-
It's hard to guess what they will do with Arts and Environments as there doesn't seem to be the equivalent of the Copland Program in these faculties.
-
Looks like Copland will be offered to 99.85 applicants.
http://www.futurestudents.unimelb.edu.au/admissions/applications/irregular_offers
-
Essentially the chancellors scholars program is separate but closely entwined with the copland scholarship. Last year was the first year of the copland scholarship and this year the first year where they are combined so it's all very new.
Basically if you get the chancellors program, you'll get into the Copland program. However as shown in that link above, it is possible to hold the Copland scholarship BUT NOT be in the chancellors program. People that fit into this category would be the top 15 commencing commerce students (from what i understand there will still be 15 copland scholars) minus the people that got 99.90+ as ulbasour had correctly said due to the lack of demand for commerce at the top end.
To get into the Copland program you would want to be looking at 99.85 as that site says, and 99.80 at the least. 99.75 would probably be too low.
Note that with only holding the Copland scholarship you do not get the guaranteed entry to a postgrad degree which is one of the major selling points of the chancellors scholars program, but you do get all the other opportunities (mentoring by a CEO, study exchange, invitation to events, etc.)
Note that the copland scholarship is only a commerce thing, none of the other faculties offer an equivalent scholarship.
-
Essentially the chancellors scholars program is separate but closely entwined with the copland scholarship. Last year was the first year of the copland scholarship and this year the first year where they are combined so it's all very new.
Basically if you get the chancellors program, you'll get into the Copland program. However as shown in that link above, it is possible to hold the Copland scholarship BUT NOT be in the chancellors program. People that fit into this category would be the top 15 commencing commerce students (from what i understand there will still be 15 copland scholars) minus the people that got 99.90+ as ulbasour had correctly said due to the lack of demand for commerce at the top end.
To get into the Copland program you would want to be looking at 99.85 as that site says, and 99.80 at the least. 99.75 would probably be too low.
Note that with only holding the Copland scholarship you do not get the guaranteed entry to a postgrad degree which is one of the major selling points of the chancellors scholars program, but you do get all the other opportunities (mentoring by a CEO, study exchange, invitation to events, etc.)
Note that the copland scholarship is only a commerce thing, none of the other faculties offer an equivalent scholarship.
"selling point", as if students decide to get 99.85 instead of 99.90. :p
-
From Melbourne Uni website - bold added.
Chancellor's Scholars - Copland Program
Students selected into the Bachelor of Commerce (Chancellor’s Scholars’ Program) will automatically receive membership of the Copland Program as one of the benefits.
Selection is based on academic merit and is guaranteed for students who have completed secondary schooling in Australia in 2011 with an ATAR or Notional ATAR of 99.9 or above. Students who apply to the Bachelor of Commerce (Chancellor’s Scholars’ Program) and who have achieved an ATAR of 99.9 are guaranteed entry into the program, regardless of whether the Bachelor of Commerce is placed as their first preference course.
The Copland Program recognises students for their outstanding work during secondary studies by providing access to unique opportunities including:
Guaranteed entry into the graduate program of their choice as listed under the Chancellor’s Scholars’ Program, subject to course prerequisites. No minimum GPA is required in the undergraduate degree (however students may be required to undertake an interview);
Individual mentoring by the CEO of one of Australia’s leading business, government or not-for-profit
organisations
International exposure through study abroad or exchange at a leading partner institution, study tour or workplace program
Scholarship bursaries as outlined in the Chancellor’s Scholars’ Program
Participation in a unique program directed at enhancing understanding of the issues central to creating a just, prosperous and sustainable society in Australia
Involvement in specialised orientation and transition-to-commerce activities in the first year of study
Access to academic advisors devoted to mentoring Copland Scholar participants throughout their studies
Invitations to Faculty sponsored events, such as lectures by leading international academics, roundtable discussions with prominent members of the political and business worlds, and various student leadership events. Copland Scholars will also be appointed as a member of the Faculty’s student leadership group, meet regularly with senior academic staff, and represent the student body at meetings with the Faculty Consultative Committee and Alumni Council.
So what does this mean? - do they get guaranteed JD with 99.85 whereas the same ATAR in Arts or Science doesn't?
-
"selling point", as if students decide to get 99.85 instead of 99.90. :p
haha true :P But i think more in terms of when choosing what uni to go to-where unis put massive efforts into luring in the best students
In regards to the comment just above, what i gather i means from talking to the deputy dean, is that you only get the gurantee IF you are part of the chancellors scholars AND Copland program hence the part where they say "Guaranteed entry into the graduate program of their choice as listed under the Chancellor’s Scholars’ Program".
Only holding the Copland scholarship does not afford you the same guarantee. Let's face it though, if you've gotten 99.85 you've got a pretty good chance of getting into the JD with a CSP anyway, i believe statistics find that people that get above 99.50 get into the graduate course they want anyway in the majority of cases.
-
I got into Copland on 99.85 and the email which they sent me says "a guaranteed Commonwealth Supported Place in the University’s graduate law degree, the Melbourne JD", if you wanted that cleared up.
-
From my reading, yes.
-
I got into Copland on 99.85 and the email which they sent me says "a guaranteed Commonwealth Supported Place in the University’s graduate law degree, the Melbourne JD", if you wanted that cleared up.
This seems so unfair that you can get guaranteed pathway with a Commerce degree but not with an Arts degree on the same ATAR of 99.85. Both are legitimate pathways for JD. Seriously WTF???
-
No more unfair than the idea of giving guaranteed places to high school students in the first place
-
No more unfair than the idea of giving guaranteed places to high school students in the first place
Yes but if they are going to give guaranteed spots then there should be no discrimination on the basis of which undergraduate degree one chooses when there is no particular prerequisite degree for admission.
-
It's not discrimination...
By your logic, all university courses should have the same ATAR requirement to get in...
-
It's not discrimination...
By your logic, all university courses should have the same ATAR requirement to get in...
Que? How does that follow...
My point is that if two people have the same ATAR and seek entry into the same course i.e. the JD (not different courses) then there should be no discrimination regarding what they do in their undergraduate course, if there is no undergraduate course prerequisite.
-
The dux of our school got 99.75 and he received a scholarship to Sciences at Melbourne. I'm not sure if it was the Chancellor's Scholarship, because I remember he told me that he went to the head of Sciences and appealed to them.
-
It's not discrimination...
By your logic, all university courses should have the same ATAR requirement to get in...
Que? How does that follow...
My point is that if two people have the same ATAR and seek entry into the same course i.e. the JD (not different courses) then there should be no discrimination regarding what they do in their undergraduate course, if there is no undergraduate course prerequisite.
i can totally see where you comming from and how you think it's unfair. Essentailly it comes from this: the commerce faculty take their scolarships exceptionally seriously, (not talking about uni wide scholarships like nationals/access) but the offer a extremely wide range of scholarship-probably more then any other faculty. case in point-they're on an aggressive compaing to raise 5 million dollars for scholarships in the next 5 years, just for commerce students from alumni donations.
The reason that there is a guaranteed place, is NOT because this is something the university had decided, but something that the COMMERCE faculty itself has sought out and negotiated for their top achieving students.
It is not at all a case of a pre-req or anything like that, simply another (albeit rather big) selling point for the commerce faculty.
If you want to to get the same thing for arts students then the scholarship section of the arts department should probably lobby the law department like the commerce faculty presumably has.
The only way this is discrimination is through the fact that the commerce faculty has decided to 'discriminate' and give it's scholarships and use it's influence to help to commerce students as opposed to arts students.
-
The Admissions Office pretty much confirmed what you have said above about the Commerce Faculty seeking pathways for their students. I am not convinced on the distinction made by them between the Commerce faculty and the university...the Commerce faculty is just one part of the University. Apparently, the Copland Program though has been approved by the Board of Admissions.
What I think is unfair is the fact that the Law Faculty is not treating all future applicants in the same way. By providing the guaranteed places to some with a 99.85 ATAR and not others, based on a preference to study Arts and not Commerce, can't be justified. Surely the Chancellor's Scholars criteria for guaranteed pathways was meant to apply across the board to all university students and not treat any one group of applicants preferentially? Whether they be Biomed, Science or Arts students with a desire to do Post-graduate Law.
-
My point is that if two people have the same ATAR and seek entry into the same course i.e. the JD (not different courses) then there should be no discrimination regarding what they do in their undergraduate course, if there is no undergraduate course prerequisite.
ATAR is irrelevant for the JD, so it can't be considered discrimination. If you have the scholarship then you get to go in, NOT if you have an ATAR of 99.9+. The fact that some students got this scholarship with lower ATARs is again, not relevant, because it has nothing to do with the JD, only the Chancellor's Scholar's Program and the Commerce Copland Scholarship.
-
How can ATAR be considered irrelevant for the JD? The FFP guarantee offered for the JD is based on ATAR for students with 99 plus. The criteria for Copland is only based on ATAR within the Commerce Faculty, there is no other requirement. The only requirement for Chancellors is ATAR. Your distinction isn't logical.
-
The dux of our school got 99.75 and he received a scholarship to Sciences at Melbourne. I'm not sure if it was the Chancellor's Scholarship, because I remember he told me that he went to the head of Sciences and appealed to them.
how did he do that? is that legal??
-
^^^
As loathe as I am to judge this based on 2 lines on the internet, you'll find that the university has complete discretion in offering places/scholarships. They can decline a place to a 99.95 student if they find the student isn't one that they want.
How can ATAR be considered irrelevant for the JD? The FFP guarantee offered for the JD is based on ATAR for students with 99 plus. The criteria for Copland is only based on ATAR within the Commerce Faculty, there is no other requirement. The only requirement for Chancellors is ATAR. Your distinction isn't logical.
ATAR is a requirement for scholarship X. Scholarship X offers Graduate position Y. ATAR is not a direct requirement for Graduate position Y.
Thus, it is not discrimination for different scholarships to have different ATAR requirements despite both offering access to Graduate Position Y.
-
At face value, the Copland program has got to be one of the best deals going.
Anywhere.
-
In an email I just received from the Admissions Officer for the JD it was indicated that they make no differentiation between undergraduate degrees. According to her the guaranteed pathway requires 99.90. She indicated there were no exceptions to this and asked for the link to rectify any inaccurate information to the contrary.
Where is the consistency???.
-
Having done some looking into it it seems that the guaranteed place is most defintiely true
OP: ulbasour, it seems that the scholarship now has the cutoff of 99.85 for sure...
http://www.fbe.unimelb.edu.au/scholarships/information/Copland.html
-
In an email I just received from the Admissions Officer for the JD it was indicated that they make no differentiation between undergraduate degrees. According to her the guaranteed pathway requires 99.90. She indicated there were no exceptions to this and asked for the link to rectify any inaccurate information to the contrary.
Where is the consistency???.
This sort of thing is not unusual at all. Anyway, its still not discrimination on the basis of your course or whatever it was you were saying