ATAR Notes: Forum
Uni Stuff => Universities - Victoria => University of Melbourne => Topic started by: Thelimz on February 10, 2012, 02:47:11 pm
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I got a first round offer for biomedicine at Uni of Melb, but now, today I received an offer for Medical science at Griffith with a basically guaranteed MBBS. I don't know which one to pick now, because graduate medicine at Melbourne is very hard to get into, but I like the prestige, whereas Griffith is 6 years all up and I will have an MBBS. What to do?
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If you really really really want to become a doctor, MBBS at Griffith.
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If it's guaranteed you will get into MBBS after your Med Science degree, and you want to do medicine, go to Griffith. Prestige isn't a big deal - you're still qualified the same way.
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What if I'd like to work overseas? Wouldn't Melbourne Uni be a better one to finish? because to be honest, no one outside of Australia would have even heard of Griffith.
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Not sure about it, but I has heard u need to do extra testing to be able to to practice overseas. Sure Melbourne's a more prestigious uni, but what use is it if you can't do what you want? There's a lot of people who can't be what they want to be due to the Melbourne Model, like... Melbourne JD from arts. It's better not to risk your chances becoming a doctor UNLESS you know your chances of getting in Melbourne MD is pretty good.
Well, judging from your Biomed first pref, you should have a slightly better chance of getting Melbourne MD, but hey, your choice.
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Do griffith uni, postgraduate at biomedicine is most likely going to be much more difficult with all the competitive/ large amount of students wanting to do medicine, but it is still a good course. As for working overseas, just e-mail griffith uni so they can let you know the possibilities.
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yeah, what is attracting the the no hassle with worrying if i'll get medicine, but what isn't is that i'll have to move, settle into a completely new life style, not sure if i can get a masters there (have to check), again the international thing. With melbourne, there may be some competition, but even if i don't get into melbourne uni, i will surely get into other graduate schools. Its a very tough choice.
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but even if i don't get into melbourne uni, i will surely get into other graduate schools. Its a very tough choice.
That's not something you should really rely on though, graduate medicine will be very competitive come 2015 entry (more so then now IMO) judging by the clearly-in increases of biomed and science at Melbourne as an example. Considering that everyone that doesn't get into MD at Melbourne will probably have Deakin and Monash as second preferences (only other Victorian graduate schools), it makes those graduate schools pretty competitive too. It's not something that I'd take as a given. There's obviously interstate schools, but that gives you the same problem as Griffth with the lifestyle.
There's also the GAMSAT as another variable. I know people with less than 80 ATAR's get 70+ in the GAMSAT, while I know others that scored 95+ ATAR's that struggle to break 60. Both sets of people do well in uni.
I agree with everyone that everyone has said above, if you know you want to do medicine, I'd personally take the safe option and go with the Griffith option. There's just so much risk with going the graduate pathway when you have an MBBS there available if you want it.
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But with the increasing cutoffs to even make it into biomedicine of science, wouldn't that regulate the number of people doing these, and in effect regulate the number of people applying for medicine. Remember that 56% of the biomedicine cohort this year are SEAS applicants, and this number seems to keep rising, decreasing the actual competition to get into medicine. And most of the people from other biomedical science courses are again less competition as most/all of them would have had biomedicine at melbourne as a higher preference. So this actually leaves the better part of the biomedicine cohort at UoM as my competition, so around 150 people. So maybe its not as bleak as I or you may think.
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There are essentially 3 issues.
1) For medicine, alma mater does not matter, so go to Griffith.
2) If you want to work overseas, you'll have to sit the licensing exam in that country anyway, like the USMLE for the USA. Hence, alma mater isn't that important.
3) Getting into UoM MD or Graduate Medicine anywhere isn't easy at all, you have guaranteed MBBS at Griffith, why not? :P
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But with the increasing cutoffs to even make it into biomedicine of science, wouldn't that regulate the number of people doing these, and in effect regulate the number of people applying for medicine. Remember that 56% of the biomedicine cohort this year are SEAS applicants, and this number seems to keep rising, decreasing the actual competition to get into medicine.
That'd be true except that you don't need a science/biomed degree to do medicine, so those people could apply for other degrees at/outside Melbourne Uni and then apply for medicine. But the increasing clearly-in for Science means that more people are wanting to do science, well it can be assumed anyway.
Also just because they're SEAS applicants, why does that decrease the competition? It's not like those in biomed without a 99+ ATAR, they can't be as competitive in the biomedicine degree as the ones getting 99+. The Uni/GAMSAT are a different game compared to VCE. I scored an ATAR of ~93 yet I still have a competitive GPA/GAMSAT combo (6.8/69) for applying to med.
And most of the people from other biomedical science courses are again less competition as most/all of them would have had biomedicine at melbourne as a higher preference. So this actually leaves the better part of the biomedicine cohort at UoM as my competition, so around 150 people. So maybe its not as bleak as I or you may think.
Again that is implying that since they scored less ATAR-wise than you, they aren't as competitive. The fact that people get into med from science, and people in biomed miss out shows that if someone has a lower ATAR than you, they can still be your competition. I'm sure you'll be fine in uni and go well, but it's not safe to assume that your only competition are those in your cohort that got similar ATARs, and basing a decision off that.
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If you have a problem with moving interstate, that's completely understandable. I didn't consider non VIC unis when I was in year 12 and I would have rejected an offer from USyd etc. because I didn't want to move. So if you're not comfortable moving or if it's not an option then don't feel as if you have to. That said, if you are okay with it then a bird in the hand etc.
Remember that 56% of the biomedicine cohort this year are SEAS applicants, and this number seems to keep rising, decreasing the actual competition to get into medicine. And most of the people from other biomedical science courses are again less competition as most/all of them would have had biomedicine at melbourne as a higher preference.
This would matter if ATAR was relevant.
2) If you want to work overseas, you'll have to sit the licensing exam in that country anyway, like the USMLE for the USA. Hence, alma mater isn't that important.
Licensing exam =/= job =/= job you want. Internationals I've spoken to chose UoM for graduate study over other universities in Australia/the world based in no small part on its ranking. It's something to keep in mind (this is more a semantic point though in case anybody else reads this later)
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But with the increasing cutoffs to even make it into biomedicine of science, wouldn't that regulate the number of people doing these, and in effect regulate the number of people applying for medicine. Remember that 56% of the biomedicine cohort this year are SEAS applicants, and this number seems to keep rising, decreasing the actual competition to get into medicine.
That'd be true except that you don't need a science/biomed degree to do medicine, so those people could apply for other degrees at/outside Melbourne Uni and then apply for medicine. But the increasing clearly-in for Science means that more people are wanting to do science, well it can be assumed anyway.
Also just because they're SEAS applicants, why does that decrease the competition? It's not like those in biomed without a 99+ ATAR, they can't be as competitive in the biomedicine degree as the ones getting 99+. The Uni/GAMSAT are a different game compared to VCE. I scored an ATAR of ~93 yet I still have a competitive GPA/GAMSAT combo (6.8/69) for applying to med.
And most of the people from other biomedical science courses are again less competition as most/all of them would have had biomedicine at melbourne as a higher preference. So this actually leaves the better part of the biomedicine cohort at UoM as my competition, so around 150 people. So maybe its not as bleak as I or you may think.
Again that is implying that since they scored less ATAR-wise than you, they aren't as competitive. The fact that people get into med from science, and people in biomed miss out shows that if someone has a lower ATAR than you, they can still be your competition. I'm sure you'll be fine in uni and go well, but it's not safe to assume that your only competition are those in your cohort that got similar ATARs, and basing a decision off that.
There are many truths in your post.
A 90+ ATAR from an unrepresented school, say a government school in a low SES area, is massive. This kid would almost certainly have been a 99.9 ATAR anywhere else. He'll be tough to beat at Uni
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that is one of the most lol worthy posts i've seen on this forum.
so ignorant.
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that is one of the most lol worthy posts i've seen on this forum.
so ignorant.
Well, you yourself don't seem to have contributed in any way so . . .
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But with the increasing cutoffs to even make it into biomedicine of science, wouldn't that regulate the number of people doing these, and in effect regulate the number of people applying for medicine. Remember that 56% of the biomedicine cohort this year are SEAS applicants, and this number seems to keep rising, decreasing the actual competition to get into medicine. And most of the people from other biomedical science courses are again less competition as most/all of them would have had biomedicine at melbourne as a higher preference. So this actually leaves the better part of the biomedicine cohort at UoM as my competition, so around 150 people. So maybe its not as bleak as I or you may think.
So are you saying that just because someone is a SEAS applicant that they're somehow no match for you? I had a friend who's mum had breast cancer whilst he was in Year 12, so that emotionally affected him. He ended up getting a 96 whilst he could have gotten higher. So are you saying that just because he's SEAS that means that in Uni he won't be a match for you?
Also, you seem to have neglected the fact that there are people in Bachelor of Science as well. I had BSc on my preferences but not BBioMed, so you can't just assume that you're better than the people in BSc because you're in BBioMed.
Lastly, you seem to think that high ATAR = high GPA, sorry it isn't this way. It's not only GPA, but also GAMSAT and Interview, are you so sure that you'll be able to beat the others in the GAMSAT and the Interview? You seem to think that getting into graduate medicine is easy, but it's not, you're not only in competition with your own year, but also people from the year older who didn't get in the year before.
Btw, you seem to talk as if you have the best VCE marks around and will get into MD easily, a lot (if not most) of the BBioMed students will have similar (if not higher) scores. Again, those in BSc who are aiming for MD will have similar scores as well.
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I repeat.
A 90+ ATAR from an unrepresented school, say a government school in a low SES area, is massive. This kid would almost certainly have been a 99.9 ATAR anywhere else
I was given a chance to excel at school because my parents spent twice as much money on my education than the government spends on a government school kid. I benefited from a better standard of tuition and the resources/amenities of my school.
I aactually did my oral on this last year.
The median ATAR of a private school is 20 points higher than the median of a government school.
And private schools dominate admissions at the prestigeous courses at prestigeous universities.
This has nothing to do with talent and intelligence.
Thats why SEAS was started.
A fact.
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I cannot understand how a medical science course at Griffith gains you 100% entry into med? is this just how it works?> what am i missing.
Personally .... I would go for Biomed at melb because I know that in the end of the day the best med course in australia is/will be Melbourne MD program and if had any greater opportunity to get into that i would take it.
If your intelligent enough , and work hard enough .. you will get into postgrad anyway...
Yes postgrad is extremely competitive .. but i guess it will prove if your set out to be a doctor anyway. If you clearly study hard and dont get the required gamsat , gpa or interview requirement then maybe your not set out to study med in the end of the day.
If i was you , i would have confidence that i would get into med one way or the other and go for MD at melbourne uni.
+ the resources you get at melb uni are astounding ... many many of my friends who did biomed at melb got into med first time around. so give it a shot
thats my 2cents.
goodluck.
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If i was you , i would have confidence that i would get into med one way or the other and go for MD at melbourne uni.
Spot on.
If there is one thing that is coming out loud and clear in these kinds of threads, its a distinct lack of confidence and fear of competition.
Its as if people are scared that they peaked in Year 11 ... lol
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^totally agree.
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TheLimz. Something just occurred to me. Why not just take Griffith undergraduate? Finish the two year Medical Science course then sit the GAMSAT and try and get into melbourne MD? If you don't get in you have guaranteed MBBS at Griffith and you get into med either way.
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TheLimz. Something just occurred to me. Why not just take Griffith undergraduate? Finish the two year Medical Science course then sit the GAMSAT and try and get into melbourne MD? If you don't get in you have guaranteed MBBS at Griffith and you get into med either way.
I might be wrong here, but no, you can't do this because you have to throw away any other medical course in order to be considered for the GEMSAS match
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TheLimz. Something just occurred to me. Why not just take Griffith undergraduate? Finish the two year Medical Science course then sit the GAMSAT and try and get into melbourne MD? If you don't get in you have guaranteed MBBS at Griffith and you get into med either way.
I might be wrong here, but no, you can't do this because you have to throw away any other medical course in order to be considered for the GEMSAS match
Pretty sure that's correct.
just be confident in your abilities.
all the best of luck.
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TheLimz. Something just occurred to me. Why not just take Griffith undergraduate? Finish the two year Medical Science course then sit the GAMSAT and try and get into melbourne MD? If you don't get in you have guaranteed MBBS at Griffith and you get into med either way.
Because with provisional entry your undergrad degree (ie Medical Science) isn't completed until the end of the MBBS degree (as the MBBS subjects count for electives of the med science course). Medical Science is a 3 year degree, it just takes 2 years to complete because of the was the MBBS subjects count for it. MD (and every other graduate program) requires the completion of an undergrad degree for entry. I'm pretty sure that's how it is anyway...
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I got a first round offer for biomedicine at Uni of Melb, but now, today I received an offer for Medical science at Griffith with a basically guaranteed MBBS. I don't know which one to pick now, because graduate medicine at Melbourne is very hard to get into, but I like the prestige, whereas Griffith is 6 years all up and I will have an MBBS. What to do?
I faced this exact same situation last year. Ended up at Melbourne because:
-It is one of the best med schools, whilst Griffith as a uni isn't that great
-You get 4 goes at GAMSAT for MD at Melb...which will give you enough chances
-Couldn't really afford to move out of home
-Melbourne gave me a scholarship
-MBBS at Griffith could be bonded if your GPA is in the bottom quarter of the cohort
-It is difficult to do your internship in Victoria if your degree is from interstate
Make our own choice, but for me the above reasons pretty much made the decision a lot easier.
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TheLimz. Something just occurred to me. Why not just take Griffith undergraduate? Finish the two year Medical Science course then sit the GAMSAT and try and get into melbourne MD? If you don't get in you have guaranteed MBBS at Griffith and you get into med either way.
I might be wrong here, but no, you can't do this because you have to throw away any other medical course in order to be considered for the GEMSAS match
This was certainly possible, but deeply frowned upon by Griffith. They might have patched up the loophole by now.
TheLimz. Something just occurred to me. Why not just take Griffith undergraduate? Finish the two year Medical Science course then sit the GAMSAT and try and get into melbourne MD? If you don't get in you have guaranteed MBBS at Griffith and you get into med either way.
Because with provisional entry your undergrad degree (ie Medical Science) isn't completed until the end of the MBBS degree (as the MBBS subjects count for electives of the med science course). Medical Science is a 3 year degree, it just takes 2 years to complete because of the was the MBBS subjects count for it. MD (and every other graduate program) requires the completion of an undergrad degree for entry. I'm pretty sure that's how it is anyway...
This is the case at UQ however not at Griffith. The BMedSc is accelerated and you get it after two years.
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-You get 4 goes at GAMSAT for MD at Melb...which will give you enough chances
With graduate entry, are you allowed to sit the GAMSAT after you've completed the BBioMed/BSc.
Ok so for example, my final year of BSc is 2012, so I applied to start MD in 2013, but I don't get in. Could I sit the GAMSAT again in 2013 and apply for the 2014 MD cohort...etc. and technically keep doing this until I get in?
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You sure can. You can keep trying until your undergraduate degree becomes too old to apply for the postgraduate degree.
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-You get 4 goes at GAMSAT for MD at Melb...which will give you enough chances
With graduate entry, are you allowed to sit the GAMSAT after you've completed the BBioMed/BSc.
Ok so for example, my final year of BSc is 2012, so I applied to start MD in 2013, but I don't get in. Could I sit the GAMSAT again in 2013 and apply for the 2014 MD cohort...etc. and technically keep doing this until I get in?
I believe so.
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You sure can. You can keep trying until your undergraduate degree becomes too old.
which i think is generally 9 years?
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There are a couple of other points I would like to make:
-The Biomed cohort is way overhyped. It is competitive yes, but nowhere near as much as I was expecting. Monash medicine would be much tougher. Over 1 in 10 biomedicine students fail the first year statistics subject. I'd be much more worried about students from other unis pinching your MD spot rather than your biomed peers.
-Getting a high GPA is simple. Work your ass off consistently and study effectively. I guarantee you will be fine. Drop off for a second and you'll pay. Never get complacent. As for GAMSAT/Interview, these can come down to things such as luck, aptitude, communication skills etc. which may be beyond your control. That having been said, if you study for GAMSAT and practice your interview skills, it will definitely help.
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Over 1 in 10 biomedicine students fail the first year statistics subject. I'd be much more worried about students from other unis pinching your MD spot rather than your biomed peers.
Would you have any statistics regarding the number of students going into MD from a BBioMed, BSc or a degree from another uni, as UoM have had 2 MD intakes now, I believe?
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When I said that SEAS applicants weren't really competition, what I meant was that, personally, I reckon most of them are not real SEAS-worthy applicants. I know some who are legitimate, but many who are not. So honestly, the large intake of SEAS applicants will have a large intake of illegitimate ones. But as another person mentioned, some may blossom in uni or they may not, either way I'm swayed to Melbourne uni now.
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Over 1 in 10 biomedicine students fail the first year statistics subject. I'd be much more worried about students from other unis pinching your MD spot rather than your biomed peers.
Would you have any statistics regarding the number of students going into MD from a BBioMed, BSc or a degree from another uni, as UoM have had 2 MD intakes now, I believe?
Last year ~50% of MD spots went to UniMelb... two thirds biomed and one third science.
This year I don't have the exact stats yet, but of the Melbourne students who made it, 75-80% were from biomed.
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A similar amount from UoM this year as well. The biomed students are easily the largest block from undergrad, which is both good and bad
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A similar amount from UoM this year as well. The biomed students are easily the largest block from undergrad, which is both good and bad
The biomed students will always take out more spots than students from any other degree because if they didn't then it makes having a biomed degree in the first place redundant.
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There's no quota, so it's an interesting observation rather than an expected one.
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UniGames Soccer Final 2011
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Nuff Said.