ATAR Notes: Forum
VCE Stuff => VCE Science => VCE Mathematics/Science/Technology => VCE Subjects + Help => VCE Chemistry => Topic started by: thushan on August 31, 2012, 08:01:15 pm
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Mao's just emailed me asking for the format of next year's study guide. I'd like to put it to the floor as to what the preferred format should be.
As you may know, there is no midyear next year, meaning that I have to combine my Unit 3 and 4 books into one contraption. However, this is not practical because a 700-page monolith would be...impossible to write on or carry for that matter. We have to split it into two books. The question is - how?
One proposal is to split the books into Basic and Advanced, with Basic being easy tests and easy exams, looking at basic skills and techniques, very basic application, and recall of information, and Advanced, looking at more application of the skills and more complex understanding and problem solving. The Basic book will have about 12 tests and 2 x 2.5 hour exams and the Advanced book will have about 12 tests, a 2.5 hour exam, and a challenge 3 hour exam.
Another proposal is to split the book into a Test book and an Exam book. My main worry for this is because one is more content-heavy than the other, so one book may be a little too big.
Do you like either of these proposals, or would you like to suggest another?
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I like the Basic and Advanced books, will cater for a larger target audience too (weaker and high achieving students) :)
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Basic and Advanced books Thush.
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How basic is basic? Does that mean around the level of the easier VCAA questions / questions designed to teach you the main concepts? I assume those 2.5 hour exams would be VCAA-level content.
Would the basic book skip out on a few of those challenging questions, in favour of placing those over to the Advanced book?
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How basic is basic? Does that mean around the level of the easier VCAA questions / questions designed to teach you the main concepts? I assume those 2.5 hour exams would be VCAA-level content.
Would the basic book skip out on a few of those challenging questions, in favour of placing those over to the Advanced book?
The basic book will be below VCAA standard to about easy VCAA-standard. Yup, the hard questions will be put in the Advanced book. And the Advanced book will from about hard VCAA-standard to beyond VCAA standard (beyond VCAA standard will only be on the last 3 hour exam, as our signature challenge exam).
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Another issue you'll have to start thinking about as well is whether they'll have integrated questions. i.e. questions which will span across Unit 3 and Unit 4 concepts or that they'll pull a "Physics" type exam and split it up into Units.
In regards to which format is better, well, it's a tough one to call.
I like the Basic and Advanced books, will cater for a larger target audience too (weaker and high achieving students) :)
The issue with doing this is that you'll be cannibalising your own sales, because few would buy both the Basic and Advanced books. So financially, it will be less viable. But I've yet to think of a format for my own 2013 Physics book, so I'll let you know if I do think of something, because we'll probably have to keep our books reasonably consistent.
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Another issue you'll have to start thinking about as well is whether they'll have integrated questions. i.e. questions which will span across Unit 3 and Unit 4 concepts or that they'll pull a "Physics" type exam and split it up into Units.
In regards to which format is better, well, it's a tough one to call.
I like the Basic and Advanced books, will cater for a larger target audience too (weaker and high achieving students) :)
The issue with doing this is that you'll be cannibalising your own sales, because few would buy both the Basic and Advanced books. So financially, it will be less viable. But I've yet to think of a format for my own 2013 Physics book, so I'll let you know if I do think of something, because we'll probably have to keep our books reasonably consistent.
I'd beg to differ for the Basic and Advanced books - because people will want as much prep material as possible. They can start off with the basic book, and then move into the Advanced book. Either way, we will be cannibalising our own sales.
And btw - I'm writing new integrated questions too.
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The basic book will be below VCAA standard to about easy VCAA-standard. Yup, the hard questions will be put in the Advanced book. And the Advanced book will from about hard VCAA-standard to beyond VCAA standard (beyond VCAA standard will only be on the last 3 hour exam, as our signature challenge exam).
Actually, I dont like the idea of basic book with "below VCAA standard" because we all have the same VCAA exams, so we want to do prac questions similar standard with VCAA. You may separate but I think most of people will buy the advanced rather than basic one.
Btw, if you worry that the book is too thick, I suggest you can cut some answer's space. Its sometimes too much unnecessary space.
Or you can put the detail solution in CD. If we read the model answer at the back of the book and dont understand about it much, we can open the CD and see for full details of explanation.
Anyway, its just my opinion though
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I know, either way we'll be cannibalising our own sales, which is bad, but I know that personally, if there was a "SACs" book and an "Exam" book I would buy both - one earlier on and one maybe later on in the year. However, if it was just a Basic and Advanced, I would probably just aim for the Advanced and skip over the basic - but I do agree that this format opens it up to a larger audience, though.
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I would probably just aim for the Advanced and skip over the basic - but I do agree that this format opens it up to a larger audience, though.
That's because you are a high achieving student. Most are not.
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The basic book will be below VCAA standard to about easy VCAA-standard. Yup, the hard questions will be put in the Advanced book. And the Advanced book will from about hard VCAA-standard to beyond VCAA standard (beyond VCAA standard will only be on the last 3 hour exam, as our signature challenge exam).
Actually, I dont like the idea of basic book with "below VCAA standard" because we all have the same VCAA exams, so we want to do prac questions similar standard with VCAA. You may separate but I think most of people will buy the advanced rather than basic one.
Btw, if you worry that the book is too thick, I suggest you can cut some answer's space. Its sometimes too much unnecessary space.
Or you can put the detail solution in CD. If we read the model answer at the back of the book and dont understand about it much, we can open the CD and see for full details of explanation.
Anyway, its just my opinion though
Jenny, I see where you are coming from, but remember that when you are first trying to learn the content, you want to be able to do questions that hone your skills in solving simple questions first. It's a step by step process. I can't chuck problem solving questions right from the word go when you guys are still learning the content and getting the ideas and concepts in your head. That's what the Basic book is for. Once you've mastered the concepts and the Basic book is done, you can then go for the Advanced book questions.
Btw the Basic book will have VCAA-standard questions, but on the easy side. But the easier tests on the Basic book will be below VCAA standard, to warm the students, who are still learning, onto using their skills to do simple problems.
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I would probably just aim for the Advanced and skip over the basic - but I do agree that this format opens it up to a larger audience, though.
That's because you are a high achieving student. Most are not.
Not only that, but I bet that you'd want to have a go at the Basic questions too first - looking back, it's hard to think that once you were not able to solve the simple chem problems yourself. When I first learnt chem, I had to solve easy problems too first, because I was still learning the concept. Everyone goes through it.
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For the tests in the book, I think it's fine to target the "easy" stuff in order to teach the concepts. I think the practice exams are a different matter though.
The main concern I have is that, especially for the basic book, would be to keep those standard 2.5 hour exams at VCAA level, i.e. not 100% 'easy VCAA-level' but also have that reasonably even mix of difficulty that VCAA exams tend to have with their questions (and that one or two challenging questions that VCAA will have in nearly every exam).
Maybe I've misinterpreted things a bit (especially with being unsure on how much "easy VCAA-level" actually covers), but I think the value of the 'basic' book would drop reasonably if the two practice exams were biased too much towards the easy end of the things. A practice exam that's too easy wouldn't really be helpful to any chemistry student, regardless of what level they are at.
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I know - but you have to consider the time when people are getting into Exam prep books - like I fully agree with you, we all start from scratch and work our way up, but if you're producing an "Exam Study Guide" that is at a basic level, that is a contradiction of some sorts - because by that stage, most will already be up to a higher or more "advanced" stage (at least at VCAA standard or beyond). Like, I would buy a basic level book at the START of the year, but not right before exams - so maybe the basic book should focus more on SACs rather than exams?
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I think SACs and Exams is better than Basic and Advanced. You can make the SAC book essentially a basic book even with a few difficult problems thrown in here and there, but the marketing is much easier than selling two different exam booklets
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I think SACs and Exams is better than Basic and Advanced. You can make the SAC book essentially a basic book even with a few difficult problems thrown in here and there, but the marketing is much easier than selling two different exam booklets
I think its a great idea :)
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How can you write a book on chem SACs? Each school has different ways of writing SACs (for example in MHS some SACs use data that was collected during a previous series of pracs, whilst others are tests, etc.). Or will these just be the tests?
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For the tests in the book, I think it's fine to target the "easy" stuff in order to teach the concepts. I think the practice exams are a different matter though.
The main concern I have is that, especially for the basic book, would be to keep those standard 2.5 hour exams at VCAA level, i.e. not 100% 'easy VCAA-level' but also have that reasonably even mix of difficulty that VCAA exams tend to have with their questions (and that one or two challenging questions that VCAA will have in nearly every exam).
Maybe I've misinterpreted things a bit (especially with being unsure on how much "easy VCAA-level" actually covers), but I think the value of the 'basic' book would drop reasonably if the two practice exams were biased too much towards the easy end of the things. A practice exam that's too easy wouldn't really be helpful to any chemistry student, regardless of what level they are at.
Good point there. I may step it up a notch in the practice exams, but only slightly, so that the student can warm up to trying a couple of more pedestrian, easier trial exams. Exam 1 will be easy-VCAA level, with a couple of medium questions in it. Something like the difficulty of a chem paper with an A+ cut of 90%. Exam 2 will be easy-medium VCAA level, with a couple of medium-hard questions in it, about the difficulty of an A+ 87-88% cutoff.
In the Advanced book, Exam 1 will probably be about VCAA Unit 4 2010 (A+ cut 81%) level, and Exam 2 will be your well-known challenge exam. Actually, now that I think about it, I might include an extra exam in the Advanced book.
And Paul - it's good to start with relatively easy exams as a start, as a first exam.
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I think SACs and Exams is better than Basic and Advanced. You can make the SAC book essentially a basic book even with a few difficult problems thrown in here and there, but the marketing is much easier than selling two different exam booklets
Good point there, I'll have a think and discuss it with Mao.
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How can you write a book on chem SACs? Each school has different ways of writing SACs (for example in MHS some SACs use data that was collected during a previous series of pracs, whilst others are tests, etc.). Or will these just be the tests?
You can do just tests, you can invent data and have them analyze it etc.
The only thing you couldn't do would be actual physical labwork and you could probably have questions about "list the key steps in performing a titration. what important difference for a back titration" etc.
I just think from a marketing standpoint it's much easier, whilst delivering a fairly similar end product
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How can you write a book on chem SACs? Each school has different ways of writing SACs (for example in MHS some SACs use data that was collected during a previous series of pracs, whilst others are tests, etc.)? Or will these just be the tests?
For SACs booklet, it may contain separated topics/ areas of study
It just for preparation or practice before the SACs, of course, it cant be the same as real SACs at your school
For exam booklet, the topics can be mixed altogether for exam preparation with increasing the difficulty
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1 notes
1 questions?
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How can you write a book on chem SACs? Each school has different ways of writing SACs (for example in MHS some SACs use data that was collected during a previous series of pracs, whilst others are tests, etc.). Or will these just be the tests?
You can do just tests, you can invent data and have them analyze it etc.
The only thing you couldn't do would be actual physical labwork and you could probably have questions about "list the key steps in performing a titration. what important difference for a back titration" etc.
I just think from a marketing standpoint it's much easier, whilst delivering a fairly similar end product
I'm a TAD nervous about a Tests/Exams split, I get the feeling that people may not bother buying a book with only tests in it...
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How can you write a book on chem SACs? Each school has different ways of writing SACs (for example in MHS some SACs use data that was collected during a previous series of pracs, whilst others are tests, etc.). Or will these just be the tests?
You can do just tests, you can invent data and have them analyze it etc.
The only thing you couldn't do would be actual physical labwork and you could probably have questions about "list the key steps in performing a titration. what important difference for a back titration" etc.
I just think from a marketing standpoint it's much easier, whilst delivering a fairly similar end product
I'm a TAD nervous about a Tests/Exams split, I get the feeling that people may not bother buying a book with only tests in it...
If its by you, who wouldn't buy it?
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How can you write a book on chem SACs? Each school has different ways of writing SACs (for example in MHS some SACs use data that was collected during a previous series of pracs, whilst others are tests, etc.). Or will these just be the tests?
You can do just tests, you can invent data and have them analyze it etc.
The only thing you couldn't do would be actual physical labwork and you could probably have questions about "list the key steps in performing a titration. what important difference for a back titration" etc.
I just think from a marketing standpoint it's much easier, whilst delivering a fairly similar end product
I'm a TAD nervous about a Tests/Exams split, I get the feeling that people may not bother buying a book with only tests in it...
If its by you, who wouldn't buy it?
Aw that's nice of you!
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1 notes
1 questions?
It doesn't solve the issue of the question book being big.
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I reckon make Book 1 with questions based on AOS (like checkpoints), and of an easy/simple to average to progressively harder questions, so that we have something to refer to when studying for our own SACS. Maybe you could also include simple tips and tricks along the way, and advice from you to the students on things we should do, etc.
The other book should be exams, as you said, but these can range (in order of difficulty) from average to hard and eventually challenging (or whatever you want) for us to prepare for exams, as by this stage, the questions from Book 1 should have laid a foundation for the basic questions, if you get what I mean. For these exams, you could also indicate the cutoff for an A+, etc. so students are aware of what they should be getting if they want a really good study score, etc. You could also include final tips before the exams, how early we should be preparing, etc. (a little section with your personal advice/tips).
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I would certainly not buy your Chemistry books next year if any of these suggestions were to go ahead. Here's a nice, simple solution: A separate, comprehensive book for Unit 3 and Unit 4. Then, people will be less likely to just buy one book and you will actually cover the depth of the study design. As to whether or not questions will contain elements from both Units - we can only wait and see what will occur. I think it would be quite risky to blend questions, especially if it does not occur in the exam. If people know their content from each Unit quite well, I do not see why they could not execute the exam to a high standard - regardless of the format.
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I would certainly not buy your Chemistry books next year if any of these suggestions were to go ahead. Here's a nice, simple solution: A separate, comprehensive book for Unit 3 and Unit 4. Then, people will be less likely to just buy one book and you will actually cover the depth of the study design. As to whether or not questions will contain elements from both Units - we can only wait and see what will occur. I think it would be quite risky to blend questions, especially if it does not occur in the exam. If people know their content from each Unit quite well, I do not see why they could not execute the exam to a high standard - regardless of the format.
Woah, a little harsh there mate. No need for that. Your suggestion was plausible, but no need to be too denigrating.
Depth of study design will be met anyway. I'm not removing content. I'm simply rearranging it. If anything, I'm adding extra content.
Plus, we're talking about a 2.5 hour science exam here - people do need a chance to learn how to sit 2.5 hour exams. There's no point reselling this year's books with its 1.5 hour exams because students need to get used to the 2.5 hour format. It's not all about content, its also exam technique.
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Agree with a test book for practising during the year progressively with each AoS, and an exam book for practising for the end of year exam. Splitting by difficulty segregates the market a bit, with most people likely to only buy one or the other. It'll also make the books have less utility since they'll have to save it up until they learn the required AoS's.
I would certainly not buy your Chemistry books next year if any of these suggestions were to go ahead.
What's your actual concern regarding these suggestions? You've outright dismissed them without stating any reasons.
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Thushan I reckon one book for Notes + a short test after each topic, alongside a book for just practice exams + detailed solutions (about 8-12 depending on length, since they are 2.5 hour exams now 10 should probably be sufficient), would be good.
You could make the notes book unit 3 and unit 4 combined, with either a short 30-40 minute test after each topic with both SA and MC, ie. One test for chromotography, one for biochemistry etc, or a longer test/"mini exam" after each Area of Study. The answers and solutions don't have to be detailed due to the nature of notes, as those alone should suffice.
Then with the exam booklet, you'd have your exams in order of difficulty, all with the new 2.5 hour format, with detailed solutions as usual.
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Thushan I reckon one book for Notes + a short test after each topic, alongside a book for just practice exams + detailed solutions (about 8-12 depending on length, since they are 2.5 hour exams now 10 should probably be sufficient), would be good.
You could make the notes book unit 3 and unit 4 combined, with either a short 30-40 minute test after each topic with both SA and MC, ie. One test for chromotography, one for biochemistry etc, or a longer test/"mini exam" after each Area of Study. The answers and solutions don't have to be detailed due to the nature of notes, as those alone should suffice.
Then with the exam booklet, you'd have your exams in order of difficulty, all with the new 2.5 hour format, with detailed solutions as usual.
Not a bad idea, but the problem is that the detailed solutions are meant to be question specific - so the student doesn't have to extrapolate information from the notes - plus it'd be annoying to have to refer to the notes book to interpret the detailed solution.
So it's a toss up between Basic/Advanced and Tests/Exams.
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So it's a toss up between Basic/Advanced and Tests/Exams.
Maybe you should get some sort of poll happening so people can vote on it
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So it's a toss up between Basic/Advanced and Tests/Exams.
Maybe you should get some sort of poll happening so people can vote on it
Now there's an idea. Poll up!
While everyone's here - there's a tute in 10 minutes :) Skype convo opened.
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I would certainly not buy your Chemistry books next year if any of these suggestions were to go ahead.
What's your actual concern regarding these suggestions? You've outright dismissed them without stating any reasons.
Fair enough, I was a bit harsh and I didn't outline any reasons. I really didn't mean to come across as mean and I'm very sorry that I didn't consider my position more carefully. I'm going to delete my other post right away, because it wasn't called for.
I just think a lot of these ideas are getting a bit fiddly and that's probably why I wouldn't buy them. When I buy a book, I just want it to be simple and easy to use. I have no problems as long as the idea isn't too conflicted. :)
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I would certainly not buy your Chemistry books next year if any of these suggestions were to go ahead.
What's your actual concern regarding these suggestions? You've outright dismissed them without stating any reasons.
Fair enough, I was a bit harsh and I didn't outline any reasons. I really didn't mean to come across as mean and I'm very sorry that I didn't consider my position more carefully. I'm going to delete my other post right away, because it wasn't called for.
I just think a lot of these ideas are getting a bit fiddly and that's probably why I wouldn't buy them. When I buy a book, I just want it to be simple and easy to use. I have no problems as long as the idea isn't too conflicted. :)
No worries mate.
Check my original idea about Basic + Advanced and Tests + Exams. Neither of those are fiddly; they're quite simple structures.
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Thushan, would you like to propose the solution which I talked to you about yesterday? I reckon it'll work quite well!
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Thushan, would you like to propose the solution which I talked to you about yesterday? I reckon it'll work quite well!
Yeah, I quite like that idea!
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I'm going to delete my other post right away, because it wasn't called for.
Please don't, it makes half the thread incomprehensible if that happens =.= Just because the post is a little in the -ve doesn't mean you should delete it at the expense of the flow of the thread (it also looks rather childish).
Restored you post (I removed my -1 as you've admitted to being overly harsh) so the thread makes sense again.
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I would probably just aim for the Advanced and skip over the basic - but I do agree that this format opens it up to a larger audience, though.
That's because you are a high achieving student. Most are not.
My feeling is that just about everyone who is keen enough to buy these books is going to be towards the upper end of ability.
Surely there are not many people who are really enthusiastic about a subject (especially chem) who are really not very good at it; and so surely then there wouldn't be very many people who would buy the 'Basic' book.
For this reason, I think the tests/exams layout would be a better model
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I would probably just aim for the Advanced and skip over the basic - but I do agree that this format opens it up to a larger audience, though.
That's because you are a high achieving student. Most are not.
My feeling is that just about everyone who is keen enough to buy these books is going to be towards the upper end of ability.
Surely there are not many people who are really enthusiastic about a subject (especially chem) who are really not very good at it; and so surely then there wouldn't be very many people who would buy the 'Basic' book.
For this reason, I think the tests/exams layout would be a better model
Hmm. Fair point. However, even if they are high achieving students, they need to start off with basic problems to get good at the basic concepts and problems, so they can do those problems faster. Then only should they tackle the harder problems - they'd be able to tackle them better because their basic foundations are more solid - this is why I'm more of a fan of the Basic/Advanced book.
However, looking at the responses, I think it seems a good idea (I won't make a final decision JUST yet) to write a Topic Test Book and an Exam Book, with all of the tests being graded in order of difficulty. The exams will also be graded in difficulty, except Exam 1 will of course be slightly harder than Test 1, but on the easy VCAA, or a TAD easier (to get the students warmed up to exam mode) than VCAA.
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Thushan, would you like to propose the solution which I talked to you about yesterday? I reckon it'll work quite well!
Yeah, I quite like that idea!
What was the idea that you and Paul discussed? :P
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Thushan, would you like to propose the solution which I talked to you about yesterday? I reckon it'll work quite well!
Yeah, I quite like that idea!
What was the idea that you and Paul discussed? :P
Ask Paul.
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OK - I'm going with a TEST book and an EXAM book. Decision made.
Going to make difficulty levels more explicit in the next book:
Level 1 = Introductory, below VCAA standard. Purpose is to grasp basic concept and practice solving simple calculations very quickly. Basic recall of information.
Level 2 = Easy VCAA standard. More meaty problems, but somewhat multi-step.
Level 3 = Medium VCAA standard. Yet more meaty, multi-step problems.
Level 4 = Hard VCAA standard. Complex problems, requires deep understanding.
Level 5 = Extremely hard, potentially beyond VCAA standard (in terms of thinking, not content). Requires a very instinctive understanding and strong problem solving skills. THIS WILL BE EXPLICITLY STATED IN THE BOOK.
There will be about 20-25 tests in the test book, graded in order of difficulty from Level 1 to Level 4.
There will be 3 2.5 hour exams, graded in order of difficulty from Level 2 to Level 4, and Exam 4 will be about 3 hours and will be Level 5 (this will be the Challenge paper).
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Well, after reading this and deliberating about how to set out my physics book, I've decided to go with my idea (which I hinted at earlier). My book will come in two volumes. I will price it at around $40 or $45 (to be decided after consultation with other authors and the publisher...etc.) and when you make a purchase, you will be purchasing both volumes.
Volume 1 will contain all the questions and Model Solutions
Volume 2 will contain all the detailed solutions
So instead of having to buy two separate books, you can just buy one single pack - I also think it's good because it's more convenient for people and it's more economical because you will pay a lower price than the price for 2 books.
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Volume 1 will contain all the questions and Model Solutions
Volume 2 will contain all the detailed solutions
If it isn't too expensive, it doesn't seem all that bad considering that it's two books and covering the entire course (and also assuming that goes quite in-depth). These are probably minor details that you'd probably be thinking about later, but I think two things that would be neat are:
If the detailed solutions book were, to a small extent, readable on their own (e.g. reading the solutions as a set of notes / textbook almost). I haven't actually seen your physics book yet, so I'm not sure if you already did this, but I think you could cater for that if you just had a sentence at the start of each solution which noted which topic / concept it was assessing. While it's probably not a good idea to read the answers beforehand, but it would allow the second book to be used in a slightly different manner once you've already done the questions.
Direct page references in the model solutions to the detailed solutions for the question would make the books less 'fiddly', in terms of having to find where in the other book the answers are. e.g.
Model Solution
Detailed solutions can be found in Vol-II, Page-132
2a. solution
2b solution
Detailed solutions can be found in Vol-II, Page-133
2c.
3a.