ATAR Notes: Forum
Uni Stuff => Universities - Victoria => University of Melbourne => Topic started by: ~T on December 22, 2013, 10:34:30 pm
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I'm looking at going to UniMelb next year to do a Bachelor of Science, majoring in Mathematics and Statistics, with lots of breadth in Economics/Finance. These Commerce areas are the fields that I hope to go into eventually, but I am primarily seeking the mathematical background (which is why I want to do Science). I have a couple of questions about course structure.
The handbook mentions the "Diversity of Level 1 science study" requirements: you need to complete subjects from at least two areas of study, and you can only do a maximum of three subjects in each area of study. Seeing as this is only specified for Level 1, are there any restrictions on Level 2 and 3 study? Looking at any of the Sample Course Plans for various majors, it seems that of the ~6 Science subjects per year, they are still from 2 or more areas of study in each example; however, could I take 6 mathematics subjects in year 2 and year 3?
I don't think I would go to such extremes, but I would want to do more than shown in the Sample Course Plans as I want to go into Commerce eventually, and most Science areas (other than mathematics) are not of any particular interest.
Thanks in advance.
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I've never heard of them requiring diversity for level 2 and 3 subjects, so I think not.
Instead, enforcing some kind of diversity rule for higher level subjects would be counterproductive, as level 2 and 3 subjects are more focused on guiding you towards a particular major instead of a mash of subjects from different topic areas. Taking that away just goes against the whole major idea.
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There are various areas of mathematics that you can pursue, so you'll need some diversity in your second year subjects to keep those options open, particularly if you're considering mathematical physics. It's good to keep your options open and do different things, you never know what you may like :)
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Always make your own course plan. That way it'll be tailored to the subjects you want to do, when you want to do them. To answer your question, you can take as many mathematics subjects as you would like in Year 2 and Year 3, go nuts! You can only take 3 Level 1 mathematics subjects though in first year.
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Great, thank you all!
I have another query that I have come across while constructing a course plan, so it seems somewhat related. I'm looking at ACTL20001/2 Financial Mathematics 1/2 because of my aforementioned interests. However, the handbook states that it is only available as breadth in Arts, Environments and Music. Does this mean I cannot do it in a Science degree, or that I am able to do it but it will count towards my "science" electives and not breadth? I only ask because I figured it was a Commerce subject so thought it wouldn't count...
Thanks again
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Nope, it's basically a mathematics subject so you're not allowed to do it as a Science breadth.
BTW, you could always do a Commerce degree with a Diploma of Mathematics, but that means you have to extend your degree to 3.5 years, or overload numerous semesters.
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BTW, you could always do a Commerce degree with a Diploma of Mathematics, but that means you have to extend your degree to 3.5 years, or overload numerous semesters.
Or do summer semester :)
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Nope, it's basically a mathematics subject so you're not allowed to do it as a Science breadth.
BTW, you could always do a Commerce degree with a Diploma of Mathematics, but that means you have to extend your degree to 3.5 years, or overload numerous semesters.
I had originally planned on this, but everyone I have talked to has said that I need the mathematical background first and foremost if I want to leave research open, and the diploma would not be an extensive/rigorous enough path (plus I already want to do waaay too many mathematics subjects to fit into the degree, let alone if it was only the diploma). Doing Science still keeps postgraduate finance/economics open as well, which is nice.
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Doing Science still keeps postgraduate finance/economics open as well, which is nice.
That's the beauty of UniMelb <3
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...and one last question: given my aforementioned plans and interests in the world of economics/finance, and also my scores attained this year, do you think the university would be at all flexible in allowing me to do more than 6 breadth over the entirety of my degree? I will contact them anyway, but I just thought I may as well ask here; perhaps some of you have heard of others attempting to do so?
Thanks
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No, six is the maximum, sorry.
There will be no exceptions! And you can't add extra subjects overall either, as your CSP is for 300 points and no more. Commonwealth don't support no leisure study.
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...and one last question: given my aforementioned plans and interests in the world of economics/finance, and also my scores attained this year, do you think the university would be at all flexible in allowing me to do more than 6 breadth over the entirety of my degree? I will contact them anyway, but I just thought I may as well ask here; perhaps some of you have heard of others attempting to do so?
Thanks
You can pay to do extra subjects, but as simpak suggested they're not so keen on budging for anything...
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Plus your ATAR only matters to get into the course and aside from giving you guaranteed entry to more courses it can't give you benefits during the current course.
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Plus your ATAR only matters to get into the course and aside from giving you guaranteed entry to more courses it can't give you benefits during the current course.
Yeah, sorry if I came across that way. I didn't mean the score itself, in fact I think the whole 99.90+ thing is pretty overhyped. All I meant was to ask if the Uni is flexible at all for ANY student showing promise, not just in Year 12, if that makes sense.
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The only way you can alter the breadth numbers is if you can prove to the university that your selected majors (WITHIN the faculty your degree is being issued from) require extra breadth subjects (or need breadth subjects taken out and replaced by faculty subjects) - in order to complete those majors.
For example, I wanted to do an Econ/Accounting Major for my B.Comm and needed to drop a breadth slot for a core subject; the student centre manually entered it for me, no problem.
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Wait...is that a double major? I didn't think that UoM would give leeway for double major students.
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Yeah, Would kinda be stupid for Melb. if can't accommodate a student who wants to complete an econ/accounting dbl because of their breadth system. Although I'm probably only 1 of maybe 10 students stupid enough to go for the combo.
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Hmm. Interesting. That could potentially open up more options for me then if I plan on doing a physics/chemistry double.
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That major double is probably one of the closest to impossible you could do with adequate space :(
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Be aware that it may be faculty specific. Different faculties may have different rules. Best to ask your student centre first.
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That major double is probably one of the closest to impossible you could do with adequate space :(
Remember though that I have exemptions from physics and chemistry first years and a free maths diploma to dump maths subjects into
Be aware that it may be faculty specific. Different faculties may have different rules. Best to ask your student centre first.
Yeah, I will. But the science centre isn't helpful; they keep telling me to wait until I actually enrol in the course before asking questions. They're not helping.
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They don't even recognise double majors though, do they?
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They don't even recognise double majors though, do they?
Not officially no, which sort of sucks. But it's nice to learn a wider range of knowledge.
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If you *actually* want more recognised qualifications, you can do some graduate diplomas after finishing your initial degree. Most people I've talked to when inquiring about doing one in chemistry say that doing more than one is kind of silly, but it's a theoretical option I thought I should mention :P
And yes, I forgot you have all those exemptions :s The major sounds very possible, then (given a lot of physics prereqs are maths subjects and that you have four subjects already completed)! Go check out the handbook and see how it all fits together? I did that when I was still thinking of doing my own double major and it really helps to have it all tabled out when you're thinking about things.
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Yeah, but I don't want to spend TOO much time at uni.
I myself have a course query here. I've researched my study plan, and so far it looks like this. Breadths not included.
First year: 2 bio level 1, 3 chem level 2, 2 maths level 1
Second year: 3 physics level 2, 3 maths level 2, 4 chem level 3 (yep this year i'll need to overload twice)
Third year: 4 physics level 3, 3 maths level 3
Credit points isn't going to be a problem; I just have to cross-credit the right amount of maths subjects and I'll be fine
So, that accounts for the 8 subjects for the maths diploma and I fulfill the requirements for both majors (not that both will appear though; can I try and get the uni to put both on?). Problem is: how do I fit breadth? I want to do two breadths over summer semesters, so then I could fit the last two in first and third year, but the subject handbook doesn't give many appealing breadths. Otherwise, I'll have to just not overload and do another semester (I have 28 subjects in the above plan). But I want to do Honours, and apparently those don't really start mid-year, so I'd probably end up cross-crediting less subjects and do some more subjects for the remainder of the fourth year. I don't want to do a five year undergrad plus honours though...
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First year: 2 bio level 1, 3 chem level 2, 2 maths level 1
Second year: 3 physics level 2, 3 maths level 2, 4 chem level 3 (yep this year i'll need to overload twice)
Third year: 4 physics level 3, 3 maths level 3
Only 50 points at Level 1? How do you plan on getting away with this bit of bludging?
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Only 50 points at Level 1? How do you plan on getting away with this bit of bludging?
I presume his breadth will be Level 1. Looks fine to me.
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If I really have to, I'll just credit my UMEP physics as well; 25 more points of level 1
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I myself have a course query here. I've researched my study plan, and so far it looks like this. Breadths not included.
First year: 2 bio level 1, 3 chem level 2, 2 maths level 1
Second year: 3 physics level 2, 3 maths level 2, 4 chem level 3 (yep this year i'll need to overload twice)
Third year: 4 physics level 3, 3 maths level 3
Your enthusiasm is great and you're clearly a far more committed student than I'll ever be, but nonetheless, you may want to slow down a bit! That's a crazy study plan that even the very best of us would struggle with. Taking your time and extending things out is not a bad thing. Also worth mentioning is the fact that you will end up with three majors out of that, not two.
There are a few summer breadths that lump together a couple of subjects in one. Though many of the first and second year maths and chem subjects you can also do during summer.
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I presume his breadth will be Level 1. Looks fine to me.
Handbook says you need 62.5 points of science Level 1
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Yeah, I will. But the science centre isn't helpful; they keep telling me to wait until I actually enrol in the course before asking questions. They're not helping.
I have to say this is somewhat disappointing on the part of the university/science centre. During semester I'd understand if they asked you not to make inquiries, but given that it's the break is a little disconcerting that they're turning away eager future students with legitimate questions. Try calling 13 MELB.
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Handbook says you need 62.5 points of science Level 1
I have UMEP physics which counts as physics 1&2
Your enthusiasm is great and you're clearly a far more committed student than I'll ever be, but nonetheless, you may want to slow down a bit! That's a crazy study plan that even the very best of us would struggle with. Taking your time and extending things out is not a bad thing. Also worth mentioning is the fact that you will end up with three majors out of that, not two.
There are a few summer breadths that lump together a couple of subjects in one. Though many of the first and second year maths and chem subjects you can also do during summer.
Well...if you count a diploma as a major, it would be three then. I know it sounds crazy, but really, how is it crazy? If I get breadths sorted I only have to overload in one year, which surely isn't so bad?
Although then there's the thing about doing chemistry subjects in an earlier year. That's what I consider to be the craziest part.
But I really don't want to extend things out...especially if I don't think I need to
I have to say this is somewhat disappointing on the part of the university/science centre. During semester I'd understand if they asked you not to make inquiries, but given that it's the break is a little disconcerting that they're turning away eager future students. Try calling 13 MELB.
What's the difference between calling them and asking the student centre?
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What t-rav said is probably worth heeding; people who are absolutely amazing academically in highschool and work hard all the time occasionally crash in uni just because they attack things head-on with far too much vigour and burn out after a few weeks; I have a friend who made that mistake during first semester but managed to come back up to the top by pacing themselves throughout semester two. You have time and flexibility, so just take it one step at a time. You might even find you like uni enough to stay for a full extra year ;)
Trying to finish this degree with the diploma in three years and with three majors really sounds like complete hell, and the only real disadvantage of spending an extra year at uni to get it all done is that you don't graduate with the majority of your friends. Additionally, you may discover your interests change quite a lot once you get started (which would throw out your carefully set plans); perhaps you'll develop a burning passion for botany!
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That and managing four subjects is extremely difficult. Obviously you've got experience with UMEP, and that will be valuable, but, you haven't had all of Uni together. It's very different to year 12 and great ATAR doesn't mean great uni results (as I'm sure you'd know!). I think Levi above is actually a pretty good example of that and sadly, some of the people I know in Biomed are too (though other way round)!
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Hmm I don't think his study plan is that bizarre, to be honest. He's only overloading for two semesters during second year, which gives him his first year to figure out what university study is like before taking on a greater load.
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Yeah, but I don't want to spend TOO much time at uni.
I myself have a course query here. I've researched my study plan, and so far it looks like this. Breadths not included.
First year: 2 bio level 1, 3 chem level 2, 2 maths level 1
Second year: 3 physics level 2, 3 maths level 2, 4 chem level 3 (yep this year i'll need to overload twice)
Third year: 4 physics level 3, 3 maths level 3
Credit points isn't going to be a problem; I just have to cross-credit the right amount of maths subjects and I'll be fine
So, that accounts for the 8 subjects for the maths diploma and I fulfill the requirements for both majors (not that both will appear though; can I try and get the uni to put both on?). Problem is: how do I fit breadth? I want to do two breadths over summer semesters, so then I could fit the last two in first and third year, but the subject handbook doesn't give many appealing breadths. Otherwise, I'll have to just not overload and do another semester (I have 28 subjects in the above plan). But I want to do Honours, and apparently those don't really start mid-year, so I'd probably end up cross-crediting less subjects and do some more subjects for the remainder of the fourth year. I don't want to do a five year undergrad plus honours though...
They aren't going to give you an exemption to not take breadths. That's the entire point of their degree structure. By letting one person not take breadths, they are going to have a flood of people saying 'they did it, why can't I'?
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Remember though that I have exemptions from physics and chemistry first years and a free maths diploma to dump maths subjects into
Yeah, I will. But the science centre isn't helpful; they keep telling me to wait until I actually enrol in the course before asking questions. They're not helping.
Sorry, disregard the above post, I didn't see the maths diplomas. Also, why do you have an exemption for Chemistry first year? You've only done VCE Chemistry. UMEP Physics counts for Physics 1 and 2 though, so you've got that going for you.
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Sorry, disregard the above post, I didn't see the maths diplomas. Also, why do you have an exemption for Chemistry first year? You've only done VCE Chemistry. UMEP Physics counts for Physics 1 and 2 though, so you've got that going for you.
I went in to UoM, sat the chemistry 1 and 2 exams and the director of first year studies was fine with me skipping chem 1 and 2.
Hmm I don't think his study plan is that bizarre, to be honest. He's only overloading for two semesters during second year, which gives him his first year to figure out what university study is like before taking on a greater load.
That's what I thought too. That said, I'll have three third years in second year with all maths and sciences
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I think that whilst overloading isn't the end of the world, planning to do it before you've even started uni is perhaps inadvisable.
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I think you should do it Nicholas, I wanna see what happens
(http://www.headingfortheexits.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/ExplodingHead.gif)
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^ Did you just use a 'Mars Attacks!' .gif. Did you really just do that.
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I went in to UoM, sat the chemistry 1 and 2 exams and the director of first year studies was fine with me skipping chem 1 and 2.
Haha. Even though you have a 99.95 atar, I wouldn't be surprised if you were to ever sit the gamsat just for the lulz.
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Why? I only have two bio subjects in my study plan and chances are, I won't be planning on increasing that to five. If so, I'd really need a fourth year of uni.
So, general consensus is that I should wait a year before planning? OK then.
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How did you go on the Chem 1 and 2 exams? I know that Chem 1 == VCE Chemistry (but harder) + 1/3 more stuff (IMO), but from my mates, Chem2 is an absolute biatch that you don't learn in VCE.
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Chem2 is an absolute biatch that you don't learn in VCE.
Biatch doesn't even begin to describe it.
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I didn't actually get my scores back; Dr Stephen Best just said that he's fine with removing Chemistry 1 and 2 as prerequisites for me.
Chemistry 2 was so much better than Chemistry 1! None of that ridiculous solid structure stuff...although I did mess up the Chemistry 2 exam in that I completely forgot the mer and fac isomerisms for a transition metal complex and I had no idea what to do in a particular reaction that somehow had 1-3-butadiene become but-2-ene. I do know that I dropped three marks combined on both multiple choices though.
Biatch doesn't even begin to describe it.
What really!?
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Chem 2 seems like a biatch, but if you realise the worth of the textbooks everything not named organic chemistry becomes 100% approachable. Organic chemistry was a bitch, but repetition made it fairly simple. On that basis I reckon nliu would be OK forgoing it; in the end I reckon I found Chem 1 harder (though Chem 2 had a way nastier exam this year and initially seemed unapproachable).
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I didn't actually get my scores back; Dr Stephen Best just said that he's fine with removing Chemistry 1 and 2 as prerequisites for me.
Chemistry 2 was so much better than Chemistry 1! None of that ridiculous solid structure stuff...although I did mess up the Chemistry 2 exam in that I completely forgot the mer and fac isomerisms for a transition metal complex and I had no idea what to do in a particular reaction that somehow had 1-3-butadiene become but-2-ene. I do know that I dropped three marks combined on both multiple choices though.
What really!?
Chem 2 seems like a biatch, but if you realise the worth of the textbooks everything not named organic chemistry becomes 100% approachable. Organic chemistry was a bitch, but repetition made it fairly simple. On that basis I reckon nliu would be OK forgoing it; in the end I reckon I found Chem 1 harder (though Chem 2 had a way nastier exam this year and initially seemed unapproachable).
To be fair, I did Chem for Biomed, but the content is essentially the same as 1 and 2 rolled in together. And also in the interests of transparency, I was absolutely terrible at Chem. Some people loved it, most people contemplated base jumping from the Westgate at the end. To each their own.
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Chem 2 seems like a biatch, but if you realise the worth of the textbooks everything not named organic chemistry becomes 100% approachable. Organic chemistry was a bitch, but repetition made it fairly simple. On that basis I reckon nliu would be OK forgoing it; in the end I reckon I found Chem 1 harder (though Chem 2 had a way nastier exam this year and initially seemed unapproachable).
Yeah...my first encounters with organic chemistry were...forgettable to say the least. All those different reaction mechanisms and conditions to memorise. Sigh. I think I found chem 2 harder as well, but most of the exam was doable. Just that damned organic question with the shifting of the double bonds...
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I think that whilst overloading isn't the end of the world, planning to do it before you've even started uni is perhaps inadvisable.
I don't think there's anything wrong with planning to do it. I think one just needs to be ready for their plans to change.
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Hang on OP. You just finished year 12 and you just rocked up and sat the Chem 1 & 2 exams? And passed well enough to be exempt?
As a 26 year old who had her first exposure to biology/chem/basically any science this year... I both have the utmost respect for and hate you.
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Hang on OP. You just finished year 12 and you just rocked up and sat the Chem 1 & 2 exams? And passed well enough to be exempt?
As a 26 year old who had her first exposure to biology/chem/basically any science this year... I both have the utmost respect for and hate you.
Hey, I spent the first week after my last official exam studying for that :P
And I'm not the OP. I just hijacked the thread xD
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For example, I wanted to do an Econ/Accounting Major for my B.Comm and needed to drop a breadth slot for a core subject; the student centre manually entered it for me, no problem.
they.let.you.WHAT.
dude. i begged the science student centre to remove one breadth for me to no avail. Q n Q
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they.let.you.WHAT.
dude. i begged the science student centre to remove one breadth for me to no avail. Q n Q
It really depends on who you talk to. Some of the admins are less tight than others. For example at the Arts and Music Student Centre there's this one guy who absolutely refuses to do special enrolments at the office - you have to request them online for him. However there's another who's happy to do them in person at her desk. So I always make sure to go on days when he's not there and she is.
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I also think it's because melb presented economics and accounting as an official major. Then forgot to take into account the ridiculous number of subjects you have to do as part of an "accredited" accounting degree. I also think they believed no-one was stupid enough to take on this combination. (They are literally at the opposite ends of the spectrum).