ATAR Notes: Forum
VCE Stuff => Victorian Education Discussion => Topic started by: Rod on January 20, 2014, 11:47:29 pm
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I just got my timetable, for methods and chemistry I got two new teachers so I'm not judging them just yet, but for my other three subjects I got extremely poor teachers. I had this post-apocalyptic scenario imagined before I went to check, and it happened! For physics (one of my favourite subjects) I got this guy who takes 30 minutes to set up, and spends the next hour attempting to do this useless experiments. I didn't even get one good teacher. And what happens if the two new teachers are crap as well? Fml
So my question is, will this affect me? I mean, I didn't even get a single good teacher (if I count the two new ones to be crap as well). VCAA says for each subject they require at least '150 hours of teaching', I won't be receiving this.
Thanks
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Can I get a SEAS category for this? LOL
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Can I get a SEAS category for this? LOL
Nah you can't get SEAS/derived study scores due to teacher problems (clearly stated on the application).
If you are genuinely concerned go talk to your coordinator. Get your parents involved if need be. But if you are only going by reputation/rumours of these 'bad teachers', perhaps give those teachers a shot first... (unless you had them in the past and know for sure that they are bad at teaching).
But to answer your question, for me personally teachers play a large role in my performance, especially in subjects where I lack motivation and having a good teacher is always an advantage..
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I give my English Language teacher full credit for my English Language study score. For sciences, it's possible to do well without much help from your teacher, but it'll be a lot of work.
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i agree with lzxnl. humanity subjects, the teacher matters quite a bit (especially subjects like english... they need to mark your millions of essays and show you where you went wrong and how to improve). science/maths subjects you can do on your own. i had a pathetic chemistry teacher, but i pretty much just photocopied ALL the notes from the other, AMAZING, chemistry teacher in our school! that's also something you can do... copy notes from the good teachers and even ask them for help if they allow it.
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Somewhat. But that is no excuse to not do well. Just because a teacher is of bad quality does not mean that you can't look for available resources and explanations from other resources (e.g. online tutorials/explanations, textbooks etc). Essentially a teacher is only part of your learning - true it's their job and their primary responsibility, however it's up to you how you handle your year.
Example: I found one of my teachers to be quite bad for Mathematics, but I did fine using tutorials and resources online and referring to textbooks (YouTube Tutorials work wonders).
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lol in terms of science/math subjects the teacher's ability to teach isn't what affects your study score, what does though is your determination.
I had this really really crap chem teacher, she would leave the room to buy coffee from macca's (lol) and change her shoes like every 20 minutes. Just find every possible resource availeble and study from them and you should be fine. I wouldn't be that worried about the new teachers though,they tend to be more 'engaging'.
Can I get a SEAS category for this? LOL
Nearly choked on my food when I read this!
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lol in terms of science/math subjects the teacher's ability to teach isn't what affects your study score, what does though is your determination.
I had this really really crap chem teacher, she would leave the room to buy coffee from macca's (lol) and change her shoes like every 20 minutes. Just find every possible resource availeble and study from them and you should be fine. I wouldn't be that worried about the new teachers though,they tend to be more 'engaging'.
Nearly choked on my food when I read this!
Hahaha I was being sarcastic !! :P
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I'm in the same situation...
I believe to an extent...yes. Mainly because you spent a huge portion of your time at school with teachers so having a really good teacher definitely does have an bearing on how well you do.. If a teacher doesn't utilise class time effectively, you can't just leave haha [I wish] so a lot of time that could've been used, has been wasted. Also I find that if teachers are not enthusiastic, that could really bore the students even if the subject is supposed to be enjoyable.
But don't let a 'bad' teacher deter you from achieving a high SS. I know many students who've been successful that have been in the same situation. It also comes down to personal commitment and hard work.
I'd suggest maybe trying to change classes?
If only there was SEAS category for that.
Good-luck.
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i agree with lzxnl. humanity subjects, the teacher matters quite a bit (especially subjects like english... they need to mark your millions of essays and show you where you went wrong and how to improve). science/maths subjects you can do on your own. i had a pathetic chemistry teacher, but i pretty much just photocopied ALL the notes from the other, AMAZING, chemistry teacher in our school! that's also something you can do... copy notes from the good teachers and even ask them for help if they allow it.
The asking other teachers thing is a good idea. In my experience it's perfectly acceptable to do this and teachers are fine with students wanting another explanation of something in other words other than their teachers. Keep in mind it's not a right for any extra time with teachers so you should thank them for their time and not go overboard with it. (all my opinion obviously).
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100x yes.
From personal experience (with Literature really), I had a 1/2 teacher who rarely came to classes and marked maybe one or two essays/SACs throughout the year. This year, however, I have a great teacher. He's already on top of emails and marking my passage analyses, which has already proven to be immensely beneficial. I've been getting an A average in my analyses, compared to the C average I had last year.
If your teacher proves to be holding you back, investing in a private tutor may be one of the smartest ways for you to get around this at 3/4 level.
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My coordinator told us during orientation that your SS is 30% your teacher and 70% you. So id definitely say it's possible to do well with a bad teacher
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My coordinator told us during orientation that your SS is 30% your teacher and 70% you. So id definitely say it's possible to do well with a bad teacher
thanks
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I scored pretty well in Biology and did it at a TAFE, with a teacher that wasn't too great. I think that if you can work around a bad teacher, whether its by asking questions on AN, attending tuition lectures, anything that'll help your overcome the fact that your teacher is crap, will help. For Further Maths, my teacher wasn't particularly good either. Working around these things rather than using it as an excuse to justify bad marks is the best imo. :)
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Hate to say it, but yes. And as mentioned above, this is more so the case in Humanities and English subjects where the effort put in by your teacher will determine the resources or advice given, the amount of feedback you get for your practice essays blah blah -> and potentially influence your SS.
While of course it's ultimately up to YOU how well you do, just think about how a shitty teacher might influence your performance:
- How inspired you are to work hard
- How much feedback you get to self-improve (so important in English)
- How long it takes for you to understand something (some teachers are terrible at explaining)
- It may influence how the rest of your students respond to the subject, possibly weakening your cohort (this was a MAJOR case at my school for one of our LOTE subjects)
- How many resources you get (while it's better to find things yourself and not be spoon-fed, I won't deny that having all these resources around was relieving and it made things slightly easier)
I also agree that you shouldn't use your teacher as a justification for your mark if you score "poorly", I think it really just is tough luck - you'll have to work that bit harder to sustain motivation and level yourself with the state. Try and get personal feedback nonetheless - I remember in Year 10 when I did chemistry (lol) I had a terrible teacher but after talking to her individually, she was crazy helpful. Don't give up yet :P
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Hate to say it, but yes. And as mentioned above, this is more so the case in Humanities and English subjects where the effort put in by your teacher will determine the resources or advice given, the amount of feedback you get for your practice essays blah blah -> and potentially influence your SS.
While of course it's ultimately up to YOU how well you do, just think about how a shitty teacher might influence your performance:
- How inspired you are to work hard
- How much feedback you get to self-improve (so important in English)
- How long it takes for you to understand something (some teachers are terrible at explaining)
- It may influence how the rest of your students respond to the subject, possibly weakening your cohort (this was a MAJOR case at my school for one of our LOTE subjects)
- How many resources you get (while it's better to find things yourself and not be spoon-fed, I won't deny that having all these resources around was relieving and it made things slightly easier)
I also agree that you shouldn't use your teacher as a justification for your mark if you score "poorly", I think it really just is tough luck - you'll have to work that bit harder to sustain motivation and level yourself with the state. Try and get personal feedback nonetheless - I remember in Year 10 when I did chemistry (lol) I had a terrible teacher but after talking to her individually, she was crazy helpful. Don't give up yet :P
Hi Youshine,
How are you? I thought selective schools have best teachers?
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I thought selective schools have best teachers?
Very common misconception. Not going to bother trying to convince AN *again* that this is the case (as we get a lot of hate for it etc etc) but take my word for it.
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Very common misconception. Not going to bother trying to convince AN *again* that this is the case (as we get a lot of hate for it etc etc) but take my word for it.
Wow.....thanks for clarifying this.......
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Hate to say it, but yes. And as mentioned above, this is more so the case in Humanities and English subjects where the effort put in by your teacher will determine the resources or advice given, the amount of feedback you get for your practice essays blah blah -> and potentially influence your SS.
OMG so true. Its like on my Biology exam statement of marks, I scored 7/8 for a question, meaning I got 3 and 4 out of 4 from each assessor. How could I get 4/4 from one assessor, and 3/4 from the other? I mean, it is subjective sometimes for subs like English, Humanities, and theory-based subs with writing, but I dunno... I don't think its entirely fair.
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Everything has been said, in terms of humanities vs maths. Weirdly, I found that having less engaging/capable teachers can paradoxically make you do more work than you otherwise would have -if you actually care about doing well. This is because you are less likely to rely on your teacher to spoon feed you and more likely to go out and get external help, get access to other resources and generally be more independent in your learning.
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I scored pretty well in Biology and did it at a TAFE, with a teacher that wasn't too great. I think that if you can work around a bad teacher, whether its by asking questions on AN, attending tuition lectures, anything that'll help your overcome the fact that your teacher is crap, will help. For Further Maths, my teacher wasn't particularly good either. Working around these things rather than using it as an excuse to justify bad marks is the best imo. :)
This is really good advice Yacoubb. Thank you. And to everyone I think I was over reacting a bit, I'm really happy with my teachers. I've been talking to others that have had these teachers in the past and they rate them (all except for my physics) very highly.
But still, no excuses.
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Thanks everyone! Really motivated now and can't wait to start school next week.
And I don't understand why most people in this thread think 'I have given up', I admit I over reacted a bit but I just wanted people's opinions on what they think about teachers and their influence on your study score. I actually disagree with about 20% of contributors on this thread who think it's essential to have a good teacher to do well. As mentioned my someone else, 80% of your SS comes from hard work, how you spend your time and your determination. Teacher's are there to guide you.
With my rant about bad teachers, I was mostly upset at the fact I'm getting a physics teacher who literally doesn't teach. I don't like teachers who rock up to class unprepapred, and spend the first half and hour clicking on their laptop, asking others where the class is up to and setting up the lesson, I don't like teachers that make you watch videos/do useless pracs while they take a power nap. This is what I might be facing in physics this year, but there is still no excuse in not doing well. I'm just a bit disappointed that these people are getting paid 80k a year for nothing.
I'm really happy with the teachers I have, good luck everyone! Study hard, thank you to all who contributed to this thread.
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With my rant about bad teachers, I was mostly upset at the fact I'm getting a physics teacher who literally doesn't teach. I don't like teachers who rock up to class unprepapred, and spend the first half and hour clicking on their laptop, asking others where the class is up to and setting up the lesson, I don't like teachers that make you watch videos/do useless pracs while they take a power nap. This is what I might be facing in physics this year, but there is still no excuse in not doing well.
I'm in the same boat as you. I'm getting a physics teacher this year who just graduated from university, young and first year teaching. I hope he teaches well.
While I had a really great teacher for both my year 12 subjects last year, I didn't really learn from her because I liked to be ahead and do my own thing. I may have to do that for physics this year.
All the best Rod!
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Teachers contribute greatly to academic achievement. There's a whole body of literature on this. Your peers also heavily influence your level of academic success. So does your level of ability going into VCE. Anything is possible. But to say that there isn't a very big difference between schools, or to try to provide a numerical value for all those factors, sounds a bit far-fetched to me.
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But don't you have to work hard regardless?
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But don't you have to work hard regardless?
Yeah, IMO 80% of your SS comes from the amount of work you do. You should be using your teacher as a guide and a resource.
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I'm in the same boat as you. I'm getting a physics teacher this year who just graduated from university, young and first year teaching. I hope he teaches well.
While I had a really great teacher for both my year 12 subjects last year, I didn't really learn from her because I liked to be ahead and do my own thing. I may have to do that for physics this year.
All the best Rod!
My chem teacher is also new and young. I reckon one of the main positives of having a teacher like this is they work harder and you could form much closer relationships/bonds with them. Looking forward to meeting all my teachers next week!
Good luck Zealous! And great job on your 3/4 subjects last year!!
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But don't you have to work hard regardless?
Of course. Just because something else is also a factor, does not mean that the amount of work you put in isn't a very significant one. Keep in mind that this is highly individualistic as well, just because teacher A helped student X achieve in subject L does not mean that'll play as big of a factor in your case. Some people are capable of achieving very high scores without any help from teachers, others will work best through cooperation with their peers, and so forth.
Yeah, IMO 80% of your SS comes from the amount of work you do. You should be using your teacher as a guide and a resource.
I don't really like those figures because they seem to be conjured out of air. Also, 80% of what? The numerical SS?
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Of course. Just because something else is also a factor, does not mean that the amount of work you put in isn't a very significant one. Keep in mind that this is highly individualistic as well, just because teacher A helped student X achieve in subject L does not mean that'll play as big of a factor in your case. Some people are capable of achieving very high scores without any help from teachers, others will work best through cooperation with their peers, and so forth.
I don't really like those figures because they seem to be conjured out of air. Also, 80% of what? The numerical SS?
Mate with no disrespect, we know we can't go to private schools like you and receive the best education available in Victoria. That doesn't mean we can't, or I can't do as well as a private school boy just because I may have less resources, less facilities and teachers who aren't chief examiners or VCAA exam markers.
I'm someone really low in confidence, one of my biggest mistakes last year is that I would make excuses and be negative towards everything. I'm trying to be positive here, and despite maybe getting teachers who aren't as good as the teacher's you have been taught by I still think, with hard work and determination I can do well.
Once again no disrespect bud, we are both entitled to our opinions
Rod
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Mate with no disrespect, we know we can't go to private schools like you and receive the best education available in Victoria. That doesn't mean we can't, or I can't do as well as a private school boy just because I may have less resources, less facilities and teachers who aren't chief examiners or VCAA exam markers.
I'm someone really low in confidence, one of my biggest mistakes last year is that I would make excuses and be negative towards everything. I'm trying to be positive here, and despite maybe getting teachers who aren't as good as the teacher's you have been taught by I still think, with hard work and determination I can do well.
Once again no disrespect bud, we are both entitled to our opinions
Rod
You seem to have misunderstood the point of my post.
If anything, it was a dig at those who claim that going to the top private/selective schools did not advantage them, and it was their hard work that got them where they are.
It is more difficult to achieve in a public school, but certainly it is not impossible. I'd never claim otherwise - there are several examples on this board of very high achievers from public schools. That's why those who do achieve elsewhere deserve, in my opinion, much more respect than those who do so in private/selective schools.
I'm hesitant to start another private vs public school debate, since we get a load of them, but it'll suffice to say that I think the current situation in which money attains you a far superior education is unfair.
Do your best, work hard, and for me that's real achievement right there. The ATAR is just a number, and the way in which you got there counts much more looking back.
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You seem to have misunderstood the point of my post.
If anything, it was a dig at those who claim that going to the top private/selective schools did not advantage them, and it was their hard work that got them where they are.
It is more difficult to achieve in a public school, but certainly it is not impossible. I'd never claim otherwise - there are several examples on this board of very high achievers from public schools. That's why those who do achieve elsewhere deserve, in my opinion, much more respect than those who do so in private/selective schools.
I'm hesitant to start another private vs public school debate, since we get a load of them, but it'll suffice to say that I think the current situation in which money attains you a far superior education is unfair.
Do your best, work hard, and for me that's real achievement right there. The ATAR is just a number, and the way in which you got there counts much more looking back.
Thanks buddy, sorry about the misunderstanding.