ATAR Notes: Forum
Uni Stuff => Universities - Victoria => University of Melbourne => Topic started by: allstar on September 20, 2014, 09:55:01 am
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Hello,
I was wondering after the VCE exams, would I be able to travel overseas? like straight after? or would I have to be in Melbourne to accept the offer and do any other requirements to be considered for the biomed/science course at melb uni? im just worried that i'll have to sit an interview or submit in any forms, and I won't be in melb to do that :(
melb uni doesn't offer any radiography courses right?
thank you
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thank you Seinfeld!
I was also wondering how do I become an obstetrician from Melbourne uni?
I've taken a look at this: http://medicine.unimelb.edu.au/research/summaries/obstetrics_gynaecology
but didn't help....
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You have to get into the MD, graduate, and then specialise in obstetrics while you're working as a doctor. It should be the same for every specialisation.
I don't understand the whole training thing, explain it
After you graduate you get to be a paperwork monkey intern. That's one year (47 weeks at 38 hours a week minimum before rostered overtime + all that lovely unrostered overtime + "sick shift" cover).
Then you are a doctor with the power to prescribe drugs but you're not allowed to work/bill Medicare independently. You also don't really know a whole lot. So you spend some more years working out what you want to do with your life and so forth. How long this takes is up to you. Some people already know and follow a direct path, some people take a sabbatical and go on holiday and do locum work etc. Anyway, whilst you're deciding on this, you're working in the hospital as something called a resident (or Medical Officer, PGY etc., there are a lot of names...)
At some point, you'll decide you want to specialize in a certain area (GP, respiratory medicine, endocrinology, orthopaedic surgery etc.). This means you get to spend another X years (depends on what you choose, but unless you choose GP it's going to be at least 5) studying that field whilst also working full time. As you can imagine, this is rather busy but you get to apply for the nice title of registrar to make you feel better about it.
Over the course of your training, you'll sit multiple exams (and probably fail them and resit them) until you manage to apply for fellowship. Fellowship is really the holy grail of medicine, because it means you made it and you're now an elite specialist <insert GP joke here>. Assuming you pass your fellowship exam, you get to be a consultant/specialist and you gain the ability to independently bill Medicare for patient treatment.
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thank you Shenz0r!
Just out of curiosity how are you finding the biomed course?
is it possible to do biomedical science at monash, sit the GAMSAT to get into MD at melb? Is that possible?
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thank you Shenz0r!
Just out of curiosity how are you finding the biomed course?
is it possible to do biomedical science at monash, sit the GAMSAT to get into MD at melb? Is that possible?
Yes that is possible.
You just have to make sure you have done the prerequisite subjects required.
Look up Melbourne MD Prerequisites and you'll see a list of the subjects that are required to apply to the Melbourne MD.
I presume some that are acceptable would be embedded in the Biomedical Science course at Monash (but can't confirm - alondouek?)
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I presume some that are acceptable would be embedded in the Biomedical Science course at Monash (but can't confirm - alondouek?)
I've been summoned!
Yes, Monash biomed is designed to cover the prerequisite units for all Victorian (and probably all interstate) postgrad med courses, including UoM's MD. All Monash biomed units are core and compulsory, so you don't need to worry about selecting them to fulfil prereqs.
The only time you would need to specifically structure your course to fulfil these prereq units would be of you are doing a BSc whereby the stated unit requirements for postgrad MD/MBBS are relevant.
Edit: To elaborate a bit;
UoM MD requires one second-year unit in each of biochem, anatomy and physiology. These are covered in biomed by the compulsory units BMS2021, BMS2011 and BMS2031 (and BMS1052 as of 2015). However, only biomed students can (and must) take these units; Science students at Monash will need to do BCH2011, DEV2011 (and DEV2022) and PHY2011 (and PHY2021 or PHY2032) respectively to fulfil that set of prerequisite units.
Edit 2: Here's a comprehensive list for all approved and unapproved units for these requirements.
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thank you so much guys!!!
Wait.. all subjects in Monash are core and complusory... so they don't have like breadths like in melb... i just have to do the required subjects and thats it sit the gamsat and i'm all set?
i was just worried that melb uni would have preference of melb uni intakes, so the likelihood of making it into a MD would be more difficult if i went to monash? :(
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It's actually the other way around.
Monash will now preference their own students for their MBBS Postgrad program. Melbourne takes students in through GEMSAS, and all students will be considered equally with no thought given to the school they attended for undergrad.
I would encourage you to think about which course you're more interested in (in terms of the structure, ability or inability to do breadth or take wider electives), which course is more attractive in terms of teachers/ability to gain employment afterwards if you didn't get into medicine and which would play more to your strengths and potentially help you to strengthen your GPA. For instance, some people might benefit from breadth subjects that would help them to 'boost' their GPA and others might find them cumbersome and feel they won't do as well as they would in Science related subjects. Others might benefit from the ability to take subjects like maths if they are good at those subjects and think they will score well. So definitely take a look at the course structure in terms of (first and foremost) how much it interests you and secondly how likely you are to get a good GPA with the subjects on offer or the expected course structure. This is how all students will be considered - ranked in terms of their GPA and their GAMSAT scores. The school you attended for undergrad won't advantage or disadvantage you, unless you're applying to do the Monash MBBS postgrad and you've previously attended Monash.
One thing to consider now is that if you do a Bachelor of Science at Melbourne it may not be recognised as an 'appropriate' undergraduate degree for Monash. So I didn't apply to Monash in my GEMSAS application this year, but it would have been my fifth preference (including Sydney) anyway, so it didn't really make me cry myself to sleep at night. Others might rank Monash more highly on their lists.
I think that the most important thing to think about is which course will interest you more and which course you ultimately want to do. Hopefully you will do well enough to get into Medicine and study Medicine in the future if you still want to, but don't spend three years of your life studying something solely as a bridge. Try to do something that will benefit you irrespective of your future goals too, whether that be in the realm of possible immediate employment, furthering your knowledge in a particular area or the ability to apply for further study that might not be Medicine if need be. Always try to keep your options open and consider the bigger picture - not just the best way to get into Med :)
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Just out of curiosity how are you finding the biomed course?
If you enjoy learning broadly in the biomedical sciences (i.e if you enjoy stuff like biology very very much) then you will enjoy it. If you have interests somewhere else, like in Chemistry or Mathematics, stay well clear because you will be forced to do subjects that you may not necessarily enjoy.
1st year is similar to a Science degree and heaps of people complain about it. This is because you do 2 semesters of Biology (with more focus on humans, unlike stuff like plants which you'll also cover in Science), 1 semester of Chemistry, 1 semester of Physics (which plain sucks) and also 2 other core subjects (Maths for Biomed and Stats). I guess people are just disappointed that "we're not learning medicine" since we have to go through stuff like Chem and Physics etc.
Both maths and stats are rather dry compared to your other cores, but they are easy to score well in so I would say there's no excuse for doing badly, even if the material is boring. You won't get to do these subjects in Science, but if you want you can read the Subject reviews posted on the University of Melbourne board.
2nd year is harder, and heaps of people still complain about it, mainly because of the difficulty of some core subjects (which largely amounts to people just whining). There's a big focus on "integrating" different fields of biomedical sciences and therefore you will be given a more broad exposure to the biomedical sciences (albeit at less depth sometimes).
There are some issues with how everything is integrated together. That being said, it is very focused on the medical sciences so if you're into that then there's going to be incentive to learn. The first semester core (MCB) is the best subject I've done, but the second semester subject (HSF) is not tailored to the Biomed degree at all, since you're pretty much receiving the same lectures as those in science except you're being taught a lot more shittily. Apart from your cores, you're givrn free reign to pick more medical subjects that are offered to both Science and Biomed students (such as Pharm or Microbiology).
3rd year I have no idea but you spend half of your subjects with Science students. I don't really know much about the cores.
Don't pick Biomedicine simply because of the fancy name or that it's seen as a "pre-med" degree. You will be essentially locking yourself to the health sciences, so if you have other interests you may want to explore, go do Science. If you're 100% set on pursuing health sciences it is the better degree though.
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3rd year I have no idea but you spend half of your subjects with Science students. I don't really know much about the cores.
I'm enjoying 3rd year more than 2nd and I enjoyed 2nd more than first (cos I'm a biology type of guy and chemistry/physics notevenonce). First sem biomed core I enjoyed. Content was interesting and felt like it was run smoothly. Second sem core is also interesting. The assessments are different but I'm finding it pretty cool (I think 50% of your final mark is assignments etc). It has legit tutes which I find refreshing given that the 2nd year tutes were pretty much spare lecture slots. Being able to choose a major and study something you enjoy is also a bonus.
I'm one of the guys who disliked the second year core subjects. I reckon MCB was run well and the content was interesting (although my memory is fuzzy at this point). HSF on the other hand was pretty much all the science subjects stuck in one with less access to some study materials the science kids had and more to study for each test. Mind = asploded when I did the 3rd sem core subject last sem and didn't have to revise 60 something lectures. Feelsweirdbutgoodman when I revise for a MST and only have like 12 lectures to study instead of 24. IMO the increased workload is probably one of the biggest reasons why biomed kids complain.
If I could do it again I'd just go science. Even if you are 100% sure on med etc you can enter med with any undergrad degree.
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is there a pathway in melb uni where i can be a radiographer with a biomed degree? just wondering what other hospital - related jobs i could do if i couldn't pass the GAMSAT.....
Also, whats MBC and HSF? you guys referred to it.. but i dunno what they are ... sorry...
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Don't think you can become a radiographer straight out of Biomed - pretty sure you need an actual degree in radiography and medical imaging. As far as I know there's no radiography major in Science/Biomed anyway.
Do you see yourself doing biomedical research? Because if you don't do any postgraduate health science course (some of which require GAMSAT, like dent and med) then you will most likely be doing further study and research.
MCB (Molecular and Cellular Biomedicine) and HSF (Human Structure and Function) are core subjects you complete in your 2nd year of Biomed, so everybody has to study and pass them. You can read subject reviews here.
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am I not one for research is there any health related jobs I can do in the hospital with a biomed degree? doesn't have to be at melb...
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am I not one for research is there any health related jobs I can do in the hospital with a biomed degree? doesn't have to be at melb...
Nope and yes it sucks but that's the Melbourne Model. Your options are pretty much research or post graduate study
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man thats really risking doing biomed at melb.... :(
whats the difference between mbbs and md in terms of getting a job?
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There's hardly any difference because they're almost the same degree. Having the MD gives you a slight advantage when you're choosing your internships for certain hospitals, but in terms of general employment, it won't increase your chances a significant degree.
From Russ' post:
What's going to look better on my CV; undergraduate MBBS, postgraduate MBBS or postgraduate MD?
There is generally no difference between the degrees at graduate or undergraduate level since they're all fundamentally the same thing. Their purpose is to produce a university trained doctor who can be moulded into a hospital trained doctor. There are some subtle differences between the degrees but they are negligible in comparison to the difference between being a medical student and not being a medical student.
Now since you absolutely have to know;
There has been a recent shift towards evidence based CV (EBCV) applications for internships. One category on these applications is generally "educational level", where you're awarded extra points for extra degrees you've studied. Having a Bachelor of X in addition to your postgraduate degree is obviously slightly beneficial here. The Melbourne MD is the (at the moment) only masters level one and has a compulsory research element in it, which is optional in other degrees. Published research is also beneficial in applications.
However, taking a year less to finish your medical degree may also confer employment benefits in the current market for grads. See why you shouldn't try to game the system now?
There's a doctor shortage and for the time being, regardless of whether you have MBBS or MD, you'll find a job.
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can i sit the GAMSAT twice in two consecutive years? will they take the best score out of the two or will they take the latest score i did? during my undergrad degree? i can't seem to find the rules and regulations on the GEMSAS site?
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They take the best score. The GAMSAT scores are valid for 2 application cycles (so 2 years) Before you apply in your 3rd year, you can sit:
GAMSAT UK in September first year (not many do it in first year though).
GAMSAT AUS in March of second year
GAMSAT UK in September of second year
GAMSAT AUS March in third year
Then GEMSAS applications will be due on May.
So really you can sit 3-4 times before you apply. GAMSAT UK is pretty much the same thing as GAMSAT AUS except it just costs more ($440 for AUS compared to ~$550 for UK)
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@shenz0r: The issue is a bit more nuanced than a doctor shortage. There's a maldistribution of consultants (particularly rural v metro) and an OVERsupply of junior doctors.
Case in point, there are newly minted anaesthetists who are subsisting on locum work.
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Thanks guys !
Is there a course at Melb Uni where I can qualify as a radiographer, sonographer, radiotherapist or pharmacy?
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Thanks guys !
Is there a course at Melb Uni where I can qualify as a radiographer, sonographer, radiotherapist or pharmacy?
As far as I know, no.
You can do post grad pharm after your science/biomed degree though (assuming you get ~70% avg) you can do it at Monash (I think 2 years on top?)
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what about qualifying as a sonographer from melb uni with a biomed degree under my belt?
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what about qualifying as a sonographer from melb uni with a biomed degree under my belt?
From what I know, I don't think it is possible with just a B.Biomed :(
I think you'd have to transfer to La trobe/Monash for their Radiography programs :(
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With the Melbourne Model, the degrees are too generalised and chances are you will not be competitively employable with just an undergraduate degree. Having a Bachelor of Science or Biomedicine is not enough these days. A major isn't enough to "qualify" you, you actually need to do a more specific degree (which often means postgraduate if you're going to Melbourne).
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Also keep in mind the notable effect that (relevant) extracurricular activities has on your employability. I know several people who graduated with a BBiomedSc (Hons) or a BSc (Hons) and were able to begin early-career research or forms of clinical practice (e.g. clin epidemiology, infectious disease pathology etc. etc.) at various institutions due to the networking and Summer/Winter research they did at undergraduates (admittedly from Monash, but I doubt there's too much difference in employability between Monash and UoM undergrad degrees).
It's probably also relevant to note that most of these people went on to do (or are doing) a Masters, PhD or MD, but it didn't preclude them from getting work in the first place.
tl;dr It's not just your degree that gets you a job. Talk to people and do stuff in your field as an undergrad and you'll more than likely give yourself an edge later down the track.
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Okay they really need to start teaching you in school that you should expect to be at university for more than 3 years.
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It depends on what your goals are. If you want a job then you can spend three years at university and come out professionally accredited as a medical imaging technician (just not at the University of Melbourne).
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Also keep in mind the notable effect that (relevant) extracurricular activities has on your employability...
tl;dr It's not just your degree that gets you a job. Talk to people and do stuff in your field as an undergrad and you'll more than likely give yourself an edge later down the track.
I wouldn't just say relevant extracurriculars - being president of a club and keeping a good GPA reflects better on someone as opposed to someone who just keeps a good GPA. Even having a part time job is important as a bit of work experience (although don't work 30 hours a week and let it get in the way of uni, etc, etc.)
But yeah, there's plenty of relevant stuff that you can do - both paid and unpaid. Keep an eye out for volunteering in relevant things (e.g. if you want to be a doctor, volunteer at the ambulance service, if you want to be a teacher, do one of the casual TA gigs,) and paid work (which can be a bit harder to find and get.) I know a couple of people who've gotten full-time jobs out of basic lab assistant jobs they did as an undergrad.
Okay they really need to start teaching you in school that you should expect to be at university for more than 3 years.
Literally this. Doubly so if you want to do anything research or health science related.