Post by: xXNovaxX on August 30, 2009, 07:52:22 pm
I was wondering does anyone have any experiences form bullying (no need to mention names) just so it can be seen how wide spread it is. Also, what do you personally think can/should be done???
I for one, think that more emphasis needs to be spent on RACIST BULLYING, because in all my years highschool of watching lame video's and weeks worth of lessons about anti-bullying, nothing was ever mentioned about living in social cohesion and harmony with those of different backgrounds. As a mutlicultural country which is full of rich cultures, we should focus a lot on this, e..g recent attacks on indian studnets, negative perceptions about muslims, pauline hansons "being swamped by asians" *sigh* . A lot of people unfortunately are stupid enough to fall for it.
Also i think a record should be kept of a student who has committed bullying, so that when they move schools appropriate precautions can be taken. Teachers also shouldnt be worried about being "sued" for intervening, the law has become so ridicilous many teachers have expressed fear of breaking up fights incase a parent sues the teacher....and as always the bully gets away with it.
Like to hear thoughts, its a really big topic.
Post by: AppleXY on August 30, 2009, 08:15:37 pm
I havn't. I always get dissed about my height and child like appearance though (as a joke, i think LOL) lLOLOL.
Post by: jywalker on August 30, 2009, 08:18:01 pm
Post by: xXNovaxX on August 30, 2009, 08:53:27 pm
Post by: AppleXY on August 30, 2009, 09:37:43 pm
I'm 160cm. Yup. Can't pickup. lol
Post by: Gloamglozer on August 31, 2009, 02:40:52 pm
LOL. If you see me, you'll immediately think i'm 13, 100% guaranteed (its like seeing a fat person, he's fat LOLHAAHA). :P :P
I'm 160cm. Yup. Can't pickup. lol
I'm short as well (or "vertically challenged" if you do English Language :P ) and although I can't say I've been bullied as such, it does get a mention once every now and then, especially when family members get involved...
Post by: lachymm on November 09, 2009, 10:29:22 pm
Everyone gets given a hard time once and a while (Sometimes people do it to find out what your made of) but you just gotta know how to handle it meaning do you pick on them eg, hair, height, acne, fat, skinny... Or do you just laugh it off or...play the sympathy card?<===========for girls.
Having friends is just like VCE some people find it naturally easier and i do believe that even if you have a hard time socially you can substitute being naturally "cool" with hard work in a way by hard work i mean moving outside your comfort zone or out to make people feel better.
If you cant make good mates think of this..."Its not what you say that people remember, its how you make them feel"
Post by: GerrySly on November 09, 2009, 10:35:36 pm
Post by: linny on November 09, 2009, 10:38:56 pm
LOL. If you see me, you'll immediately think i'm 13, 100% guaranteed (its like seeing a fat person, he's fat LOLHAAHA). :P :P
I'm 160cm. Yup. Can't pickup. lol
lol im 158cm lol my aim has always been getting to 160....dont think thats going to happen though :(
BUT i think bullying will always be around.. as there would always be that one kid who was maybe treated badly by parents (or have been bullied themselves)/ had unhappy childhood (and many other reasons !) and thus vents his/her actions through bullying?
obviously, i dont know how the psychological thing goes....
Post by: xXNovaxX on November 09, 2009, 11:21:42 pm
But my point is, I wonder what MEASURE can actually cause a decrease in bullying, I don't think "lets all be friends" and "anti-harassment" lessons help that much. Like my friends school has a WHOLE WEEK dedicated explaining what bullying is, why its bad etc. But people KNOW why it's bad.
I THINK the issue lies with a FEW "bad" kids who come from dysfunctional families, or have been innocent victims of abuse etc, who come to school and "spread" their behaviour which see's other think its acceptable. I think programs should target them to help them integrate and have their needs heard.
That is what I believe will remove a significant proportion of bullying.
Post by: minilunchbox on November 09, 2009, 11:34:38 pm
But yeah, most people who get bullied would either move schools or just tough it out because after a few years it stops. I mean, it's still there, but it's less in your face because you just cling to your friendship groups and then around VCE everyone is supposedly friends with everyone, but I just think people stop caring about picking on others and just give their own friends slack as a joke. Holy run on sentence.
Most forms of bullying that occur are verbal/psychological and I don't believe that you can stop it. It's normally started because the bully is jealous or bored, mostly bored and they want to feel superior for a while. But the more extreme cases which are physical would probably be conducted by the kids with less-than-positive upbringings and those would be more easily 'fixed' since it's so extreme.
I don't know though. It's just such a massive thing that it's really hard to target. It'd be like trying to stop racism or homophobia.
Post by: xXNovaxX on November 09, 2009, 11:52:15 pm
Now, it is widely practised, laws have been enacted to stop discrimination, mariages are being accepted between two pplz of the same sex, etc.
I know this doesn't mean bullying against them has stopped, but they are now "coming out" =.=*, whereas before they would keep it to themselves and be all depressed etc.
Racism is a strange issue. IMO i think racism is like the economic business cycle (sorry for all non-eco students), every few years u have a BOOM (growth), then recession, and cycle continues.
Same as racism e.g. "we're being swamped by asians"=pauline hanson
"Oh, were gonna increase our refugee and immigration intake"
"Oh, we're not going to allow boat people to land, we will send them off shore"
"We're not going to send the sri lankan boat people back where they will only be placed in jail"
I hvae just put that in chronogical order of real life events in Australia....notice how it goes bad, good, bad, good.
It all depends in a change in Government, and the issue which arise that year, e.g. since septermber 11 in relation to arabs, before Sep 11.
Bullying though has just seemed to increase and then remain flat, then increase etc. ALSO bullying now takes much mroe sinister forms, cyber bullying, threats, suicides, murders, sexual/physical abuse
Post by: periwinkle on November 09, 2009, 11:59:01 pm
In yrs 6-7 I got into somewhat of a vicious circle, behaving in an attention-seeking manner and being disliked for it, but somehow I and the group's respective attitudes to each other improved and I started enjoying most of the interaction, having a few disputes only, ironically, with my closest friends.
Post by: xXNovaxX on November 10, 2009, 12:02:19 am
I also noticed something similar, as my class matured, and moved into final years of schooling, EVERYBODY became friends with EVERYBODY. People would talk with eve1, no "groups" as such existed like it used to etc.
In yrs 6-7 I got into somewhat of a vicious circle, behaving in an attention-seeking manner and being disliked for it, but somehow I and the group's respective attitudes to each other improved and I started enjoying most of the interaction, having a few disputes only, ironically, with my closest friends.
Weird things happen!
Post by: periwinkle on November 10, 2009, 12:08:33 am
I also noticed something similar, as my class matured, and moved into final years of schooling, EVERYBODY became friends with EVERYBODY. People would talk with eve1, no "groups" as such existed like it used to etc.
In yrs 6-7 I got into somewhat of a vicious circle, behaving in an attention-seeking manner and being disliked for it, but somehow I and the group's respective attitudes to each other improved and I started enjoying most of the interaction, having a few disputes only, ironically, with my closest friends.
Weird things happen!
Mmmm, having shared travails is gud for bringing people together. I wouldn't mind having a job like the one described in this link [below], if only for a while, just for that level of camaraderie
http://vcenotes.com/forum/index.php/topic,16714.0.html
Post by: Ahmad on November 10, 2009, 12:22:35 am
Post by: boysenberry on November 12, 2009, 12:15:54 am
Post by: xXNovaxX on November 12, 2009, 12:20:02 am
Post by: periwinkle on November 12, 2009, 12:22:43 am
I don't think Australia has a real issue with bullying. :coolsmiley:
That's a rather general statement. Why does it matter whether Australia as a whole can be considered to have 'a problem' with bullying, when we know for sure the problem exists; 70% of people in Ahmad's poll said they had been bullied.
Post by: boysenberry on November 12, 2009, 12:25:38 am
That's a rather general statement. Why does it matter whether Australia as a whole can be considered to have 'a problem' with bullying, when we know for sure the problem exists; 70% of people in Ahmad's poll said they had been bullied.
I just mean to say that it's not too serious here. No one dies from it, not like in the US or how they make it out in the media.
Post by: Over9000 on November 12, 2009, 12:29:29 am
What I think shud be done: Well I think there shud be a revolt, all the people who are non bullies/ get bullied shud all team up and fuk the shit over those bully cunts and smash the shit out of them. Coz words are not enough, and the police/skools cudnt give a shit about bullying (police wayy too busy making money off speeding people while skools are too busy, umm, doing nothing)
Post by: xXNovaxX on November 12, 2009, 12:30:39 am
zzzz i defended you ><
That's a really generalised statement as periwinkle pointed out.
Nobody has to DIE from a situation for it to be serious. The trauma in my opinion is WORSE than death in many instances. Why do you think they SUICIDE, because death is more peaceful for them.
At this rate, we could BECOME like America, and even then people would say "oh its not serious" because they beging to ACCEPT IT, when they SHOULDN'T.
That statement you made was really very broad, and can be offensive to many who have experienced bullying, you should at LEAST be able to feel/imagine how they suffer.
There has many a myriad of serious bullying here, I cant list them all, but every week you do at least hear a few, not to mention the one's not reported.
Post by: xXNovaxX on November 12, 2009, 12:31:30 am
Bullying can really ruin sum1's life. I think its terrible, I dont get why people bully, its quite stupid. Although im referring moreso to the physical act of bullying or harsh verbal stuff. I know ive bullied ppl before but it was moreso a light act (bagging them a bit not everyday though or ever harsh words). But when it gets too far and becomes serious bashing, its just fukn stupid, I seriously think they shud get fukn hit by a train if theyre gonna do shit like that.you bullied me on VCEnotes :P ** reminiscence -ve karma saga** LMAO, but I took it light heartedly :P
Post by: Over9000 on November 12, 2009, 12:33:37 am
Read what I sed??Bullying can really ruin sum1's life. I think its terrible, I dont get why people bully, its quite stupid. Although im referring moreso to the physical act of bullying or harsh verbal stuff. I know ive bullied ppl before but it was moreso a light act (bagging them a bit not everyday though or ever harsh words). But when it gets too far and becomes serious bashing, its just fukn stupid, I seriously think they shud get fukn hit by a train if theyre gonna do shit like that.you bullied me on VCEnotes :P ** reminiscence -ve karma saga** LMAO, but I took it light heartedly :P
Im sure I didnt bash you or say extreme stuff, and getting negged isnt even bullying (its a joke, u dont even needa take it that way), i negged heaps of others, but whatever, whine if u need to.
Post by: periwinkle on November 12, 2009, 12:35:23 am
That's a rather general statement. Why does it matter whether Australia as a whole can be considered to have 'a problem' with bullying, when we know for sure the problem exists; 70% of people in Ahmad's poll said they had been bullied.
I just mean to say that it's not too serious here. No one dies from it, not like in the US or how they make it out in the media.
Ok. You might be right; former member Matt the Rat said in some cases the negative effects of 'bullying' could be soved by teaching the victim to HTFU. Having said that, one does here about instances where it *is* vicious and can cause great damage to the victim's self-esteem [and/or physical self.] But yeah, one wouldn't be surprised if, (as with everything), it's more extreme in the US.
Post by: Over9000 on November 12, 2009, 12:37:09 am
Why should people have to HTFU, doing so will only allow them to grow an ego and then cause destructive behavior to others having had it done to them, thats just bs that that could even be thought of as a solution. The bullies have no fukn right, the bastards are in for it.That's a rather general statement. Why does it matter whether Australia as a whole can be considered to have 'a problem' with bullying, when we know for sure the problem exists; 70% of people in Ahmad's poll said they had been bullied.
I just mean to say that it's not too serious here. No one dies from it, not like in the US or how they make it out in the media.
Ok. You might be right; former member Matt the Rat said in some cases the negative effects of 'bullying' could be solved by teaching the victim to HTFU. Having said that, one does here about instances where it *is* vicious and can cause great damage to the victim's self-esteem [and/or physical self.] But yeah, one wouldn't be surprised if, (as with everything), it's more extreme in the US.
Post by: xXNovaxX on November 12, 2009, 12:40:35 am
U would only need to HTFU, if YOU invited the bullies, and then couldn't cop it, but not when you are being yourself.
Post by: periwinkle on November 12, 2009, 12:41:50 am
To 'htfu' [Matt the Rat's term, not mine] might be considered a good coping mechanism.Why should people have to HTFU, doing so will only allow them to grow an ego and then cause destructive behavior to others having had it done to them, thats just bs that that could even be thought of as a solution. The bullies have no fukn right, the bastards are in for it.That's a rather general statement. Why does it matter whether Australia as a whole can be considered to have 'a problem' with bullying, when we know for sure the problem exists; 70% of people in Ahmad's poll said they had been bullied.
I just mean to say that it's not too serious here. No one dies from it, not like in the US or how they make it out in the media.
Ok. You might be right; former member Matt the Rat said in some cases the negative effects of 'bullying' could be solved by teaching the victim to HTFU. Having said that, one does here about instances where it *is* vicious and can cause great damage to the victim's self-esteem [and/or physical self.] But yeah, one wouldn't be surprised if, (as with everything), it's more extreme in the US.
But I totally agree, the bullies have no right whatsoever.
Post by: Over9000 on November 12, 2009, 12:43:21 am
Post by: xXNovaxX on November 12, 2009, 12:51:12 am
In highschool though, it becomes necessary to, since this is where a lot of issues happen.
However, most bullies tend to do it continually, over months/years, nobody can be expected to keep it inside-which is HTFU practically means, for that long. If it was one off's etc it would be possible, but not continuous,
Post by: Over9000 on November 12, 2009, 12:57:51 am
The thing is periwinkle, I can understand what he means, in primary school I think 100% nobody has to HTFU, no body.No, people shud be allowed to be weak and not have to worry about people beating the shit out of them, I for one wudnt like being told id have to harden up if I were getting bashed, high school or not.
In highschool though, it becomes necessary to, since this is where a lot of issues happen.
However, most bullies tend to do it continually, over months/years, nobody can be expected to keep it inside-which is HTFU practically means, for that long. If it was one off's etc it would be possible, but not continuous,
Post by: periwinkle on November 12, 2009, 12:59:30 am
Post by: Over9000 on November 12, 2009, 01:01:20 am
Well, to 'htfu' could mean to assume a state which, in some cases, negates the motivation of the bullies to cause emotional harm, like a shield. But, rest assured, I don't think there's ever an excuse for bullying, just like rape victims can never be said to be "asking for it" or in any way at fault.Ye I agree. Making out like someone should just act in a way that doesnt provoke sum1 is like telling a beautiful woman to look ugly so she wont get raped, why shud they have to?
Post by: xXNovaxX on November 12, 2009, 01:03:07 am
I mean, like in primary school you have "Im gona dob on you, you yelled at me"
....in high-school people should NOT do that :P
haha, that's all I meant.
I did stress in my other post people shouldn't be picked on if they are merely being themselves
Post by: Over9000 on November 12, 2009, 02:13:19 am
No, no I agree!! I didn't mean it like that.Yes, the main problem occurs when having to deal with bullies (dobbing provokes them so what to do), which is why I think what should happen is that they should never be given a chance to bully, either in the form of much harsher punishments or other ways that I cant think of.
I mean, like in primary school you have "Im gona dob on you, you yelled at me"
....in high-school people should NOT do that :P
haha, that's all I meant.
I did stress in my other post people shouldn't be picked on if they are merely being themselves
Post by: boysenberry on November 12, 2009, 02:16:41 am
Yes, the main problem occurs when having to deal with bullies (dobbing provokes them so what to do), which is why I think what should happen is that they should never be given a chance to bully, either in the form of much harsher punishments or other ways that I cant think of.
Are you suggesting the implementation of corporal punishment?
Post by: xXNovaxX on November 12, 2009, 02:17:37 am
WHat made me so angry is the State Gov. broguht in a few weeks ago stricter rules so u CANNOT suspend people for longer the "x"d days (it was like cut in HALF i think), and u cannot expel them witohut seeking approval by the Dept.
That is so stupid, I see NO ADVANTAGE/ PURPOSE in that what so ever, the number of bullies I have seen kicked out/ expelled SERIOUSLY brought a noticeable difference to my school.
If its because they care about them "missing learning time" well then thats a consequence, and I dont think many want to learn. And besides, for those that do, the school should provide h/w or something.
U are spot on again, the SLIGHEST sign of bullying= punishment.
People tend to think you bully when you wound someone....it's not as clear cut as that.
Post by: xXNovaxX on November 12, 2009, 02:19:47 am
DO NOT GO THERE. I would NEVER want to see that implemented, it is SO PRIMITIVE, even in conservative/tough countries they are beginning to/ have removed it.Yes, the main problem occurs when having to deal with bullies (dobbing provokes them so what to do), which is why I think what should happen is that they should never be given a chance to bully, either in the form of much harsher punishments or other ways that I cant think of.
Are you suggesting the implementation of corporal punishment?
The Gov. was going to bring it in a while back, but I dont think it got the nod. . I mean that, students will be SCARED of going to school, and students may be HIT for "talking in class"- a minor offence
Also its hypocrisy because its BULLYING in itself.
Post by: Over9000 on November 12, 2009, 02:30:41 am
Yes, bullies should be allowed to do whatever they want with no punishment. If one wishes to stop being bullied, then theyd just have to train and become stronger than that person so they cud beat the shit through them whilst also getting no punishment (so far it sounds all good).DO NOT GO THERE. I would NEVER want to see that implemented, it is SO PRIMITIVE, even in conservative/tough countries they are beginning to/ have removed it.Yes, the main problem occurs when having to deal with bullies (dobbing provokes them so what to do), which is why I think what should happen is that they should never be given a chance to bully, either in the form of much harsher punishments or other ways that I cant think of.
Are you suggesting the implementation of corporal punishment?
The Gov. was going to bring it in a while back, but I dont think it got the nod. . I mean that, students will be SCARED of going to school, and students may be HIT for "talking in class"- a minor offence
Also its hypocrisy because its BULLYING in itself.
Post by: periwinkle on November 12, 2009, 02:31:03 am
I think counseling for the bully should at least be attempted, unless they're really extreme. Try and make them not want to be a bully, rather than the mere 'band-aid solution' many punishments provide.
Post by: Over9000 on November 12, 2009, 02:32:20 am
^^Beatings can also be very traumatic, even if they last for less than a minute.Like they give a shit what a counselor says. Hey people who speed on the roads and people who shoot others or kill people should get to see a counselor as well, why are they punished immediately.
I think counseling for the bully should at least be attempted, unless they're really extreme.
Bullying can lead to suicide, so imo in some rare cases, it can be as bad as killing someone (maybe some over exaggeration but the point im making is its not something one can dismiss easy).
Post by: xXNovaxX on November 12, 2009, 02:32:38 am
^^Beatings can also be very traumatic, even if they last for less than a minute.yeah, thats what I was contending.
I think counseling for the bully should at least be attempted, unless they're really extreme.
I am not a bully, and I don't want to see teachers have an extra power which MANy are sure to abuse, and make the INNOCENT PEOPLE afraid to go to school
EDIT: I am looking at it from the "others" view, not the bullies who should be punished. But I think there are better ways than corporal punishment, hence it hasn't been implemented.
Post by: periwinkle on November 12, 2009, 02:36:59 am
I think I'm with what enwiabe said on another thread, [admittedly discussing a *murder* but nevertheless relevant across the spectrum of extremity]:
This is a tragic, tragic day. Let's not belittle what has happened by arguing so baselessly over judging the man's actions. Everyone has an opinion, but when that opinion is slanderous then it is an issue. Let us please wait for all the facts to come in before making such judgments.
Why not turn the conversation to the real crux of the issue, which is preventing violence? How does it happen that someone potentially brings themselves to kill another man?
I think this is a sobering message for all that we should endeavour to, when feeling rage or anger, ensure that these emotions are channelled constructively and not in the manner that we have allegedly witnessed today. Nobody grows up wanting to be a killer... if this man (assuming he did, in fact do it) had been educated to better deal with negative emotion and how to handle (and subsequently constructively outlet) anger/rage, then this never would have happened.
I am a strong proponent for introducing education programs that deal with weeding out emotional problems that lead to violence and crime. I do not understand why we do not already have provisions for teaching schoolchildren preventive measures for getting rid of the thought processes that lead to these senseless acts. Instead, it's more of a "wait for the problem THEN send them to the psychologist" type of deal. And that's how you get this happening. The solution to crime is not a sound punitive policy. It is, in fact, a sound education policy. Any thoughts on this?
Post by: appianway on November 13, 2009, 09:35:24 am
Post by: periwinkle on November 13, 2009, 10:16:27 am
There seems to be an emphasis on this thread regarding physical violence, but I think that psychological bullying can be just as threatening. I'd say that there's a high prevalence of this in Australia - students are often alienated because of differences that are either fabricated or perceived to exist. It's much harder to combat this type of bullying: often attempts to deal with it isolate the victim even further.Part of what you describe might be psychological projection, which can cause people to interpret someone else's perfectly benign comment, stare, etc, as hostile or constituting bullying. Though definite, deliberate, psychological bullying does exist, sure. I think that though it can be cruel on the part of the bully, helping the victim work on developing their self-esteem can go a long way towards preventing the bullying and/or negating its effects. This was the case with my aforementioned [on page 1] situation.
Post by: kendraaaaa on November 13, 2009, 10:21:20 am
Post by: i-am-bored-69 on November 13, 2009, 03:30:02 pm
Post by: xXNovaxX on November 13, 2009, 03:59:13 pm
u can take some comfort in the fact that the bullies get their own back, and probably worse....Oh I like the cliff hanger at the end...
dan, dan, dan
Post by: superflya on December 23, 2009, 09:55:37 pm
Post by: Eriny on December 24, 2009, 12:23:55 am
Post by: kyzoo on December 24, 2009, 12:29:54 am
Post by: lolbox on December 24, 2009, 12:30:58 am
Post by: amirite? on December 24, 2009, 12:31:22 am
Its a dog eat dog world and if you dont like the taste of dim sims... GTFO!
Post by: kyzoo on December 24, 2009, 12:33:13 am
Post by: ZachCharge on December 24, 2009, 12:39:02 am
Bullying can be character building if the victim has a character to begin with, but often many victims don't have the confidence to deflect the bullying and grow stronger from it. Perhaps the best way to reduce the impact of bullying is to HTFU before you get bullied, because then it won't matter so much (and also, if people bully due to a lack of confidence as well then maybe bullying would reduce as a result of this too). I mean, it still doesn't make bullying okay and some kind of punitive action should still take place, but the lasting effects wouldn't be so pronounced.How exactly CAN you get a bunch of = or <5 year olds to harden up anyway?
Post by: TrueLight on December 24, 2009, 01:35:19 am
since bullies can find a way around it
it really just feeds off each other (bully+victim)
and i reckon bullying is most significant in high school years and then decreases after vce and decreases before yr 7
i made this thread before... the videos if i remember correctly are very sad
http://vcenotes.com/forum/index.php/topic,13635.0.html
Post by: xXNovaxX on December 24, 2009, 01:40:25 am
I am surprised at the last 4 posts, excluding Zachcharge.
ADULTS get BULLIED, yes 30,40 year old get bullied at work.
Someone in a previous post talked about hardening up, but also expressed how in most cases it doesn't fit (i think I remember).
People are forgetting we are NOT talking about "oh, ur fat hahahaha" one-off's.<<we CAN deal with these
Bullying is CONTINUOUS, NOBODY in the world, NOBODY can deal with being called names, verbal and or physical abuse all their life.
Have you's forgotton bullies don't "stop" or "go away" even when you "harden up" and tell them "okay thats enough now go away".
How do you "harden up", go to gym? U want every person in the world to "get muscles", or do u want them to say "oh, ur hurting my feelings can you stop"......what do u define as "hardening up"? Or, is it "do it again/mess with u and ill bash you?"
Fail, fail, fail, all of the above choices are the ONLY ones which exist, and all of them still cause bullying to occur
1= U ignore it thus "hardening up" = bullies see it as giving in, and thus continue
2=u tell them "ill bash you" as a way of "hardening up"= they get angry and bully you more
3= tell a teacher or co-ordinator = they get suspended most LIKELY. These days more and more get suspended because bullying isn't accepted.
As the above poster said, you also have the issue of those <5 years old
Post by: xXNovaxX on December 24, 2009, 01:42:03 am
i think the solution is more complex than htfuI will have a look at the vids after I get un-capped
since bullies can find a way around it
it really just feeds off each other (bully+victim)
and i reckon bullying is most significant in high school years and then decreases after vce and decreases before yr 7
i made this thread before... the videos if i remember correctly are very sad
http://vcenotes.com/forum/index.php/topic,13635.0.html
But I agree, in VCE i NEVER saw ANY bullying, it was so shocking from my years in 7-10 where Highschool was really highschool as u see on American TV shows.
VCE was full of mature adults, and people who were part of EVERY group, i.e. everyone mingled.
Post by: TrueLight on December 24, 2009, 01:43:42 am
and that once ur an adult, the bullying changes form and i believe ppl can handle it better in general than in high school
and yes in VCE especially yr 12 it does reduce quite a lot but its still there for ppl who do get bullied
Post by: stonecold on December 24, 2009, 02:04:59 am
Nothing angers me more than when I hear about people committing suicide because the bullying has gone so far. Although I think it is a major problem, the amount of students drinking excessively and taking illegal drugs is growing exponentially IMO. It seems these days that what was once the minority, has become the majority. And every time I hear of 13-17 year old girls getting pregnant, it sickens me. We learnt nothing at my school about practicing safe sex. Total joke.
Uniform education across all of these areas should be covered weekly at all primary and secondary schools. If the government thinks those stupid exstacy and weed ads on TV deter students from taking illicit substances, then they have delusions. Get people who have been on drugs or lost loved ones to drugs to come and talk in front of them. That might actually scare the shit out of them and stop them from doing it.
Post by: xXNovaxX on December 24, 2009, 02:15:31 am
I think u were saying ur school was crappy =S
U may be right, sorry no offence but u said it =S
Because we had at our school Anti-bullying WEEK, and also we had people/social workers come in and talk, and I think former alcoholics.
And yes, when I hear of young people becoming pregnant, I think to myself, what has become of our world....(this excludes of course people being pregnant due to rape etc, which is totally different, and I sympathise with them it would be so hard)
However, if it's any consolation, smoking has gone down to one of the lowest levels ever, I don't know where I saw a chart but it's soooo low. Oh, but u didnt mention smoking ><
Drugs I always hear of getting worse, and worse, and worse people are just to LAX about "recreational drugs" and stuff, like there's too much tolerance to them
Post by: stonecold on December 24, 2009, 02:26:00 am
All they told us was the best way of preventing STI's/pregnancy was to abstain from sex. Total bull shit.
Never got spoken to about drugs/alcohol and smoking. I do know that smoking is going down in society, but I think that it is rising amongst youths, and sadly not just tobacco.
Drugs are what shit me up the walls the most. It's like a domino effect. One person does it, tells another to do it, then they tell another to do it, and it just grows.:(
That is why I think the govt should take control and make a uniform plan for all schools , as I know that when it came to social justice, my school was/is one of the worst. They simply turn a blind eye and don't care. It's like they put it in the too hard basket.
And don't get me started with the rape thing. I am catholic and when I heard the pope say condoms cause AIDS and the priest say that an abortion was a far worse crime than rape, I was absolutely disgusted. How could someone say such a thing.
Post by: xXNovaxX on December 24, 2009, 02:39:02 am
Trust me, a lot of schools are far worse.
But I have to say, you cannot blame a Catholic School for saying the best way to prevent pregnancy is to abstain from sex, after all it IS part of the Catholic beliefs I believe :/ like they have the right and SHOULD put across that message since it's "morall correct" in their religion. But as we know MANY people do not follow religion 100% and so ADDITIONAL alternatives should be described and made available as a GENERAL way to avoid becoming pregnant, like if Catholic teachers were worried kids will start having sex at a young age thinking they can just "pop on a condom" (wow, that sounds so weird to say) they can teach about contraceptives as part of like a "health" or "science" lesson if you want.
But like I don't know, but the original reason why Catholic schools, and Muslim schools, and Jewish schools were established is so parents can send their kids to schools where their VALUES and MORALS and TRADITION is carried out, if that makes sense?
But in regard to STD'S i think that was wrong, abstaining from sex shouldn't have been taught as the only way, because it's a serious health issue which causes death etc, and so ALL options should have been explained.
I know you may think im off, but yeah at leats in ALL public schools u get taught it.
Post by: xXNovaxX on December 24, 2009, 02:42:09 am
Post by: stonecold on December 24, 2009, 02:57:31 am
As I have stated previously, I would like the government to take control of what is taught to students in ALL schools in the , independent and Catholic sectors in regards to what is acceptable socially. Additionally, religious schools can also educate students in their system of religion if they desire, and then leave it to the students to decide what is right and wrong.
monokekie, some people should just never be allowed to be teachers. At my TAFE this year, there was a disabled student who was partially deaf and was ridiculed by some of the teaching staff. Yes Nova, at RMIT. :(
Post by: ZachCharge on December 24, 2009, 08:38:29 am
As I have stated previously, I would like the government to take control of what is taught to students in ALL schools in the , independent and Catholic sectors in regards to what is acceptable socially. Additionally, religious schools can also educate students in their system of religion if they desire, and then leave it to the students to decide what is right and wrong.
What kids are taught at government regarding the three big issues (bullying, drugs and sex, in order of when they come) at schools isn't exactly helpful - or a deterrent. All I got from school was half a science lesson with a condom per table, a Styrofoam dildo and a hot teacher saying "Hmm...I DON'T think any of you are ready". Sex, drugs and bullying are dealt with horribly IMO. My school haven't done any anti-bully or drugs are bad lessons.
On topic, a sad thing about bullying is, if you are bullied for so long you start thinking everyone is bullying you badly. I have an anonymous friend (dropped out because of...err..."bullying") who stayed home 70% of the time as he/she was afraid of bullying - which in all honesty never really happened minus...umm...well a kid once made graffiti on his pencil case and got in quite a bit of trouble for it (it took me five minutes to think of something lol). It's hinted that he/she was really bullied in primary school and I think he/she came into high school with a feeling that everyone is out to get him/her.
Bullying needs to be dealt with at primary school, some anti-bullying lessons with videos and testimonials EACH year, harder punishments etc. Stop it their and it won't be that bad in high school (pre VCE). How about an anti-bullying van like the smoking one with a giraffe? They where fun and a good deterrent. (Heck for 6th graders they could do a anti-drugs van...(why is my mind telling me they do but my school didn't do it?)
Post by: Eriny on December 24, 2009, 09:48:16 am
Post by: xXNovaxX on December 24, 2009, 10:46:28 am
How to HTFU: Have confidence in yourself.Ah, that is clearer. But still, I stand by my other points in many cases people are confident with themselves but are still put down and abused daily/weekly, it is impossible to survive that long regardless of the confidence within urself without breaking down.
However, if you're talking about the simple stuff like "your're dumb", "you're scared of the dark" etc then YES you do need to harden up, you cannot "dob" on tiny things, but by year 7 these cases are no longer applicable, and you start entering un-charted territory when it comes to bullying relating to dangerous verbal and sexual abuse as well as physical.
Post by: stonecold on December 24, 2009, 11:42:09 am
As I have stated previously, I would like the government to take control of what is taught to students in ALL schools in the , independent and Catholic sectors in regards to what is acceptable socially. Additionally, religious schools can also educate students in their system of religion if they desire, and then leave it to the students to decide what is right and wrong.
What kids are taught at government regarding the three big issues (bullying, drugs and sex, in order of when they come) at schools isn't exactly helpful - or a deterrent. All I got from school was half a science lesson with a condom per table, a Styrofoam dildo and a hot teacher saying "Hmm...I DON'T think any of you are ready". Sex, drugs and bullying are dealt with horribly IMO. My school haven't done any anti-bully or drugs are bad lessons.
That is my point. There is absolutely no control over what is and isn't taught, and it is entirely based on which school you attend. Also I would like to point out that I never said what the government was doing at the moment was working. If anything, it obviously isn't working for the better part. Some descent money needs to be spent and progammes developed that will be effective in curbing the social issues faced by students.
I agree with your stance on bullying. It should be made clear in primary school, that physical and emotional abuse will not be tolerated. Students need to be made fully aware of the side effects of bullying, including depression and suicide. Furthermore, empty threats telling students "not to bully others" by staff members in front of the entire school assembly doesn't cut it, nor does it work. The problem needs to be dealt with regularly in small groups where students can feel comfortable to discuss any questions or things that they may have experienced that made them upset. It could be as simple as discussing a disturbing news story. It is all about educating students to behave in a socially acceptable manner. I get the feeling that most parents believe that it is the schools responsibility to do this, whilst many schools believe it is the role of the parents to control their children, however I won't open that can of worms as that is a whole other argument.
Post by: QuantumJG on December 24, 2009, 11:50:49 am
Post by: stonecold on December 24, 2009, 12:01:03 pm
My dad went to a catholic school and he said the teachers were big bullies. He had schocking stories like when the class dux forgot his bible and the teacher smashed him over the head with a textbook or when my dad was into his tennis and his teacher told him that he would never win some cup or if he did the teacher would run around in his underwear.
Teachers can be awful. This is a bit of a generalization, but I believe it is worse with older teachers. The most of them just seem to be bitter and twisted with their lives. Not saying it is all older teachers, but I much rather prefer younger teachers. They are so much easier to relate to.
Post by: xXNovaxX on December 24, 2009, 12:02:29 pm
Post by: Eriny on December 24, 2009, 12:12:39 pm
I think it's true that constant torment would be dreadful for anyone, but perhaps confident people are more likely to do something about it like tell a teacher or whatever. If the kid knows that they don't deserve to be treated so badly, then I think they'd be less likely to be completely victimised.How to HTFU: Have confidence in yourself.Ah, that is clearer. But still, I stand by my other points in many cases people are confident with themselves but are still put down and abused daily/weekly, it is impossible to survive that long regardless of the confidence within urself without breaking down.
However, if you're talking about the simple stuff like "your're dumb", "you're scared of the dark" etc then YES you do need to harden up, you cannot "dob" on tiny things, but by year 7 these cases are no longer applicable, and you start entering un-charted territory when it comes to bullying relating to dangerous verbal and sexual abuse as well as physical.
Post by: amirite? on December 24, 2009, 12:18:57 pm
Teachers can be awful. This is a bit of a generalization, but I believe it is worse with older teachers. The most of them just seem to be bitter and twisted with their lives. Not saying it is all older teachers, but I much rather prefer younger teachers. They are so much easier to relate to.
This.
Older teachers bitch and moan about their "shitty" pay (which really isnt too bad) so much. They all seem to be bitter and depressed.
Post by: QuantumJG on December 24, 2009, 12:49:58 pm
At school I preferred being taught by older teachers, since the younger teachers were usually crap and never really taught anything. In year 10 we had a young maths teacher for half of the year who didn't really teach anything and then when we did pre-methods we had an older teacher who was just brilliant.
The quality of teachers (IMO) are dropping.
We know a professor of education (very passionate about her field and reads all the time - btw she hates the VCE English curriculum). Anyway she was telling us about her students and their assignment was to write an assignment for year 8's in SOSE (obviously not a real assignment). Anyway she said that they all lacked originality.
Post by: stonecold on December 24, 2009, 12:58:43 pm
Remember that this was over 30 years ago and it was much different back then. Basically I'm sure that is why corporal punishment was removed because teachers were abusing it.
At school I preferred being taught by older teachers, since the younger teachers were usually crap and never really taught anything. In year 10 we had a young maths teacher for half of the year who didn't really teach anything and then when we did pre-methods we had an older teacher who was just brilliant.
The quality of teachers (IMO) are dropping.
We know a professor of education (very passionate about her field and reads all the time - btw she hates the VCE English curriculum). Anyway she was telling us about her students and their assignment was to write an assignment for year 8's in SOSE (obviously not a real assignment). Anyway she said that they all lacked originality.
To be fair, they don't really have anything that original to base it on to start with when you look at some of the crap assignments I've got given over the years. All teachers do is recycle assignments year after year. They are lazy. When they get 10-12 weeks paid leave each year, you think for the time which they actually are working they could put in some kind of effort.
Post by: kyzoo on December 24, 2009, 09:43:55 pm
- @ amirite: I actually never met a older teacher who was bitter, depressed, and moaning about their pay. My 65ish year-old head-of-house is one of the most energetic people I have met.
Post by: Albeno69 on January 01, 2010, 08:01:24 pm
i disagree i recon teachers get the hardest time they put up with so much shit at certain schools. Not sayin im a fan of teachers though.lolRemember that this was over 30 years ago and it was much different back then. Basically I'm sure that is why corporal punishment was removed because teachers were abusing it.
At school I preferred being taught by older teachers, since the younger teachers were usually crap and never really taught anything. In year 10 we had a young maths teacher for half of the year who didn't really teach anything and then when we did pre-methods we had an older teacher who was just brilliant.
The quality of teachers (IMO) are dropping.
We know a professor of education (very passionate about her field and reads all the time - btw she hates the VCE English curriculum). Anyway she was telling us about her students and their assignment was to write an assignment for year 8's in SOSE (obviously not a real assignment). Anyway she said that they all lacked originality.
To be fair, they don't really have anything that original to base it on to start with when you look at some of the crap assignments I've got given over the years. All teachers do is recycle assignments year after year. They are lazy. When they get 10-12 weeks paid leave each year, you think for the time which they actually are working they could put in some kind of effort.
Post by: Albeno69 on January 01, 2010, 09:21:06 pm
It's so true, it really is limited to certain schools and areas IMO.yea it just depends on the kind of students you have it took my school till end of yr 11 to expell all the d**ks who didnt wanna lean and disrupted the class. I have seen a teach swear walk out and then retire the day after. not a good thing.
I have seen teacehrs SWORN at (in their face), given the finger, and have their accents bagged.
Yet when I went to another school in year 9 this was non-existent. Classes were absolutely quiet when the teacher talked, and the connection between student/teacehr was very close.
Post by: Albeno69 on January 01, 2010, 09:36:01 pm
Which then leads to the teacher shortage we have.
The really diffuclyt thing is, is that its the GRADUATE TEACHERS who get targeted the most due to inexperience/difficulty etc, and they then have a bad impression of teaching, and may quit.
In Perth I heard they have established schools where disruptive students are placed. I think they should do it ehre as well, where people who get suspended many times, and are disruptive get sent there. And over at the institutions they should have really tog uh line teacehrs, so we can get rid of the idiots which plague our system and make learning difficult for others.
Seriously, half the idiots only exist because they're forced to come to school.
yea I totaly agree but the thing is that I don't think it's geting any better looking at the yr 7 there little shits, not all but some.
You see there mistreated and posibly underpaid but I'm not sure on that. Why would u want to become a teacher if ur not respected and posibly underpaid.
Post by: brightsky on January 01, 2010, 09:42:53 pm
Post by: Albeno69 on January 01, 2010, 09:48:05 pm
Yeah, there was a lot of hype about teachers getting underpaid. In fact, teachers are probably among the worst paid professionals (excluding the extraneous private tutors or private school educators).
I thought they were underpaid just not 100% shore.
Post by: Albeno69 on January 01, 2010, 09:49:47 pm
Post by: Albeno69 on January 01, 2010, 09:55:35 pm
Post by: QuantumJG on January 01, 2010, 10:00:19 pm
Which then leads to the teacher shortage we have.
The really diffuclyt thing is, is that its the GRADUATE TEACHERS who get targeted the most due to inexperience/difficulty etc, and they then have a bad impression of teaching, and may quit.
In Perth I heard they have established schools where disruptive students are placed. I think they should do it ehre as well, where people who get suspended many times, and are disruptive get sent there. And over at the institutions they should have really tog uh line teacehrs, so we can get rid of the idiots which plague our system and make learning difficult for others.
Seriously, half the idiots only exist because they're forced to come to school.
yea I totaly agree but the thing is that I don't think it's geting any better looking at the yr 7 there little shits, not all but some.
You see there mistreated and posibly underpaid but I'm not sure on that. Why would u want to become a teacher if ur not respected and posibly underpaid.
There is absolutely no way I could become a teacher (Just think of the kids you would have to put up with), I have emotional scars from being at primary school and junior high school. I personally would like to be an academic, expanding my knowledge and giving lectures about my field.
Post by: Albeno69 on January 01, 2010, 10:04:29 pm
Which then leads to the teacher shortage we have.
The really diffuclyt thing is, is that its the GRADUATE TEACHERS who get targeted the most due to inexperience/difficulty etc, and they then have a bad impression of teaching, and may quit.
In Perth I heard they have established schools where disruptive students are placed. I think they should do it ehre as well, where people who get suspended many times, and are disruptive get sent there. And over at the institutions they should have really tog uh line teacehrs, so we can get rid of the idiots which plague our system and make learning difficult for others.
Seriously, half the idiots only exist because they're forced to come to school.
yea I totaly agree but the thing is that I don't think it's geting any better looking at the yr 7 there little shits, not all but some.
You see there mistreated and posibly underpaid but I'm not sure on that. Why would u want to become a teacher if ur not respected and posibly underpaid.
There is absolutely no way I could become a teacher (Just think of the kids you would have to put up with), I have emotional scars from being at primary school and junior high school. I personally would like to be an academic, expanding my knowledge and giving lectures about my field.
Yea from what i see people do at school i work with i teacher and she doing intership or somthing at a high end school, grammar school ext, and the kids arnt rude they just think that they own everything and she goes the kids constantly say i pay u now do wat i want. not if a kid said that to me and im 25 i would probably struggle to hold myself from hitting the kid personally.
Post by: Albeno69 on January 01, 2010, 10:09:59 pm
Post by: QuantumJG on January 01, 2010, 10:26:57 pm
Which then leads to the teacher shortage we have.
The really diffuclyt thing is, is that its the GRADUATE TEACHERS who get targeted the most due to inexperience/difficulty etc, and they then have a bad impression of teaching, and may quit.
In Perth I heard they have established schools where disruptive students are placed. I think they should do it ehre as well, where people who get suspended many times, and are disruptive get sent there. And over at the institutions they should have really tog uh line teacehrs, so we can get rid of the idiots which plague our system and make learning difficult for others.
Seriously, half the idiots only exist because they're forced to come to school.
yea I totaly agree but the thing is that I don't think it's geting any better looking at the yr 7 there little shits, not all but some.
You see there mistreated and posibly underpaid but I'm not sure on that. Why would u want to become a teacher if ur not respected and posibly underpaid.
There is absolutely no way I could become a teacher (Just think of the kids you would have to put up with), I have emotional scars from being at primary school and junior high school. I personally would like to be an academic, expanding my knowledge and giving lectures about my field.
Yea from what i see people do at school i work with i teacher and she doing intership or somthing at a high end school, grammar school ext, and the kids arnt rude they just think that they own everything and she goes the kids constantly say i pay u now do wat i want. not if a kid said that to me and im 25 i would probably struggle to hold myself from hitting the kid personally.
Yeah students at any school you work at, would have some some way to attack you emotionally. Public schools would have abusive students and private schools would have students discussing socioeconomic status with you.
Post by: Albeno69 on January 01, 2010, 10:29:39 pm
Which then leads to the teacher shortage we have.
The really diffuclyt thing is, is that its the GRADUATE TEACHERS who get targeted the most due to inexperience/difficulty etc, and they then have a bad impression of teaching, and may quit.
In Perth I heard they have established schools where disruptive students are placed. I think they should do it ehre as well, where people who get suspended many times, and are disruptive get sent there. And over at the institutions they should have really tog uh line teacehrs, so we can get rid of the idiots which plague our system and make learning difficult for others.
Seriously, half the idiots only exist because they're forced to come to school.
yea I totaly agree but the thing is that I don't think it's geting any better looking at the yr 7 there little shits, not all but some.
You see there mistreated and posibly underpaid but I'm not sure on that. Why would u want to become a teacher if ur not respected and posibly underpaid.
There is absolutely no way I could become a teacher (Just think of the kids you would have to put up with), I have emotional scars from being at primary school and junior high school. I personally would like to be an academic, expanding my knowledge and giving lectures about my field.
Yea from what i see people do at school i work with i teacher and she doing intership or somthing at a high end school, grammar school ext, and the kids arnt rude they just think that they own everything and she goes the kids constantly say i pay u now do wat i want. not if a kid said that to me and im 25 i would probably struggle to hold myself from hitting the kid personally.
Yeah students at any school you work at, would have some some way to attack you emotionally. Public schools would have abusive students and private schools would have students discussing socioeconomic status with you.
so true. And they wonder wehy ppl dont want to become high school teachers.
Post by: QuantumJG on January 01, 2010, 10:52:28 pm
yea but i dont think it will ever get better until the generation changes and i dont thing that will be for awhile.
If you think about it our generations are probably becoming more appreciative with education than what people did in the past. In my parent's day, you didn't require a degree to do jobs that require a degree now (well you had a few more doors open back then without a degree). Also the number of people holding bachelor degrees is increasing.
The only new thing our generation has with bullying, is that bullies have new media to bully their peers with. I can't really say it's worse now, we are just looking at it's effects more closely now. Let me rephrase this, you have the same bullies finding new ways to invent the same wheel.
Ultimately you cannot expect a change in primal human nature (I.e. To try and oppress your peers) through new generations.
Post by: Albeno69 on January 01, 2010, 10:54:17 pm
yea but i dont think it will ever get better until the generation changes and i dont thing that will be for awhile.
If you think about it our generations are probably becoming more appreciative with education than what people did in the past. In my parent's day, you didn't require a degree to do jobs that require a degree now (well you had a few more doors open back then without a degree). Also the number of people holding bachelor degrees is increasing.
The only new thing our generation has with bullying, is that bullies have new media to bully their peers with. I can't really say it's worse now, we are just looking at it's effects more closely now. Let me rephrase this, you have the same bullies finding new ways to invent the same wheel.
Ultimately you cannot expect a change in primal human nature (I.e. To try and oppress your peers) through new generations.
totaly agree.
Post by: kyzoo on January 02, 2010, 12:16:06 pm
Also I haven't really seen teachers get bullied, except once when a substitute teacher was crying at the end of the class.
Post by: brightsky on January 02, 2010, 12:56:43 pm
No offence meant to the following post to teachers that find their job relaxing while also teaching competently. There are always exceptions to such cases, but I know a teacher who was new to my school. He taught me two subjects and did jack all teaching. In classtimes, the most productive lessons were made through "discussions" with the class about the topic, while he stood and watched, occasionally pointing to raised hands to indicate that it was their turn to give their opinion. However, frequent were the discussions off topic, and the initial debate on "Was such and such motive justified?" quickly turned into one about tattoos and how gangsta looking it was. After such fruitless "teaching", the teacher would assign as projects where he did not give us any guidance or headway in, and ask us to research it, then write up what you've researched. After a week of searching for the most minute details of stuff on the web, we'll hand in the project, and it would literally disappear in the hands of the teacher. After nearly 6 months, a score would appear on your report (just a graded score), but the project itself was still lost forever. Coming to think about it, if you need not do any class preparation, or have all the time you want to correct homework, without any set standards in terms of feedback, a teacher's job would be soooo easy! Again, there are exceptions, but this is just one example I know of.
Post by: *ryan777* on January 03, 2010, 01:05:48 am
At my primary school, one of the Japanese teachers got "bashed" by a year 6 kid. The teacher was a permanent teacher, but he was really soft and against violence, so all he did was saying stuff to calm the kid down, while recieving blow for blow in kicks and punches.
No offence meant to the following post to teachers that find their job relaxing while also teaching competently. There are always exceptions to such cases, but I know a teacher who was new to my school. He taught me two subjects and did jack all teaching. In classtimes, the most productive lessons were made through "discussions" with the class about the topic, while he stood and watched, occasionally pointing to raised hands to indicate that it was their turn to give their opinion. However, frequent were the discussions off topic, and the initial debate on "Was such and such motive justified?" quickly turned into one about tattoos and how gangsta looking it was. After such fruitless "teaching", the teacher would assign as projects where he did not give us any guidance or headway in, and ask us to research it, then write up what you've researched. After a week of searching for the most minute details of stuff on the web, we'll hand in the project, and it would literally disappear in the hands of the teacher. After nearly 6 months, a score would appear on your report (just a graded score), but the project itself was still lost forever. Coming to think about it, if you need not do any class preparation, or have all the time you want to correct homework, without any set standards in terms of feedback, a teacher's job would be soooo easy! Again, there are exceptions, but this is just one example I know of.
WTF?! bashed as in seriously injured or what?
i knew teachers have to take a lot of crap but thats pathetic, that kid needs to learn some respect "the hard way" before he is bashing people day in day out as an adult