ATAR Notes: Forum

General Discussion => General Discussion Boards => Rants and Debate => Topic started by: _____ on June 20, 2017, 09:36:58 pm

Title: Should we have the right to die?
Post by: _____ on June 20, 2017, 09:36:58 pm
I think we should, no matter the reasoning - terminal illness or not. What do you think?
Title: Re: Should we have the right to die?
Post by: keltingmeith on June 20, 2017, 10:04:17 pm
I certainly agree to the point that people should be allowed to be euthanized with medical consultation, but I think it's a bit of a slippery slope once mental illness becomes involved. The question I think that's more of point is who makes the decision, and how are we making sure they're of a sound mind to make that decision?
Title: Re: Should we have the right to die?
Post by: patriciarose on June 20, 2017, 10:14:54 pm
Quote from: _____ on June 20, 2017, 09:36:58 pm
I think we should, no matter the reasoning - terminal illness or not. What do you think?

that's a little beyond euthanasia, hm. i feel like the problem with legalising that would be that you have no idea whether the person wanting to die is possibly mentally compromised at the point they request to die? you need to be mentally capable of making such an important decision because it literally can't be taken back. saying 'no matter the reasoning' is basically saying 'whatever whim you decide to die on is a-okay' and that's not exactly true because we do sort of have a responsibility to other people to make sure they don't do something they'd later regret? you'd have to be pretty damn sure you want to die before you go around making decisions that big, and many mental illnesses essentially compromise your ability to be sure outside of that illness (ie. depression makes you feel like life's not worth living, but you'd feel differently without depression). idk. i feel like that would be a hard thing to allow without potentially putting a lot of bad decisions on your conscience.

(so ... basically everything the above post says, haha. wrote this before i realised you'd answered, oops.)
Title: Re: Should we have the right to die?
Post by: Calebark on June 20, 2017, 10:27:11 pm
Just here to echo the above responses, really.

I feel like it's perfectly valid with medical consultation and provided the patient is not in a compromised state of mind. To allow somebody struggling with depression or another mental illness to hold that decision is to place the decision in the hands of their illness, not themselves -- that is, to place it with somebody in a compromised state of mind.
Title: Re: Should we have the right to die?
Post by: heids on June 20, 2017, 11:04:48 pm
Trigger warning on this post: I discuss suicide very directly as someone personally familiar with it, and this topic is all about suicide (euthanasia and suicide have no distinct boundaries that separate them).

I mean, to some extent, we do have that right: suicide isn't criminalised can you fkn believe that a suicide attempt used to receive the death penalty?! ???, though you can be involuntarily committed to a psych ward and/or suicide watch and your life saved directly against your will.

While I in no way believe suicide to be a "sinful" or "selfish" or "cowardly" act, it does have an incredibly huge impact on others. Like, huger than the sufferer could possibly imagine. I compleeeeeetely don't condemn those who attempt suicide (or I'd be condemning myself), but I don't feel a life belongs only to you: it also belongs in some part to all who love you, so no, I don't believe you have the simple right to take it whenever you choose. It is in some way taking part of the life of many others, if that makes sense? I think one does owe others something, though that can be lost when the pain is simply unbearable.

Euthanasia is essentially deciding that life will no longer ever have enough good to be worth going through the predicted bad (illness, pain etc).

But as everyone else has said - that's identical to the illusion mental illness tends to create, and mental illness is treatable and improvable.  Where do you draw the line and decide when that's a truth, and when it's a lie? 

What are your thoughts, ____?
Title: Re: Should we have the right to die?
Post by: EEEEEEP on June 20, 2017, 11:18:16 pm
Quote from: heids on June 20, 2017, 11:04:48 pm
Where do you draw the line and decide when that's a truth, and when it's a lie? 

What are your thoughts, ____?
It's very very hard to draw the line. Ask anyone and it will be a tough ask.

Less pain for person.. maybe you can heal someone till they're happy... eh... idk!
......
If you do it:
- WHY DID YOU END A LIFE? HE could of had a chance

IF you don't
- Why are you making him endure a life of pain?

Give me 20 years and I still won't have the answer. This is why I am on the fence with this and I can never give a definitive "Yes" or " No" answer.
Title: Re: Should we have the right to die?
Post by: patriciarose on June 20, 2017, 11:19:12 pm
everything heidi said, tbqh. thinking about it outside of a personal vacuum is important. (:

Quote from: heids on June 20, 2017, 11:04:48 pm
can you fkn believe that a suicide attempt used to receive the death penalty?! ???


oh god really? i know it's still criminal in some places but whoa okay that's a textbook example of irony omfg. like hey, you didn't manage it by yourself but that's okay, the government will ... help you finish the job. ??? #logic do you ever just kind of wonder what went on in the heads of people who made laws like that? lmao.

also i'd love to know what op thinks because they seem to be all for it? so the reasoning behind that would be interesting.
Title: Re: Should we have the right to die?
Post by: strawberries on June 20, 2017, 11:42:17 pm
I'm going to say yes, to an extent though (sorta agreeing with what others have said above).
Definitely should be allowed for serious physical illnesses.

Also, a question *trigger warning tho*
Spoiler
Quote
While I in no way believe suicide to be a "sinful" or "selfish" or "cowardly" act, it does have an incredibly huge impact on others. Like, huger than the sufferer could possibly imagine. I compleeeeeetely don't condemn those who attempt suicide (or I'd be condemning myself), but I don't feel a life belongs only to you: it also belongs in some part to all who love you, so no, I don't believe you have the simple right to take it whenever you choose. It is in some way taking part of the life of many others, if that makes sense? I think one does owe others something, though that can be lost when the pain is simply unbearable.
Suicide - what if someone doesn't have 'loved ones' and thus it "won't affect anyone"? Should it be allowed in this case?
Title: Re: Should we have the right to die?
Post by: keltingmeith on June 21, 2017, 12:07:32 am
Response to the above, spoilered cuz why not:
Spoiler
However, those who are mentally impaired, particularly by depression, have a habit of not being able to accurately see those around them for what they are. In that way, it's easy to misinterpret someone's care as not caring.

And let's say they have no family or friends - maybe you buying coffee in the morning and having the 5 second chat to the barista is enough to put a smile on their face? Our actions are far reaching and I don't think it's possible to claim there's even a single example of a death that nobody will grieve.


The administrative team have discussed and decided that due to the turn that the conversation took, to prevent suicide contagion it would be best for everyone if we lock the topic. Remember, if you are currently having issues with suicidal and depressive thoughts that there are services (ways to get in touch to some below) in which you can speak to someone about any problems you might have.

Lifeline: 13 11 14
Kids Helpline: 1800 55 1800
Beyond Blue: https://www.beyondblue.org.au/get-support/get-immediate-support (includes a phone number, internet chat service, and e-mail)
Headspace: https://eheadspace.org.au/ (includes a phone number, internet chat service, and e-mail)