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Administration => Site Discussion => Suggestions => Topic started by: Toothpaste on January 29, 2008, 04:46:01 pm

Title: Some poll controversy
Post by: Toothpaste on January 29, 2008, 04:46:01 pm
 :police:

Moderator action
This thread is the remnant of an argument about some poll. It will be closed and is only up for archive purposes.
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: costargh on January 29, 2008, 04:50:05 pm
He's already decided and doesn't want any more input.
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: enwiabe on January 29, 2008, 04:58:28 pm
Nope, I want constructive input. Toothpick just loves to rebel. Seriously, this is just another one of her attention grabs.
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: Toothpaste on January 29, 2008, 05:00:37 pm
Nope, I want constructive input. Toothpick just loves to rebel. Seriously, this is just another one of her attention grabs.
lol
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: Collin Li on January 29, 2008, 05:05:31 pm
enwiabe: how about you look at the votes rather than jump to conclusions?
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: enwiabe on January 29, 2008, 05:12:08 pm
Well, when I initially put it to people in IRC and on MSN, the reaction was mixed with more people liking it than disliking it. I think two things have happened.

1) People have been swayed by popular opinion
2) People were lying in order to save the person who made it any grief
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: Mao on January 29, 2008, 05:13:56 pm
Well, when I initially put it to people in IRC and on MSN, the reaction was mixed with more people liking it than disliking it. I think two things have happened.

1) People have been swayed by popular opinion
2) People were lying in order to save the person who made it any grief
:'( prav....... dont get shitty at us :P

and btw enwiabe you dont have to constantly justify yourself, people get tired of it and think u r an egotistical idiot, it doesnt hurt to let go of past decisions and agree with other people's ideas even tho it's against urs
if worst come to worst and it turned out wrong, THEN sholve crap in their face, dont just assume they're no good :P
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: enwiabe on January 29, 2008, 05:15:07 pm
I actually think it's really rude and mean the way people like Costa (though I wouldn't expect much tact from him) and Toothpick have gone about this public humiliation of Prav. But, you know, it just speaks volumes about their (lack of) character.
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: Collin Li on January 29, 2008, 05:16:35 pm
Nice twist enwiabe, but remember that you're the person who accused Toothpick of being an attention seeker.
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: enwiabe on January 29, 2008, 05:18:38 pm
It's not a twist. Toothpick holding a public poll where everyone rains shit on Prav? Costa doing a fake logo mocking Prav's creation? I don't think it's right.
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: Collin Li on January 29, 2008, 05:19:51 pm
Sorry, but the poll was not worded "who thinks Prav's logo is shit?" I bet most of the voters didn't even know who made it.

They just don't like the logo, alright?
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: Toothpaste on January 29, 2008, 05:22:27 pm
I actually think it's really rude and mean the way people like Costa (though I wouldn't expect much tact from him) and Toothpick have gone about this public humiliation of Prav. But, you know, it just speaks volumes about their (lack of) character.
So you also think the logo is a public humiliation?

Now you try to make it out as we're attacking Prav. We're not, it's feedback on the logo and not the creator of the logo.

But you know. You're the admin, abuse your power all you want.
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: Collin Li on January 29, 2008, 05:22:58 pm
Yes, enwiabe is setting up a straw-man here. We are attacking the logo, not Prav. Don't use him as your human shield.
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: enwiabe on January 29, 2008, 05:23:15 pm
Subtle? It was mockery, pure and simple. Collin, people had been voicing their discontent in the main thread. That's fine, and I welcomed that input, but what Toothpick did was see that people didnt' like it and turned it into a public showing of humiliation for Prav. How do you think he's going to feel when he logs on to see that 90% of people disliked the logo he spent hours on? Nice work, Toothpick. :)
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: Collin Li on January 29, 2008, 05:26:07 pm
You continue to ignore that this poll is about the logo, and not about Prav.

This poll is a challenge to your claim that "everyone else" liked it. It seems fair to me.
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: Mao on January 29, 2008, 05:26:49 pm
Subtle? It was mockery, pure and simple. Collin, people had been voicing their discontent in the main thread. That's fine, and I welcomed that input, but what Toothpick did was see that people didnt' like it and turned it into a public showing of humiliation for Prav. How do you think he's going to feel when he logs on to see that 90% of people disliked the logo he spent hours on? Nice work, Toothpick. :)
if i know prav he would take it like a man and do a better one according to people's suggestions, not whinge and cry about other people's complaints, so stop bitching for him!
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: costargh on January 29, 2008, 05:27:43 pm
Why should we have to sugarcoat our criticisms over the logo?

costa ur userbar is too plain and it looks crap, do something else  ;D ;D <------ in the nicest possible way xD
Thanks Mao lol. I know its crap. I just havent done anything like this before and im not too good but it will do. hehe I wnated one like Collins but didnt know how to do it =( haha
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: Collin Li on January 29, 2008, 05:28:20 pm
Subtle? It was mockery, pure and simple. Collin, people had been voicing their discontent in the main thread. That's fine, and I welcomed that input, but what Toothpick did was see that people didnt' like it and turned it into a public showing of humiliation for Prav. How do you think he's going to feel when he logs on to see that 90% of people disliked the logo he spent hours on? Nice work, Toothpick. :)
if i know prav he would take it like a man and do a better one according to people's suggestions, not whinge and cry about other people's complaints, so stop bitching for him!

That's probably true too.

Also, Toothpick worded the poll neutrally. Toothpick is not 90% of the voters. 90% of the voters share this burden (of hurting Prav potentially), not Toothpick alone. She did not rally against him, she just asked a question.
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: enwiabe on January 29, 2008, 05:28:46 pm
You continue to ignore that this poll is about the logo, and not about Prav.

This poll is a challenge to your claim that "everyone else" liked it. It seems fair to me.

Except that words hurt. Okay, so I was wrong about public opinion, that's being shown very clearly in the main thread. It didn't NEED another poll, but Toothpick took it upon herself to do it. Well, good on her. :)
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: Collin Li on January 29, 2008, 05:30:34 pm
You continue to ignore that this poll is about the logo, and not about Prav.

This poll is a challenge to your claim that "everyone else" liked it. It seems fair to me.

Except that words hurt. Okay, so I was wrong about public opinion, that's being shown very clearly in the main thread. It didn't NEED another poll, but Toothpick took it upon herself to do it. Well, good on her. :)

What's wrong with numbers and statistics? The truth will set you free.
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: enwiabe on January 29, 2008, 05:32:28 pm
The numbers and statistics were being shown in that thread. It didn't NEED a second post.
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: Collin Li on January 29, 2008, 05:34:08 pm
Here is an easy way to see the consensus of the community (rather than counting unique posts in the other thread). Why not? It's not like we're running short of server space mate.

Let's talk constructive criticism now. The consensus is more or less defined now.
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: enwiabe on January 29, 2008, 05:35:38 pm
Here is an easy way to see the consensus of the community (rather than counting unique posts in the other thread). Why not? It's not like we're running short of server space mate.

Let's talk constructive criticism now. The consensus is more or less defined now.

The consensus had already been established in the other thread, though! Everyone was giving their constructive criticism, so obviously there was a consensus that it wasn't well liked. Why the need for a second post, then?
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: Collin Li on January 29, 2008, 05:36:43 pm
Here is an easy way to see the consensus of the community (rather than counting unique posts in the other thread). Why not? It's not like we're running short of server space mate.

Let's talk constructive criticism now. The consensus is more or less defined now.

The consensus had already been established in the other thread, though! Everyone was giving their constructive criticism, so obviously there was a consensus that it wasn't well liked. Why the need for a second post, then?

What about quiet voters? There might have been a good turnout of yes that was intimidated. This poll doesn't show who voted for what. That is a good thing. This poll tested that (and it was proven incorrect).
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: enwiabe on January 29, 2008, 05:38:45 pm
It doesn't matter about the quiet voters because their voice was heard through those voicing their discontent. This post was completely unnecessary - not that I expected any less.
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: Collin Li on January 29, 2008, 05:39:58 pm
It doesn't matter about the quiet voters because their voice was heard through those voicing their discontent. This post was completely unnecessary - not that I expected any less.

Huh? Did you even read my post? I said that this poll had the possibility of representing a "content" vote. There may have been quiet "yes" voters.
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: enwiabe on January 29, 2008, 05:41:32 pm
Heh, I misread your post. And no, Toothpick had already seen the discontent of the other thread. It was already established when she posted it. I'm going to be skeptical here and impugn her motives as being less than constructive. :)
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: Collin Li on January 29, 2008, 05:43:14 pm
Heh, I misread your post. And no, Toothpick had already seen the discontent of the other thread. It was already established when she posted it. I'm going to be skeptical here and impugn her motives as being less than constructive. :)

Well, that is a baseless assumption and I think we're back to square zero. Let's stop with the accusations and start with the constructive criticism - that will actually take us somewhere we want to go.
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: enwiabe on January 29, 2008, 05:45:59 pm
Heh, I misread your post. And no, Toothpick had already seen the discontent of the other thread. It was already established when she posted it. I'm going to be skeptical here and impugn her motives as being less than constructive. :)

Well, that is a baseless assumption and I think we're back to square zero. Let's stop with the accusations and start with the constructive criticism - that will actually take us somewhere we want to go.

It's NOT baseless, though. It's going off the fact that there was already a thread voicing disapproval of the logo and she went and created ANOTHER one.
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: Collin Li on January 29, 2008, 05:47:13 pm
Sigh, I have already shown you reasons why a poll is different to a thread with voiced opinions. Meanwhile, you continue to assume her motives are only bad. Your arrogance is causing blowback.
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: enwiabe on January 29, 2008, 05:50:49 pm
Just a note on this thread: Point taken about the disapproval, but I'd prefer it if Prav only saw the criticism of the main thread. Also, this was a nasty spat that went way off topic, so yeah, give it 5 minutes before this is deleted. Further Note: No posts in the other thread will be touched.
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: Collin Li on January 29, 2008, 05:52:22 pm
I disagree with the deletion of this thread. I would like to see this argument remain here, and you have continued to ignore my advice about blowback. Stop pretending Prav is your child and stop trying to shield him from the truth.

This is not an attack on him - this thread is more of an attack on your arrogance (in the assumptions you make about people's motives). Deleting it under the guise of protecting Prav from criticism is a cop-out.
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: enwiabe on January 29, 2008, 05:54:38 pm
Toothpick said it herself that the point of this thread was to prove me wrong about the approval rating of the logo. This has been done, and I see no reason for it to be left up.
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: Collin Li on January 29, 2008, 05:55:12 pm
We don't delete threads on this forum because the topic poster's intentions are finished. We leave them up for everyone to see.
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: enwiabe on January 29, 2008, 05:57:08 pm
I've already told you that that's not the reason. I'm saying that no further discussion should be entered into on the matter. Further, as I've said, it was a nasty off-topic spat, and I don't see a reason for it to be left up. If I only wanted to save my own self, I'd just delete the argument posts, but I would like to delete this post simply because it is unnecessary.
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: Collin Li on January 29, 2008, 05:58:47 pm
I have already told you that it is not unnecessary. It proves a point and it will not make someone else wonder "maybe there is a quiet yes vote!"

Don't delete the thread. Threads progress and diverge, like this one, and this argument has a wealth of knowledge.
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: Collin Li on January 29, 2008, 05:59:19 pm
I've already told you that that's not the reason.

What do you mean?

Toothpick said it herself that the point of this thread was to prove me wrong about the approval rating of the logo. This has been done, and I see no reason for it to be left up.
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: Collin Li on January 29, 2008, 06:01:18 pm
How do you think I feel that my perfectly legitimate defence of private polling is going to be deleted? I think this argument has merits, and should not be deleted.
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: enwiabe on January 29, 2008, 06:02:04 pm
Quote
AND I see no reason for it to be left up.
Hence, coming back to the point that it's

1) off topic
2) a spat
3) unnecessary
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: Collin Li on January 29, 2008, 06:04:04 pm
1) off-topic
This thread has progressed and diverged like any other thread. This is typical thread evolution, and the arguments on it have some merit, and are worth keeping. At worst, just close the thread.

2) a spat
Not sure what you mean.

3) unnecessary
It proves a point and it will not make someone else wonder "maybe there is a quiet yes vote!"
Title: Re: Some poll controversy
Post by: brendan on January 29, 2008, 08:28:25 pm
WTF happened here?