Who believes in evolution?

[mark_alec]

You are right. We cannot prove irrefutably that evolution as we understand it today is the *sole* cause for all the life we see on Earth. But, it is a very useful theory that has provided more answers than any competing theory.

That is, pragmatically, believing in evolution is more useful than believing in Intelligent Design, Creationism or Lamarckism.

[TrueLight]

it is very useful and good logical theory i agree on that.... but i don't see anything wrong with people believing in creationism, just as long as they dont FORCE their beliefs on others... they can tell them thier beliefs but dont say you must believe what i say because it is right etc... let people believe what they feel is right to believe or they want to believe

[mark_alec]

Unfortunately, there is a group of creationists that have a knack of saying "We don't want evolution taught in schools" and/or "They should teach alternative theories in schools."

That is forcing their belief onto people, because regardless of what individuals think, evolution *is* currently an integral part of modern biology.

[TrueLight]

hmmm thats why theres catholic schools, jewish schools, arab schools? ... so that if they want that taught to them they can choose to go there... but also evolution shouldnt be forced onto people to say yes this is how we came about this is the all and end all theory of everything... thats wrong too... people should just be taught to think for themselves and debate.....lol or as ron paul would say let the free market decide what we should do!

um its not directly relevant here, actually... it is directly relevant but i like ron pauls answer here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiVy2NbWcgo

i loled at 6:27-6:42

[Glockmeister]

hmmm thats why theres catholic schools, jewish schools, arab schools? ... so that if they want that taught to them they can choose to go there... but also evolution shouldnt be forced onto people to say yes this is how we came about this is the all and end all theory of everything... thats wrong too... people should just be taught to think for themselves and debate.....lol or as ron paul would say let the free market decide what we should do!

um its not directly relevant here, actually... it is directly relevant but i like ron pauls answer here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiVy2NbWcgo

i loled at 6:27-6:42

That's the thing, how could you expect high school students to be able to debate things like these? In any case, it's not something that should be deal as a 'free market' thing. The scientific community, by and large, agrees with this theory, which is why it is taught like so in Science classes, like it should (it doesn't happen in all schools, even here as I only found out this year).

[TrueLight]

i think he means dont get the federal government involved in what gets taught at schools and if schools want to teach evolution then so be it.... which u say most do then thats perfectly ok   u says something like this at 5:42
i think he wants more private schools not public because the funding comes from the government who get controlled by certain peoples belief but eh...

but personally hey i get taught all this stuff and i dont mind it its very useful as i said

[/0]

lol my school's like, if you don't go to christian education you can go to another school
I reckon they should ban compulsory C.E., i mean they [evidently] don't have compulsory evolution do they

[TrueTears]

I wagged all CE classes.

[TrueLight]

yeah but you voluntary went to a catholic school right? and you knew it was compulsory before you went? and if that was the biggest problem, then you wouldn't have gone to that school?

[Mao]

hmmm thats why theres catholic schools, jewish schools, arab schools? ... so that if they want that taught to them they can choose to go there... but also evolution shouldnt be forced onto people to say yes this is how we came about this is the all and end all theory of everything... thats wrong too... people should just be taught to think for themselves and debate.....lol or as ron paul would say let the free market decide what we should do!

Evolution isn't forced onto people, people accept it because it is a good theory, like general relativity. If religion doesn't want it, then I guess these people should not study modern biology.

[excal]

That is true, personal 'tests' can definitely be flawed, their reliability must be judged case by case.
In an earlier post you identified yourself as Catholic, I am going to assume you have witnessed an event from which you know God exists.
This is something I am referring to as a 'personal test'. Are you saying that your acknowledgement of God is flawed?

The nature of my belief of God is none of your business, to be frank. Using this kind of argument is also known as ad hominem, which is a bad thing.

[/0]

yeah but you voluntary went to a catholic school right? and you knew it was compulsory before you went? and if that was the biggest problem, then you wouldn't have gone to that school?

No offense, but I think religion is one the last things many of my friends would have considered when choosing a school. I've been to another Anglican school and the general sentiment was the same. I think that most non-religious/agnostic students/parents would think of the school's religion as an incidental thing, and they are more concerned with the academic/social reputation of the school. I think the number of religious schools is pretty disproportionate to the number of religious students in Australia - to rule out certain schools because of religious programs would be ruling out a massive chunk of possibilities.

[TrueLight]

thats exactly my point that is why i said IF it was the biggest problem... so it wasn't for you, thats why you still went...but the option is still there for students who absolutely want that religion taught to them... and so you can't just go i don't religion to not be in catholic schools...(which quie frankyl i don't remember you writing oh wellz... lol)

[/0]

thats exactly my point that is why i said IF it was the biggest problem... so it wasn't for you, thats why you still went...but the option is still there for students who absolutely want that religion taught to them... and so you can't just go i don't religion to not be in catholic schools...(which quie frankyl i don't remember you writing oh wellz... lol)

haha you do have a point

[QuantumJG]

Unfortunately, there is a group of creationists that have a knack of saying "We don't want evolution taught in schools" and/or "They should teach alternative theories in schools."

That is forcing their belief onto people, because regardless of what individuals think, evolution *is* currently an integral part of modern biology.

This is so true an I will give you a bit of my history.

It took me until the age of 16 to learn about the theory of evolution. The main reason is that my grandparents are catholic and they raised my parents as Catholics (I.e going to a catholic school, church, etc), but, now they don't go to church mainly because they only did when they were young because it was forced on them. They allowed me to choose my beliefs (despite my grandparents trying to intervene) because they thought what their parents did by forcing a religion on someone is morally wrong.

At family gatherings (especially when my father's sister's kids have their conformation) I have to keep this knowledge (theory of evolution) of mine to myself, especially if my cousins ask me as to if I ever had my
conformation. I respect my relatives religous beliefs because I love them, but something tells me that the
feeling would not be mutual. My parents would probably get blamed for why I believe in evolution.

The ironic part of this though is that I don't use evolution to explain the origin of life, I use it to understand how life has advanced. I will never believe that god created life for two pretty good reasons:

- People assume god is a man (why not a woman - 21st century and we still have this man>woman view - disgusting.), hence, if god is a man why did the most primal creatures reproduce from splitting or asexually reproducing.

- Matter can NOT be created as this violates the biggest principle of physics (conservation of energy).

So how life started on Earth is still an open question, like with the big bang theory we know what happened ~10^-41 seconds after, but at time t=0?, Here is an even better question: "does time t = 0" even exist? Yes I know this sounds contradictory but it could be like a mathematical function where f(0) does not exist, but, as t -> 0 you will get something.