Who believes in evolution?

[/0]

To be honest, I believe the kazaks created the universe, but anyway.....

Evolution ftw, I remember in year 8 religion class when the teacher tried to claim that God caused evolution.....................I raged!

LOL I remember in year 9 my C.E. teacher showed us a video on the Big Bang (which he probably thought supported his creationist views), but then somehow segued into evolution and tried to convince people that since mutations happen so slowly and since humans are so complex, evolution can't be right... kinda going on gut feelings instead of evidence... made me feel sick.

[kamil9876]

How does us being the centre have anything to do with evolution debates?

I'll assume this is in response to my post. What I tried to point out is, spot the trends:


Heliocentrism:

"God loves us, therefore we cannot be at centre of universe."

Fastforward a few centuries:

"Okay, maybe we are not in the geometric centre and we were wrong, but still, god loves us and we are in the centre metaphorically."

Evolution:


"God loves us and created us from/in his image, therefore we cannot come from apes".

See if there is a fastforward scenario for this one. In other words, have we learnt from our mistake about heliocentrism? does this maybe suggest that our scientific understanding of the physical universe has no bearing on spiritual beliefs as the latter is analytically independant of the former?

[TrueLight]

Understand this: humans are not primates! Yes, we do fit the technical definition of having flexible hands and feet with five digits, but beyond that there is no reasonable comparison to make. We don’t have primate bone density (theirs is far more robust than ours) or muscular strength (pound for pound they are 5 to 10 times stronger than we are); but we do have foreheads; minimal brow ridges; small, rectangular-shaped eye sockets holding poor night-vision eyes; narrow nasal passages with noses that protrude off our faces; mouths that are flat rather than prognathous; we have chins; and we are bipedal.

Apart from those skeletal differences, we don’t have primate brains (that is an understatement!), throats (we can’t eat or drink and breathe at the same time; they can); voices (they can make loud calls, but we can modulate them into the tiny pieces of sound that make up words); body covering (they all have pelts of hair from head to toe, thick on the back and lighter on the front; we have no pelt and our thickness pattern is reversed); we cool ourselves by sweating profusely (they tend to pant, though some sweat lightly); we shed tears of emotion (no other primate does); we do not regulate our salt intake (all other primates do); we have a layer of fat of varying thickness attached to the underside of our skin, which primates do not have; that fat layer prevents wounds to our skin from healing as easily as wounds to primate skin; human females have no estrus cycle, as do all primates; but the number one difference between humans and primates is that humans have only 46 chromosomes while all higher primates have 48!

This last fact is the clincher. You can’t lose two entire chromosomes (think how much DNA that is!) from your supposedly “parent” species and somehow end up better. And not just better, a light year better! It defies logic to the point where any reasonable person should be willing to concede that something “special” happened in the case of humans, something well beyond the ordinary processes of life on Earth. And it did. The “missing” chromosomes, it turns out, are not actually missing. The second and third chromosomes in higher primates have somehow been spliced together (there is no other term for it) by an utterly inexplicable—some might call it “miraculous”— technique.

the author here makes good points

[QuantumJG]

One thing I would like to say is,

To state that human beings did not evolve from any lower order species implies that we are the perfect species, since, we believe we have started off the way we are and will end the way we are. In essence it means that no other species would ever surpass us. We are genetically closely related to the chimpanzee and also other species of apes. Evolution states that we had deviated from the same ancestor as what the ape did several millions of years ago. From fossil records we can build a timeline showing how primal forms of man became us.

One question I would like to ask is why were we put on planet Earth? This is some random spot on the milky way which is in itself is one galaxy in a group of several trillion (more).  

[ninwa]

To be honest, I believe the kazaks created the universe, but anyway.....

Evolution ftw, I remember in year 8 religion class when the teacher tried to claim that God caused evolution.....................I raged!

I know a rather devout Christian (the type that goes to church every Sunday morning and donates half their pay cheque to church etc.) who actually believes that.

[ninwa]

To state that human beings did not evolve from any lower order species implies that we are the perfect species, since, we believe we have started off the way we are and will end the way we are. In essence it means that no other species would ever surpass us.

That's a really good point. Those here who doubt the theory of evolution - is this what you think?

[minilunchbox]

What about neanderthals? Physiologically, our similarities are striking.  

[TrueLight]

something obviously happened but i dont think evolution is the definitive answer and the fossil record is pretty incomplete

and no we are not perfect


oh and also there has never been an observation of macro evolution so changing from one species to another

[Glockmeister]

How can you refute a someones theory? Just because you do not believe anothers theory does not mean you cannot see it as good from their perspective.
Of course I accept it as a theory, a good one for those who disagree with religion.


I believe science and religion work very well together when theories are refined to reality.
How does us being the centre have anything to do with evolution debates?

Ok, there's a difference between a layman's theory and the scientific definition of theory. What the layman calls a theory is probably more appropriately termed hypothesis in scientific discourse.

[QuantumJG]

@/0
Ok, but is there any evidence/testing of evolution? You didn't show any.
And I did say it was a good theory.

@Glockmeister
I didn't doubt the evolution that we can witness i.e. all your examples. Only the extension of these to our origins.

Why? Is there a rational reason to belief that these origin of viruses are inherently different our own origins?

Also, don't confuse evolution with abiogenesis.

abiogenesis now that is something I'll study these holidays! Sounds interesting

[m@tty]

Okay I didn't get 'made in Gods image' from the last post.

Quantum JG, I am going to assume since you used the word 'put' you were referring to God (or deity).

I believe.
The Earth was created for us, we do not know why here.

We are not perfect.

All I meant by theory was hypothesis.

[kamil9876]

Okay I didn't get 'made in Gods image' from the last post.

Pretty common phrase:

http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&source=hp&q=%22made+in+God%27s+image%22&btnG=Google+Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=%22made+in+God%27s+image%22&fp=8c424e7b4f85c6fc

[m@tty]

I did understand. Just not in your other post.

[Glockmeister]

Understand this: humans are not primates! Yes, we do fit the technical definition of having flexible hands and feet with five digits, but beyond that there is no reasonable comparison to make. We don’t have primate bone density (theirs is far more robust than ours) or muscular strength (pound for pound they are 5 to 10 times stronger than we are); but we do have foreheads; minimal brow ridges; small, rectangular-shaped eye sockets holding poor night-vision eyes; narrow nasal passages with noses that protrude off our faces; mouths that are flat rather than prognathous; we have chins; and we are bipedal.

Apart from those skeletal differences, we don’t have primate brains (that is an understatement!), throats (we can’t eat or drink and breathe at the same time; they can); voices (they can make loud calls, but we can modulate them into the tiny pieces of sound that make up words); body covering (they all have pelts of hair from head to toe, thick on the back and lighter on the front; we have no pelt and our thickness pattern is reversed); we cool ourselves by sweating profusely (they tend to pant, though some sweat lightly); we shed tears of emotion (no other primate does); we do not regulate our salt intake (all other primates do); we have a layer of fat of varying thickness attached to the underside of our skin, which primates do not have; that fat layer prevents wounds to our skin from healing as easily as wounds to primate skin; human females have no estrus cycle, as do all primates; but the number one difference between humans and primates is that humans have only 46 chromosomes while all higher primates have 48!

This last fact is the clincher. You can’t lose two entire chromosomes (think how much DNA that is!) from your supposedly “parent” species and somehow end up better. And not just better, a light year better! It defies logic to the point where any reasonable person should be willing to concede that something “special” happened in the case of humans, something well beyond the ordinary processes of life on Earth. And it did. The “missing” chromosomes, it turns out, are not actually missing. The second and third chromosomes in higher primates have somehow been spliced together (there is no other term for it) by an utterly inexplicable—some might call it “miraculous”— technique.

the author here makes good points

Remember a lot of DNA is non-coding i.e. junk DNA.

[TrueLight]

"Sam
Girard, OH
 Reply »
|Report Abuse |Judge it! |#23 Apr 19, 2008
mutations

In the twentieth century many genetic researchers tried to "accelerate evolution" by increasing mutation rates.12 This can be accomplished with ionizing radiation, like x-rays, or chemical mutagens. Researchers gave plants and fruit flies very high doses of radiation or other mutagens in hopes that new life forms, or at least improved organs, would result. Decades of this type of research resulted in repeated failure. Every mutation observed was deleterious to the organisms' survival. In the fruit fly research13 various mutations occurred--like legs coming out of eyes--but not one improved mutation was observed. Why? Because radiation is harmful, as the signs in hospitals warn pregnant patients. The pre-born child is more sensitive to mutagens, and thus has a higher likelihood of being harmed.  "

this is also a good point