Copeland Scholarship

[tram]

"selling point", as if students decide to get 99.85 instead of 99.90. :p

haha true But i think more in terms of when choosing what uni to go to-where unis put massive efforts into luring in the best students



In regards to the comment just above, what i gather i means from talking to the deputy dean, is that you only get the gurantee IF you are part of the chancellors scholars AND Copland program hence the part where they say "Guaranteed entry into the graduate program of their choice as listed under the Chancellor’s Scholars’ Program".

Only holding the Copland scholarship does not afford you the same guarantee. Let's face it though, if you've gotten 99.85 you've got a pretty good chance of getting into the JD with a CSP anyway, i believe statistics find that people that get above 99.50 get into the graduate course they want anyway in the majority of cases.

[Srash]

I got into Copland on 99.85 and the email which they sent me says "a guaranteed Commonwealth Supported Place in the University’s graduate law degree, the Melbourne JD", if you wanted that cleared up.

[Russ]

From my reading, yes.

[Geepers]

I got into Copland on 99.85 and the email which they sent me says "a guaranteed Commonwealth Supported Place in the University’s graduate law degree, the Melbourne JD", if you wanted that cleared up.

This seems so unfair that you can get guaranteed pathway with a Commerce degree but not with an Arts degree on the same ATAR of 99.85.  Both are legitimate pathways for JD.  Seriously WTF???

[Russ]

No more unfair than the idea of giving guaranteed places to high school students in the first place

[Geepers]

No more unfair than the idea of giving guaranteed places to high school students in the first place

Yes but if they are going to give guaranteed spots  then there should be no discrimination on the basis of which undergraduate degree one chooses when there is no particular prerequisite degree for admission.

[Russ]

It's not discrimination...

By your logic, all university courses should have the same ATAR requirement to get in...

[Geepers]

It's not discrimination...

By your logic, all university courses should have the same ATAR requirement to get in...

Que? How does that follow...

My point is that if two people have the same ATAR and seek entry into the same course i.e. the JD (not different courses) then there should be no discrimination regarding what they do in their undergraduate course, if there is no undergraduate course  prerequisite.

[VivaTequila]

The dux of our school got 99.75 and he received a scholarship to Sciences at Melbourne. I'm not sure if it was the Chancellor's Scholarship, because I remember he told me that he went to the head of Sciences and appealed to them.

[tram]

It's not discrimination...

By your logic, all university courses should have the same ATAR requirement to get in...

Que? How does that follow...

My point is that if two people have the same ATAR and seek entry into the same course i.e. the JD (not different courses) then there should be no discrimination regarding what they do in their undergraduate course, if there is no undergraduate course  prerequisite.

i can totally see where you comming from and how you think it's unfair. Essentailly it comes from this: the commerce faculty take their scolarships exceptionally seriously, (not talking about uni wide scholarships like nationals/access) but the offer a extremely wide range of scholarship-probably more then any other faculty. case in point-they're on an aggressive compaing to raise 5 million dollars for scholarships in the next 5 years, just for commerce students from alumni donations.

The reason that there is a guaranteed place, is NOT because this is something the university had decided, but something that the COMMERCE faculty itself has sought out and negotiated for their top achieving students.

It is not at all a case of a pre-req or anything like that, simply another (albeit rather big) selling point for the commerce faculty.

If you want to to get the same thing for arts students then the scholarship section of the arts department should probably lobby the law department like the commerce faculty presumably has.

The only way this is discrimination is through the fact that the commerce faculty has decided to 'discriminate' and give it's scholarships and use it's influence to help to commerce students as opposed to arts students.

[Geepers]

The Admissions Office pretty much confirmed what you have said above about the Commerce Faculty seeking pathways for their students.  I am not convinced on the distinction made by them between the Commerce faculty and the university...the Commerce faculty is just one part of the University. Apparently, the Copland Program though has been approved by the Board of Admissions.

What I think is unfair is the fact that the Law Faculty is not treating all future applicants in the same way.  By providing the guaranteed places to some with a 99.85 ATAR and not others, based on a preference to study Arts and not Commerce, can't be justified. Surely the Chancellor's Scholars criteria for guaranteed pathways was meant to apply across the board to all university students and not treat any one group of applicants preferentially? Whether they be Biomed, Science or Arts students with a desire to do Post-graduate Law.

[Russ]

My point is that if two people have the same ATAR and seek entry into the same course i.e. the JD (not different courses) then there should be no discrimination regarding what they do in their undergraduate course, if there is no undergraduate course  prerequisite.

ATAR is irrelevant for the JD, so it can't be considered discrimination. If you have the scholarship then you get to go in, NOT if you have an ATAR of 99.9+. The fact that some students got this scholarship with lower ATARs is again, not relevant, because it has nothing to do with the JD, only the Chancellor's Scholar's Program and the Commerce Copland Scholarship.

[Geepers]

How can ATAR be considered irrelevant for the JD? The FFP guarantee offered for the JD is based on ATAR for students with 99 plus. The criteria for Copland is only based on ATAR within the Commerce Faculty, there is no other requirement. The only requirement for Chancellors is ATAR.  Your distinction isn't logical.

[ulbasour]

The dux of our school got 99.75 and he received a scholarship to Sciences at Melbourne. I'm not sure if it was the Chancellor's Scholarship, because I remember he told me that he went to the head of Sciences and appealed to them.

how did he do that? is that legal??

[Russ]

^^^
As loathe as I am to judge this based on 2 lines on the internet, you'll find that the university has complete discretion in offering places/scholarships. They can decline a place to a 99.95 student if they find the student isn't one that they want.

How can ATAR be considered irrelevant for the JD? The FFP guarantee offered for the JD is based on ATAR for students with 99 plus. The criteria for Copland is only based on ATAR within the Commerce Faculty, there is no other requirement. The only requirement for Chancellors is ATAR.  Your distinction isn't logical.

ATAR is a requirement for scholarship X. Scholarship X offers Graduate position Y. ATAR is not a direct requirement for Graduate position Y.

Thus, it is not discrimination for different scholarships to have different ATAR requirements despite both offering access to Graduate Position Y.