National Education > General National Education Discussion
[offtopic] scaling, private vs public schools, etc
Starlight:
--- Quote from: xxEmoRussxx on March 22, 2012, 06:09:31 pm ---As many as you want until you a) run out of money b) run out of time c) run into the 10 year rule (you have to have completed your degree within 10 years of applying
And honours/masters/workforce/time off etc. there are plenty of them
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How come your name keeps changing? lol
Aurelian:
--- Quote from: Peanuts11 on March 25, 2012, 09:15:49 pm ---Aurelian, explain to me why so many of the 99.90+ers come from private schools and not from public schools if there is no distinct difference between private schools. Or are you saying that there is a marked difference in intelligence between your private school top-end and public school top-end? Moreso, why did you yourself attend Melbourne Grammar and spend the copious amounts of money if you thought you could receive the same education and compete with the state's best at a public school?
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Oh, I wasn't really saying any of those things actually... There is, unfortunately, a great disparity between private school education and much of the public school sector, so no I didn't think I'd receive the same quality education at a public school. Also, as an aside, I didn't spend the "copious amounts of money" because, as I explained in my previous post, I was lucky enough to be on scholarship.
--- Quote from: Peanuts11 on March 25, 2012, 09:15:49 pm ---"What's far more important is just, well, how good they actually are at *being* a doctor. I'm sure you'll agree there are many very intelligent people who'd make terrible doctors..."
This is irrelevant ^. When considering only their intelligence, I would rather have the smartest doctor then a less smarter counterpart. Intelligence in medicine is certainly a desirable quality and what makes you think that intelligence and being a good doctor aren't correlated?
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I think this is a bit silly. Would you really rather be treated by a more "intelligent" doctor who fails to realise you have cancer, than a less intelligent but better doctor (that is, a doctor more successful at treating his patients) who sees the signs early and saves your life...? You've also strawmanned me again; of course there's a correlation between being a good doctor and how 'intelligent' you are, I just denied that it was the only factor.
--- Quote from: Peanuts11 on March 25, 2012, 09:15:49 pm ---pi and Cam, what you are suggesting is that academic fate should be determined on a scholarship/MHS etc. Then effectively your academic future is sealed at around year 8. Hardly fair at all, not everyone is studious at the age of 12/13. Should this rule them out from high-end professions?
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No we're not suggesting this at all, and I'll agree with you wholeheartedly; it isn't fair at all, and I wish it weren't this way. But, as Russ said, it *is* this way, unfortunately.
Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience
pi:
--- Quote from: Peanuts11 on March 25, 2012, 09:15:49 pm ---Or are you saying that there is a marked difference in intelligence between your private school top-end and public school top-end?
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If you measure intelligence by ATAR alone, then that's probably true. The MGS top-end (for example) was definitely better than the MHS/Mac.Rob top-end ATAR-wise.
If intelligence is not only ATAR, its harder to say. I'd say they're more equal in then.
--- Quote from: Aurelian on March 25, 2012, 09:25:36 pm ---
--- Quote from: Peanuts11 on March 25, 2012, 09:15:49 pm ---pi and Cam, what you are suggesting is that academic fate should be determined on a scholarship/MHS etc. Then effectively your academic future is sealed at around year 8. Hardly fair at all, not everyone is studious at the age of 12/13. Should this rule them out from high-end professions?
--- End quote ---
No we're not suggesting this at all, and I'll agree with you wholeheartedly; it isn't fair at all, and I wish it weren't this way. But, as Russ said, it *is* this way, unfortunately.
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Exactly, we can't change this, despite how unfair it is :(
--- Quote from: Peanuts11 on March 25, 2012, 09:15:49 pm ---Take the user of 'Ahmad' on this forum. As someone who knows him in real life, he is incredibly intelligent and incredibly hard-working yet got an atar of 99.6ish. Yet I am certain that at least one of the 99.95ers this year was less intelligent and less hard-working but went to a private school.
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Was he intelligent in English too? I'm not taking a shot at Ahmad, because he is amazing at maths, but getting 99.95 seems ('seems', as I obviously did not get 99.95) to be more than just intelligence and hard-working (that's why it is hard to answer your first question I quoted). Studying 'smart' is the third part of it. If you disregard English until yr11 (or even yr12), you're going to be in more trouble that someone who hasn't, and hence no number of 50s in maths/science will push you into that top percentile. Just an idea.
Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience
thushan:
Hey guys...try cool it a little! It's not too bad atm, but just reminding you - we don't want any flaming!
Peanuts11 --> The public vs private school issue is fairly complex, and I really do understand your bitterness. Having said that - it's uni now, and you're in a way on an equal footing. It's a new style of learning for everyone. Now, all I have to say here is GO GET 'EM - that is the knowledge, the principles, oh and the scores!
And come on - this is a thread about getting a guaranteed place in the MD - not a thread about Public vs Private schools and Intelligence vs ATAR!
Peanuts11:
--- Quote from: VegemitePi on March 25, 2012, 09:32:22 pm ---
--- Quote from: Peanuts11 on March 25, 2012, 09:15:49 pm ---Or are you saying that there is a marked difference in intelligence between your private school top-end and public school top-end?
--- End quote ---
If you measure intelligence by ATAR alone, then that's probably true. The MGS top-end (for example) was definitely better than the MHS/Mac.Rob top-end ATAR-wise.
If intelligence is not only ATAR, its harder to say. I'd say they're more equal in then.
--- Quote from: Aurelian on March 25, 2012, 09:25:36 pm ---
--- Quote from: Peanuts11 on March 25, 2012, 09:15:49 pm ---pi and Cam, what you are suggesting is that academic fate should be determined on a scholarship/MHS etc. Then effectively your academic future is sealed at around year 8. Hardly fair at all, not everyone is studious at the age of 12/13. Should this rule them out from high-end professions?
--- End quote ---
No we're not suggesting this at all, and I'll agree with you wholeheartedly; it isn't fair at all, and I wish it weren't this way. But, as Russ said, it *is* this way, unfortunately.
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Exactly, we can't change this, despite how unfair it is :(
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Intelligence has nothing to do with ATAR. The smartest person I've ever met got like 50ish in his ATAR. He just didn't care about school at all. If he's not smarter than everyone, he's definitely smarter than me.
I realise that the being intelligent isn't the only component of being a good doctor. I just think it's one quality that is desirable amongst a plethora of qualities that are desirable and if this quality is being diminished due to private school types taking public school types positions in medicine, this is obviously not a good thing. Obviously my first priority as a patient is surviving, what I am saying is that I think there is a stronger chance of surviving if my doctor is intelligent as this is a quality that leads to a good doctor. In my opinion, the components of a good doctor are personality, intelligence and commitment to his profession in both learning and applying his work. Taking any of these creates serious issues in my opinion.
I think intelligence is more important than most of us think in medicine. Russ to confirm/disprove this?
Thushan, this is my point, if the 99.95ers such as Cam were genuinely as intelligent and hard-working as their score reflects, why do they need that guarantee? It's crap that 50ish students will get places straight into the MD and that in my opinion, you virtually HAVE to have gone to a private school to get this guarantee.
And if intelligence and ATAR were correlated, what you are telling me then Veg is that in one year of MGS, there are more extremely intelligent people passing through (99.95ers) than in like 20 years of public schools (excluding MHS/Macrobs)
Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience
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