Capital Punishment.

[Starlight]

Yeah I don't believe in it, since the 'evidence' in the court of law doesn't always reflect who actually committed the crime.

[Jezza]

I do not support the death penalty in cases that are open to some conjecture. For instance, there's was a woman in Hobart who was found "guilty" of murdering her husband, but no body was ever found, no weapon (because no one could say exactly how the man died except that he disappeared off his yacht - he could be alive in the Bahamas for all we know), not all leads were followed up, and the prosecution failed to establish a reasonable motive.

But in cases where it is proven absolutely that the accused is a killer and a danger to society (not to mention a drain on the public purse by someone who has forfeited their right to live in society) then I'm all for it. For example, Julian Knight, Ivan Milat and Martin Bryant.

[Soul_Khan]

I think that Capital punishment is in most cases useless.. since the people who commit these terrible inconceivable trategies generally have fuck all to lose and don't really care if they die or not, and in some cases even don't mind death and yearn for it. What's a worse punishment being injected whith chemicals and dying painlessly or being trapped in a prison forever haunted by the evil crime you committed and with the law of the prison reigning over you? If I committed such an evil act, I would prefer the death penalty.. its such an easy way out.. so why would you give it to them?

I do not support the death penalty in cases that are open to some conjecture. For instance, there's was a woman in Hobart who was found "guilty" of murdering her husband, but no body was ever found, no weapon (because no one could say exactly how the man died except that he disappeared off his yacht - he could be alive in the Bahamas for all we know), not all leads were followed up, and the prosecution failed to establish a reasonable motive.

But in cases where it is proven absolutely that the accused is a killer and a danger to society (not to mention a drain on the public purse by someone who has forfeited their right to live in society) then I'm all for it. For example, Julian Knight, Ivan Milat and Martin Bryant.

Once again.. why would you give them an easy way out?

[Jezza]

I think that Capital punishment is in most cases useless.. since the people who commit these terrible inconceivable trategies generally have fuck all to lose and don't really care if they die or not, and in some cases even don't mind death and yearn for it. What's a worse punishment being injected whith chemicals and dying painlessly or being trapped in a prison forever haunted by the evil crime you committed and with the law of the prison reigning over you? If I committed such an evil act, I would prefer the death penalty.. its such an easy way out.. so why would you give it to them?

I do not support the death penalty in cases that are open to some conjecture. For instance, there's was a woman in Hobart who was found "guilty" of murdering her husband, but no body was ever found, no weapon (because no one could say exactly how the man died except that he disappeared off his yacht - he could be alive in the Bahamas for all we know), not all leads were followed up, and the prosecution failed to establish a reasonable motive.

But in cases where it is proven absolutely that the accused is a killer and a danger to society (not to mention a drain on the public purse by someone who has forfeited their right to live in society) then I'm all for it. For example, Julian Knight, Ivan Milat and Martin Bryant.

Once again.. why would you give them an easy way out?

Because they're wasting taxpayers money. Taxpayers money should be used for better reasons, than keeping lowlifes scum in prison.

[Surgeon]

I think that Capital punishment is in most cases useless.. since the people who commit these terrible inconceivable trategies generally have fuck all to lose and don't really care if they die or not, and in some cases even don't mind death and yearn for it. What's a worse punishment being injected whith chemicals and dying painlessly or being trapped in a prison forever haunted by the evil crime you committed and with the law of the prison reigning over you? If I committed such an evil act, I would prefer the death penalty.. its such an easy way out.. so why would you give it to them?

I do not support the death penalty in cases that are open to some conjecture. For instance, there's was a woman in Hobart who was found "guilty" of murdering her husband, but no body was ever found, no weapon (because no one could say exactly how the man died except that he disappeared off his yacht - he could be alive in the Bahamas for all we know), not all leads were followed up, and the prosecution failed to establish a reasonable motive.

But in cases where it is proven absolutely that the accused is a killer and a danger to society (not to mention a drain on the public purse by someone who has forfeited their right to live in society) then I'm all for it. For example, Julian Knight, Ivan Milat and Martin Bryant.

Once again.. why would you give them an easy way out?

Because they're wasting taxpayers money. Taxpayers money should be used for better reasons, than keeping lowlifes scum in prison.

I don't know what the exact figures are but people are talking about 1-10 million dollars for an execution?

Let's say there are 10 million tax payers in Australia.

Let's take the middle value.

$5 million divided by 10 million taxpayers is $0.50.

Now, let's calculate price of imprisonment.

100000 a year to keep someone in prison.

100000/10000000 = 1 cent a year per tax payer.

You could easily keep someone imprisoned for 40-45 years (which is a much better deterrent than them being executed and getting the "easy" way out) and spend less money.

Keep in mind that the 5 million could be as low as 1 million (probably not very likely) or as much as 10 million.

[Russ]

If they're planning to take their own life, I don't think any punishment is going to faze them

I highly doubt that 30+ years of incarceration, possibly in solitary confinement for a large proportion of that time with almost nothing to do but reflect over what they have done etcetera, wouldn't phase majority of people. These people who plan to take their lives succeeding the committal of their crime want to do so for a reason... To "leave" the world and escape any accountability for their actions. I think many people would think twice of they knew that there was no "easy" way out but had to endure their length sentence.

Erm...they're planning to take their own life. If you're going to be killing yourself after whatever crime you commit, you're certainly not going to be put off by whatever jail term you would theoretically get, so not offering them an 'easy way out' is pretty irrelevant. So yeah, that's not really going to faze them.

We're getting caught up in the wrong ideas though.. The aim of imprisonment is to rehabilitate as opposed to punishing an individual. Doesn't look like its working though, considering the recidivism rates in recent years...

The question was more about whether the death penalty can be justified for some crimes. Rehabilitation and return to society are key points, but typically they're not particularly important when you consider the crimes that normally attract the death penalty; it's rather difficult to assess the 'rehabilitation' of somebody who is a mass murderer etc. as opposed to misdemeanors/assaults etc.

he question I'd like to ask all of you, what's the point of doing it if its going to cost millions of dollars of tax payers' money?

So much of this money is because of bureaucracy though. If there's no way to make it feasible then there's no way to make it feasible, but as one of your articles points out, the last six years in California have been spent in court trying to decide whether lethal injection is legal. I think the economic impact is probably debatable, especially given a) America and b) so much misinformation

[Water]

So much of this money is because of bureaucracy though. If there's no way to make it feasible then there's no way to make it feasible, but as one of your articles points out, the last six years in California have been spent in court trying to decide whether lethal injection is legal.

You mean legal fees? Because the legal system is very important right?

b) so much misinformation

Seen a documentary that says similar notions to the extreme costs, the internet also talks of the high economic costs, likewise states within America emulate what is said... Do you have any evidence to refute this or is this just biased opinion against America?

It's rather difficult to assess the 'rehabilitation' of somebody who is a mass murderer etc. as opposed to misdemeanors/assaults etc.

An eye for an eye, wonderful... So how do you intend to define what is a "mass murderer" and etc?

[brenden]

It's rather difficult to assess the 'rehabilitation' of somebody who is a mass murderer etc. as opposed to misdemeanors/assaults etc.

An eye for an eye, wonderful... So how do you intend to define what is a "mass murderer" and etc?

A mass murder would be the murder of many people. And I don't think Spice was really saying "Yeah let's get 'em", but more refuting the idea that you could rehabilitate an absolute psychopath as opposed to someone that maybe, mugged someone to support a drug habit who could be referred to the correct treatment.

[Water]

What is exactly many, sir?

Suits, "The law is a very precise endeavor"

[brenden]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/many

[Water]

Good cop out, because if you cannot define mass murder, and what is mass, you have already failed 1/2 of the equation. Can't even draw the silver lining? Clearly status quo works then, or is the better alternative to your vague proposals.

[brenden]

Noun   1.   mass murderer - a person who is responsible for the deaths of many victims in a single incident

Not a cop out.  Ceebs typing something you could have googled if you didn't know what constituted many.

[Water]

Noun   1.   mass murderer - a person who is responsible for the deaths of many victims in a single incident

Not a cop out.  Ceebs typing something you could have googled if you didn't know what constituted many.

I am trying to bring forth to you, is that all these notions can be easily exploited. What can constitute between bringing the line of murderer and mass-murderer in a legal system that is rigged by rhetoric battles and an unfair judicial system governed by money in a question that could decide capital punishment and life imprisonment.

Secondly, eye for an eye? Is that what your advocating?


Anyways, has anyone challenged the economic costs of it all to show that capital punishment outweighs current status quo, or other alternatives than capital punishment itself?

[brenden]

I am trying to bring forth to you, is that all these notions can be easily exploited. What can constitute between bringing the line of murderer and mass-murderer in a legal system that is rigged by rhetoric battles and an unfair judicial system governed by money in a question that could decide capital punishment and life imprisonment.

Secondly, eye for an eye? Is that what your advocating?


Anyways, has anyone challenged the economic costs of it all to show that capital punishment outweighs current status quo, or other alternatives than capital punishment itself?

Thankyou!

Well you'd assume there'd be a defining law if there were to be capital punishment for specific crimes such as mass murder. Maybe it would be set at four or more - who knows? Sometimes you probably wouldn't need a definition. I don't think anyone would disagree that Port Arthur was a mass murder.
And I'm not advocating anything. I haven't actually stated my viewpoint in this thread, I just decided to point out the out of context quote from Spice.
To answer your question - I don't think so. When I started the thread I didn't ask whether or not capital punishment was economically logical, I just asked whether or not people were for or against it.

[paulsterio]

In Singapore, attempting suicide is a crime, for which the maximum penalty is the death penalty, and yes, there has been someone who has been executed by the death penalty for attempting suicide.