Female, Male, Gender, Sex, Society: What is Gender Equality?

[Truck]

You made an inference, he never said that men should sleep around as much as they like. His statement can be interpreted as men shouldn't have extramarital sex as well.

Yeah no point going on with this I suppose, I'll just say I was thinking, as EZ said,  that within the context of how those statements are usually made, the implication was that virginity is less important for men then women. Your interpretation is just as valid, it's just not the way I understood the statement I guess.

@Oglow, I think people should have sex as frequently or infrequently and with whomever they like, and that it really shouldn't be a factor in this conversation.

[Neuron]

I'll rephrase what i have said. BOTH GENDERS SHOULD STAY AWAY FROM SEX UNTIL THEY'RE WILLING TO  COMMIT TO EACH OTHER.
Women are disrespected all the time because men treat them like sex objects. If  there was some way to prevent this then that would be an equally fruitful alternative.

Well you can't just blame men for having this view when society portrays women that way..society has a big influence you know.. assuming of course your view that most men treat women like sex objects is true in the first place.

[HighLatency]

I'll rephrase what i have said. BOTH GENDERS SHOULD STAY AWAY FROM SEX UNTIL THEY'RE WILLING TO  COMMIT TO EACH OTHER.
Women are disrespected all the time because men treat them like sex objects. If  there was some way to prevent this then that would be an equally fruitful alternative.

Then women shouldn't let men treat them as sex objects. They aren't forced to have their virginity lost. Unless it's forced sex. Which is rape. Which is bad. Which I hope doesn't occur as much as girls  being treated as sex objects because they are being a bit promiscuous.

[Eriny]

I think there are aspects of sexuality which constitute gender issues (porn, rape, pressure to be/act/look certain ways, etc.) but I don't think the choice to have sex is problematic. I think we, as a society, are well past the stage of thinking that a woman is degraded because she has a sex life, whether that be a string of casual hook ups or otherwise. Having sex doesn't make them a sex object. Using a woman's body (or an image of it) purely to please men can be objectifying (depends on context and subject to huge debates).

[Tomw2]

I think we, as a society, are well past the stage of thinking that a woman is degraded because she has a sex life, whether that be a string of casual hook ups or otherwise.

I really wish that was the case. I regularly observe subtle behaviours that demonstrate there is still an slight ingrained belief in Western culture that 1) having a sexual drive & appetite is a predominantly male attribute and 2) woman who deviate to far from normative ideals of femininity are "degrading themselves". Fortunately it's fading rapidly and nearly extinguished, but it does rear it's ugly head occasionally.

An excellent case study of such a thing is that meteoric facebook group "Embarrassing Nightclub Photos of the Week". Generally, males throwing up in states of undress and compromising sexual poses with others are never called "sluts", "whores", "tramps" etc. Sure, they're called other names but not those that suggest sexually inappropriate behaviour or something deviating from an accepted norm. A female however, different story. Significantly so.

[Mao]

I am confused. Is this a general discussion on gender equality or is this a discussion on gender equality as portrayed by 50 Shades?

If the latter, I think an important point which has not been mentioned is the dynamics of a S&M relationship. In such a relationship, there is a dominant figure and a subservient figure. It may appear that the dom is more 'superior' than the sub, but the ultimate power lies in the sub (via safewords or simply willingness to participate). Some people's desires are to be dominated, and the mentality of the dom is to satiate the sub's desires (contrary to the popular belief that is to objectify the sub). So in reality, it's an unconventional relationship that is nevertheless still healthy.

In some ways, even 50 Shades does not portray this dynamics in its full subtlety. However, the existence of S&M relationships is not evidence for gender inequality, it comes down to a matter of personal desires.

[Special At Specialist]

An excellent case study of such a thing is that meteoric facebook group "Embarrassing Nightclub Photos of the Week". Generally, males throwing up in states of undress and compromising sexual poses with others are never called "sluts", "whores", "tramps" etc. Sure, they're called other names but not those that suggest sexually inappropriate behaviour or something deviating from an accepted norm. A female however, different story. Significantly so.

I think a lot of that has to do with 2 things:
1. Guys tend to use the internet more than girls (maybe this has changed recently, but it was certainly true a decade ago) and hence tend to have more influence over internet pages.
2. Guys mature at a later age, and in their stages of immaturity, they may at times be extremely competitive and insult anything that is different to them. That includes calling women "sluts" or calling black people "niggers" and so on.

[Tomw2]

I think a lot of that has to do with 2 things:
1. Guys tend to use the internet more than girls (maybe this has changed recently, but it was certainly true a decade ago) and hence tend to have more influence over internet pages.
2. Guys mature at a later age, and in their stages of immaturity, they may at times be extremely competitive and insult anything that is different to them. That includes calling women "sluts" or calling black people "niggers" and so on.

Fair call, but it is not just guys employing that type of discourse, about a third of it is women calling the women in these pictures 'sluts' etc. Also, I think the selection of language is revealing regardless of whether it is inane posturing or whatever.

'Case study' was probably the wrong term, I wasn't presenting it as empirical evidence, rather an example.

Nevertheless, I still feel the "yeah she's a nice person but.... she sleeps around" sexist sentiment is hardly dead in our society and is not just perpetuated by men.

[Eriny]

I think we, as a society, are well past the stage of thinking that a woman is degraded because she has a sex life, whether that be a string of casual hook ups or otherwise.

I really wish that was the case. I regularly observe subtle behaviours that demonstrate there is still an slight ingrained belief in Western culture that 1) having a sexual drive & appetite is a predominantly male attribute and 2) woman who deviate to far from normative ideals of femininity are "degrading themselves". Fortunately it's fading rapidly and nearly extinguished, but it does rear it's ugly head occasionally.

An excellent case study of such a thing is that meteoric facebook group "Embarrassing Nightclub Photos of the Week". Generally, males throwing up in states of undress and compromising sexual poses with others are never called "sluts", "whores", "tramps" etc. Sure, they're called other names but not those that suggest sexually inappropriate behaviour or something deviating from an accepted norm. A female however, different story. Significantly so.

That's totally true, but I think most people at least realise that such thinking is sexist and wrong now.


I haven't read 50 Shades, but I agree with Mao that there isn't anything inherently sexist in s&m. That book sounds pretty sexist though.

[enwiabe]

I think we will have achieved gender equality when we can stop telling young girls to be careful at night because far too many men don't know how to forego their apish urges.

I think men as a gender are failing our female counterparts on a daily basis (in the US, as many as 1 in 4 women have reported being raped once or more in their lifetime. 1 in 4, how absolutely fucking disgusting). That's not to say the situation isn't improving, but I wish far more were done to educate and bring the dregs of society into the 21st century. We need a lot more education programs than currently exist. I swear, somewhere around year 9, every year 9 guy should just be repeatedly told "don't rape people" for 3 hours a day for a week. I think that would work really well.

To be honest though, I think the most work has to be done on the problems that lie in Asia, Africa and the Middle East where the medieval FGM, sexual slavery and other such disgusting practices occur.

[brenden]

I think in those countries rape is used more as a weapon of war more than a tool for assuaging desires.
I like the idea of the education program. There was a campaign going on in Canada (?) or some other country called "Don't be that guy" that's actually lead to a decrease in sexual assaults. I'll find the link and post it in an edit.

[brenden]

I think in those countries rape is used more as a weapon of war more than a tool for assuaging desires.
I like the idea of the education program. There was a campaign going on in Canada (?) or some other country called "Don't be that guy" that's actually lead to a decrease in sexual assaults. I'll find the link and post it in an edit.

Edit: Yep, Canada, I was right  http://www.crimepreventionottawa.ca/en/initiatives/dont-be-that-guy

[enwiabe]

I think in those countries rape is used more as a weapon of war more than a tool for assuaging desires.
I like the idea of the education program. There was a campaign going on in Canada (?) or some other country called "Don't be that guy" that's actually lead to a decrease in sexual assaults. I'll find the link and post it in an edit.

Edit: Yep, Canada, I was right  http://www.crimepreventionottawa.ca/en/initiatives/dont-be-that-guy

That is exactly what I had in mind. I hope our education bureaucrats are taking note.

[ninwa]

I think in those countries rape is used more as a weapon of war more than a tool for assuaging desires.

Very very true, but men are also victims of that mentality

[thushan]

I think in those countries rape is used more as a weapon of war more than a tool for assuaging desires.

Very very true, but men are also victims of that mentality

Halfway through the article...I can't read this. Fucking sickening.

I'm with enwiabe. Except, I'd like a TAC edge to this. Expletives may be more effective here. The slogan should be 'don't be that prick.'