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October 22, 2025, 08:18:50 am

Author Topic: Sexuality-Choice or Innate?  (Read 11597 times)  Share 

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honey-corowa

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Sexuality-Choice or Innate?
« on: August 28, 2012, 08:05:11 pm »
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Vindication required ;)
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Neuron

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Re: Sexuality-Choice or Innate?
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2012, 08:14:10 pm »
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Absolutely innate. Purely genetic.

I give you the case of David Reimer which pretty much put the nail in the coffin to the theory that sexuality can be changed through interfering with one's environment, upbringing, etc:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GhbVFjIaN0


ktrah

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Re: Sexuality-Choice or Innate?
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2012, 08:19:52 pm »
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Innate. Who would choose to be gay? Just makes things more difficult. I mean, people can decide who they get together with, but not which way they swing psychologically/genetically. If a guy who was gay decided they would just sort of ignore their sexual orientation and get with a girl, they wouldn't get as much pleasure out of it as straight guys would. It's not like they want to be gay.

honey-corowa

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Re: Sexuality-Choice or Innate?
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2012, 08:27:56 pm »
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Thanks for that link Neuron, that's awesome. (Not the experiment or anything, but the insight provided!)
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saheh

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Re: Sexuality-Choice or Innate?
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2012, 10:06:08 pm »
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Innate.  But I also reckon it's fluid in nature, with no black and white definitives
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Russ

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Re: Sexuality-Choice or Innate?
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2012, 10:09:59 pm »
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Absolutely innate. Purely genetic.

I give you the case of David Reimer which pretty much put the nail in the coffin to the theory that sexuality can be changed through interfering with one's environment, upbringing, etc:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GhbVFjIaN0



Erm...well...no

http://hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/1961to1999/1993-homosexual-orientation-in-twins.html

Sexuality is determined both by genes and environment

edit for clarity; there is absolutely a strong genetic component, but saying that there is no way to alter this via the environment etc. is not true. Anecdotes, as interesting as they may be, aren't great evidence.

nacho

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Re: Sexuality-Choice or Innate?
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2012, 10:10:57 pm »
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Just ask yourself this question.
(IF you are straight/deem yourself) could you force yourself to love the same sex?

No right?
Unless the man in question is the woman in question is Priyanka Chopra. But there are always exceptions
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Re: Sexuality-Choice or Innate?
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2012, 10:15:27 pm »
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**disclamer**

From the last few posts, i may be hated on for posting this, please know in advance that i mean no offence and that i know both gay and straight people, and to be honest feel i discriminate less then the average openly Homophilic (Is that correct haha ) person.

Also i came to rant about this initially from an annoying girls facebook post and stumbled upon this first haha, so i dont mean to come across too strong anyway end disclaimer  :)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In my opinion, its debatable, with what i feel to be inconclusive evidence. For this reason i do not believe that it is a simple 'i was born this way' sort of deal, i think that's an oversimplification and to be honest not the way i chose to view human beings.

im a fan of the whole: phenotype = genotype + environment, not simply the genotype part. While i have no doubt that gay ( or otherwise by the way) people feel the way they do, i think there experiances as children and though general life play a huge role in there later sexual orientation  i.e.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GhbVFjIaN0


i think we can (hopefully) agree that the idea of a gay gene by itself is ludicrous, just like the idea of a christian gene, muslum gene  a terriost gene or a 'i like KFC' gene is. changes in biochemistry/ brain development (that may be caused by genes) however id say can predispose people to behaving in certain ways, and can allow people to be be drawn towards deviant sexual behavior.

I think there was a case awhile back, i wish i remembered the name for you guys, about this 17 year old who had an imaballance that caused him to have a redicuously large libido. he excused himself about 5-10 times every day from class to go to the 'toilet  ;) ' and ended up raping one of his teachers.

The judge said that he was not willing to draw a line for where human will ends and innate biochemical disposition begins, and the teenager was sentenced as a sex offender (its a sad story)

anyway im like the judge, and i think this viewpoint is the most legitimate in terms of how far pure thought that can get you.  any further and your beginning a philosophical discussion, and your viewpoint lacks the backing it requires to give a one-up on anyone else's opinion

 my longwinded conclusion (hopefully it made sence, im very tired) is that its still a very gray area. people from both sides just love to jump ahead and push there own veiws onto others.

Innate. Who would choose to be gay? Just makes things more difficult. I mean, people can decide who they get together with, but not which way they swing psychologically/genetically. If a guy who was gay decided they would just sort of ignore their sexual orientation and get with a girl, they wouldn't get as much pleasure out of it as straight guys would. It's not like they want to be gay.

a retorical question, i hear it alot. i defiantly understand the point its trying to bring but as far it is in itself it doesn't actually provide an argument, sorta like 'why couldn't there have been alian abductions of my cows?' i dono, there might have been, but so few people chose to elaborate on this that it really is just a pointless question in my eyes.

 (i dont mean to attack you personal, more  people who's research has only consisted of memorizing this single buzz phrase) 


an unsubstantiated generalization

yeah alot at a consous level at least probably wouldent, i feel sorry for them in that way. Though there are definatly those who just do it for attention as well, and there the ones i probobly feel most annoyed at  because its sorta insensitive of those that do have to deal with it
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just ask yourself this question.
(IF you are straight/deem yourself) could you force yourself to love the same sex?

No right?

Unless the man in question is woman in question is Priyanka Chopra. But there are always exceptions

honestly, im fairly straight but i think if it came down to it (for some unknown reason  ??? then yeah, maybe,

hahahahah  :P
« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 06:20:11 am by TrueTears »
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FlorianK

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Re: Sexuality-Choice or Innate?
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2012, 10:19:42 pm »
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Absolutely innate. Purely genetic.

I give you the case of David Reimer which pretty much put the nail in the coffin to the theory that sexuality can be changed through interfering with one's environment, upbringing, etc:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GhbVFjIaN0

Thx, Haven't watched it yet, but I would say it's an amazing video for I&B

saheh

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Re: Sexuality-Choice or Innate?
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2012, 10:21:46 pm »
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Well...my argument is, if sexuality is a choice/influenced....(not directed at anyone)...when did you decide to be heterosexual?
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Re: Sexuality-Choice or Innate?
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2012, 10:22:18 pm »
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Unless the man in question is the woman in question is Priyanka Chopra.

I'd turn gay for Priyanka Chopra any day.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 06:16:01 am by TrueTears »
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Neuron

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Re: Sexuality-Choice or Innate?
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2012, 10:24:50 pm »
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Absolutely innate. Purely genetic.

I give you the case of David Reimer which pretty much put the nail in the coffin to the theory that sexuality can be changed through interfering with one's environment, upbringing, etc:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GhbVFjIaN0



Erm...well...no

http://hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/1961to1999/1993-homosexual-orientation-in-twins.html

Sexuality is determined both by genes and environment

edit for clarity; there is absolutely a strong genetic component, but saying that there is no way to alter this via the environment etc. is not true. Anecdotes, as interesting as they may be, aren't great evidence.

Sorry if my comment sounded a little too conclusive but I do believe environmental factors have an impact, but no where near as much as genetics do.

Do you believe that you can change one's sexuality just by modifying their upbringing? The case at hand demonstrated that you can't. I don't know of any other cases which have proved you can either.

edit: my apologies.. but I thought we were talking about sex and not sexuality.. in that case. I would agree with you. But I thought you were talking about sex.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2012, 10:29:10 pm by Neuron »

Callum

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Re: Sexuality-Choice or Innate?
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2012, 10:26:04 pm »
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Innate for sure. You may take years to reailse but you definitely don't choose it.

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Re: Sexuality-Choice or Innate?
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2012, 10:30:10 pm »
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What if you suddenly got thrown into a island full of sexy guys who were all gay? and you had no way of getting out.
i mean, possibly, there is a chance that over a few years, the environment would influence some sort of change in sexual orientation and desires....

point being.
i dont think its just genetic.
i think its rule of thumb that most phenomena like this, e.g. sexuality, fashion sense, choice of computer operating system.. etc etc, may have (ok. excluding computer OS), are environmentally influenced too.

consider this premise.

I hate the whole idea of guys wearing flannel style shirts, or any shirts, with all the buttons done up, right up to the collar. WITH NO TIE. but after witnessing this for over 2 years, i think i might just do it myself because i feel the need to conform .

my choice of having a shirt fully buttoned up with no tie isnt genetic right ? (or is it? :p) its environmental and socially influenced imo. possibly, its in my dna somewhere to wear simple and non-indie style clothes, which dont make me look jocular but yeah, i dunno about that!

perhaps sexuality is similar in that way.
i cant see myself turning gay. no way. but there would be non-genetic influences.

also, look at the people who are in a heterosexual relationship till theyre like 40. then they divorce,and say the woman becomes a lesbian. Not bisexual - because in this case the woman doesnt sexually involve herself with a male anymore.
thats nothing new right? im  sure we've all heard of such a case?
there'd be some sort of influence which triggered preference of sexuality, because like.... if youre married to a man for20 years and then suddenly have a thing for a woman, there ought to be some non genetic influence!!
unless you got it wrong 20 years ago,
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Re: Sexuality-Choice or Innate?
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2012, 10:32:51 pm »
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Well...my argument is, if sexuality is a choice/influenced....(not directed at anyone)...when did you decide to be heterosexual?


well my personal opinion (that is not weighted in anyway )   is that we all slowly and subtly made this choice, from before pubity and then non so subtley re-discover the choices about sex we quietly made in the back of our heads when the whole teenage thing hits. just a theory i dreamed up then. Thoughts?
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