Just did the 2012 Insight trial..

[Felicity Wishes]

 
I found it really difficult. Got enough MC wrong and the short answer made me unhappy.
Are these harder or easier than a VCAA exam?
...I'm hoping they are harder otherwise I'm screwed for this exam.   

Question 17
In classical conditioning, the stimulus occurs _________ the response and in operant
conditioning the stimulus comes __________ the response.
A. after, before
B. before, after
C. sometimes after and sometimes before, after
D. before, sometimes after and sometimes before

I said B and they said D. They explained it but I really don't understand.  Care to explain anyone?
Thanks.

[lovatic]

I thought it was B too 

[Limista]

Well, the general consensus is that the stimulus comes before the response in classical conditioning and after the response in operant conditioning. In fact, this is one of the differences between the two types of learning. However, even though B is correct, D is MORE correct.

First, it's just like me arguing that MOST of the behaviours acquired through classical conditioning are involuntary/reflexive/learner passive and MOST of the behaviours acquired through operant conditioning are voluntary/learner active. An example? ~ well, when a phone rings (stimulus), you pick it up (response) to be positively reinforced with a "Hello" from the other end (stimulus). In this case I'm sure you noticed that the stimulus came before the response  Similarly, this telephone example is also demonstrative of a behaviour that has been acquired reflexively/involuntarily or when the learner is passive - you don't really have to make an effort to learn to pick up the phone when it rings, as the ring is the UCS and picking up the phone is the NS which then becomes the CS. This shows that behaviours acquired through operant conditioning are not ALWAYS voluntary and can also be involuntary.

My point here is, keep the telephone example in your brain, as it helps you to remember the contradicting points for the differences between classical and operant conditioning.

[Genericname2365]

Well, the general consensus is that the stimulus comes before the response in classical conditioning and after the response in operant conditioning. In fact, this is one of the differences between the two types of learning. However, even though B is correct, D is MORE correct.

I don't understand. The three phase model seemed to imply the stimulus always precedes the response - unless you mean a stimulus such as a positive reinforcer etc.?

[Felicity Wishes]

Well, the general consensus is that the stimulus comes before the response in classical conditioning and after the response in operant conditioning. In fact, this is one of the differences between the two types of learning. However, even though B is correct, D is MORE correct.

First, it's just like me arguing that MOST of the behaviours acquired through classical conditioning are involuntary/reflexive/learner passive and MOST of the behaviours acquired through operant conditioning are voluntary/learner active. An example? ~ well, when a phone rings (stimulus), you pick it up (response) to be positively reinforced with a "Hello" from the other end (stimulus). In this case I'm sure you noticed that the stimulus came before the response  Similarly, this telephone example is also demonstrative of a behaviour that has been acquired reflexively/involuntarily or when the learner is passive - you don't really have to make an effort to learn to pick up the phone when it rings, as the ring is the UCS and picking up the phone is the NS which then becomes the CS. This shows that behaviours acquired through operant conditioning are not ALWAYS voluntary and can also be involuntary.

My point here is, keep the telephone example in your brain, as it helps you to remember the contradicting points for the differences between classical and operant conditioning.

....
In short, are you referring to the consequence (receiving a hello) as a stimulus as well?

[Limista]

Well, the general consensus is that the stimulus comes before the response in classical conditioning and after the response in operant conditioning. In fact, this is one of the differences between the two types of learning. However, even though B is correct, D is MORE correct.

I don't understand. The three phase model seemed to imply the stimulus always precedes the response - unless you mean a stimulus such as a positive reinforcer etc.?

Yup ~ remember that the term 'stimulus' is interchangeable with the term 'consequence' = I know it's a bit confusing, and this was my confusion when I initially had to learn it like this, but you are correct. I do mean the stimulus such as a positive reinforcer.

Well, the general consensus is that the stimulus comes before the response in classical conditioning and after the response in operant conditioning. In fact, this is one of the differences between the two types of learning. However, even though B is correct, D is MORE correct.

First, it's just like me arguing that MOST of the behaviours acquired through classical conditioning are involuntary/reflexive/learner passive and MOST of the behaviours acquired through operant conditioning are voluntary/learner active. An example? ~ well, when a phone rings (stimulus), you pick it up (response) to be positively reinforced with a "Hello" from the other end (stimulus). In this case I'm sure you noticed that the stimulus came before the response  Similarly, this telephone example is also demonstrative of a behaviour that has been acquired reflexively/involuntarily or when the learner is passive - you don't really have to make an effort to learn to pick up the phone when it rings, as the ring is the UCS and picking up the phone is the NS which then becomes the CS. This shows that behaviours acquired through operant conditioning are not ALWAYS voluntary and can also be involuntary.

My point here is, keep the telephone example in your brain, as it helps you to remember the contradicting points for the differences between classical and operant conditioning.

....
In short, are you referring to the consequence (receiving a hello) as a stimulus as well?

That's right ~ same as what I posted to Genericname above. Also Felicity, I forgot to mention that sometimes reinforcement can also come before the response anyway, typically if operant conditioning has been carried out incorrectly. I can't think of a good example of this off the top of my head though sorry.

[Felicity Wishes]

If you guys are interested. I spoke to my teacher and she said that B was the best answer..

[Limista]

If you guys are interested. I spoke to my teacher and she said that B was the best answer..

Hmm - okay. Does that mean what I said was wrong? If it was, I'm sorry about that. 

[Felicity Wishes]

If you guys are interested. I spoke to my teacher and she said that B was the best answer..

Hmm - okay. Does that mean what I said was wrong? If it was, I'm sorry about that. 

No. What you said made a lot of sense but the answer she said more more relevant. It's all good though. 

[chrissygar]

I can see how D is correct as in negative reinforcement the stimulus comes before the response eg. A beeping seatbelt warning sound is the stimulus which comes before the response (putting your seatbelt on)

[katykins]

how strange! i have seen that answer before in my practice through. I believe that the stimulus can be presented before in a operant response, as it still can act as a reinforcer. like for example if a teenager was given 50 bucks for a shopping trip, and the mum says you can have this but only if you wash the dishes after you come home. so its still acting as a reinforcer. i think B is the best answer to! because its the way we have learnt it, but if that question comes up on the exam i know what i would be picking!

on a side note, if that occured i may be in a similar situation to the mid year. the question on the rate of forgeting being slow or fast or the same. i said the same, as vcca stipulated in a past exam. however it was marked wrong? i dont get it! cost me a mark damnit!

But yeah felicity, i agree with your teacher!

[Limista]

how strange! i have seen that answer before in my practice through. I believe that the stimulus can be presented before in a operant response, as it still can act as a reinforcer. like for example if a teenager was given 50 bucks for a shopping trip, and the mum says you can have this but only if you wash the dishes after you come home. so its still acting as a reinforcer. i think B is the best answer to! because its the way we have learnt it, but if that question comes up on the exam i know what i would be picking!

on a side note, if that occured i may be in a similar situation to the mid year. the question on the rate of forgeting being slow or fast or the same. i said the same, as vcca stipulated in a past exam. however it was marked wrong? i dont get it! cost me a mark damnit!

But yeah felicity, i agree with your teacher!

Lol - what would you pick? You didn't really make it clear 

[katykins]

hahah true, i would pick the stimulus being applyed before and after, because it is possible haha but i dont want a repeat of mid year, when i picked the answer to a question identical to a previous question corrrect in an old vcca exam or trial exam. And it turned out it was wrong! haha