THe Disparity between Private and Public High schools.

[thushan]

One simple way would be that CSP University places should only be available to non-selective Government secondary school VCE students.

Discuss

That's a LITTLE extreme. Especially for medical school. Many private school students are not THAT affluent, and many of the selective gvt school students are not THAT affluent. Especially to pay $20,000 per year for fees, or if med school up to $55,000.

Plus, I think you're hitting the wrong place - CSP or not, we're talking about these people being able to post up a competitive score to get INTO uni, rather than whether they pay for it or pay only a fraction.

[Planck's constant]

That's a LITTLE extreme.

corse it is, my friend.
But we have a big problem to solve

[Bad Student]

Problem is that the rappers will be seen to be uncool then because it will sound very contrived.

NO WAY!!! Are you saying that this isn't cool?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvwP2sd01ec&t=1m40s

[thushan]

corse it is, my friend.
But we have a big problem to solve

But that wouldn't be a good way to go about it. Especially given you're hitting the wrong place as I said before.

[Planck's constant]

But that wouldn't be a good way to go about it. Especially given you're hitting the wrong place as I said before.

Don't think so.
I pay for private school education, I get the ATAR I need, I get into my prestigeous Uni course, I get my life-long advantage. All well and good. But 100% of my Uni costs goes to my HECS debt.

If you get into Uni via a non-selective Government school, you get a CSP

[thushan]

What's the purpose of this though?

[Scooby]

One simple way would be that CSP University places should only be available to non-selective Government secondary school VCE students.

Discuss

wut. What makes you think everyone who goes to a select-entry school is well off?

[Planck's constant]

I pay for private school education, I get the ATAR I need, I get into my prestigeous Uni course, I get my life-long advantage. All well and good. But 100% of my Uni costs goes to my HECS debt.

Lets face it. thush. Would you think of me as a better person if I had instead said,

'I want to pay for my private education only for as long as necessary to gain my advantage. But as soon as I eliminate my opposition and get into Uni, I expect the government to immediately start supporting me'

That's not too nice

[Planck's constant]

What's the purpose of this though?

What other chance does the system have of becoming fairer, if local government schools and communities were not gutted by their best students/families deserting them for private schools and selective schools ?

[thushan]

Lets face it. thush. Would you think of me as a better person if I had instead said,

'I want to pay for my private education only for as long as necessary to gain my advantage. But as soon as I eliminate my opposition and get into Uni, I expect the government to immediately start supporting me'

That's not too nice

Hmm. Honestly, I don't have a response to that - I can't intuitively agree with you - perhaps because it's a personal thing because you're saying that I should really be paying $265,000 for my medical education when I really haven't done anything wrong except accept a lucrative scholarship from an amazing private school. Are you saying I should be punished for this?

[turk36]

Maybe there should be several levels of university fees, that are means and assets tested, rather than just solely based on the type of school you have attended?

Because if, for example, I go to Balwyn High by way of my parents owning a house in the feeder zone, and I get CSP placement regardless of financial circumstances - but suppose I'm a student at an exclusive private school, on a scholarship from a low income area, I have to pay full fees. Makes no sense.

There would also be parents who do not believe in private education and hence send their child to a state school but have the means necessary to send them to an exclusive private school.

Although this wouldn't solve the 'state vs private' problem, it would make it a bit more equitable, especially toward the point argonaut raised.

[thushan]

What other chance does the system have of becoming fairer, if local government schools and communities were not gutted by their best students/families deserting them for private schools and selective schools ?

So it's a disincentive to go to private schools...now that's a little unfair. There's a reason why people would go to a private school. There's a reason why certain families work their asses off - practically all my cousins went to an elite private school (one went to a Catholic school, my sister was the only one who didn't go to a private or Catholic school, and I was only @ Scotch because of the scholarship otherwise I would have been at a public school) and my uncles and aunts weren't affluent by any stretch of the imagination. They just worked their asses off so that my cousins could get a good education. It's a shame that we have to look to the private (or selective) sector for a decent education, but that's reality (if we could change that that would be amazing). Should they be punished for this?

I was at a public school at Years 7 and 8, and I didn't like it very much. I didn't HATE it, but I did not particularly like the culture there (especially in hindsight). I was a nerd at school, but I tried to fit in with the cool kids. Now that's something that's really really hard to do. Ended up a weirdo, a mess. An opportunity presented itself to me to move to one of the best schools in the state - I took it with both hands. Are you saying I should have stayed where I would have almost certainly succumbed to the culture in the school and ended up...god knows where?

[Planck's constant]

Hmm. Honestly, I don't have a response to that - I can't intuitively agree with you - perhaps because it's a personal thing because you're saying that I should really be paying $265,000 for my medical education when I really haven't done anything wrong except accept a lucrative scholarship from an amazing private school. Are you saying I should be punished for this?

I am not specifically talking about you or me, thush.
Personally, I know that my siblings and I have benefitted from this system.
I am talking about this in the theoretical sense.
40% of Australian students go to private schools, as compared to eg 1% in Norway, 4% in Finland and these counties have fine egalitarian education systems. We have a big problem

[thushan]

Hmm. Now the next question is - what are they doing right that we are doing wrong? How does their socio-economic system work? What kind of policy do they implement? Is it viable here? Or are circumstances very different there?

Yup, yup - but I'm just using myself as a personal example to rebut your point.

[enwiabe]

EZ: regarding your burning question, I don't think it's very achievable. That kind of community outreach is extremely difficult.

That's why I see more pragmatic solutions as selective schools being refugee camps for those people who would otherwise languish in these broken schools/communities.

I have no idea how to achieve the required attitude shift I'd like to see.