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October 21, 2025, 02:51:36 pm

Author Topic: Transferring from Biomedicine to Science  (Read 9258 times)  Share 

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Shenz0r

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Re: Transferring from Biomedicine to Science
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2013, 05:03:06 pm »
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I suppose I'll make a longer post to help you out.

Here's a few things I feel you should consider.

Why do I want to be a doctor?

To help people
If you truly care about helping people, become a scientist or even an engineer. As my lecturer said once, an oncologist can help 10 or so people in a day. A team of scientists can help a million people with what they achieve.

It's amazing to be saving people's lives
In theory, I would whole heartedly agree. But medicine is not really like what it is on American television. Most of the doctors I spoke to said they found their job to be mundane. It's extremely stressful as many people don't appreciate your work and it is very difficult to cope with people dying around you or you not being able to help people.

$$$, Chicks and Prestige
Not joking with this one, if these three were on the cards, it'd tempt me to do med personally but in reality, I just don't feel medicine offers these. I remember I was talking to my now ex-girlfriend and she said she actually found it unattractive that I would become a doctor as they seem stressed out and work all the time. Consistently, none of my none of my mates got with girls because they were in biomed. Prestige in medicine is lol-worthy, it's just not really there anymore. $$$ are great in medicine once you specialise, but overall, if you want $$$, go with engineering or dentistry. Money will  be on you straight out of uni and it is very handsome indeed. Median salary for an electrical engineer before overtime with 10 years experience in Australia is: $170,000 AUD. With overtime it's 200k+ and everyone does overtime.

Lifelong learning
Let's get something straight, if you do medicine and want to do surgery for instance:

25: Graduate
28: You can apply to specialise (No-one will get into surgery this soon in reality, some people even do a PhD to become more competitive in their application)
34: Finish your specialty (Less then 30% of people pass final exams first time, in reality, you would finish your specialty training at about 40).

Training for a speciality is crazy hours. Your life is the hospital. My friend's brother (radiologist) said it broke him down many times and he felt like giving up many times as he failed some exams repeatedly.


Contrast that to an Engineer:

23: Graduate
23-??: Work

Engineers are literally the most vibrant people on campus, always at the pub and genuinely enjoy life. In biomed, I look around and legit half the cohort seems depressed.

Regardless, I can't make this decision for you. I would, however, advise the following. Go to a hospital, ask to speak to a few doctors (5+) about whether they regret choosing medicine, whether they enjoy their job and any other questions you have.

Some links I found on on google, which dwell into what practicing Medicine is really like:
Learning to survive being a doctor
What it's like being a doctor
The price of being a doctor
Sharing the stresses of being a doctor
I love being a doctor but I hate practicing medicine
The ugly side of being a doctor
2012 ATAR: 99.20
2013-2015: Bachelor of Biomedicine (Microbiology/Immunology: Infections and Immunity) at The University of Melbourne
2016-2019: Doctor of Medicine (MD4) at The University of Melbourne

lebnon

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Re: Transferring from Biomedicine to Science
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2013, 05:25:29 pm »
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It would be nice if some of the people who do study medicine elaborated why they picked medicine. Some of the people here are extremely intelligent and I am sure there are good reasons for their decisions.

But basically, I can break up the people around me in Biomedicine who want to do med into two categories:

(a)Parents/No idea what med is really about

(b)People who truly are happy to sacrifice their own lives for the people. These people are nothing short of amazing. And they're far more frequent than I would have thought.

Have a read on life as a doctor on pagingdr forum. It is brutal reading for med wannabes. It shocked my system that's for sure.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 05:29:08 pm by lebnon »

pi

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Re: Transferring from Biomedicine to Science
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2013, 05:34:45 pm »
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You only live once, why not spend that time helping others in a personal and unique way as to improve their lives for the better?

I know this encompasses many careers from various degrees, but for me, Medicine is one of those that ticks the boxes of: learning, science, and having a career where every day can be completely different from the previous one.

And yeah, it's going to be a hard path. But the way I see it, is that the people who I will be helping probably have it a lot worse off than me, so who am I to complain? :P

Just my view on it :)
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 05:38:56 pm by pi »

Russ

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Re: Transferring from Biomedicine to Science
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2013, 05:42:10 pm »
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It's a well paid, prestigious job with pretty good job security that is interesting and lets me do things I like/work with people to help. If I decide I don't like it or can't do it later, I'll work something else out.


Hehetymen

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Re: Transferring from Biomedicine to Science
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2013, 09:53:03 pm »
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The idea of studying into your 30s isn't very appealing, esp considering the debt and the hours you need to put in as well as the likelihood of failure.

Russ

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Re: Transferring from Biomedicine to Science
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2013, 10:05:01 pm »
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You get paid a full time wage for that though

lebnon

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Re: Transferring from Biomedicine to Science
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2013, 10:17:48 pm »
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You get paid a full time wage for that though

And in between your 100hour+ working week and your cramming for exams, and if you want to have a family, in between taking care or oh-so-cute Russ Jr, when exactly do you spend it?

Hehetymen

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Re: Transferring from Biomedicine to Science
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2013, 10:20:34 pm »
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^That. Except isn't it too late to transfer courses now? I'm not sure I wanna continue with 2nd year biomed but I also have no clue what else to do.

What's the job stability like for a biomed degree assuming you don't get into med?

lebnon

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Re: Transferring from Biomedicine to Science
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2013, 10:24:01 pm »
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^That. Except isn't it too late to transfer courses now? I'm not sure I wanna continue with 2nd year biomed but I also have no clue what else to do.

What's the job stability like for a biomed degree assuming you don't get into med?

Several posters on PagingDR have said that if you want to have kids, have them during medical school, you will not get a chance later on or you will need to compromise your career. For what it's worth, my GP has a son at CGS and he's 55+.

After Biomed, if not med, dent, physio, eng, optom, audilogy, you have research or education.

pi

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Re: Transferring from Biomedicine to Science
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2013, 10:26:03 pm »
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And in between your 100hour+ working week and your cramming for exams, and if you want to have a family, in between taking care or oh-so-cute Russ Jr, when exactly do you spend it?

Not everyone wants to become a hot-shot surgeon in some super-competitive specialty. Hence not everyone will be working crazy hours like that :P

The fact that I know people my age with one or both parents as doctors (surgeons, GPs, specialists, etc.) shows that it can definitely be done if you want to have a successful family.

Several posters on PagingDR have said that if you want to have kids, have them during medical school, you will not get a chance later on or you will need to compromise your career.

I found through reading threads on PD, is that a lot of the "loud" posters who speak up about their concerns also seem to be very ambitious. So that's understandable.

lebnon

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Re: Transferring from Biomedicine to Science
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2013, 10:27:46 pm »
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Not everyone wants to become a hot-shot surgeon in some super-competitive specialty. Hence not everyone will be working crazy hours like that :P

The fact that I know people my age with one or both parents as doctors (surgeons, GPs, specialists, etc.) shows that it can definitely be done if you want to have a successful family.

I found through reading threads on PD, is that a lot of the "loud" posters who speak up about their concerns also seem to be very ambitious. So that's understandable.

I heartily agree. But you do realise, the specialisations that we're talking about are Emergency Physician, GP or Psychiatry right? Virtually all the other specialisations are as demanding as I've portrayed according to PD.

I've spoken to four GPs, three in person, one online, all of them were along the reply I got from the one I spoke to online:

"When you rule out medicine, surgery, GP, path, psyche, O&G, radiology and crit care (ICU, gas and ED), there's not a lot of other specialties left. Of course there are things like public health, rehab, eyes, skin and the like - but they constitute a minority. Suggest you have a look around the forum and outside sites to get an idea of job pathways available. Path, GP and psyche are currently the most common "easy" training pathways WRT lifestyle choices.

Would I have gone into medicine had I know what I know now? I knew about the pitfalls of the career in theory, but it has made a difference actually living through it. I most likely would not have gone into med with the benefit of hindsight - thought my problem was that other things didn't interest me or offer as much job stability as medicine did at the time I decided to do it. The main stumbling block regarding leaving the profession at my stage now is that I've invested so much into it, I'm not qualified to do much else now and that I'm actually very good at what I do. Again, we've discussed this out on the forum; suggest you have a read if you haven't already."

and

"First, we have to address a common misperception which we have repeatedly tried to correct on the forum: the intern year is NOT the most intense year. Thinking that it's all downhill after you complete internship is totally wrong - it's the opposite. It's intense in that you have a very steep learning curve, but WRT hours and the stress associated with carrying a lot of responsibility, your time as a trainee and lesser so as a consultant are far more demanding. Internship is a walk in the park when you look back on it.

The long and the short answer to your question is that if you want a predictably 40 hour week by the time you are 30, you might as well either a) work part time or b) aim for the "lifestyle friendly" specialties. I don't enjoy a 40 hour week, and I have been a doctor now for almost a decade. Critical care training could offer something like a 45-50 hour week, but that comes with the payoff of shift work, which essentially robs you of quality time (eg night and evening shifts ++). General practice, psychiatry and pathology would be amenable to the hours you want. Surgery and medicine would not.

Another thing worth pointing out is the massive amount of time you will have to spend studying and preparing for post graduate exams. Regardless of specialty, these represent a significant time burden (they make GAMSAT look like a piece of cake), and you're not guaranteed to pass the first go, either. You do this preparation IN ADDITION to your work - so in essence you're working full time whilst trying to study when you get home and on the weekends. You'll go into the hospital during your time off to prepare, too.

Once you are a consultant you can look for work according to the hours you want to work, but obviously it depends on job availability. If they want a full time doctor, you're looking at putting in more than 40 hours, once you factor in clinics running late, on-call, time spent after hours sorting things out and the like. They may not want to employ a part timer - it really depends on the specialty and your luck when you're out there applying.

Nutshell: if you want a predictable 9-5 job, medicine can theoretically provide that, but only if you're interested in a specialty that supports that, and only if you can tolerate the time it takes to become a fully fledged consultant (at which time you have more power/flexibility to call your hours). The time you spend training is not inconsiderable - you'll spend most of - if not all of - your twenties getting to where you want to be. There are much easier ways to become a professional. Medicine isn't particularly flexible or forgiving.

Your concern RE losing out on personal time is legitimate. I don't mean to be wholly discouraging, because this is a great job in a lot of ways, but I'd be lying if I said the personal sacrifice was always worth it.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 10:37:43 pm by lebnon »

pi

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Re: Transferring from Biomedicine to Science
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2013, 10:33:56 pm »
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Of course those are the least demanding, but those three also comprise of a *lot* of medical grads (more than half).

And from what I've heard, some specialty training is worse than others. Of course a lot depends on time and place of work etc.

Russ

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Re: Transferring from Biomedicine to Science
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2013, 10:38:24 pm »
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He said youd be in debt and I pointed out that wasn't the case. 100 hours isn't the standard fyi, despite it happening too often

lebnon

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Re: Transferring from Biomedicine to Science
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2013, 10:41:26 pm »
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He said youd be in debt and I pointed out that wasn't the case. 100 hours isn't the standard fyi, despite it happening too often

When speaking to a person who works with suregons****:

I've had a read of most of the relevant threads that I could find.

Very final question, if I wanted to become a surgeon, from the ages of 25-30, do you think I would be working 65+ hours a week? Basically yes or no.


This was the reply:

Yes, you'd be working very long hours, and could expect to be doing long hours once qualified, too. I don't really know of any good surgeons who don't work their asses off. I'm not a surgeon and I've had my fair share of 110+ hour weeks.


For what it's worth, there are of course pros of medicine. I was riding the tram to uni the other day and there was a boy with one of his eyes completely pale blue. My stomach did churn a little. I was lucky enough to talk to his (non-biological) mother who told me he was adopted from an Asian country as he was an orphan and they were on their way to RMH. TO have the chance to work with that boy and turn his life around, just wow. I'm an athiest. But if there is a God. The chance to work with that boy and help him would be a true gift from God.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 10:47:44 pm by lebnon »

pi

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Re: Transferring from Biomedicine to Science
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2013, 11:01:24 pm »
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I guess what it comes down to is "each to their own" depending on ambitions, interests, priorities, etc.

I wouldn't mind riding such a roller-coaster (not that I'm at all sure about what I want to do if I pass my degree) for the tangible benefit to people I think I could have on people's lives.

But the next person might not, and that's society :)