only using ideas from study guides in exam can yield 50?

[zuko_rules!]

A friend of mine who is doing english this year was just wondering whether this is ok. of course she is going to paraphrase and ensure that there isnt any plagiarism, but is it otherwise ok to use the content in the study guides as the primary basis of her exam response and still get 50? or would she need to use completely original ideas? thanks

[paulsterio]

Ideas alone will not get you a 50, you need good control of language, good flow, cohesion...etc.

But really, in English original ideas are not totally necessary, just don't COPY

[brenden]

I'd tend to slightly disagree. The teachers would have read the study guides. So would plenty have other students. Unless your friend writes like EZ, they couldn't really differentiate themselves from the rest of the high end. Your friend also sounds a bit strange in the head... If I could paraphrase "I want a 50 but I don't want to work that hard or have to think more than usual." If she wants the best chance at a 50 possible, she'd use original ideas.

[zuko_rules!]

haha thanks i will relay the message onto my friend hahaha i dont think copying will even be a possibility, considering you'll be in an exam setting and study guides essentially only provide general notes, while the exam questions are directed towards very specific textual facets. my friend is a very accomplished english student, but was concerned because she wasnt able to come up with more than a few original interpretations. i can finally ease her anxiety now thanks paulsterio.

and brendinkles, i appreciate the advice, but my friend is very studious and hardworking, but she is having difficulty coming up with her own stuff. i understand what your saying and i appreciate the input, but its a bit  uncouth to assume that 'shes doesnt want to work hard'. she was just curious about whether originality in it of itself is a necessary prescription for getting a 50.

[thushan]

I'd tend to slightly disagree. The teachers would have read the study guides. So would plenty have other students. Unless your friend writes like EZ, they couldn't really differentiate themselves from the rest of the high end. Your friend also sounds a bit strange in the head... If I could paraphrase "I want a 50 but I don't want to work that hard or have to think more than usual." If she wants the best chance at a 50 possible, she'd use original ideas.

You know Brenden, you remind me of Mr Keating from Dead Poets Society.

[paulsterio]

and brendinkles, i appreciate the advice, but my friend is very studious and hardworking, but she is having difficulty coming up with her own stuff. i understand what your saying and i appreciate the input, but its a bit  uncouth to assume that 'shes doesnt want to work hard'. she was just curious about whether originality in it of itself is a necessary prescription for getting a 50.

To be honest, at a year 12 level, you're not expected to be a scholar and have wide, great interpretations of the text. Either way, that's more for literature students. In English as long as you know your text well and you know what the author is trying to say and you're absolutely solid with your ideas and arguments, writing in sophisticated, clean prose will get you better marks.

Personal evidence anyway, but I managed to score 9/10 for my text response in the exam just by using ideas I gathered and read about, though I did understand the ideas, not just paraphrase.

[brenden]

Of course writing in sophisticated, clean prose will get you better marks. The cleaner your essay is, the higher it will be marked, especially in the limited time the examiners have. However it's easy to read a standard, very well written essay and think '8/10' if there's no 'wow factor'. (Unless the wow factor -is- your writing)

•  Demonstrates a close and perceptive reading of the text, exploring complexities of its concepts
and construction.

The best way you are going to demonstrate a perceptive reading of a text is by utilising your own ideas.

And Zuko, perhaps I seem uncouth but -

of course she is going to paraphrase

just screams "I mean, of course she's going to cover her tracks and not sound totally unoriginal. She wants to copy, not seem like she's copying.

[EvangelionZeta]

The thing is, reading study guides and copying their ideas doesn't automatically make you unable to get a 50, but it IS usually symptomatic of an inability to grapple with a text's complexities and to really appreciate it on terms that you yourself are familiar with.  I tend to tell my students that success in text response often depends on the student being able to feel the text, to taste its rich and nuanced flavours, and to understand how it speaks to a reader at an ideological level.  If you copy study guides and don't think about the text on your own at some point, you will likely never achieve that.

[Yendall]

Yielding a 50 isn't something that can just be done by reading a few paragraphs on Sparknotes. How many people do you think have read those paragraphs over and over again? Developing your own ideas is what examiners look for. Obviously there are elements that EVERYONE is going to write about, however it's what YOU do with those elements and how YOU interpret them; not a study guide. I will admit I read a far decent amount of study guides in order to develop extended knowledge about the texts, but when it came to writing my essays I sat down and brainstormed everything that was going through my mind about the text, about reality, about literature, quotes, links, symbols. You, and your friend, will find that discovering new thought-streams and new ideas will create grounded and enjoyable pieces of writing.

[FlorianK]

I was really bad in coming up with ideas for my text response and the entire piece I wrote in the exam was basically paraphrased or entirely copied from essays I wrote beforehand, notes I got, especially the uni-notes I got, or ideas from my tutor and I scored 20/20 on this section.
The only actual original stuff was some of the wording, linking words and phrases between the copied stuff, the linking sentence and of course introduction and conclusionl. Even though 90% of the conclusion, was a conclusion I came up with beforehand, but that one was still original.

[Limista]

I was really bad in coming up with ideas for my text response and the entire piece I wrote in the exam was basically paraphrased or entirely copied from essays I wrote beforehand, notes I got, especially the uni-notes I got, or ideas from my tutor and I scored 20/20 on this section.The only actual original stuff was some of the wording, linking words and phrases between the copied stuff, the linking sentence and of course introduction and conclusionl. Even though 90% of the conclusion, was a conclusion I came up with beforehand, but that one was still original.

Aren't text responses graded out of 10?

[thushan]

Aren't text responses graded out of 10?

Two examiners, each mark out of 10. Sum to 20.

[EvangelionZeta]

I was really bad in coming up with ideas for my text response and the entire piece I wrote in the exam was basically paraphrased or entirely copied from essays I wrote beforehand, notes I got, especially the uni-notes I got, or ideas from my tutor and I scored 20/20 on this section.
The only actual original stuff was some of the wording, linking words and phrases between the copied stuff, the linking sentence and of course introduction and conclusionl. Even though 90% of the conclusion, was a conclusion I came up with beforehand, but that one was still original.

Without meaning at all to be disparaging or to detract from your result (because a 20/20 is a solid mark, in any circumstance, for a VCE subject), but from what I've seen, in ESL a lot more weight seems to be placed on expression and the ability of an essay to sound fluent in English (as opposed to on your ideas per se).  Perhaps this does indicate that you can get away with not really knowing your texts very well and still doing excellently, but I do still strongly suggest that for most, you still really steer clear from the "copy study guide" approach as much as possible.

[FlorianK]

Without meaning at all to be disparaging or to detract from your result (because a 20/20 is a solid mark, in any circumstance, for a VCE subject), but from what I've seen, in ESL a lot more weight seems to be placed on expression and the ability of an essay to sound fluent in English (as opposed to on your ideas per se).  Perhaps this does indicate that you can get away with not really knowing your texts very well and still doing excellently, but I do still strongly suggest that for most, you still really steer clear from the "copy study guide" approach as much as possible.

I'm not saying i didn't knew my text very well, it was just that it weren't my own ideas. It were the notes etc, that helped me to understand the text.
For example, on my own I never could've come up with the parallel between the potplant and S&S's emotional life, i still used that example in the exam. I never knew that the first and last story is basically mirrored.
What I meant is just that there is no need to analyse each sentence of the book. You can just read thoroughly and now all the lines. For the stuff between the lines you can just use study guides etc.
And well most of the stuff you need to write is, the stuff that is between the lines.