Is the VCE a fair system?

[bully3000]

If not, why not and what more could be done to make it more fair?

Does the system create injustice for thousands of VCE/international students wanting to pursue tertiary level education? etc....

[McFleurry]

Interesting question. I would say yes.

Just wondering, how does it create injustice?? What specific thing are you referring to here?

[michak]

Do you think there is an injustice? are you comparing it to other educational systems?

[availn]

The whole "English must be in your top 4" things rubs me the wrong way, but I think that the system is pretty fair. I've heard that there are some flaws with ranking by bell curve, but I don't know too much about that.

[abcdqd]

should be an english AND a maths required in your top 4, so the people who are good at english and not maths have to suffer like i do

[availn]

should be an english AND a maths required in your top 4, so the people who are good at english and not maths have to suffer like i do

LOL while that wouldn't affect me, that is kind of a bad, spiteful solution (funny though ). It just makes things worse for some, and better for none.

[michak]

LOL while that wouldn't affect me, that is kind of a bad, spiteful solution (funny though ). It just makes things worse for some, and better for none.

Completely right, that would make the system head in the wrong direction.
I do think it is kinda unfair to make english be in your top 4 but on the other hand it shouldnt change.

[Shenz0r]

English should definitely be a compulsory part of the primary 4. We live in a predominately English-speaking country, and people will need to be able to communicate complex ideas with coherency.

should be an english AND a maths required in your top 4, so the people who are good at english and not maths have to suffer like i do

I don't think Maths should be required. There are some people who I know did not choose a 3/4 Maths subject for Year 12, simply because they didn't really need it.

[pi]

I think it's pretty fair overall, I don't mind the compulsory English, I feel better knowing that more people are learning to read and write to a more advanced level.

I'm unsure of compulsory maths though. Most people will use the following maths in life: basic operations (used everywhere), percentages (shopping, tax, superannuation, etc), ratios (gambling), and that's honestly about it. In terms of English, sure you won't be needing to write text responses to Shakerz in later life (for most of us anyway), but it's all the analytic skills you gain from VCE English in addition to the cementing of reading and writing skills, all of which you'll be using all the time in later life.

[bully3000]

Interesting question. I would say yes.

Just wondering, how does it create injustice?? What specific thing are you referring to here?

By 'injustice' I meant the situation whereby some capable and hardworking students fall through the cracks.

For example, teachers putting down or neglecting hardworking students in a school where achievement levels may be low...
Furthermore, what if you are in a school whereby other students are too lazy to work hard but not lazy enough to distract their peers and refrain them from achieving academic success.
Or some teachers may steal SAC questions from a particular source (which may also be printed in the SACs) and knowing this the more motivated students may try to get hold of the solutions and then cheat for the rest of the year obtaining 100% in all the remaining the SACs.
I have also noticed some students listen to their ipod during the examination without invigilators taking them off. Students may be listening to music and dozing off thereby lower their entire cohorts SAC marks or they may listening to podcasts for reference to examination questions which they could use to unfairly score highly in exams. Either way it's unfair.
Furthermore, some students try to sabotage or conceal supporting material which may help their peers.

The VCE system, like everything in life, is filled with inequity. There is no pride in an unequal world.

There are also students from all sorts of backgrounds. People from lower socioeconomic backgrounds are automatically disadvantaged and people coming from Aboriginal/non-asian backgrounds may be disadvantaged. SEAS does some good, but many go to well off students who are only slightly 'disadvantaged'.

[michak]

By 'injustice' I meant the situation whereby some capable and hardworking students fall through the cracks.

For example, teachers putting down or neglecting hardworking students in a school where achievement levels may be low...
Furthermore, what if you are in a school whereby other students are too lazy to work hard but not lazy enough to distract their peers and refrain them from achieving academic success.
Or some teachers may steal SAC questions from a particular source (which may also be printed in the SACs) and knowing this the more motivated students may try to get hold of the solutions and then cheat for the rest of the year obtaining 100% in all the remaining the SACs.
I have also noticed some students listen to their ipod during the examination without invigilators taking them off. Students may be listening to music and dozing off thereby lower their entire cohorts SAC marks or they may listening to podcasts for reference to examination questions which they could use to unfairly score highly in exams. Either way it's unfair.
Furthermore, some students try to sabotage or conceal supporting material which may help their peers.

The VCE system, like everything in life, is filled with inequity. There is no pride in an unequal world.

There are also students from all sorts of backgrounds. People from lower socioeconomic backgrounds are automatically disadvantaged and people coming from Aboriginal/non-asian backgrounds may be disadvantaged. SEAS does some good, but many go to well off students who are only slightly 'disadvantaged'.

First of all the whole ipod thing is not - those people in charge are doing their job at all.

second of all people from socio-eco backgrounds, aboriginal etc. are given assitance its called SEAS which sometimess does allow them to get into course after vce. Anyway you need to have a real claim for SEAS not just anyone can't get.

Furthermore, some students try to sabotage or conceal supporting material which may help their peers.

 

This is not sabotage. Not everyone is willing to help others. you need to remember that this is still a competition between you and everyone else. You dont have to help others if you don't want if you believe its going to disadvantage yourself.

[pi]

bully3000, I'm confused.

Are you taking issue with the VCE system (or curriculum)? Or are you taking beef with slack teachers, selfish students, unmotivated students, etc.?

Because the two aren't the same.

[Shenz0r]

For example, teachers putting down or neglecting hardworking students in a school where achievement levels may be low...

That seems to be the fault of the teachers though, not from the VCE system.

Or some teachers may steal SAC questions from a particular source (which may also be printed in the SACs) and knowing this the more motivated students may try to get hold of the solutions and then cheat for the rest of the year obtaining 100% in all the remaining the SACs.

Again, that is the fault of teachers, not the system.

I have also noticed some students listen to their ipod during the examination without invigilators taking them off.

That shouldn't be happening in a VCAA supervised exam? It should actually be reported if it was. If it was during a SAC, the supervisors should have confiscated them. But again, you can't blame this injustice on the VCE system. Blame it on the supervisors who weren't doing their job.

Students may be listening to music and dozing off thereby lower their entire cohorts SAC marks or they may listening to podcasts for reference to examination questions which they could use to unfairly score highly in exams. Either way it's unfair.
Furthermore, some students try to sabotage or conceal supporting material which may help their peers.

I listened to podcasts for Biology last year, and the speaker made us aware of past examination questions as well? I don't see how getting references to past exam questions is unfair. I mean, entire past exams are on the VCAA site as well.

As for students who try conceal resources from other kids, that's just a dog act, but it has nothing to do with the VCE system? People at university have hidden textbooks from each other, or they keep borrowing them so that nobody gets their hand on them. It's not really exclusive to VCE alone.

SEAS does some good, but many go to well off students who are only slightly 'disadvantaged'.

This is very true though...

[michak]

bully3000, I'm confused.

Are you taking issue with the VCE system (or curriculum)? Or are you taking beef with slack teachers, selfish students, unmotivated students, etc.?

Because the two aren't the same.

Yeah it sounds like they are having a problem with slack teachers etc. not really the system as a whole.

[bully3000]

I listened to podcasts for Biology last year, and the speaker made us aware of past examination questions as well? I don't see how getting references to past exam questions is unfair. I mean, entire past exams are on the VCAA site as well.

No, I meant students listening to podcasts through their ipod while doing their exams.