Being religious in todays society

[spectroscopy]

I would like to start off by saying please don't turn this into a debate over religions, bag peoples beliefs, or argue against religion all together or try to disprove it, there are other threads for that, and if not, make one.

I just want to have a semi-rant here, and find out what other people who are religious' experiences are.
So I'm a religious enough eastern orthodox christian, and whenever people see me wear a cross, or praying, or using a prayer rope or something, everyone looks at me funny (even though i make no big deal of it and try to be a discrete as possible). People always come up to me and say that "religion is stupid" and "haha there is no god youre an idiot" etc. I don't care if they have their own beliefs, that's fine, but whenever arguments erupt at school or something if you have a religion or if you're religious, everyone ostracizes you and you're treated like a leper. People always preach tolerance to gays and different races (me too) but how come if everyone promotes being politically correct for all those things, religion some how doesn't count? If you get frustrated at extremists or people on a massive conversion mission, i dont really mind, but if someone is minding their own business, is completely tolerant to people, but wears a kippah, its okay to straight up call them stupid? I don't think so. I don't see where our society went wrong, in primary school they said things like "colour doesnt matter" and "boys and girls are equal" but if you choose to believe in a higher power and practice that belief, a right every Australian has, society ostracizes you. I used to not care if people try to tell me my religion is dumb, but when an entire class gangs up on you and people are allowed to openly say "if your gods real how come this happens, he cant be real!" and teachers dont care, you start to get sick of people's shit.

Have any other religious people faced these problems? How do you handle it? Any opinions on how to handle it? 

once again; please do not turn this into a debate about religions, religion over athiesm, or say "lol then stop believing" etc. That can be done in other threads and I would like one chance to openly talk about religion and the problems religious people(specifically young people) face in society these days.

[jeanweasley]

Well, this doesn't particularly happen at my school, but I do know that if you are religious, there seems to be that sort of vibe that you can't fit into modern society because religion is a thing of the old. I mean, it's not like I would be pushing my belief onto others but others seem to think that just because you're religious, it's okay to be questioned or put down because you believe in a God and they don't. I think it's just being used as a scapegoat, you know, because of extremists and events like terrorism, world suffering etc., that it's okay to assume that all religious observers are extremists and are the cause of destruction in modern society.

I'm sorry that you're in such a situation but I can't believe that your teachers won't say anything. You're being practically bullied!

[walkec]

I respect other people's religions, but I also witness the prejudices faced by those who are religious. I go to a catholic school, so the majority of the students are catholic. But there are also people of different faiths. Currently, we have Muslims, Jews, Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, Lutheran, Baptist, Pentecostal Christian, Anglicans, Mormons, as well as ones I don't know of.

There are stereotypes that go with some religions that are present in the student population at my school. One of my really good friends is Mormon, and just the other day I heard one student ask another student what Mormons are. They replied with something even I consider to be stereotypically offensive because my friend tells me about the Mormon faith just so more people understand instead of judge. I'm not going to post what they said here, but I turned out and told them about the actual beliefs of the Mormon people, just to set the story straight.

Me, well I was baptised as a Catholic. I respect the traditional beliefs of the Catholic faith but I feel that I don't passionately believe in them, which is why I consider myself to be a non practicing Catholic. I don't see why I should practice a religion if I don't whole heartedly believe in it. I think that would be offensive to those who are practicing that religion because I'd be pretty much living a lie.

I really admire people who still keep up religion today. It's so good that you have something that means so much to you.

[Eriny]

I kind of get what you mean. Once, I was reading a leather-bound copy of Jane Eyre on the train and randoms would come up to me and ask me if I was reading the bible, and if so what was wrong with me. It was weird/confronting. Even if I was reading the bible, it's not anybody's business!

I think we are in a period of transition from religion being the dominant lens through which people understood their life to science becoming dominant. We're on the science end of the spectrum at the moment. Even though some religious folk are really horrible to scientists and some politicians refuse to 'believe' in climate science, generally science has a monopoly on what we consider to be sensible. It's a good thing, IMO, but also I think you can have religious beliefs and accept science (as long as you aren't a fundamentalist douche). This is probably why though you're finding things difficult, you have beliefs which fall outside the dominant way of thinking.

In general, I prefer to assume that someone has religious beliefs because they thought hard about it and are really looking to extend themselves spiritually. It's not my thing, but I know intelligent people who disagree with me on a whole bunch of issues, so I'm prepared to believe the same might be true for religion. Some people are obviously just brainwashed into it, but it's not everyone. I don't think it would even be the majority. There's more room for respect/tolerance when it comes to how others understand the world and their place in it. It sucks that you aren't getting respect.

At the same time, I guess you have to understand that a lot of people don't have very good experiences with organised religion. Religious education, particularly in the past, can be quite extreme and cruel. I was sent to church every week when I was young and got really scared by it - I thought I was going to hell. That kind of thing is really wrong and it doesn't scratch the surface of some of the horrible, violent and abusive things that leaders of organised religions have been responsible for. Some of the sanctimonious bullshit is really agitating too - the instant someone tries to shove a bible down my throat or harasses me at home or on the street about Jesus, or bans books or life-saving technologies, or otherwise tries to impose on important rights, I begin to have a problem with religion. I recognise that not everyone who believes in God is a jerk, far from it, but some people do have difficulty making the distinction and maybe that's part of the problem you're facing.

[grannysmith]

I guess it has got to do with people stereotyping as well as generalising people because of their religion.

Just because the media portrays a group or persons as bad, it does not mean the religion is bad. In other words, the actions of some individuals do not speak for the majority.

Also, many people practice the religion, while at the same time other people condemn their actions. Both parties are human and they make mistakes, or sometimes, they just misinterpret. But it is the mean-spirited of these people that should not be tolerated.

[Stick]

As someone who is Roman Catholic and attends a very religious Catholic school, I personally think that the Church has a lot to answer for. A lot of the 'teachings' and widespread practices that go around today did not stem from God, Jesus or the Bible (let me remind you that the former two did not write this sacred text either) but rather derive from cultural/historical ideals that the Church decided to implement. If you don't believe me, then why is my religion, which supposedly prides itself on helping those who are less fortunate (although there are plenty of both historical and current circumstances which would suggest otherwise) keep unfathomable amounts of wealth locked up in vaults in the Vatican City? Some would say that my sense of doubt means that I'm 'playing God', but really it seems as if the Church is playing God here. Spirituality is a very individual thing and I'm not sure if it can be institutionalised. Bad experiences that often result for a lot of people is what's ultimately causing this sense of backlash.

Just for the record, I too would identify as a non-practicing Catholic. Sure, the basic principles and teachings are all there, but there's too much in the finer print which just causes me significant concern.

[Lolly]

Spirituality is a very individual thing and I'm not sure if it can be institutionalised. Bad experiences that often result for a lot of people is what's ultimately causing this sense of backlash. 

Definitely.
I can only speak from my own view, but studying Texts and Traditions has illuminated my views on institutionalised religion as you described it. It's this Pharisaic idea of morality; legalism and bureaucracy and hierarchy which is becoming increasingly irrelevant to today's society. I have noticed that our culture in general has diminishing respect for institutions - and fair enough. Jesus actually spent a lot of time criticising the Temple system as it existed in his time. Yet I'd like to point out that there's a key difference between an institution and a community.

This sense of detachedness in "institutions" as such, directly contrasts my own experience of church and faith, which has been one of warmth and family and community. My church is like a second home. My faith is the cornerstone of my life, although, it hasn't come without a lot of deep searching within myself and toying with some really hard questions. So, yes, I would concur with the notion that spirituality is a deeply personal aspect of life, and it isn't manifested in the strata of church or in the hoarding of wealth or the scramble to power.

[Professor Polonsky]

Florian makes a very good point. While simply criticising someone for holding religious beliefs is wrong, the content of those beliefs is open to criticism. I'm not going to criticise you for reading the Bible (I very much have an interest in it, despite not believing in a deity of any sort). What I am going to criticise you for, however, are your ethical beliefs which stem from your religion. Since religious ideals influence many people's beliefs, they should be in any healthy society open for criticism and even attacks.

I think we are in a period of transition from religion being the dominant lens through which people understood their life to science becoming dominant. We're on the science end of the spectrum at the moment. Even though some religious folk are really horrible to scientists and some politicians refuse to 'believe' in climate science, generally science has a monopoly on what we consider to be sensible. It's a good thing, IMO, but also I think you can have religious beliefs and accept science (as long as you aren't a fundamentalist douche). This is probably why though you're finding things difficult, you have beliefs which fall outside the dominant way of thinking.

Oh I wish.

The argument [behind climate change] is absolute crap. However, the politics of this are tough for us. Eighty per cent of people believe climate change is a real and present danger.

[BigAl]

I dont know if Christianity is open to criticism, but i do know that Islam is strictly against criticism. I've recently decided not to believe any deity although I was strictly brought up by muslim parents...then I started to criticise Islam and discuss it with my muslim friends...I havent received any good feedback..all my friends did was patching up the religion with what's told them. What makes me really annoying is the fact that religion always comes the first place and then nationality second. I see many people going to mosques and stuff..but none of them can even speak their parent's language. So in essence, I would say it is other way around for Islam, where you can't ask people why they are reading quran or why they are praying, those people will fight back...religious beliefs will exist fairly bit more in societies...and they must be open to criticism and attacks...but that's a big no for Islam Being religious in the islamic community makes your life easy, but if you have recently converted yourself from islam to something else, everybody will fight you...

[brenden]

That's a really respectable/brave move, Al. Well done.

[grannysmith]

I dont know if Christianity is open to criticism, but i do know that Islam is strictly against criticism. I've recently decided not to believe any deity although I was strictly brought up by muslim parents...then I started to criticise Islam and discuss it with my muslim friends...I havent received any good feedback..all my friends did was patching up the religion with what's told them. What makes me really annoying is the fact that religion always comes the first place and then nationality second. I see many people going to mosques and stuff..but none of them can even speak their parent's language. So in essence, I would say it is other way around for Islam, where you can't ask people why they are reading quran or why they are praying, those people will fight back...religious beliefs will exist fairly bit more in societies...and they must be open to criticism and attacks...but that's a big no for Islam Being religious in the islamic community makes your life easy, but if you have recently converted yourself from islam to something else, everybody will fight you...

Islam as in the religion or Islam as in the people?
Could you explain how they would fight back?

[Dayman]

I dont know if Christianity is open to criticism, but i do know that Islam is strictly against criticism. I've recently decided not to believe any deity although I was strictly brought up by muslim parents...then I started to criticise Islam and discuss it with my muslim friends...I havent received any good feedback..all my friends did was patching up the religion with what's told them. What makes me really annoying is the fact that religion always comes the first place and then nationality second. I see many people going to mosques and stuff..but none of them can even speak their parent's language. So in essence, I would say it is other way around for Islam, where you can't ask people why they are reading quran or why they are praying, those people will fight back...religious beliefs will exist fairly bit more in societies...and they must be open to criticism and attacks...but that's a big no for Islam Being religious in the islamic community makes your life easy, but if you have recently converted yourself from islam to something else, everybody will fight you...

I must admit I am religious muslim and I 100% agree with you. I mean asking questions has become a cultural taboo a sin even (not really exaggerating). I seriously do not know how people got to this. I mean questions were always welcome back in the prophets days.

But one of the greatest solutions to your or everyone's journey to enlightenment(any religion) is the Internet I mean you can get all your question and research done there without the judgement of your friends and families. I believe God wants you to reason and find the true path. Anyways that's all Fromm bye.


Ps don't look any bias sources that's built to attack other religion directly I usually go on forums of other religions .

[alondouek]

As a Jew, I've definitely had some conflicting experiences, but they've definitely been more internal than external. I haven't really been affected by any anti-Semitism (the only time this occurred, I was able to initiate a discussion with the person and hopefully changed their preconceived notions about Jewish people), but there's definitely a subtle mindset within the community of persecution, especially when a member of the community does something illegal or downright disgusting. I find this disturbing - both that the actions of a few members of the community can have a effect on the mentality of the whole, and that in today's age, in a comparatively liberal country like Australia, we're still maintaining that paranoid mindset that was even more prevalent in European and to an extent Middle-Eastern communities over the past few centuries.

Personally, I consider myself an Agnostic Theist - I 'believe' in God (but I believe that to state that God 'exists' is contrary to the Jewish interpretation of what God 'is', but that's another discussion), but I'm certain that no empirical or falsifiable evidence either for or against God's 'existence', hence I feel that any serious discussion or debate as to the 'existence' of God is moot. Regardless of this, I'm still a practicing Modern-Orthodox Jew.

Regarding OP's point; I do believe that religion often has a negative stigma attached to it today. It's seen as being contrary to the progressiveness, as well as the fundamental evidence-based nature, of science. However, as someone who is both religious and studying the sciences, I see no conflict whatsoever - in Judaism, or at least in the interpretation I was brought up with, learning is encouraged regardless of its nature and to fail to question everything, both in the secular and Jewish studies, is to have missed the point of learning. I guess in that sense I don't find it difficult to be religious in today's world - rather I feel more comfortable today knowing that I can fulfil both my religious and my secular duties without them being in conflict with one another.

I also believe that the most damaging people to any religion are the zealous, ultra-religious factions or individuals. In Judaism, many of the Ultra-Orthodox communities isolate themselves from the outside world, they (in my opinion) mistreat their women and they are often radical. This is an example of the radical ultra-religious groups I'm talking about.. These people do, and will do, so much more damage to religion that any atheist could - they denigrate their religion in the eyes of God, other less radical members of their religion, and the general population.

P.S. Florian and Alex, I'm amazed and extremely happy you called it a kippah instead of some crazy Yiddish word .

Sorry for the rant, OP - I'm pretty sure I went off topic a few times - but I have so much to say about this that I couldn't even begin to put it all in one post.

[BigAl]

Islam as in the religion or Islam as in the people?
Could you explain how they would fight back?

http://mobile.news.com.au/technology/composer-fazil-say-faces-jail-in-turkey-over-islam-tweets/story-e6frfro0-1226621087348 this is one of the examples..if you were in Saudi Arabia or the ones similar to it, your head wouldn't be in your body anymore

[Lolly]

(but I believe that to state that God 'exists' is contrary to the Jewish interpretation of what God 'is', but that's another discussion)

I'd like to know more about this?