How do lawyers cope with defending rapists and murders?

[QuantumJG]

I was watching an episode of Boston legal (Truly, Madly, Deeply), where Denny Crane is summoned as legal defence for somebody who raped and murdered a 13 year old. Crane has a moral objection to representing this person, yet he's forced to, since everybody is entitled to a fair trial. This raises a couple of questions:

1) Can a lawyer actually turn down this job?

2) How does the lawyer cope with such a case? Is counselling available?

3) Have any lawyers quit the legal profession due to these cases.

I'm asking this here because (if I were in this position) I would turn down that case, and I know there's students doing law degrees who frequent this site.

[alondouek]

I was watching an episode of Boston legal (Truly, Madly, Deeply), where Denny Crane is summoned as legal defence for somebody who raped and murdered a 13 year old. Crane has a moral objection to representing this person, yet he's forced to, since everybody is entitled to a fair trial. This raises a couple of questions:

1) Can a lawyer actually turn down this job?

2) How does the lawyer cope with such a case? Is counselling available?

3) Have any lawyers quit the legal profession due to these cases.

I'm asking this here because (if I were in this position) I would turn down that case, and I know there's students doing law degrees who frequent this site.

Not a lawyer (obviously) or a law student, but

1. Unless the attorney is court-ordered to represent the defendant, they can refuse to represent the defendant.

P.S. Boston Legal is awesome, I wish it were still on tv haha

[meganrobyn]

Solicitors cannot refuse to represent clients that approach them (unless there's a proper conflict of interest or legitimate excuse that has nothing to do with not wanting the case).

Barristers don't get hired directly by clients - they get brought in by the solicitor. They are therefore allowed to refuse.

We don't have the same system of 'court-appointed' counsel as they do in the US - that's on US TV shows, and it's a bit different here.

Most of the lawyers I know say they're "just doing their job". That's not as much my thing.

[ninwa]

Every person is entitled to have fair and equal access to the justice system, and that includes competent legal representation. This is why I volunteer to give legal seminars to inmates at one of Melbourne's maximum security prisons, because even "scumbags" (as they call themselves) deserve a fair shot at justice.

I don't know how I would react until I am actually presented with this dilemma in reality, but I'd like to think that I would act for them, because someone has to and it is my job.

[lala1911]

Money eases the guilt.

[ninwa]

Yeah? How much money do you reckon you'd be able to get out of the dude who assaulted his girlfriend and lives on the dole? Criminal lawyers make very little money.

[lala1911]

What about criminals with a lot of money.. Carl Williams? Jason Moran? Tony Mokbel? They pay big money.

[ninwa]

Go look up how many criminal cases the courts deal with.

Then sit down and think rationally about this: are there that many rich criminals out there? Maybe have a look at the statistics for the correlation between socio-economic status and likelihood of criminal activity.

Try not to resort to the anti-lawyer circlejerk and actually do some research. Do you really think there are that many Tony Mokbels out there?

[lala1911]

Go look up how many criminal cases the courts deal with.

Then sit down and think rationally about this: are there that many rich criminals out there? Maybe have a look at the statistics for the correlation between socio-economic status and likelihood of criminal activity.

Try not to resort to the anti-lawyer circlejerk and actually do some research. Do you really think there are that many Tony Mokbels out there?

No, but really, by just watching the news there's so many famous people walking out of a courtroom guarded by their scumbag looking lawyer. Every news show I've seen this. Ik there's a lot of criminal cases dealt with per year, but it's an insult to society to defend someone from a serious crime that they committed, like the one someone mentioned above. It actually amazes me. What you said is right though, everyone deserves a fair serve of justice, but when they go in there and blab out shit like "he has mental problems", "he was suffering -----" it's just wrong.

The worst was the Dnepropetrovsk maniacs, they killed 22 people and footage was leaked ONLINE of them stabbing and hammering a guy before their trial, and some guy still defended them.

[QuantumJG]

Solicitors cannot refuse to represent clients that approach them (unless there's a proper conflict of interest or legitimate excuse that has nothing to do with not wanting the case).

Barristers don't get hired directly by clients - they get brought in by the solicitor. They are therefore allowed to refuse.

We don't have the same system of 'court-appointed' counsel as they do in the US - that's on US TV shows, and it's a bit different here.

Most of the lawyers I know say they're "just doing their job". That's not as much my thing.

Thanks for that post it was very informative. As for them saying "just doing their job", it must be somewhat difficult. What if the murderer is declared not guilty? I know that everybody has a right to fair and equal access to the justice system, but I would find it immoral to let a murderer or rapist free.

[spectroscopy]

if you defend them and they're guilty - they'll probably get a sentence, evidence is evidence

[Russ]

No, but really, by just watching the news there's so many famous people walking out of a courtroom guarded by their scumbag looking lawyer. Every news show I've seen this. Ik there's a lot of criminal cases dealt with per year, but it's an insult to society to defend someone from a serious crime that they committed, like the one someone mentioned above. It actually amazes me.
<snip>
The worst was the Dnepropetrovsk maniacs, they killed 22 people and footage was leaked ONLINE of them stabbing and hammering a guy before their trial, and some guy still defended them.

I don't see how you can say this and then say

What you said is right though, everyone deserves a fair serve of justice,

Either people are entitled to a legal defense and equality under the criminal justice system, or they're not. You don't get to arbitrarily decide whether or not they should have a lawyer based on an emotional response.

but when they go in there and blab out shit like "he has mental problems", "he was suffering -----" it's just wrong.

Are you a health professional qualified to comment on whether someone has mental health issues and the extent of those issues?

Thanks for that post it was very informative. As for them saying "just doing their job", it must be somewhat difficult. What if the murderer is declared not guilty? I know that everybody has a right to fair and equal access to the justice system, but I would find it immoral to let a murderer or rapist free.

Yeah, it does suck. The flip side of this specific ethical dilemma though is whether it is moral to deny somebody their right of representation, because of something they (allegedly) have done. There's also a good quote that's applicable to this situation, which is that the legal system is a method of dispute resolution, not about fairness. It's a pretty hard spot to be in and I feel a lot of lawyers handle it by focusing on their job as being purely legal rather than them being responsible for passing judgement. Similar to medical treatment of criminals in a way.

[Professor Polonsky]

Tell me how many famous names you recognise here, Lala (only look for cases of The Queen v. Someone, the rest are commercial cases).

The way I would justify it to myself (if I was in that position) is tell myself that the court system is one of our most fundamental institutions as a society, and that without defendants getting fair representation the system would be corrupted. The harm I might cause by letting a guilty child-rapist walk free (and it is a serious one) is offset by the greater good of maintaining a functioning justice system.

[lala1911]

I don't see how you can say this and then say

Either people are entitled to a legal defense and equality under the criminal justice system, or they're not. You don't get to arbitrarily decide whether or not they should have a lawyer based on an emotional response.

Are you a health professional qualified to comment on whether someone has mental health issues and the extent of those issues?

Yeah, it does suck. The flip side of this specific ethical dilemma though is whether it is moral to deny somebody their right of representation, because of something they (allegedly) have done. There's also a good quote that's applicable to this situation, which is that the legal system is a method of dispute resolution, not about fairness. It's a pretty hard spot to be in and I feel a lot of lawyers handle it by focusing on their job as being purely legal rather than them being responsible for passing judgement. Similar to medical treatment of criminals in a way.

Yup, everyone deserves a trial. I don't think you rightly interpreted what I had said though.. by law, everyone is allowed to argue their case aren't they? Although I think it's absurd that someone would defend a criminal from a serious crime. Obviously.. they must go to court and plead their case, but, who would actually do the deed for the criminal? Wouldn't they feel extremely guilty themselves?.. after all, they would be committing what I would see as a moral crime.

No I'm not a qualified health professional, but it doesn't take a genius to know that lawyers are going to make up bullshit to lessen the criminal's sentence. Do you actually believe what lawyers say?

This is just my opinion though. Some of you may have a vested interest in law though, so I can't deny any facts though.

Enjoying replying to this, because I'm just going to ignore this thread now.

[pi]

No I'm not a qualified health professional, but it doesn't take a genius to know that lawyers are going to make up bullshit to lessen the criminal's sentence. Do you actually believe what lawyers say?

I'm not a qualified health professional either, and this is going to be politically incorrect, but I'm inclined to agree with the above too.