SPECIALIST DROPOUT?

[Greatness]

^^ yeah i was referring to scaled scores as i said earlier hahha no worries dude

[Gloamglozer]

cheers for the thoughts.


my main question was Will Universities even look at my spesh study score or will they mainly look at methods?

If you don't have a study score for it, then they most likely won't look at it.  Basically they look at this:

1.  Pre-requisites - if you've fulfilled them, then you've got a chance to receive an offer.
2.  Clearly-In ATAR - if you get above it, and achieved number 1, then you're in the course.
3.  Other requirements - such as interviews, placement tests, folios only apply to some courses.

Note that 2 and 3 can be interchanged depending on the course.

Thanks for the response.

will they also check the study score for each individual subject if your atar is not clearly-in for second round offers?

lets just say i want to do a BA of science/commerce- I need a 85 ATAR wth pre- reqs of at least 30 in english, 35 methods and or/spec, 35 in physics and or/ chem

at the end of the year i get a an 80 ATAR- not in CLEARLY-IN  zone. They go through my subjects and see i have a 35 in methods and see i have also done spec and got a 30. will this be an advantage? or will they not care? OR will they just choose the next highest ATARS?

also, does spesh cant brain bustingly hard in semester 2?

If they pre-requisites say that you need at least 35 in Methods, 35 in Chem or physics, 30 in English, then that is what you need to get, at the very least.  If you met the pre-req for Methods and Chem but got 29 in English, then no matter how high you ATAR is, you won't be able to get into the course.

If you get an 80 ATAR, depending on supply and demand of the course, the Clearly-In may rise or drop.  If you're lucky enough for it to drop to below 80, then you're in.  But if you're not, then unless if you're a SEAS applicant, then chances of getting in are usually quite slim.

[vitaminC]

cheers for the thoughts.


my main question was Will Universities even look at my spesh study score or will they mainly look at methods?

If you don't have a study score for it, then they most likely won't look at it.  Basically they look at this:

1.  Pre-requisites - if you've fulfilled them, then you've got a chance to receive an offer.
2.  Clearly-In ATAR - if you get above it, and achieved number 1, then you're in the course.
3.  Other requirements - such as interviews, placement tests, folios only apply to some courses.

Note that 2 and 3 can be interchanged depending on the course.

Thanks for the response.

will they also check the study score for each individual subject if your atar is not clearly-in for second round offers?

lets just say i want to do a BA of science/commerce- I need a 85 ATAR wth pre- reqs of at least 30 in english, 35 methods and or/spec, 35 in physics and or/ chem

at the end of the year i get a an 80 ATAR- not in CLEARLY-IN  zone. They go through my subjects and see i have a 35 in methods and see i have also done spec and got a 30. will this be an advantage? or will they not care? OR will they just choose the next highest ATARS?

also, does spesh cant brain bustingly hard in semester 2?

If they pre-requisites say that you need at least 35 in Methods, 35 in Chem or physics, 30 in English, then that is what you need to get, at the very least.  If you met the pre-req for Methods and Chem but got 29 in English, then no matter how high you ATAR is, you won't be able to get into the course.

If you get an 80 ATAR, depending on supply and demand of the course, the Clearly-In may rise or drop.  If you're lucky enough for it to drop to below 80, then you're in.  But if you're not, then unless if you're a SEAS applicant, then chances of getting in are usually quite slim.

i think you misinterpreted the question. 

i was asking if i met all the pre- reqs but my atar is lower than the clearly-in, will they look at my subjects? and will doing specilaist increase any chances? or is it simply taken purely by the next highest ATAR?

also. hows BA science at monash?

[Darren]

Do yourself a favor and get the hell out of specialist if you're having doubts. Further> specialist if you're doubting yourself.. you need time for other subjects so just get out of it

[Gloamglozer]

cheers for the thoughts.


my main question was Will Universities even look at my spesh study score or will they mainly look at methods?

If you don't have a study score for it, then they most likely won't look at it.  Basically they look at this:

1.  Pre-requisites - if you've fulfilled them, then you've got a chance to receive an offer.
2.  Clearly-In ATAR - if you get above it, and achieved number 1, then you're in the course.
3.  Other requirements - such as interviews, placement tests, folios only apply to some courses.

Note that 2 and 3 can be interchanged depending on the course.

Thanks for the response.

will they also check the study score for each individual subject if your atar is not clearly-in for second round offers?

lets just say i want to do a BA of science/commerce- I need a 85 ATAR wth pre- reqs of at least 30 in english, 35 methods and or/spec, 35 in physics and or/ chem

at the end of the year i get a an 80 ATAR- not in CLEARLY-IN  zone. They go through my subjects and see i have a 35 in methods and see i have also done spec and got a 30. will this be an advantage? or will they not care? OR will they just choose the next highest ATARS?

also, does spesh cant brain bustingly hard in semester 2?

If they pre-requisites say that you need at least 35 in Methods, 35 in Chem or physics, 30 in English, then that is what you need to get, at the very least.  If you met the pre-req for Methods and Chem but got 29 in English, then no matter how high you ATAR is, you won't be able to get into the course.

If you get an 80 ATAR, depending on supply and demand of the course, the Clearly-In may rise or drop.  If you're lucky enough for it to drop to below 80, then you're in.  But if you're not, then unless if you're a SEAS applicant, then chances of getting in are usually quite slim.

i think you misinterpreted the question. 

i was asking if i met all the pre- reqs but my atar is lower than the clearly-in, will they look at my subjects? and will doing specilaist increase any chances? or is it simply taken purely by the next highest ATAR?

also. hows BA science at monash?

If you've met all the pre-requisites but you didn't get on or above the Clearly-In ATAR, then you'll fall into a category known as the "middle band".  This simply means that you're not in the Clearly-In and you're not in the Clearly-Out, so you're in the "zone of uncertainty" as I call it.

Basically, in the middle band, selection officers place you on a list.  The requirements as to how high you are on that "list" is different for every course and every institution.  For example, at Monash, I know that how high you are depends on what subjects you have completed.  If you look at Bachelor of Commerce/Bachelor of Science at Monash, the middle band states:

Middle-band: A study score of at least 30 in two of biology, chemistry, geography, mathematical methods (either), physics, psychology, specialist mathematics = an aggregate 2 points higher per study - Maximum 6 points. An additional 2 aggregate points for the completion of one of classical societies and cultures, history (any), international politics: international studies, international politics: national politics, literature or LOTE (any) (total aggregate points = ; SEAS

So if you've just completed Chemistry and Specialist Maths with a study score of at least 30, then you would have gained 6 points and be higher up on the list as compared to someone who didn't score any points in the middle band.  From the middle band, selection officers will select the students who are highest on the list.  How many they select will depend on the quota of the course.

[Readinya]

Spesh may be a great thing to aim for, and I can tell you how satisfying it is to get that oh-god-so-hard question correct. I just did that last night and i swear i was punching the air for victory for about 5 minutes lol.

Having said that, spesh is a lot of work, and requires consistency. Falling behind may get you into trouble (my class is doing every exercise, every question), and the stress of catching up can be enormous, when you've also got to consider that you are doing other subjects that require equal attention.

Further, on the otherhand, was something i found to be relatively easy, but i got almost no feeling of victory after i completed one of the questions. I rarely did any of the textbook work; just listened to the teacher and helped out my friends during class (despite not having actually done the work - i don't know how i figured out the question and they didn't; they're the ones writing in their books!) At the end of every module i just crammed. For the end of year exam crammed about 8 exams + juggled to make up my notes book. And it was the small, unnoticed questions that you stuff up in the exam which will stuff your SS up. Note: i have a weirdish personality, and most other people in my class actually have to do the work in order to understand the finer nuances of the topic. My "wing-it-and-hope-for-the-best" approach is definitely not the best way to go.

I didn't care for Further. I care a lot more for Spesh. Our spesh class has only 6 people. i know about 10 people who are very capable of doing Spesh but chickened out. Tell anyone that you're doing Spesh and they will hold you in awe.

But that glory is nothing if you fall behind, hindering your understanding across ALL of your subjects and creating undue stress.

So what my rambling post means is: consider ALL of your options first: Can you balance spesh with your subjects?  

[vitaminC]

Spesh may be a great thing to aim for, and I can tell you how satisfying it is to get that oh-god-so-hard question correct. I just did that last night and i swear i was punching the air for victory for about 5 minutes lol.

Having said that, spesh is a lot of work, and requires consistency. Falling behind may get you into trouble (my class is doing every exercise, every question), and the stress of catching up can be enormous, when you've also got to consider that you are doing other subjects that require equal attention.

Further, on the otherhand, was something i found to be relatively easy, but i got almost no feeling of victory after i completed one of the questions. I rarely did any of the textbook work; just listened to the teacher and helped out my friends during class (despite not having actually done the work - i don't know how i figured out the question and they didn't; they're the ones writing in their books!) At the end of every module i just crammed. For the end of year exam crammed about 8 exams + juggled to make up my notes book. And it was the small, unnoticed questions that you stuff up in the exam which will stuff your SS up. Note: i have a weirdish personality, and most other people in my class actually have to do the work in order to understand the finer nuances of the topic. My "wing-it-and-hope-for-the-best" approach is definitely not the best way to go.

I didn't care for Further. I care a lot more for Spesh. Our spesh class has only 6 people. i know about 10 people who are very capable of doing Spesh but chickened out. Tell anyone that you're doing Spesh and they will hold you in awe.

But that glory is nothing if you fall behind, hindering your understanding across ALL of your subjects and creating undue stress.

So what my rambling post means is: consider ALL of your options first: Can you balance spesh with your subjects? 

your rant= god like 

i guess i find spesh challenging& difficult BUT doable(?). the thinking bits like circle theorms/ vectors is generally where i get raped. but the rest like application and algebra i'm alright at- when i say alright i mean i can pass.

My current viewpoint is that further is a free ride, a guaranteed 35+, with minimal effort as compared to specialist where my goal is somewhere between 35-40 [scaled] and i bust my ass for the entire year. Is that a fair assumption to make about specialist?

the thing gloam said about the middleband is swaying me towards spesh- because in reality i know the highest possible ATAR i can achieve is 83 and i need about 85.

Can you balance spesh with your subjects?
well, so far my head is out of the water and i can breathe, but as the year goes on who knows? i may well be drowning in the metaphorical water which is VCE.

i spoke to my VCE coordinator. He said the last day for transfers was Monday so i have a couple of days to think.

So far its
Spesh 65%
Further 35%

[Greatness]

I wouldnt necessarily say that further is a 'free ride' and 'a guaranteed 35+' like a few of my mates found out, if you do shit all throughout the year i.e. cram for sacs and exams, then you'll do shit. these guys are actually good at maths as well, they got less than 35.

[Readinya]

your rant= god like 

This is a victory. *punches air*

[Water]

Another Tip xD:


Getting 83+ is achievable if you bust your butts off, and get tutor (if your economy allows you too). Having said that, if your already disadvantaged in maths, say, you have a really bad foundation from yr 10 onwards due to whatever, and you find math methods somewhat, not copeable. Then I suggest back away. However, if you believe your foundations are strong, then do specialist.

If you do specialist, and you perform well , by means of getting a 35, be proud that you can hold your head up high when you say, i got a 35 in specialist


I endorse specialist, but, if your ATAR dream is something that is hard to reach, further maths is the safe route..you gotta look at your options, and whats the best way to get that score, given that we don't know whats your circumstances




Most of the guys here, are probably doing specialist knowing they are already awesome at mathematics in general and confident to take up a challenge.

[vitaminC]

Getting 83+ is achievable if you bust your butts off, and get tutor (if your economy allows you too). Having said that, if your already disadvantaged in maths, say, you have a really bad foundation from yr 10 onwards due to whatever, and you find math methods somewhat, not copeable. Then I suggest back away. However, if you believe your foundations are strong, then do specialist.

If you do specialist, and you perform well , by means of getting a 35, be proud that you can hold your head up high when you say, i got a 35 in specialist


I endorse specialist, but, if your ATAR dream is something that is hard to reach, further maths is the safe route..you gotta look at your options, and whats the best way to get that score, given that we don't know whats your circumstances




Most of the guys here, are probably doing specialist knowing they are already awesome at mathematics in general and confident to take up a challenge.

well i would say i'm better than most at maths- but not so much as gifted. i'm probably the last rank in the class for spesh but i find methods a breeze compared to spesh. I guess im in the awkward zone between methods and spesh.

i get tutored in all my subjects- probs 9 hours a week. its been 1 week and i'm already over year 12.

does spesh get harder as the year progresses? because the stuff i'm doing now is relatively hard. or is that what spesh is meant to be like?

[Water]

The difficulty of specialist is justified by the mark up. And if your getting tutored weekly , for 9 hours a week, (Is it group tutor?) if so, you should minimize those 9 hours to 2 - 3 hours with one on one tutor. Because the quality you get from a 1 on 1 tutor > the quantity in a group tutor, where in one on one, your tutor will address "your concerns" in mathematics.

I"m basing my evidence for specialist, on friends doing specialist, and they are finding it somewhat moderately hard. All part of the fun.

[nacho]

I know people have said something about "do specialist, it's so much more interesting...helps u in life...compliments methods..etc" but, seeing your a ~C student, I would advise AGAINST IT. To answer some of your questions: Unis do not take into account that you do further instead of spesh - if spesh is not a pre-req. You could seriously do home-ec, it apps, w/e and as long as you make their pre-requisites, you will not be disadvantaged in any way, whatsoever.

Also, since you're not so good at maths, you probably won't understand spesh concepts as quickly as you'd like and eventually become quite frustrated. Stick to further, I know people who got 50 in further, yet 35 in methods..