Provide reasoning for post deletion

[dcc]

Often on VN, a user will create a post (which is deemed inappropriate by the powers that be) that will be deleted by a moderator / administrator. At the moment, it does not seem that providing the REASON for post deletion is practised by the moderation team.  I know from personal experience, there is nothing more frustrating then having a post deleted (especially when the post, in my opinion, was contributing to a discussion) and not knowing why.

Why should it be done?

• Provides users with helpful information as to why their posts are being deleted (sometimes users may not even notice a post deletion, it doesn't seem to trigger any sort of action within the forum software)
• Transparency.  Users will be able to know that they can trust the moderation team, as all deletions are being done per the code of conduct (i.e. no personal vendettas / silly deletes)
• Professionalism.  I know from other forums (e.g. the GameArena forums hosted by BigPond) that when you see an active log of deletions on a thread, it warns other uses that posting similar content is similarly unacceptable.  It may transpire that deletion information is provided to a user personally, however if these deletions were done in a public fashion (as per 'transparency') this could prove a powerful aid in demolishing the common spam that VN faces.

How should it be done?
Possible methods include:

• Send a simple PM to users upon the deletion of a post, stating why the post was inappropriate and thus deleted.
• Provide a post in the thread in question giving a quick explanation of why the post was inappropriate and thus deleted.

Why some say it shouldn't be done:
Now some members of the moderation team feel that the above measures would place too much work on them.

I got about 6 reported posts from this thread alone today I'm pretty sure. Would be too difficult to give a reason for deletion for every post.  And anywya, what as up with the reported posts from this thread? Whats all the commotion?

I say to them, do your job.  If you really are interested in providing a vibrant and knowledgeable place for VCE students to communicate, then the effort involved in writing out a single sentence explaining a deletion should be a price that you are willing to pay.

Why did I suggest this?
My reasons for suggesting this is because recently I posted in a thread, and had 3 posts deleted, without any reasoning given.  There is nothing more frustrating then not knowing why something has been deleted (especially when the posts were on-topic).  That is why I have suggested this.

[enwiabe]

I stand by costargh's reasoning for post deletion. A cursory glance at the deletion board reveals more than 300 PAGES of deleted posts. This undertaking would be too cumbersome for moderators who give their own time to this community to keep it in order.

If you think a post of yours was deleted unfairly (this is actually included in the CoC for this very reason),  you are more than welcome to contact me via a private channel and I will investigate the matter for you, or if it was me who deleted the post, shed light on my reasoning.

What dcc failed to mention in his post was that he did this, and I explained to him why I deleted the posts. You did find out why it was deleted, all you had to do was ask. PM me, I'll tell you why and you can have a chance to convince me that I'm wrong.

[dcc]

What dcc failed to mention in his post was that he did this, and I explained to him why I deleted the posts. You did find out why it was deleted, all you had to do was ask. PM me, I'll tell you why and you can have a chance to convince me that I'm wrong.

After I had been banned for making these posts.  But that's irrelevant.  It shouldn't be too difficult to send a single PM to a user / make a post.  Too much work? Hire some more moderators. 

A system which relies upon the user to determine reasoning does not educate peers as to what sort of posts are deemed inappropriate.

In addition, perhaps as a result of this system, the number of posts that need to be deleted will decrease. 

[enwiabe]

You wouldn't have been banned if you didn't stop posting things which were against the CoC.

The CoC informs you about what is appropriate. We've never had this problem before. Nobody (or a rare few) have ever complained about reasons for post deletions. This indicates to me that most people can glean understanding from the reasoning behind their posts being deleted.

[costargh]

Why are you making such a big thing about this?

Whinge and cry all you want, the system at the moment works.

[dcc]

This indicates to me that most people can glean understanding from the reasoning behind their posts being deleted.

Or perhaps they are wary of being banned for questioning authority?  I really do not think there would be much effort involved in providing reasoning for deletion in the future, and as I have stated multiple times above, the public knowledge of a post deletion serves to educate all members of VN, not just those who have their posts deleted.  

[enwiabe]

I have never banned anyone for using private channels to calmly discuss a moderating decision. That is libelous of you to insinuate that I would be intimidating about such a thing, when both the CoC, and the signature that I append to each one of my messages encourages the exact opposite.

Methinks you're simply a bit cut up about your own run in with the moderation process.

[transgression]

I agree with robbo - edit the post instead of purely deleting

[Glockmeister]

Why are you making such a big thing about this?

Whinge and cry all you want, the system at the moment works.

Because the status quo is not necessarily a optimal solution.

I support dcc's position on this matter, just for the record. Even with 300 post reports per day, if you are intending to ban or remove posts by users, the moderator should already have a reason in their minds on why they are deleting posts (if they don't, then I would be seriously questioning their judgement). It is not hard to just type up a few words. Even a word or something like Section 3 Ban or something would suffice.

[Fyrefly]

(I've no idea what the back-story to this is, nor do I want to.)

I think this is a good idea in theory, as it would introduce more transparency in regards to moderator actions.
However, obviously I've no idea how practical or impractical it would be to actually implement.


Out of curiosity... how many of those 300 pages is that porn spam?
It's been cropping up a lot lately -.-

Does anyone think this thread needs a touch of droodles?

[Cthulhu]

Why are you making such a big thing about this?

Whinge and cry all you want, the system at the moment works.

I know of another place that has a system like this. I think people called it Nazi Germany. Posts disappear without reason when they shouldn't be deleted and when they should be deleted they aren't.

In this post you didn't lock a thread to "avoid accountability". What the hell is that? You're a mod and you're meant to take accountability. Do your job.

If we don't have a reason why a post was deleted how are we meant to know what we're doing wrong? For all I know hundreds of my posts have been deleted and I wouldn't know why because no one told me that they were deleted or why they were deleted. How are new users meant to know what they're doing wrong if their post gets deleted and they have no reason why it was deleted?

It just seems stupid to not have a reason.

[Flaming_Arrow]

i agree with dcc!

[costargh]

I didn't lock that thread because I was seeking other moderators opinions: I am relaitvely new to moderation and don't understand in as much depth as Mao and others how these things work.

[dcc]

If the moderator's believe that it would be too much work to implement this sort of system site-wide, I still believe it is worthy of a trail in a smaller subset of the site.

Although enwiabe (in the IRC channel) seems to have disregarded the idea completely ( @enwiabe: a rarity, to be sure for any activity to occur in robbo's brain ), I'm certain that some of the other moderators could at least attempt something similar to this.  VN would be vastly improved because of it.

[ninwa]

I'm afraid I agree with dcc.

It takes an extra what, minute? to type a reason for a deleted post. Sure there are 300 pages of deleted posts, but he is not asking us to give a reason for every single one of those. Just that from now on, a reason be given. How many posts are deleted every week? Seriously?

When we agreed to be global moderators we also agreed to invest time into this site, and a minute every now and then is surely not too much to ask.

We're in a position of power (albeit a rather cursory one), and we should be fully accountable for our actions.