Private/public school debate [offtopic from UoM General Chat]

[thushan]

Not just that as well, we need people who want to be a teacher actually feel as though it's a genuine prospect. I've wanted to be a teacher for a few years now, and probably still do, but I was always dissuaded by my own teachers because "you're too smart for that". That shouldn't be the case. Obviously I don't think I am, but I know that I certainly have a capacity to provide a better living for myself and for my future family, and it's really regrettable that teaching isn't a viable way to do that. I daresay there are countless others who have the same feeling. Who would really love to be teachers, but know it's too risky financially.

Amen. When I was at school, I really wanted to be a teacher. However, a number of things turned me off teaching:

1. Parents were furious when they found out - they threatened to pull me out of Scotch and put me back to my old public school because they didn't want to waste money on me.

2. The job security is not that great.

3. For the work one does, the pay is not particularly good, and I do want to have a comfortable lifestyle with my future family.

4. As was said, I was told that I could "do way better".

[Professor Polonsky]

Are you sure about #2, Thush? Teaching is generally considered to be a high job security profession.

[Reckoner]

Are you sure about #2, Thush? Teaching is generally considered to be a high job security profession.

Once you've had a permanent, full time position for a few year it is generally very secure. The trouble is getting that job can sometimes involves years of CRT, as well as contracts that only last 6 or 12 months. It can be very tough for the first few years.

[Mr. Study]

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Geez, I didn't realise the proportion of students from 'top - upper' quarter being so high. Just wanted to add but you could apply for this category:

Equity consideration
Students whose parents have either a Commonwealth Health Care Card or a Pension Card, and who qualify for income support benefits, are eligible to apply for Equity Consideration. Students who are Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islanders are also eligible to apply for Equity Consideration.
Eligibility for equity consideration will be confirmed using
    the primary cardholder's Centrelink Customer Reference Number
    your child's Centrelink Customer Reference Number.
Both these numbers will need to be entered into the online application form.
Applying for equity consideration does not reduce your chance of being offered a place at a selective entry high school.

And, just another thing (all from the DEECD website):

For each selective entry high school 85% of Year 9 enrolments will be filled in this manner.
In addition, 10% of enrolments will be filled through an Equity Consideration category and a further 5% of the enrolment will be filled through the Principal's Discretion category.

I don't think I could comment on this but I thought it was interesting to note.

[vox nihili]

Amen. When I was at school, I really wanted to be a teacher. However, a number of things turned me off teaching:

1. Parents were furious when they found out - they threatened to pull me out of Scotch and put me back to my old public school because they didn't want to waste money on me.

2. The job security is not that great.

3. For the work one does, the pay is not particularly good, and I do want to have a comfortable lifestyle with my future family.

4. As was said, I was told that I could "do way better".

Which is a damn bloody shame, because you would be (and indeed are) a good teacher.

[brenden]

I think simply raising pay for teachers would go a long way. It would shoot the ATAR requirement way up and incentivise the best to go and teach. I suppose this is imbalances because really "te best" are closer to "the rich" but, hopefully that would slowly, then rapidly decrease. Could also add incentive schemes - higher pay for different areas or schools, but I haven't thought this through at all.

[Professor Polonsky]

I'm back with more graphs.

As i was saying earlier, selective entry schools are far from equal or fair either. In some ways, they're bastions of wealth and inequality as much as private schools are. I looked at the MySchools data (with thanks to b^3) and made this graph to help illustrate it. The colours can make it a little deceptive to the eyes, focus on each colour individually and compare it between the graphs. St.albans secondary is a closeish local school in a fairly ghetto area, included for comparison.

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Also one with data-labels:

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Will have slightly more comprehensive graphs a little later.

I'm not sure this is really as meaningful as you might think it is.

Rather than income, they calculate those values using information on parents' occupation and highest educational attainment, as well as the geographical location of the school and its student population, and percentage of indigenous students.