The Melbourne model confuses.. if I want to study Law, what do I have to do?

[krzysiek]

Hey,

Well, as the time of selecting courses approaches, I find myself wondering what it is that I want to do after Year 12.

I have been looking at the VTAC guide, looking up and down some courses, but nothing seems to appeal too greatly, as of yet. I am hoping attending the open day will sway my mind a little, perhaps giving me a firmer idea in what I would like to persue.

Nonetheless, the Melbourne model confuses me. From my understanding, in other Uni's for example, if you want to study Civil Engineering, you simply apply for the course, and if you get accepted, then you're in and that's it. With what I can understand of the Melbourne model, you apply for Engineering (requiring a low ENTER score, potentially wasting your hard study) and you study general engineering, later progressing into a Master's degree.

But at the end of the general three years or so of learning the general engineering, it seems that you will have to fight to get into the Master's degree that you want?

For example, if there is anything that I am interested in, I guess you could say it is Law. Now, if I want to study Law at Melbourne, I need to study what? I think it's Arts that i need to study, also requiring a comparable ENTER of only around 85 - 88 to get in. So, when I get into Arts, what is it that I do? Study the generals or Law, and then after three years, what happens? Do I need to fight and compete with people to actually get into the course / Master's that i want to do? What are the odds of getting in, how hard is it?

Sorry for the questions,

It's all quite a big concern for me.

Regards

[costargh]

http://jd.law.unimelb.edu.au/go/future-students/pathways-to-the-melbourne-jd

[mypurpleundercracka]

"If you already have an undergraduate degree or are in the final year of your degree:

Apply for the Melbourne JD now."

does that mean u gotta do like 3 yrs before u can transfer into a law course? wtf

[Voltaire]

The JD (law) and master in engineering are 2 year degrees you do after a 3 year 'new-generation' undergraduate (arts/commerce/biomed/science)
Yea you need decent grades to get into the JD/master (i.e not fail), but if you went to a 4-5 year undergraduat law degree at monsh, you would still need to pass the subjects to obtain the degree.
the advatage is that you have more flexibilty to try different subjects, i.e ur less 'locked-in', and that you can get two degrees (e.g Commerce (finance) and JD(law)) in 5 years.
disadvatage is that if you'll be at uni for an extra year, than if you did straight law/engineering as an undergrad at another uni

[mark_alec]

(requiring a low ENTER score, potentially wasting your hard study)

You should not care about 'wasting' your ENTER by applying for a course with a lower ENTER than you could apply for. What you should care about is choosing a course that most interests you.

As for the JD at Melbourne, any New Generation degree is a pathway. All you need is good results at uni, good results on the LSAT, and an application letter.

[krzysiek]

As quoted about, "ie - not fail" I don't think this is realistic for the Melbourne Uni though? I mean, I have read they would expect a High distinction from every subject, and then you're considered "competitive" against others wanting to major in law. I don't think "just passing" or "not failing" would cut it. Not that I intend to just pass, but I would rather not have the pressure of Needing to get HD's in every subject just to be considered "competitive" and yet still having a chance of not progressing into the Masters.

In terms of jobs, if I went to La Trobe for example for Law, how would it look in terms of being employed? Are there a lot of unemployed lawyers out there that went to uni's other than Melb. Uni, and for that reason find it hard to get it a job?

[mark_alec]

There are *lots* of lawyers (and law schools) in Victoria. It is a highly competitive field.

[polky]

From experience related to me by my cousin (who is a practicing lawyer who studied law at UniMelb a few years back), people who do law at universities other than Melbourne still get employed (gasphorror).  He works at a middle-tier law firm that employs people from Monash, Deakin, UniMelb etc.  

So don't worry, your life isn't ruined if you don't get into UniMelb JD.  I think personal qualities and demonstrable capabilities are equally important as which Uni you went to.  Law is very competitive, so wherever you go be prepared to work hard at uni to gain a spot in one of the top-tier law firms.

[krzysiek]

That's good to hear, relieves some of what I have been hearing about people who don't go Melb Uni / Monash find it very difficult to get jobs as lawyers. In terms of working very hard to ensure getting a good job, or at least in the top-tier law firms, how hard is it to actually get and maintain the high standards and grades in uni? Is it much more intense that VCE in terms of doing all the homework and keeping on top of everything on a daily basis?

[ninwa]

I don't think it's that much more intense. However, usually the work is covered at a really fast rate, and because of the low contact hours, most of your studying will actually be done at home on your own. So the hard part is no longer having teachers constantly on your back telling you what to do and reminding you to hand in work. You have to take the initiative and keep up with deadlines yourself - nobody will care if you forget and hand it in late. It can be a little difficult to get used to.

As for how hard it is to get high grades, that depends on the course you're doing. I'm doing arts and law, and with the same effort in both courses I can get very good marks in arts and very bad marks in law

[krzysiek]

Wow, so essentially you're saying that Law is tremendously harder to do well in, as compared to Arts? But, I mean, If arts is easy to do well in, then I could do well in Arts until I am able to get into Law at Melb Uni, in which case I'm safe.. because i'm in? Or am I getting it wrong?

Cheers for the replies btw

[ninwa]

Arts is easy to do well in if you're a humanities type person - i.e. you like reading, writing essays etc. If you're a maths/science person then definitely do science or something because you'll most likely get better marks that way.

Law is very difficult to do well in unless you're a genius it's practically impossible to get above 90 in a law subject.

[krzysiek]

But to actually get INTO the Law subject, you first do, from what I understand, General Arts? for three years, and depending on the grade you get here, this defines whether you get into Law or not? So if this is correct, getting into Law won't be too bad if you're good at reading/essay writing, correct?

And when you said do Science, you can still get into Law from science, but isn't it harder in a way? I definitely am much better in terms of maths, probably, than I am in terms of English etc. But i wouldn't want to do Science if it wouldn't really lead me to Law, or at least, not with the same advantage that Arts would.

[ninwa]

I thought any undergraduate degree could get you into law?

I'm not sure what the format of the LSAT - maybe having a more artsy background helps there.

Just a warning though, your English skills do need to be quite good if you want to do law, regardless of what undergrad degree you choose.

[krzysiek]

I have been getting all A's for SAC's this year (in a school where English SAC grades tend to stay the same in exams). But i guess it is still much harder than that