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October 21, 2025, 08:18:19 pm

Author Topic: Ho Ho... No  (Read 33544 times)  Share 

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silverpixeli

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Re: Ho Ho... No
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2016, 11:45:50 pm »
+2
Integral calculus (pretty sure it's definite but correct me if wrong...)
Anyway: Calculate the area under the following functions in the indicated region:
f(x) = 3sin(2x) dx from x=0 to x=3pi

I have two answers but I'm confused so I would like some help (the answer isn't needed but some guidance in the right direction)

1) I antidiff. the function to get: -1/6 cos (6x) + c (am I even allowed to change the thing inside the bracket to begin with, left me thinking this solution isn't correct)
2) [-1/6 cos(6x)]0-3 - [-1/6 cos(6x)]0-3 (I don't know how to use the equation writer but this is from 0 to 3pi)
3) I then got confused, do I sub in 3pi? and 0 for the other one which will result in 0? or do I just sub in 3 alone?

The second solution I got was:
1) Antidiff. to get -3/2 cos(2x) + c (according to the formula sheet this is what I do)
2) [-3/2 cos(2x)]0-3 - [-3/2 cos(2x)]0-3
3) I'm still not sure whether to sub in 3pi or something else

Help will be +1 and appreciated. And if someone can help with the question above thank you :)

What's the difference between definite and indefinite (is it that one is specific i.e. it's defined to a specific area?)

Not able to answer the whole lot right now but can offer this on the very last part:


An indefinite integral is an answer to the question 'what do I differentiate (w.r.t. x) if I want to end up with this thing between the ∫ and the dx: f(x)?'


A definite integral is an answer to the question 'what do I get if i slice the x axis (or at least the part between the two terminals) into an infinite number of tiny chunks, multiply each chunk's tiny width by f(x), and add together all the results'

It turns out that this definite integral thing represents the same thing as the net area 'under a graph' because you can imagine splitting the area into tiny rectangles with width dx and height f(x) and adding these tiny rectangles gives you the total net area ('net' because if f(x) is negative you have negative 'heights' and so negative-area 'rectangles' actually take away from the sum total)

It also turns out that (and this is my guess as to why the notations are so similar?) that if you want to calculate a definite integral, you don't have to go and split up the x axis into infinite tiny pieces, you can just solve an indefinite integral instead, and then sub-in the terminals like:

*

where those square brackets mean substitute in b, substitute in a, and then find the difference between those two results (you are probably familiar with this bit):



That's a huge help because antidifferentiation (indefinite integrals) is usually a lot easier than adding an infinite number of things together (definite integrals) and this fact is so profound it earned the name 'The Fundamental Theorem of Integral Calculus'

Hope that perspective helps a bit

May have time to tackle your other questions a night or two from now if nobody else gets around to them first!



*this way of writing it isn't perfect. I specifically mean to antidifferentiate inside the square brackets THEN substitute into the answer. But I think it's a little more natural than the more common form something like:

where
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 11:50:09 pm by silverpixeli »
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Re: Ho Ho... No
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2016, 12:49:19 am »
+2
Integral calculus (pretty sure it's definite but correct me if wrong...)
Anyway: Calculate the area under the following functions in the indicated region:
f(x) = 3sin(2x) dx from x=0 to x=3pi

I have two answers but I'm confused so I would like some help (the answer isn't needed but some guidance in the right direction)

1) I antidiff. the function to get: -1/6 cos (6x) + c (am I even allowed to change the thing inside the bracket to begin with, left me thinking this solution isn't correct)
2) [-1/6 cos(6x)]0-3 - [-1/6 cos(6x)]0-3 (I don't know how to use the equation writer but this is from 0 to 3pi)
3) I then got confused, do I sub in 3pi? and 0 for the other one which will result in 0? or do I just sub in 3 alone?

The second solution I got was:
1) Antidiff. to get -3/2 cos(2x) + c (according to the formula sheet this is what I do)
2) [-3/2 cos(2x)]0-3 - [-3/2 cos(2x)]0-3
3) I'm still not sure whether to sub in 3pi or something else

Since the question is asking for the area below the function, I'm assuming it means the area bounded by the function and the x-axis from x=0 to x=3. This means we can't just evaluate a definite integral, we have to take into account the areas below the x-axis.

We know the period of the function is . If you do a rough sketch or use the CAS to graph the function, you'll see that there are six identical area sections (3 above and 3 below the x-axis) in the given region. So we only have to find the area of one section and multiply it by 6 to get the total area bounded by the function and the x-axis.

One area section is from 0 to .

So we are looking to evaluate:



Firstly you could take out the scale factor 3 and then anti-differentiate the integrand, following the rule on how to evaluate a definite integral. (shown by silverpixeli above)

Hopefully I've guided you in the right direction :) It's been a while since I've done this

Btw, I'm not too sure what you've done in your first answer and your substitution of 0 and 3pi but your anti-differentiation step in your second answer has been done correctly. :)

Let us know if you have anymore questions on evaluating the integral. :D
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blacksanta62

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Re: Ho Ho... No
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2016, 06:02:29 pm »
0
Atarnotes is lagging a lot for me and I couldn't respond yesterday (barely working today) but thanks Crypt and Pixeli. I can't see the image though so the steps aren't there, any suggestions? All I see is boxes with a little mountain and cloud  :D
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silverpixeli

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Re: Ho Ho... No
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2016, 07:05:41 pm »
+1
Atarnotes is lagging a lot for me and I couldn't respond yesterday (barely working today) but thanks Crypt and Pixeli. I can't see the image though so the steps aren't there, any suggestions? All I see is boxes with a little mountain and cloud  :D

Same problem for me with the equations, it appears that LaTeX isn't rendering properly right now. I'll let the admins know and hopefully it can be fixed asap.
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pi

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Re: Ho Ho... No
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2016, 07:08:09 pm »
0
Atarnotes is lagging a lot for me and I couldn't respond yesterday (barely working today) but thanks Crypt and Pixeli. I can't see the image though so the steps aren't there, any suggestions? All I see is boxes with a little mountain and cloud  :D

Just quote the post and you can see all the numbers.

blacksanta62

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Re: Ho Ho... No
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2016, 01:44:18 pm »
0
Find the coordinates of the centre and the radii of the circles with the following equations and sketch in each case:
f)3x^2 + 3y^2 +9x - 12y = -12

Thank you for the assistances
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pi

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Re: Ho Ho... No
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2016, 01:54:56 pm »
+1
Gotta complete the square a couple of times (I haven't done this in about 4 years so this might be done wrong but you get the gist)

3x^2 + 3y^2 +9x - 12y = -12
x^2 + 3x + y^2 - 4y = -4
(x^2 +3x + 9/4) + (y^2 -4y + 4) = -4 + 9/4 +4
(x + 3/2)^2 + (y + 2)^2 = (3/2)^2

Should be easy to sketch and find the points you're looking for now :)

blacksanta62

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Re: Ho Ho... No
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2016, 02:04:38 pm »
0
Gotta complete the square a couple of times (I haven't done this in about 4 years so this might be done wrong but you get the gist)

3x^2 + 3y^2 +9x - 12y = -12
x^2 + 3x + y^2 - 4y = -4
(x^2 +3x + 9/4) + (y^2 -4y + 4) = -4 + 9/4 +4
(x + 3/2)^2 + (y + 2)^2 = (3/2)^2

Should be easy to sketch and find the points you're looking for now :)

Okay :)

When I tried (before posting the original question) I got 81/16 and then 81^2/16^2 but that seemed wrong to me. Cheers pi. Would you be able to help with:
Find the parametric equations if:
x = 2 - 4 cos(t)
y = 1 + 4 sin(t)
t = [0, pi]

I got: (x - 2)^2 and (y - 1)^2 = 4
The domain [0,2]
the range [-1,3]

I was going off the examples in the textbook which can sometimes leave me with more questions than answers :P
« Last Edit: January 23, 2016, 02:09:38 pm by blacksanta62 »
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Re: Ho Ho... No
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2016, 02:09:11 pm »
+1
x = 2 - 4 cos(t), hence cos(t) = (2-x)/4
y = 1 + 4 sin(t), hence sin(t) = (y-1)/4
Using identity sin^2(t) + cos^2(t) = 1
(x-2)^2/16 + (y-1)^2/16 = 1
(x-2)^2 + (y-1)^2 = 4^2

I think :P

blacksanta62

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Re: Ho Ho... No
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2016, 02:11:22 pm »
0
That's what I got  :) but forgot about the = 1^2 because (1^2 = 1 so I left it out). Is it required for the answer to be right? Or should I leave it as 4^2 or 16?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2016, 02:34:06 pm by blacksanta62 »
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Re: Ho Ho... No
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2016, 02:12:37 pm »
+1
That's what I got  :) but forgot about the = 1^2 because I was told to leave it (1^2 = 1 so I left it out). Is it required for the answer to be right? Or should I leave it as 4^2

You didn't quite get the same as me, you had =4 while I had =4^2 :P I leave it as "4^2" mainly for your benefit so you can easily see the radius. In an exam I'd leave it as "16".

blacksanta62

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Re: Ho Ho... No
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2016, 02:20:11 pm »
0
So if given the equation, say: (x-2)^2/4 + (y+3)^2/9 = 1 and told to sketch it, the radius would be 1, centre (2,-3), a^2 = 4 ---> 2, b^2 = 9 ----> 3

I would then find vertices (for the x axis) via: (-2 + 2, -4) and ( 2 + 2, -4) and for the y (2, -3 + (-3)) and (2, 3 +(-3)
Then find x and y intercepts and sketch right. This question is about an ellipse but the formula looks so similar :)
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Re: Ho Ho... No
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2016, 02:33:44 pm »
+2
I got: (x - 2)^2 and (y - 1)^2 = 4
The domain [0,2]
the range [-1,3]

Your domain and range is slightly wrong here :)

The first thing I do is sub in the given end-values of t into the parametric equations (where x is domain and y is range).

t = [0, pi]

Firstly, sub t = 0 into both equations.

x = 2 - 4cos(0) = -2
y = 1 + 4sin(0) = 1

Then sub t = pi

x = 2 - 4cos(pi) = 6
y = 1 + 4sin(pi) = 1

Therefore, domain = [-2,6]
Range = [1,1]

We obviously notice that the range is wrong (as it is a circle not a parallel line).

This means that the max y value must be halfway between 0 and pi (as it is a circle).

Therefore sub pi/2

y = 1 + 4sin(Pi/2) = 5

Therefore range = [1,5]

You can always double check domain and range by graphing on the calculator. Does that make sense? :)

blacksanta62

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Re: Ho Ho... No
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2016, 02:43:01 pm »
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It makes more sense than the textbooks interpretation :P Thanks PB, I'll give it a try with another question and post my answer and if you could give it a try too :)
x = 3cos(2t)
y = 3sin(2t)
[0,pi]

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blacksanta62

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Re: Ho Ho... No
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2016, 02:47:44 pm »
0
If there is no number to take away or add to both sides should I just try to get sin and cos alone? so the first one would become x/3 = cos(2t) and second y/3 = sin(2t) and then square both?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2016, 02:49:27 pm by blacksanta62 »
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