English Advanced Question Thread

[Monica Lee]

are there any good related text that can be applied to AOS and MODC (people and landscape)

[conic curve]

are there any good related text that can be applied to AOS and MODC (people and landscape)

Try Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad. I think that would be a good related text but to be honest, I'm not actually sure

[jamonwindeyer]

are there any good related text that can be applied to AOS and MODC (people and landscape)

Maybe flick through our Module Marking and AoS Marking Threads to see what other people have used! It might give you some inspiration 

[Jakeybaby]

Forgive me if this is in the incorrect forum, being a SACE peasant - I don't understand your English subject layouts.

I have been given an oral for English Studies where a poem by either Gwen Harwood, Judith Wright or Oodgeroo Noonuccal needs to be analysed.
I have chosen Ad Orientem by Judith Wright

Spoiler

All night in hospital I law
with my intemperate lover, pain.
A sister, calm in her serene
indifferent charity, sat to pray
for me, as for all suffering men,
beside my bed. Darkness and fear
rose up between me and her prayer

eclipsing the rich world of love
in which I grew, and richer trust
of lives that with my life were nourished.
And still my violator thrust
hard, hard, into a throbbing wound.
Fast in that grip I felt all cherished
images of good dissolve.

A cock crowed, and the sister rose,
yawning, to raise the window blind--
a row of cypress, scalpel-clean,
crowning a near-by hill, incised
the first of morning. Clear between
each cypress and its neighbour glowed
a winecup space of light defined

by the dark trees. Those winecups brimmed
with a new day's untasted wine:
I drank, until my spirit leapt
high on the morning's tranquil crest
and drunken sang its hope, and blessed
all suffering and rejoicing men.
I slipped from pain's embrace, and slept.

Here is my oral speech, please keep in mind that I will have a presentation too, so if some of the references made seem out of place, I will have specific textual references in the presentation.

Spoiler

Initially, the audience is introduced to the painful experience of a female patient of a hospital, who seems to be struggling to cope with the situation which they have been placed into. The opening description of pain explains to the audience that pain is constantly with her, so much so that it knows her like a lover, preventing the woman from being able to live life as she would normally. The intemperate nature of pain enables to audience to understand the fact that although the pain is always with her, at some points the pain subdues which tends to show that the woman cherishes these moments where she is not affected tremendously by the pain. The nun who sat beside her bed praying was not unusual for this period of time, as nuns were registered nurses, but the use of the metaphor of death through the darkness and fear shows that death was coming for the woman, and there was no escaping the fact that eventually, her time would come.
To open the second stanza, Harwood uses hypotaxis to continue the woebegone situation of the patient, who seems to be diminishing as the text progresses. The first two lines of the second stanza implement personalisation, as death (which is portrayed as darkness and fear in the first stanza) seems to surround her life, overgrowing all that was good in her life. As the stanza progresses, it is seem that the female patient seems to reflect heavily on her life, especially loved ones. The ruminative nature of the text shows further that the despair in the womans life is heavily evident. Earlier in the text, it was said that pain was her “intemperate lover”,  but the unwanted actions described through sexual terminology provides the audience with the perception that pain is now raping her, the relationship has developed from pain being a lover into a rapist. To end the stanza, it is shown that the woman has been dragged down to the depths of despair, hopelessness and depression, all the good in her life is slowly being removed by pain.
Harwood now implements the idea of morning coming to show the audience that hope is still evident in the womans life, no matter what challenging scenarios she has faced. The fact that the sister has beside the womans bed for the entire evening period shows that something is terribly wrong with the woman, the sister would not normally stay with the patient for the night. This explains that the womans fears are evident and are truthful. The audience now begins to see that the woman is overjoyed to be able to see the morning light through  the window, showing that the patient, although she still has hope, she has already begun to recognise that the end is close. This line is where the title of the text is implemented, it is known that the sun rises in the East. The title of the text, “Ad Orientem” translates to “To The East”. Harwood uses imagery to remind the audience of the dire situation which the patient faces, reinforcing the fact that she is in a hospital, and that she is in a horrid state, but yet she is able to still find hope in such a calamitous circumstance.
The final stanza, this stanza reinforces the fact that the patient did not expect to see the dawn and morning light, she hopes for a new day with new experiences, which is shown through the symbolism of the untasted wine, emphasizing her strong mental attitude. As she drank the ‘untasted wine’, the hope which was once evident inside of her announces itself once more, giving the patient confidence in herself and her situation, although it seems unlikely for a recovery. At the lowest depths of the situation, she forgets about everyone else, but with hope, she is elevated, and is able to bless and rejoice over other people.

Would anyone of you English gods be able to have a quick glance over it? This assignment was given to us on the last day of term 2 and spent 5 minutes talking over it, and now it is due on Monday (the first day back...)

Thanks,
Jake

[studybuddy7777]

Hey Jakeybaby,

The correct forum is one titled English (Advanced) Essay Marking, but I am not that sure if it matters. Dont stress, a mod will let you know if its in the wrong place and/or move it.
English in NSW goes (from most to least 'academic')
English Extension 1 & 2
English Advanced
English Standard
English Studies (This is a different sort of English to the others, but Im not sure if that means it is less academic, it just doesnt count towards your HSC)

I know this isnt making any sense so ill stop here and I hope this helps
Ps SAs arent peasants just coz their at the bottom of aus lol

[conic curve]

Just curious but in the future, will there be discussion threads based in specific texts (e,g, "the tempest discussion thread" or "brave new world discussion thread")?

The reason why I think it would be great to have these sorts of things is because these specific text based threads can help students bounce ideas of each other (as well as discuss) about ideas and themes in certain texts (I find that this is a crucial skill in english). Furthermore we can make our own thesis statements and formulate our own paragraphs to show each other that we're going in the right direction

[danielan2016]

Hey I'm just wondering what technique matches this quote if you could help??

“it seems we may best be able to inhabit a place when we are not faced with the additional challenge of having to be there”.

Thanks

[jamonwindeyer]

Just curious but in the future, will there be discussion threads based in specific texts (e,g, "the tempest discussion thread" or "brave new world discussion thread")?

The reason why I think it would be great to have these sorts of things is because these specific text based threads can help students bounce ideas of each other (as well as discuss) about ideas and themes in certain texts (I find that this is a crucial skill in english). Furthermore we can make our own thesis statements and formulate our own paragraphs to show each other that we're going in the right direction

That's an interesting idea! I think there would simply be too many texts though, even if you just did the popular texts you'd need a good 50 plus threads! At the moment, not in the plans, but if you want to start something about one of you texts then go for it!! 

[jamonwindeyer]

Hey I'm just wondering what technique matches this quote if you could help??

“it seems we may best be able to inhabit a place when we are not faced with the additional challenge of having to be there”.

Thanks

Hey Daniel! To be honest, not much springs to mind, inclusive language? It seems like a bit of a pleonasm, using more words than necessary to express something, but that could just be the style of the composer.

Anyone else see anything here? 

[jamonwindeyer]

Forgive me if this is in the incorrect forum, being a SACE peasant - I don't understand your English subject layouts.

I have been given an oral for English Studies where a poem by either Gwen Harwood, Judith Wright or Oodgeroo Noonuccal needs to be analysed.
I have chosen Ad Orientem by Judith Wright

Spoiler

All night in hospital I law
with my intemperate lover, pain.
A sister, calm in her serene
indifferent charity, sat to pray
for me, as for all suffering men,
beside my bed. Darkness and fear
rose up between me and her prayer

eclipsing the rich world of love
in which I grew, and richer trust
of lives that with my life were nourished.
And still my violator thrust
hard, hard, into a throbbing wound.
Fast in that grip I felt all cherished
images of good dissolve.

A cock crowed, and the sister rose,
yawning, to raise the window blind--
a row of cypress, scalpel-clean,
crowning a near-by hill, incised
the first of morning. Clear between
each cypress and its neighbour glowed
a winecup space of light defined

by the dark trees. Those winecups brimmed
with a new day's untasted wine:
I drank, until my spirit leapt
high on the morning's tranquil crest
and drunken sang its hope, and blessed
all suffering and rejoicing men.
I slipped from pain's embrace, and slept.

Here is my oral speech, please keep in mind that I will have a presentation too, so if some of the references made seem out of place, I will have specific textual references in the presentation.

Spoiler

Initially, the audience is introduced to the painful experience of a female patient of a hospital, who seems to be struggling to cope with the situation which they have been placed into. The opening description of pain explains to the audience that pain is constantly with her, so much so that it knows her like a lover, preventing the woman from being able to live life as she would normally. The intemperate nature of pain enables to audience to understand the fact that although the pain is always with her, at some points the pain subdues which tends to show that the woman cherishes these moments where she is not affected tremendously by the pain. The nun who sat beside her bed praying was not unusual for this period of time, as nuns were registered nurses, but the use of the metaphor of death through the darkness and fear shows that death was coming for the woman, and there was no escaping the fact that eventually, her time would come.
To open the second stanza, Harwood uses hypotaxis to continue the woebegone situation of the patient, who seems to be diminishing as the text progresses. The first two lines of the second stanza implement personalisation, as death (which is portrayed as darkness and fear in the first stanza) seems to surround her life, overgrowing all that was good in her life. As the stanza progresses, it is seem that the female patient seems to reflect heavily on her life, especially loved ones. The ruminative nature of the text shows further that the despair in the womans life is heavily evident. Earlier in the text, it was said that pain was her “intemperate lover”,  but the unwanted actions described through sexual terminology provides the audience with the perception that pain is now raping her, the relationship has developed from pain being a lover into a rapist. To end the stanza, it is shown that the woman has been dragged down to the depths of despair, hopelessness and depression, all the good in her life is slowly being removed by pain.
Harwood now implements the idea of morning coming to show the audience that hope is still evident in the womans life, no matter what challenging scenarios she has faced. The fact that the sister has beside the womans bed for the entire evening period shows that something is terribly wrong with the woman, the sister would not normally stay with the patient for the night. This explains that the womans fears are evident and are truthful. The audience now begins to see that the woman is overjoyed to be able to see the morning light through  the window, showing that the patient, although she still has hope, she has already begun to recognise that the end is close. This line is where the title of the text is implemented, it is known that the sun rises in the East. The title of the text, “Ad Orientem” translates to “To The East”. Harwood uses imagery to remind the audience of the dire situation which the patient faces, reinforcing the fact that she is in a hospital, and that she is in a horrid state, but yet she is able to still find hope in such a calamitous circumstance.
The final stanza, this stanza reinforces the fact that the patient did not expect to see the dawn and morning light, she hopes for a new day with new experiences, which is shown through the symbolism of the untasted wine, emphasizing her strong mental attitude. As she drank the ‘untasted wine’, the hope which was once evident inside of her announces itself once more, giving the patient confidence in herself and her situation, although it seems unlikely for a recovery. At the lowest depths of the situation, she forgets about everyone else, but with hope, she is elevated, and is able to bless and rejoice over other people.

Would anyone of you English gods be able to have a quick glance over it? This assignment was given to us on the last day of term 2 and spent 5 minutes talking over it, and now it is due on Monday (the first day back...)

Thanks,
Jake

Haven't been forgotten Jake!! I'll look at this for you ASAP tomorrow! 

[jamonwindeyer]

I have been given an oral for English Studies where a poem by either Gwen Harwood, Judith Wright or Oodgeroo Noonuccal needs to be analysed. I have chosen Ad Orientem by Judith Wright  Here is my oral speech, please keep in mind that I will have a presentation too, so if some of the references made seem out of place, I will have specific textual references in the presentation. Would anyone of you English gods be able to have a quick glance over it? This assignment was given to us on the last day of term 2 and spent 5 minutes talking over it, and now it is due on Monday (the first day back...)
Thanks,
Jake

Hey Jake!! Definitely happy to give this a look, your presentation is attached in the spoiler with some comments spaced through! 

Spoiler

Quick note, do you have an introduction? I think having something to give the listener some orientation of the sorts of themes you will be discussing and the conclusions you are headings towards would be beneficial here, just like an essay 

Initially, the audience is introduced to the painful experience of a female patient of a hospital, who seems to be struggling to cope with the situation which they have been placed into. The opening description of pain explains to the audience that pain is constantly with her, so much so that it knows her like a lover, preventing the woman from being able to live life as she would normally. The intemperate nature of pain enables to audience to understand the fact that although the pain is always with her, at some points the pain subdues which tends to show that the woman cherishes these moments where she is not affected tremendously by the pain. The nun who sat beside her bed praying was not unusual for this period of time, as nuns were registered nurses, but the use of the metaphor of death through the darkness and fear shows that death was coming for the woman, and there was no escaping the fact that eventually, her time would come. Once you have the specific textual references in here this will be an effective paragraph, but I do think you are going into a bit too much detail about what is actually happening in the text (just a tad). More importantly, I'm looking for some greater concept or conclusion: WHY are we talking about this poem? What theme does this relate to? The impact of pain on the human psyche maybe? Not sure if it suits SACE and this task, but I would expect to see something a tad more conceptual.

To open the second stanza, Harwood uses hypotaxis to continue the woebegone situation of the patient, who seems to be diminishing as the text progresses. The first two lines of the second stanza implement personalisation, as death (which is portrayed as darkness and fear in the first stanza) seems to surround her life, overgrowing all that was good in her life. As the stanza progresses, it is seem that the female patient seems to reflect heavily on her life, especially loved ones. The ruminative nature of the text shows further that the despair in the womans life is heavily evident. Earlier in the text, it was said that pain was her “intemperate lover”,  but the unwanted actions described through sexual terminology provides the audience with the perception that pain is now raping her, the relationship has developed from pain being a lover into a rapist. To end the stanza, it is shown that the woman has been dragged down to the depths of despair, hopelessness and depression, all the good in her life is slowly being removed by pain. This paragraph is very heavily 'retell' focused, accentuated by the fact that you analyse the poem in chronological order (this isn't mandatory. I'm looking for less "this happened and this happened," and more of a focus on techniques, how is the audience's view influenced by the composers use of techniques?

Harwood now implements the idea of morning coming to show the audience that hope is still evident in the womans life, no matter what challenging scenarios she has faced. The fact that the sister has beside the womans bed for the entire evening period shows that something is terribly wrong with the woman, the sister would not normally stay with the patient for the night. This explains that the womans fears are evident and are truthful. The audience now begins to see that the woman is overjoyed to be able to see the morning light through  the window, showing that the patient, although she still has hope, she has already begun to recognise that the end is close. This line is where the title of the text is implemented, it is known that the sun rises in the East. The title of the text, “Ad Orientem” translates to “To The East”. Harwood uses imagery to remind the audience of the dire situation which the patient faces, reinforcing the fact that she is in a hospital, and that she is in a horrid state, but yet she is able to still find hope in such a calamitous circumstance. This last sentence is more like what I want to see. Harwood uses a technique to show us something, but your next step is to make that something more relevant to the audience!

The final stanza, this stanza reinforces the fact that the patient did not expect to see the dawn and morning light, she hopes for a new day with new experiences, which is shown through the symbolism of the untasted wine, emphasizing her strong mental attitude. As she drank the ‘untasted wine’, the hope which was once evident inside of her announces itself once more, giving the patient confidence in herself and her situation, although it seems unlikely for a recovery. At the lowest depths of the situation, she forgets about everyone else, but with hope, she is elevated, and is able to bless and rejoice over other people. This paragraph is really good for incorporating the audience, but again, I'm looking for more techniques, more analysis of WHY the composer has done certain things, what are they trying to show?

This is a good presentation Jake! Good ideas and explanations, do you have an intro and conclusion? Make sure that the audience is properly introduced to the ideas you'll be discussing and that these ideas are summarised effectively.

I'd have two main suggestions otherwise!

First, a more conceptual approach. Instead of talking about the new things we find about the characters, talk about themes! Talk about pain, talk about loss, talk about what the audience learns about these themes in general rather than just within the text. This will raise the sophistication a bit 

Second, a more analytical approach. This one is a little simpler, I'm just looking for more techniques and less retell. Remember, your audience has read your text, they don't need to be told what is going on at any particular moment. Shift your focus entirely to technique based analysis, what has Harwood done (TECHNIQUE) and what is Harwood trying to show us by doing it? EG -Harwood uses imagery to accentuate the horrific nature of death (more detail needed, but yeah). This will allow you a better audience connection and again, will raise that sophistication 

Of course, this is not a HSC task, so you should take these two quick bits of feedback with a massive grain of Pink Himalayan Salt, and let me know if you want any help implementing these changes 

[conic curve]

That's an interesting idea! I think there would simply be too many texts though, even if you just did the popular texts you'd need a good 50 plus threads! At the moment, not in the plans, but if you want to start something about one of you texts then go for it!! 

Yeah true, it does create a mass increase of threads. Maybe you could provide us an extra external link, like say for example we click on the "HSC forums child boards link" and that leads us to this (I have attached it below) link ("link a") and then we either click on link b  or c and whenever we are in that page, there should be an external link called "Text based discussion thread" and that should lead us into links such as "The tempest discussion thread" or "brave new world discussion thread" and then after that, we click on those links and we are finally in the discussion thread

I hope I did not confuse you there Jamon 

[ssarahj]

Hey Daniel! To be honest, not much springs to mind, inclusive language? It seems like a bit of a pleonasm, using more words than necessary to express something, but that could just be the style of the composer.

Anyone else see anything here? 

I guess it could also be a bit of an oxymoron/irony as the composer is talking about "inhabiting" a place without "having to be there". So then the composer seems to be talking a bit metaphorically about the difference or separation between being physically in a place and being emotionally/mentally in a place...

[Jakeybaby]

Hey Jake!! Definitely happy to give this a look, your presentation is attached in the spoiler with some comments spaced through! 

Spoiler

Quick note, do you have an introduction? I think having something to give the listener some orientation of the sorts of themes you will be discussing and the conclusions you are headings towards would be beneficial here, just like an essay 

Initially, the audience is introduced to the painful experience of a female patient of a hospital, who seems to be struggling to cope with the situation which they have been placed into. The opening description of pain explains to the audience that pain is constantly with her, so much so that it knows her like a lover, preventing the woman from being able to live life as she would normally. The intemperate nature of pain enables to audience to understand the fact that although the pain is always with her, at some points the pain subdues which tends to show that the woman cherishes these moments where she is not affected tremendously by the pain. The nun who sat beside her bed praying was not unusual for this period of time, as nuns were registered nurses, but the use of the metaphor of death through the darkness and fear shows that death was coming for the woman, and there was no escaping the fact that eventually, her time would come. Once you have the specific textual references in here this will be an effective paragraph, but I do think you are going into a bit too much detail about what is actually happening in the text (just a tad). More importantly, I'm looking for some greater concept or conclusion: WHY are we talking about this poem? What theme does this relate to? The impact of pain on the human psyche maybe? Not sure if it suits SACE and this task, but I would expect to see something a tad more conceptual.

To open the second stanza, Harwood uses hypotaxis to continue the woebegone situation of the patient, who seems to be diminishing as the text progresses. The first two lines of the second stanza implement personalisation, as death (which is portrayed as darkness and fear in the first stanza) seems to surround her life, overgrowing all that was good in her life. As the stanza progresses, it is seem that the female patient seems to reflect heavily on her life, especially loved ones. The ruminative nature of the text shows further that the despair in the womans life is heavily evident. Earlier in the text, it was said that pain was her “intemperate lover”,  but the unwanted actions described through sexual terminology provides the audience with the perception that pain is now raping her, the relationship has developed from pain being a lover into a rapist. To end the stanza, it is shown that the woman has been dragged down to the depths of despair, hopelessness and depression, all the good in her life is slowly being removed by pain. This paragraph is very heavily 'retell' focused, accentuated by the fact that you analyse the poem in chronological order (this isn't mandatory. I'm looking for less "this happened and this happened," and more of a focus on techniques, how is the audience's view influenced by the composers use of techniques?

Harwood now implements the idea of morning coming to show the audience that hope is still evident in the womans life, no matter what challenging scenarios she has faced. The fact that the sister has beside the womans bed for the entire evening period shows that something is terribly wrong with the woman, the sister would not normally stay with the patient for the night. This explains that the womans fears are evident and are truthful. The audience now begins to see that the woman is overjoyed to be able to see the morning light through  the window, showing that the patient, although she still has hope, she has already begun to recognise that the end is close. This line is where the title of the text is implemented, it is known that the sun rises in the East. The title of the text, “Ad Orientem” translates to “To The East”. Harwood uses imagery to remind the audience of the dire situation which the patient faces, reinforcing the fact that she is in a hospital, and that she is in a horrid state, but yet she is able to still find hope in such a calamitous circumstance. This last sentence is more like what I want to see. Harwood uses a technique to show us something, but your next step is to make that something more relevant to the audience!

The final stanza, this stanza reinforces the fact that the patient did not expect to see the dawn and morning light, she hopes for a new day with new experiences, which is shown through the symbolism of the untasted wine, emphasizing her strong mental attitude. As she drank the ‘untasted wine’, the hope which was once evident inside of her announces itself once more, giving the patient confidence in herself and her situation, although it seems unlikely for a recovery. At the lowest depths of the situation, she forgets about everyone else, but with hope, she is elevated, and is able to bless and rejoice over other people. This paragraph is really good for incorporating the audience, but again, I'm looking for more techniques, more analysis of WHY the composer has done certain things, what are they trying to show?

This is a good presentation Jake! Good ideas and explanations, do you have an intro and conclusion? Make sure that the audience is properly introduced to the ideas you'll be discussing and that these ideas are summarised effectively.

I'd have two main suggestions otherwise!

First, a more conceptual approach. Instead of talking about the new things we find about the characters, talk about themes! Talk about pain, talk about loss, talk about what the audience learns about these themes in general rather than just within the text. This will raise the sophistication a bit 

Second, a more analytical approach. This one is a little simpler, I'm just looking for more techniques and less retell. Remember, your audience has read your text, they don't need to be told what is going on at any particular moment. Shift your focus entirely to technique based analysis, what has Harwood done (TECHNIQUE) and what is Harwood trying to show us by doing it? EG -Harwood uses imagery to accentuate the horrific nature of death (more detail needed, but yeah). This will allow you a better audience connection and again, will raise that sophistication 

Of course, this is not a HSC task, so you should take these two quick bits of feedback with a massive grain of Pink Himalayan Salt, and let me know if you want any help implementing these changes 

Thankyou so much, I'm sure that your comments are extremely relevant to the SACE curriculum anyway, thanks for your feedback again.

[Aliceyyy98]

Hi! I have a bunch of questions for the three module, it would be great if someone could help me

Module A: to what extent do we have to compare the two texts? like do we have to integrate through whole discussion? and also can we discuss the two texts in two paragraphs, I feel combining would make it too lengthy

Module B: what to include in the introduction? I am doing Hamlet, do I have to mention the Elizabethan Context? my intro currently is way too short I think

Module C: same thing, how do we weave representation into our discussion?

Thanks heaps to whoever answers )