Education experts say school week could be cut, online lessons added

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Article here.

What are your thoughts on this? Some interesting excerpts from the article:

What are my thoughts?
1. 3 school days is a terrible idea
2. Online education is not the best
3. I don't think the gamification of classes is the best, nor would making rewards or level systems
....
1. 3 school days is way too short! There is so much to learn and 3 school days is not enough to learn it all.  There's history, music. science, maths etc. You'd have to cut short the curriculum or somehow skip on content.

2. There are many studies such as http://jolt.merlot.org/Vol11no2/Nguyen_0615.pdf and http://edwp.educ.msu.edu/green-and-write/2015/online-schools-deemed-ineffective-by-stanford-study/.  These studies deem online to be ineffective  Teaching cannot replace online education and nor should it. There is also the chance of distractions.   

Additionally, I would like to add that real life education teaches people how to handle situations, speak publicly and to interact with others.

3. Real life is not a game. Work is not a game, volunteering is not a game etc.  You don't always get rewards for "stepping" up a stage. You rewarded at the end of a shift or the end of a volunteering period or w/e. School somehow needs to prepare kids for adult life.

Albeit, I think that sort of idea  (along with online education), shelters kids from the reality of life.

[Aaron]

3. Real life is not a game. Work is not a game, volunteering is not a game etc.  You don't always get rewards for "stepping" up a stage. You rewarded at the end of a shift or the end of a volunteering period or w/e. School somehow needs to prepare kids for adult life.

I don't think you understand how difficult it actually is to engage kids in work (particularly 7-10). That is what HSC/VCE is for - to "prepare" them for the rigors of post-school (whether that be uni, tafe, employment, whatever). I would encourage you to consider this from a Junior/Middle Years perspective a bit more.

I trialled out some software with Year 7 IT while I was on placement, and you should have seen how focused they were on the activities I gave them. It gave them colourful badges, there was a leaderboard etc... Stuff like this you just don't see unless you've been on the other side. They were actually excited to complete each activity, because it gave them a badge. It might not mean much to us as adults, but to them, it means a lot.

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I would love to hear someone that has done or is doing Distance Ed, give their thoughts on online learning using Learning Management Systems such as Moodle for their VCE.

I haven't done the VCE online, but I did do a HSC subject online for a length of time and I did do most of one subject online.

I found it very unsatisfactory to say the least.

There's something about teaching in real life that I find really engaging. Whether it's the activities or the (not) so monotonous tone. Additionally, there's that extra motivation and role model that a teacher brings to it.

I found the online course also relatively "hard" to focus on as I got extremely distracted with things and it was really easy to put off. In real classes can't be put off or delayed (or you fall behind). Additionally, there's the lack of peers and whatnot that kind of make it more interesting and motivating.

[Aaron]

I haven't done the VCE online, but I did do a HSC subject online for a length of time and I did do most of one subject online.

I found it very unsatisfactory to say the least.

I haven't done a subject online, but I have heard nothing but terrible stories (so obviously everyone should take this with a grain of salt, given I don't have direct experience with online courses). You are absolutely right, face-to-face is so important.

I recall Jamon discussing the 'flipped classroom' model etc, they did this at Monash throughout my masters and I absolutely hated the idea. It felt like a cheap cost cutting measure, which essentially substituted lectures for us doing even more work at home. In the end, workshop leaders would just sit there and say 'well, what do you think'. I don't pay $1,000 a subject to query myself.

Like I said, I believe a balance is appropriate. I would really admire anyone who could successfully implement an online program in a primary/high school setting which achieved the same results as a physical school environment.

[S200]

Quote

I would love to hear someone that has done or is doing Distance Ed, give their thoughts on online learning using Learning Management Systems such as Moodle for their VCE.

The face-to-face element of schooling is so important. I can understand why higher education providers are offering fully online courses for adults who work and live busy lifestyles.. but for an adolescent who has absolutely no responsibility whatsoever.. it is quite unnecessary.

Think there can be a balance though (e.g. proper use of Compass as a learning portal etc)... but definitely should not replace traditional face-to-face learning.

I agree with miguel where he states that more schools should be built as opposed to doing these ridiculous 'shifts'. You should see the designs of new schools being built right now. Most are adopting the vertical model where it utilises every square metre by building up, instead of out. It's actually really interesting and will definitely change how we view school in terms of infrastructure.
Sorry Wales... But given my qualifications and interests in eLearning and so forth I will have to respectfully disagree. The power that technology has to enhance learning far outweighs the disadvantages. 'Technology in schools' is such a broad statement, I can't figure out whether you're just referring to the online learning mentioned in the article, or all types of tech that can be utilised in a schooling environment.

I'm not fully qualified to answer, not being a Distance Ed student, but I use an online portal for most of my school resources and more than half my classes are taught via Zoom. If we didn't have the technology that we do in the school, it would be chaos.
With our 1:1 laptop program, we can all access the classes needed, no hassle at all (other than the obvious "Oooops, I forgot to charge my Laptop" scenario). All the resources we need for the class are to be found on the cloud (CANVAS by Instructure).
If we didn't have our Laptops, nearly every class we would need a VC unit, or a teacher hired for that subject just for that Campus.
This would create tremendous cost.

Even in the classes that aren't on Zoom, tech is still a major help. From projectors, to e-whiteboards, everything...
It all combines to help the learning...

That said, I don't think that this same scenario would apply if the students only went to school for three days a week.
The typical teen requires tremendous amount of pushing and shoving to get the work done on time and handed in. Whether this is done by parents, or teacher, or both, is another discussion.
If the student is at home for two days a week, they aren't exposed to the school atmosphere, and the pestering of the teachers. If the parents are both working, well they aren't getting that push from them either. And an unmotivated teen with a four day weekend ?

[Aaron]

Quote

I'm not fully qualified to answer, not being a Distance Ed student, but I use an online portal for most of my school resources and more than half my classes are taught via Zoom. If we didn't have the technology that we do in the school, it would be chaos.
With our 1:1 laptop program, we can all access the classes needed, no hassle at all (other than the obvious "Oooops, I forgot to charge my Laptop" scenario). All the resources we need for the class are to be found on the cloud (CANVAS by Instructure).
If we didn't have our Laptops, nearly every class we would need a VC unit, or a teacher hired for that subject just for that Campus.
This would create tremendous cost.

Even in the classes that aren't on Zoom, tech is still a major help. From projectors, to e-whiteboards, everything...
It all combines to help the learning...

That said, I don't think that this same scenario would apply if the students only went to school for three days a week.
The typical teen requires tremendous amount of pushing and shoving to get the work done on time and handed in. Whether this is done by parents, or teacher, or both, is another discussion.
If the student is at home for two days a week, they aren't exposed to the school atmosphere, and the pestering of the teachers. If the parents are both working, well they aren't getting that push from them either. And an unmotivated teen with a four day weekend ?

Oh yeah. That makes sense given your school's context. One of the student teachers reported back to us when we finished up how your school did things. It was really interesting.

What do you think about that S200? Would you rather have it like that, or have someone there physically to guide you through content?

I won't say anything about your school here, it's totally up to you but I think it'd be interesting for people to hear how your school does things.

[S200]

Oh yeah. That makes sense given your school's context. One of the student teachers reported back to us when we finished up how your school did things. It was really interesting.

What do you think about that S200? Would you rather have it like that, or have someone there physically to guide you through content?

I won't say anything about your school here, it's totally up to you but I think it'd be interesting for people to hear how your school does things.

Thanks, Aaron
I'm not sure actually. It would be awesome to have a methods teacher on campus, but then also I think there's some personalities that are better viewed through a screen...
I think that if I had a decent Methods teacher on campus, it wouldn't matter if the other subject teachers were in Timbuktu!

[jamonwindeyer]

I recall Jamon discussing the 'flipped classroom' model etc, they did this at Monash throughout my masters and I absolutely hated the idea. It felt like a cheap cost cutting measure, which essentially substituted lectures for us doing even more work at home. In the end, workshop leaders would just sit there and say 'well, what do you think'. I don't pay $1,000 a subject to query myself.

Jeez, that's an example of it done awfully isn't it! I think in principle it works, but it relies on educators who know its purpose and who can use it properly has potential! I see it done quite well in schools around my area for Maths

[Aaron]

Jeez, that's an example of it done awfully isn't it! I think in principle it works, but it relies on educators who know its purpose and who can use it properly has potential! I see it done quite well in schools around my area for Maths

poorly doesn't begin to describe my experience

[Sine]

cut out the middle man - just swap all the lectures with khan academy 
Tutes and pracs can stay.

For me at least going to school and uni is has more social benefits that actual "learning", most of which can be done at home by yourself.

[S200]

cut out the middle man - just swap all the lectures with khan academy 

I actually learn't more off Khan Academy last night, than I have of my Methods teacher last week!
Admittedly, it was a 5 hour Khan-Binge, trying to get the 'World of Math' mission done in a day...

[Calebark]

Does anybody happen to have figures on the amount of Australian students with/out internet access at home?

I feel it's important to this.

[S200]

Does anybody happen to have figures on the amount of Australian students with/out internet access at home?

This Link may help...
Khan is def. the way forward!!

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Quick thoughts:

1.  Self-directed learning: works well for some, not others
I spent half of VCE overseas, with work sent to me online. It worked perfectly for me in an academic sense: I got to skip most of the classes and work teachers set that's irrelevant to the course requirements. I worked from the study design and past exams to decide what was important, and it worked really efficiently on the whole. Much faster! I was self-directed, intrinsically motivated, and taking control of my learning experience, and it worked way better than in-class learning.

For less motivated/mature students (did I just call my HS self motivated and mature?! she wasn't, I'm not tooting my own horn, but comparatively so ) - I really can't see it working.

2.  Real-life socialising is VITAL
In an era that's so online, school is the main place where we learn social skills... enough of life is already online that we don't need more of it online.  What actually makes us happy and connected, according to studies, is real face-to-face human connection and interaction, and that's really jeopardised - reducing that even more is extremely risky societally.

Result: not a fan of more online classes.

[S200]

I just saw this...



#PerfectSummary