Should religious have a say in the same sex debate?

[EEEEEEP]

https://theconversation.com/ethnic-religious-communities-may-be-the-no-campaigns-secret-weapon-in-same-sex-marriage-fight-82429
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/religious-leaders-reserve-the-right-to-call-homosexuality-a-sin/news-story/7cb99e1bbc4af12af58ccdd8b21627f2
- Religious blocs, consisting of conservative Jewish, Muslim and Christian leaders, have previously united to confront the UN over birth control strategies, and show their resistance to abortion and similar interventions.

- Interfaith meetings have taken place where religious leaders combined to confront government agencies on the same-sex marriage question, and even the very legitimacy of homosexuality.

http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Same_Sex_Marriage/SameSexMarriage/Submissions
-   Upon looking at some submissions I found evidence for the above statements..
o   https://imgur.com/a/T4B9m  - Proof of statements
Sikh – Says No


Jews – No


Greek orthodox -No


Apostolic church- NO


Islamic councils - NO (Zetland mosque, Islamic council of Qld)
“We share the concern of other religious groups that misinterpretation of such laws can trample upon religious freedom to criticise sexual preferences,”

“Homosexuality is considered a sin in Islam, however, it is also a sin to humiliate and insult people who belong to the LGBTQI ­community.”

**i know some of you might have differing opinions even if you identify with that religion **
...
8.5 million Christians, about 4.7 million secularists and non-believers, about 300,000 Buddhists, about 230,000 Muslims, 160,000 Hindus, and about 60,000 Jews. If 60% of the believing communities responded “No”, then same-sex marriage could fail.
...
My question to you...
- "should religious communities be able to influence or have a say  on the rights of same sex people?"

[Aaron]

Everyone should be able to express their own views on the matter freely (whether this be in support or against it), as long as they are respectful. The decision to vote 'yes' or 'no' should be carefully considered at an individual/personal level, rather than being persuaded or influenced by anybody else.

What I don't understand is how the matter affects anyone who isn't in a same-sex relationship. If you don't want to perform a same-sex marriage ceremony, don't. If you don't like the idea of a same-sex marriage, don't marry someone of the same sex. If your religious beliefs state that you should not support SSM, then make a decision and choose to support it or not (it still won't affect you, but ok). IMO it is nobody else's business apart from those who are involved.

Times have changed.

[PhoenixxFire]

Heeeellllll No Marriages already happen outside of faith one person's religion should not dictate how others live their lives.

EDIT: Given everyone is talking about freedom of religion etc. Just wanted to clarify, religious individuals should have just as much say as everyone else. I think its fine for religious communities to have a position but they should not be forcing that position on others eg funding ads, giving speeches etc.

Having said that I don't think ANYONE should have say on whether consenting adults should be allowed to get married except the individuals involved.

[fantasticbeasts3]

helloooo people.

before i say anything, not that this is totally necessary to what i'm about to say, but i'm a practicing catholic - and a proud one at that. my opinion on same sex marriage is not aligned with the Catholic Church, in that if i could vote (i can't because of age), i'd vote yes.

in a way, the Church has a responsibility to state their opinion on this subject because they administer marriages. of course, you don't have to get married in a church, but they were the sole administrator of marriages for a long time (or were they? a bit unsure). their stance has been marriage is only for a man and woman, and they continue to maintain that. the Church regards marriage as a sacrament, and therefore, something that is very sacred. because of this, they won't marry same sex couples because it doesn't align with their view of marriage.

as for other religions, they have their own opinions on same sex marriage, as they're other administrators of marriage. they may think of marriage of sacred, like christians. i can't tell for sure, because i haven't looked into it, but the idea of marriage as a sacred thing is probably commonly shared over these religions.

like aaron said, everyone has the right to an opinion. in saying that, for a solid 3 weeks or so, the priest at my local parish has been like "hey guys, remember to vote no in the marriage vote!!!!" and i can tell you for sure that people have been influenced by this. it's also important for them to remember that they don't have to perform marriage rites for same sex marriage... like if you don't want to, don't.

however, religions should respect the opinions of others because loads of people in the LGBTQI+ (is that what it is now? can't remember) community feel ostracised from the rest of society, thinking that people are so against them. and that's crap.

so yea. religions can say whatever they want to, but they should respect the opinions of others while saying what they want to say.

[katie,rinos]

Hey,
So, i'm a Christian but like fantasticbeasts if I could vote I would vote yes (theres a few different reasons and my opinion has definitely changed over the last few years).

Although, marriage has become more secular, it did originally begin with the church so I think the church should still have some say in this (even if only small). I believe that everybody (regardless of religion) should be able to have a say and vote for same-sex marriage and what they believe in. However, this should be in a respectful way where either opinion (yes or no) is not criticised for being wrong.

We were actually talking about this in my Bible class the other day, and while it was a respectful discussion we all knew our teacher was against SSM (but were given resources and allowed to form our own opinions). I think that people who are religious may want to influence our own opinions because they are so passionate about their beliefs/religion and the sacredness of marriage (which I also think is a part of all religions). However, I  believe that Christians (and other religions) should try to be more accepting of the LGBTQI+ community and that 'bible bashing' or criticising same-sex couples and their lifestlyes will never achieve anything positive.

Regardless of religion everybody should be able to come to their own decisions and should not try to be too influenced by everything around them. Whether it be religion, media, politics, or whatever else you hear about SSM, this decision should still be your choice.

[Bri MT]

I believe that religious individuals should be able to have a say just as much as any other individual, I don't believe that religions as institutions should.

[jockey99]

Yes, but no in a way that bullies the LGBT community.

[LifeisaConstantStruggle]

http://www.ucanews.com/story-archive/?post_name=/1987/08/01/lee-kuan-yew-again-warns-all-clergymen-to-keep-out-of-politics&post_id=35564

Here's an article about a speech given three decades ago, might be old but it's still very relevant in relation to the Australian political atmosphere today.

[EEEEEEP]

http://www.ucanews.com/story-archive/?post_name=/1987/08/01/lee-kuan-yew-again-warns-all-clergymen-to-keep-out-of-politics&post_id=35564
Here's an article about a speech given three decades ago, might be old but it's still very relevant in relation to the Australian political atmosphere today.

Wow. Thanks for the link . It's actually a great speech and a very compelling argument that he has there.

[heids]

Religious individuals should be allowed to give their opinion as much as anyone, whatever that opinion is.  You can't exclude people on the basis of their religion any more than you can on any other basis.

I may not agree with their logic, but we all have free choice in our votes, and that's a wonderful thing.  We all do what we think is the best for society.

[dankfrank420]

Of course they should be allowed to speak.

But if their argument can be summarized to "God said don't be gay so no" then they shouldn't really be taken seriously at all.

[vox nihili]

I agree with the vast majority here that it is perfectly appropriate for religious leaders to express their views and for people who practice a religion to express views about their religious belief.
Frankly, the idea that they shouldn't be allowed to is insane. We value free speech in this country, and that means accepting that some people will have views different to your own. Likewise, barring religious people from the debate would also infringe on the right to freedom of religion.

To be perfectly honest, I think religious leaders do themselves a disservice by loudly getting involved in this debate. They effectively ostracise the next generation by spouting views that are dramatically inconsistent with those of young people. In doing so, they live their own grave.
Some of the crap coming out of the Catholic Church is particularly grating. It's really hard to hear an organisation that presided over the abuse of children, covered it up and then sought to pay as little compensation as possible, talk about the immorality of gays marrying and the importance of protecting children from gay parents.


Personally, I don't believe that politicians shouldn't enforce their personal religious beliefs as law. This is a secular nation and our parliament does us an enormous disservice when it enacts laws in the name of religion (parliamentarians are a hell of s lot more devout than the average Australian,  and our laws reflect this).

[Atlantis]

Yes religious people should have the right to participate in the same sex mariage debate, just as anyone should.

Although It still doesn't stop the thought of how ridiculous it is that a group of people who are not affected much by SSM have such strong opinions on it and are helping to decide what happens to a minority group. It's such a strange concept to me. It's like, "This is not morally right to me, so hey, YOU can't do it."
Even though it's not affecting them??? They don't have to participate in any LGBTQ+ marriages and they have their right as a church to say no to marrying a couple if it's against their religion, but to say no in general because it offends them (and god?) that people want to be happy is absolutely insane to me.

[strawberries]

those who voted no, why?
(just wondering)

[peterpiper]

those who voted no, why?
(just wondering, not attacking or anything)

Haha with that passive smiley face you're probably not going to have anyone rushing to answer this. Just saying