Is it okay to criticise ANZAC (or any patriotic day) on its exact date?

[EEEEEEP]

Yet another person has copped it for criticizing ANZAC day... regardless of whether if you think the response was justified. Catherine Deveny.

Jasmine, Tarneen Onus-Williams and Scott Mcintyre... just to name a few. They officially became one of Australia’s most hated citizens for criticising one of Australia's almost religious like days (Australia and ANZAC day). The response from people from the left, right and centre was swift!

Catherine: She received abuse after that message. 

“I abhor Anzac Day and can’t wait til it’s over. I am so delighted to hear the chorus increasing every year saying ‘Anzac Day is bullshit. It’s a Trojan horse for racism, sexism, toxic masculinity, violence, homophobia and discrimination’.”

Jasmine: Oh....she got scared out of the nation.

Lest we forget.. manus...etc

Scott : His journalism career in Australia was basically dead and he had to move to Asia. 

remembering the summary execution, widespread rape and theft committed by these 'brave' Anzacs in Egypt, Palestine and Japan

"Heroism on command, senseless violence, all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name patriotism,"

Tarneen: Victorian premier said that she should step down as an executive member of Victoria’s Koorie Youth Council (KYC).

“All you fellas in your Australian flags should be ashamed of yourselves,”

People that have done it, have objected to what's happened in the past and want to shed light on injustice. On the other side, many people think that it's disrespectful and that it's discussion should be left for another day. Additionally, the people that were involved, lived in an era where social justice was not much paid attention to.. the social and historical context was very different.
...........
Q: Is it justified to criticise ANZAC day or any event that is very symbolic and important to people of that nation... ON the same day that it’s celebrated .
E.g. Independence Day for the US, Aus day , ANZAC day

PS, I'd be curious to hear the opinions of some some historians and people studying history as well 

*I realise that some people have very strong opinions about this, so lets be respectful  *

[Poet]

-snip-

Wow, not a topic I was expecting, but an interesting one. 

I completely understand the views that these people have, but that doesn't mean I have to tolerate the complete insensitivity they portray in revealing their opinions on a day that is meant to be honored and respected.
To be honest, I hate it when people criticise the celebrated day *on the day* - personally, that's somewhat of an affront to my patriotism and the respect I have for those who have gone before me.
When I celebrate Australia Day or ANZAC Day or any other damn holiday I want to be happy about or think about, I don't want to hear the horror stories or the shortfalls. On ANZAC Day especially, I don't want to hear about the incidences of corruption, rape, a history of homophobia, racism or sexism, all of which are rampant in basically any war you can point a stick at. I'm not there to remember the negatives - I'm there to remember my ancestors, the bravery of soldiers fighting a mindless war to protect our country, the heroes.
Why would we have a day of celebration for the bad stuff?

On the other hand, I believe it's good for us to reflect on the shortcomings and mistakes some of our soldiers made and vow to never do that again.
But blatantly insulting Australian tradition and pride on a public front, and most importantly on the day of the celebration or remembrance, is not the way to do it.
There's a difference between a respectful and careful message to address the issues faced and an aggressive and frustrated one. This is why these people have had such a difficult time - by cutting straight to the heart of the issue, they've wounded the Australian pride. So overall, I believe this problems should be faced, but not in such an aggressive or affronting way, nor should they be brought up on the day of the celebration.

Note: I didn't do history past year 10, so much of my knowledge in this area is quite shallow. However, this is the view of the wider public. Just because your opinion diverges somewhat does not give you the right to insult the population by basically implying that their ancestors were potentially rapists - especially on the very day that they are meant to be respected.

Apologies for the slight rant, I get pretty passionate about this stuff haha <3.

[PhoenixxFire]

I certainly don't think it's okay to insult ANZAC's on ANZAC day, and I don't really think they should be blamed around then either. I'm all for discussing current wars and why they shouldn't be happening on days around ANZAC day. Personally I don't think there's much point paying respect to the ANZAC's and then forgetting about it. Instead we should pay respect and then discuss how we stop it from happening again.

I haven't really payed much attention to specific comments against Australia day (except one I had to analyse for English) but I do feel that the reaction is extreme. We should be able to criticise current conflicts whilst still respecting those who fought for Australia in the past. We talked about ANZAC day a bit at school and one of my classmates literally got spoken over and could not finish what she was saying because other people were too busy interrupting her and denying what she was saying. And what she was saying wasn't anything to do with the ANZAC's - our teacher had said something along the lines of living every day to its fullest because other people died so we could live like this and she said something about how we couldn't do that every day because we'd just live in guilt, and that they were dead and we should be able to enjoy our lives. I don't agree with parts of what she said but she got yelled at and talked over for saying it and then ignored and rolled eyes when she tried to talk again which is ridiculously extreme.

Australia day is a whole separate issue and I have absolutely no qualms about it being insulted on the day. If the date was important in a positive way or there were people involved who deserved respect then I would have a problem with it, but it was just a day Australia was invaded, it has no significance to Australia as a federation.

I feel like I've explained my position really badly here haha but basically on the day no, insulting the ANZACs no, but I have no problems with comparing it to other wars and questioning why we're not stopping them.

[turinturambar]

Personally, I wouldn't do it, but it's not that hard to justify.  If you think your message sufficiently important, and if you think it will be listened to more on that day than any other, why wouldn't you?
(in my opinion the second point is the weak point here - it may be more likely to be heard on the day, but I'm not convinced it will be listened to).

[elysepopplewell]

My initial thought was "the right to protest theoretically means you have the right to protest when the exact thing you're protesting is occurring." My key example is Australia Day - I think the protests against celebration on the 26th of January are really pertinent in their timing and the effectiveness of the protests.

But the fundamental difference in celebrating ANZAC Day and Australia Day is that ANZAC Day is a day of mourning (and then proceeding to get very drunk...) for the majority. Whereas Australia Day is a day of mourning for the minority. Also the sentiment in each of the days - ANZAC Day, at least for the beginning, is about remembering lives lost (which is, unironically what Australia Day opponents would like to see happen on the 26th). Whereas Australia Day, for the majority, is patriotism and bbqs.

So, I guess my application of my initial thought doesn't really hold water. It's relevant, but as I hope I've shown I think it runs deeper.

But like, yes you can absolutely criticise whatever day you want on whatever day. Whether or not its a tactic you think works, or is worth it, is another issue.

[vox nihili]

One of the really great things about the hospital I'm placed at is that we have the PTSD ward. We had a discussion at one point with one of our patients about ANZAC day, and I thought what he said was very moving.

He expressed how frustrated he was that ANZAC day had become about a political discussion. He was frustrated that those from the Left wing had used it as an opportunity to highlight the injustice of war and an opportunity to decry this country's jingoism about war. Likewise, though, he was equally frustrated that those on the Right had deified the ANZACs and had tried to make it a "sacred" day. He felt as though those who make out like ANZAC day is some sort of Holy day had just as much to answer for about politicising the event as those on the Left did.

His view about what ANZAC day was all about was a fairly simple one—one that we hear quite often but few of us perhaps really get around. He viewed it as an opportunity to reflect on the fact that there are many people who, rightly or wrongly, in the service of their nation have lost their lives, ended scarred physically or mentally, or perhaps just risked all of these things.


My little summary of what he said doesn't really do justice to his words; he put it so much better than I have here. I just really liked that he also felt that those people who really pushed ANZAC day as something sacred that can't be touched were probably adding fuel to the fire. I think he felt as though it were a bit superficial and that they didn't really connect with the idea of what it was like to serve, but rather, just saw ANZAC day as a bit of a traditional value to defend.

To answer the original question though, I think it's perfectly reasonable to criticise ANZAC day. It may be rude and it may distract from the "real" purpose of the day, but I think it's inevitable when on one side you've got a whole lot of people trying to pump up ANZAC day as a national celebration of war. One example of that being the idea, floated by the Liberals (and later supported by Labor defence spokesperson and my local member [yay] Richard Marles) that we should commemorate those who turned back the boats. I personally think they should be acknowledged for their service, but the suggestion that this should form a monument in and of itself is patently absurd. When people raise ideas like this around ANZAC day, it's no wonder that some people interpret the day as being flawed, rather than the supporters of it being the problem. I disagree with them, but, I also think they're perfectly right to express their view. Any shrill denunciation of them as heathens who blasphemed the spirit of the ANZAC is just silly, to be honest.