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Author Topic: How is e's forced out?  (Read 1750 times)  Share 

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kenhung123

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How is e's forced out?
« on: September 11, 2010, 10:45:01 am »
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In batteries, the diagrams are very confusing. They are supposed to be forced out of the cell to an external circuit ad reach the cathode.
Are we just required to know the features of the batteries (in terms for efficiency, life time and electrolytes) and how to get the half equations from full equation and vice versa? Knowing the specific components of the batteries and how each part functions to make it work is very confusing!

sajib_mostofa

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Re: How is e's forced out?
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2010, 08:51:22 pm »
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I'm pretty sure all you need to know is the reactions that occur at the cathode/anode. I wouldn't worry about the diagrams. I would also be aware of the advantages/disadvantages of each type of cell.

taiga

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Re: How is e's forced out?
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2010, 08:53:15 pm »
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In batteries, the diagrams are very confusing. They are supposed to be forced out of the cell to an external circuit ad reach the cathode.
Are we just required to know the features of the batteries (in terms for efficiency, life time and electrolytes) and how to get the half equations from full equation and vice versa? Knowing the specific components of the batteries and how each part functions to make it work is very confusing!

you should be able to get half equations from full equations. life time, if they give you data, is assessable. Electrons can travel through any metal or conducting material (whether it be vapour, or graphite etc)
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physics

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Re: How is e's forced out?
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2010, 09:12:15 pm »
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electrons are forced out by simply letting the reaction undergo oxidation...at  the postive eletrode. because the flow of electron is always from anode to cathode.
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Mao

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Re: How is e's forced out?
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2010, 01:11:39 am »
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Electrons are 'forced' out because they want to flow from high to low chemical potential energy (electrons would rather stable chemical environments than unstable chemical environments). In this process, the change in chemical potential energy are carried by the electrons, and can be utilized in electric circuits.

Imagine a snow ball at the top of a hill. It will have the tendency to roll down the hill (electrons want to flow in a certain direction). It may take different paths, such as straight down, or bump into a few trees here and there (different electric circuits), but in the end it reaches the bottom of the hill (reduction reaction).
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kenhung123

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Re: How is e's forced out?
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2010, 10:08:10 am »
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Oh right. Thanks Mao

Martoman

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Re: How is e's forced out?
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2010, 04:35:04 pm »
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What I don't get is how two things react in a galvanic cell. They are a distance apart... yet somehow can sense the other one being there and thus oxidises to send its electron over the wire???
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kenhung123

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Re: How is e's forced out?
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2010, 05:05:02 pm »
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Its just the potential difference that attract e's as Mao said.

Mao

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Re: How is e's forced out?
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2010, 08:08:13 pm »
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For a typical galvanic cell, let's say Ag/Ag+ and Zn/Zn2+. Electrons will flow from the Zn half cell to the Ag half cell. The reaction is


Now, I create a new system with the same reaction. In this new system, I have a zinc rod immersed in Ag+ solution. I notice that the same reaction occurs, with silver leaving the solution and plating on the zinc rod, and the concentration of zinc in the solution increases. I also notice the solution gets warmer.

If we break it down into the two half equations:


You can see that the oxidation of zinc does not involve silver. Zinc in this case simply wants to donate electrons to become more 'stable'. Silver ions do not require zinc to undergo reduction, it simply wants to accept electrons to become more 'stable'. In fact, the thing about redox reactions are they always happen in two half equations, and do not require contact with the other counter-part. Remember that a reaction only requires contact on a molecular level if the reaction requires a collision. In this case, the reaction does not require collision between Zn and Ag+, it simply just needs electrons buzzing around (which can travel via a copper wire). Based on this type of reasoning, you can see how fuel cells operate as well, they simply split a combustion reaction (also redox) into two half equations, and force electrons travel from the fuel end to the oxygen end.

Now, back to galvanic cells. Right now, we have two disconnected cells (no salt bridge, no wires, no connection at all). We have a zinc half cell with Zn(s) wanting to give away electrons, but it cannot give electrons because they have nowhere to go (polarization in the zinc rod, accumulation of -ve charge). Same deal with the silver half cell, that if a reaction is to proceed, it'll cause the silver electrode to become +ve charged, thus polarization.

Now, we electrically connect the two electrodes. Zn still wants to give electrons, now the electrons have somewhere to go, thus they go towards the silver cell. Silver still wish to accept, now there is a source of electrons, reduction occurs and everyone's happy. Except now the solution is becoming polarized because of accumulation of aqueous ions. We now add a salt bridge, and voila, the two reactants are in separate places but still doing the same chemistry. The heat of reaction is carried by the electrons, which can be utilized by electric circuits to transform to useful things instead of heat.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2010, 11:02:41 pm by Mao »
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Martoman

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Re: How is e's forced out?
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2010, 09:21:35 pm »
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Thanks Mao-ey baby  :smitten:
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Mao

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Re: How is e's forced out?
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2010, 10:55:20 pm »
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Did that answer it?
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Blakhitman

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Re: How is e's forced out?
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2010, 10:57:54 pm »
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Did that answer it?


Wow...yes...thank you so much for such awesomeness...

Now I can teach my chem teacher. :D

Mao

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Re: How is e's forced out?
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2010, 11:03:12 pm »
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Did that answer it?


Wow...yes...thank you so much for such awesomeness...

Now I can teach my chem teacher. :D

I just updated it again, you probably want to take another read. :P
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m@tty

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Re: How is e's forced out?
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2010, 11:04:39 pm »
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Very nice Mao. =)
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Martoman

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Re: How is e's forced out?
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2010, 04:24:24 pm »
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You can see that the oxidation of zinc does not involve silver. Zinc in this case simply wants to donate electrons to become more 'stable'. Silver ions do not require zinc to undergo reduction, it simply wants to accept electrons to become more 'stable'.

Yeah this makes sense now.
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